Dan Pallotta Intro

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today on the servant leadership podcast we're thrilled to have Dan palato with us to share his thoughts on Innovation

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leadership and challenging the status quo in the non-profit sector Dan is a trailblazer in the world of philanthropy

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and social entrepreneurship he's known for creating the multi-day charitable event industry with events like the AIDS

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rides and breast cancer 3 days which have raised billions for critical causes Dan has revolutionize the way we think

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about charity and fundraising advocating for a more business-minded approach to nonprofit work under his leadership

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these events not only raised massive funds but also elevated awareness and engagement around important social

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issues Dan's Ted Talk the way we think about charity is dead wrong has inspired Millions to rethink their approach to

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giving and nonprofit management in addition to his work in philanthropy Dan is also an author speaker and advocate

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for social Innovation pushing for systemic changes that allow nonprofits to thrive his film uncharitable further

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explores these themes today Dan will share his insights on how Innovative thinking challenging traditional norms

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and servant leadership can drive success and create meaningful change Dan thank you so much for being here this is so

Welcome Dan Pallotta

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exciting to have you yeah thanks for having me Chris I would love for you to just share a little bit to our listeners

Dan's Life/Career Journey

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about how did you get here today I drove

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what's the journey been like this has been a crazy Journey well let's see um you mean like how did I get into like

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social change and that kind of thing yeah I mean your Journey's been crazy it's been crazy well I was born on the

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first day of John Kennedy's presidency so I'm a I'm a child of the 60s now there are some people who were teenagers

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of the 60s it's different to be a child of the 60s it meant when you were

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forming your world viiew that was being shaped by the words of John Kennedy and

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Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King talking about love and Justice in the same sentence young vibrant

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leaders um who you know had a new vision for the world and were saying things

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like the future is not a gift it is an achievement also though if you were a child of the 60s you didn't understand

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it but you were watching your parents watch Walter kronite every night report on the Vietnam War and bloodied American

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soldiers being carried onto helicopters and burned out Vietnamese Villages and you got this sense that the Human

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Condition was futility you got this sense that adults had given up that they didn't know how to control their own

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circumstances even the president of the United States couldn't figure out how to get out of this Quagmire and that

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was um yes it was tragic and all that but to a kid it was just boring like it was

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dull demoralizing and boring that that that we couldn't figure this out but if

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you were a child of the 60s you are also watching Apollo unfold right cuz Kennedy

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makes that speech in 1961 and we land on the moon in 1969 so your life from 0er to eight

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years old there are all kinds of missions going on whether this the aena

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testing docking uh uh Mission or you know Apollo 8 Apollo 7 Apollo 10 and

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then finally Apollo 11 watching all the docking Maneuvers and rendevu Maneuvers and landing on the moon and and so I I

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think it was the Confluence of those things that made me frustrated with the world want to make a difference in the

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big way that Kennedy's and Martin Luther King were but it had to be as big as going to the Moon it had to be as big as

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Apollo it couldn't be small it couldn't be a gesture it couldn't be tiny I think those are the things that that shaped me

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you know and then I I was in college Warner aard comes up with this idea of

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ending world hunger by the year 2000 it's the first time anybody has ever uttered the word end with respect to

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world hunger or eradicate you know up until then it was always just Aid right just help these poor people um and he

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creates this possibility that you could eradicate we could be the generation that eradicates world hunger and I was

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excited by that it was big like Apollo so I organized a bike ride across America at at Harvard 39 of us uh we

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spent a year organizing it and 39 of us rode our bikes 4,200 miles across the

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continental United States from Seattle Washington across Oregon and Idaho and

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Over the Rockies and the Continental Divide and across the Great Plains and we raised a bunch of money for Oxfam and

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we we were interviewed by Brian Gumble on the Today's Show and all kinds of local radio and television shows and

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when we got to New York we got to ride around sha stadium before the Mets game and they played Chariots of Fire and

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they put us on the Jumbotron and they gave us a stand Ovation and everyone was crying you know and it was powerful

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powerful powerful cuz you know I was a bit of a mama's boy you know I'd never been very far from home now here I am

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responsible for 38 other people and we don't have any cars we just have bikes right to get ourselves Across America

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and eat and sleep and all that stuff and you know at first you just want to quit you're like in you're in panic mode

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constant panic mode and to get through that that Journey you know you learn a lot and so then

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when I started losing friends to AIDS I thought Journeys pilgrimages that's what we need you know we need like sacred

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spiritual long difficult Journeys not 10 kilometer charity wathon but 7-Day bike

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rides across Alaska down the coast of California across Montana 3-Day Walk 60

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miles from Santa Barbara to Malibu not for athletes not for cyclists but for

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anyone and everyone who wants to become a Civic hero you know maybe your son is

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HIV positive and you're 70 years old and you're terrified of riding your bike down Pacific Coast Highway for you know

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whatever it is 600 miles for seven days and sleeping in a tent every night but there's nothing that's going to stop you

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and you know my dad when he was 65 rode in the Montana AIDS vaccine ride with me and crossed the Continental Divide my

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mom is a breast cancer survivor she and my two sisters walked 60 miles for three days in the Boston breast cancer 3day

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and and tens of thousands other people did those things and um and then we went out of

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business quickly you know why' we go out of business because we kept being dogged by you're paying people too much you're

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advertising too much you're spending too much your overheads too high yeah but we just netted netted more money more

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quickly than any events in American history for AIDS and breast cancer and suicide prevention so maybe it's kind of

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a good thing that we're doing um and I ended up writing a book about that called un charitable where I looked at

The Book/Movie - "UnCharitable"

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you know why why do we allow the for-profit sector all these freedoms to do all these things and then we put the

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nonprofit sector in prison and then we wonder why it isn't changing the world

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and and then I did a Ted Talk on that and and at last we've made a movie it came out last week uncharitable you can

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see it in theaters uh 35 theaters in the United States and Canada right now and

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then streaming early next year and it's exciting to see this message up on movie

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Marquees next to Barbie and Oppenheimer and you know click on the Landmark Theater in Cambridge and there it is you

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know you can buy seats to see uncharitable and have your mind bent about the way you used to think about

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charity and the way you want to think about it moving forward wow that's it's such a crazy

Background Behind "UnCharitable"

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story I mean even just the journey to to to get to the point where you even could write a book like uncharitable to get to

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a point where it could turn into a movie did people think you were crazy along the way when you said I'm going to turn this into a book yeah it's a funny thing

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people people think oh I want to write a book or I want to be a public speaker

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well you got to have something to talk talk about you got to have something to write about you have to have lived

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something you have to have had some Shakespearean tragedy happened to you in order for it to be interesting I

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remember my God bless him my friend Gary Stewart said I'm sorry this had to happen to you but it had to happen to

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someone in order for a book like this to get written you know and so so yeah I think when I told tough's University

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press when I wrote the book for them on charitable I told them I wanted to make a documentary movie out of it like Like

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An Inconvenient Truth I think they thought I was nuts because that just doesn't happen you know like the

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nonprofit sector has never had a movie about its issues and it's never thought about that and you know it was hard took

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us six years to make this movie two years were due to covid but you know a lot of times we just had to stop because

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we were out of money um and that delayed things but we so far we've raised a million eight in counting to make the

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movie and Market the movie and it's in theaters packed house in Chicago last

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night I want to see it in Boston with my mom and my husband and my kids and it was sold out I had to find a way to get

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seven seats for my family for my own movie uh we packed the Director's Guild

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Theater F to the rafters 430 people um at our Premiere last week and then it

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sold out at the Village East uh by Angelica and it's actually going to run

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for two weeks in New York now so um it's exciting I mean it it seems like it's

Reaction to Dan's TED Talk On Nonprofit Sector

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been a trend that you've kind of launched these things even the Ted Talk when when you first did the Ted Talk you

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probably had no idea how much that would blow up I I mean it's had so many millions of views it's one of the top

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TED Talks out there what was the reaction to that did you even think it could get this big well I had been to

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Ted in 2006 and 2007 and that before the talks were online so if you went to Ted

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about two months later you'd get a box full of DVDs of all the TED Talks that you had seen and this was only whatever

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15 years ago right 16 years ago and um I figured the best way not to get to do a

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TED Talk is to ask for one like don't ask wait for them to ask you so I waited

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2008 2009 2010 2011 nobody asked me 2012

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I said screw it I am sending Chris Anderson who runs Ted an email and I did and he to my surprise he said

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interestingly we've been talking about you but we're full this year so maybe next year what would you talk about and

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I told him and he said done 18 minutes and then I immediately regretted

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it now I got to do a TED talk in front of you know Bill Gates and Al Gore and Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon and I that

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audience is just packed with people with terrifying accompl M so Chris puts me

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last I'm the last head talk at the last time they do the conference in Long

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Beach and um so I had four days to psych myself out and think this is going to be

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the worst thing I've ever done and they had the most interesting TED Talks they had the woman who discovered the giant

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squid and she had highdefinition footage of this like 90 foot tall squid and they had these eight-year-old brothers who

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were like Bluegrass banjo prodigies and Amanda Palmer doing her street performance stuff and I thought oh a

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talk on the economics of the nonprofit sector is going to go over like a lead balloon I just let me go home but it

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didn't it struck a cord and um Chris told me the other night Chris Anderson

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said that talk was we used to rate talks most persuasive most inspiring most

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entertaining that talk was rated by um Ted viewers to be the most persuasive

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Ted Talk of all time time um it's still viewed about 7 800 times a day it's the

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16th most commented commented Ted Talk of all time and it opened up as a

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possibility the idea that we should change the way we think about giving instead of asking about overhead and the

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CEO's salary ask about what good is being done what problem is trying to be

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solved and by when because that's what you as a donor want right you really want problem solved do you really care

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what the CEO gets paid or what the overhead is if we ended hunger in America if we ended homelessness in

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America would you really say gee we paid the CEO too much when we find a cure for

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breast cancer no but that's what we've been trained to focus on and that's what's keeping us from solving

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problems so so really the big that's the biggest takeaway right when people watch the movie you want them to take away

Changing The Way People Think About Giving

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that changing how they view Don view engaging nonprofits right yes I

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want them to change the way they think about giving stop asking

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um what would be the adjective Petty questions about what are your expenses

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stop asking Petty questions about what do you pay your CEO I want to know what

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you pay your CEO before I give hm that's funny do you ask what how much Tim Cook

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is being paid before you buy an iPhone do you ask how much Jeff Bezos made this month before you place your Amazon order

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do you ask how much is Mark Zuckerberg making before you post on Facebook no um

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so stop asking Petty questions and start asking big questions what problem do you want to

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solve by when and how can I help what do you need to solve that problem what do you need to invest in do you need a

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better CEO who's going to cost you three times more because you're pulling them from the for-profit sector and they're

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making eight times more in the for-profit sector do you need to invest a lot more in fundraising so that you

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can bring in a lot more donors so that you can grow what problem do you want to solve and how can I help because that's

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what you're really interested in nobody wants to you know die and have them etch on their grave we kept charity overhead

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low you know on my gravestone we kept CEO salaries low oh wow what a what a

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great thing to commit your life to you know well and it's all about getting the best people around the table right

Getting The Best People and Evangelizing The Message

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that's what that's one of the key Concepts that you talk about yeah and as Chris Anderson said in the movie he said

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um you know if you want to solve problems you kind of have to get the best people and if you want to get the

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best people you kind of have to pay them right um yeah so and the other thing I

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want people when they leave the movie to to be thinking is who else can I get to come see this movie because that's how

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we're going to change things is by evangelizing it you don't you know you don't the movie will say it for you

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people I would give a speech and people would the next day would feel like how can I tell my board members what Dan

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just said well you can't because I do this 900 times a year and you don't so you you're going to trip all over

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yourself the movie Let the movie do the talking for you it's there that's why we made it it's a powerful voice let people

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see it the there are so many people who have gotten behind this movie not just as spokespeople but who are in the movie

The People Included In The Movie

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you know you talked about Chris Anderson's in the movie I know Scott Harrison's in the movie obviously you're in it there's so many people how how did

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you get so many people to be in the movie you know you live long enough and

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you work hard enough and you get to meet people and if you if you're doing something really special really

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important once in a while you you know call in that Capital so you know I asked

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Chris Anderson if he would be in it I asked Darren Walker the head of the Ford Foundation I asked Scott Harrison the

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head of Charity water Edward Norton after I did the Ted Talk he reached out to me so I knew him so I asked if he

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would be in the movie Tom Tierney who runs the bridg span group Mark turc who runs the nature conservancy Dory mcarter

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who runs the YMCA of Greater Chicago first female African American Milton

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little who runs the United Way of Greater Atlanta um uh Rudy Espinosa who

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um uh runs an organization in La so yeah you know just just ask ask ask ask it's

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funny I see kids today and they're like afraid to ask for help they're afraid you know they're embarrass to ask people

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love to be asked you know nobody's going to give away their last dime to you nobody's going to do something they

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don't want to do worst that can happen is they'll say no big deal well I think

Servant Leadership Perspective

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I think that's so important we talk often on this podcast about servant leadership and and I know you have a

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quote out there about servant leadership being one of the most powerful forces for change in the world um I don't know

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if you know that or not but you have a quote out there about that and and how do you see how do you see that being

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true just servant leadership in this role in the nonprofit space as donors where do you see servant leadership

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playing out how is it important for this uncharitable message well here's how I think about

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leadership and service in philanthropy philanthropy comes from the

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uh uh the the Latin I think it is yeah f

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anthropos um which means love of humanity right it doesn't mean you gave

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away a billion dollars that's not the definition of philanthropy it's love of humanity so you don't have to be a

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billionaire to be a philanthropist you don't have to give any money to charity to be a

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philanthropist and I look at Steve Jobs and the contribution he

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made to forwarding humanity and the things that the Apple watch will do an electroc cardiogram in 30 seconds if if

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if you know your mother Falls it'll call 911 there an SOS satellite mechanism on

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it the things that the iPhone done has done to improve the lives of the Blind and those um who can't hear I mean

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that's just amazing and he had the courage to say hey how about a phone with no physical keyboard and have Steve

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Balmer laugh at him or you know I mean you look at the difference that a Muhammad Ali made in the insiration that

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he was you look at the difference that an Neil Armstrong made so a lot of times I'll get emails from from students young

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people and they'll say I wan to um go into nonprofit that's how they say it

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almost like it's a slang I want to go into nonprofit they don't start by saying I want to do something about

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Hunger I want to do something about cancer they I want to go into nonprofit well that's just a tax status that's all

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that is why would you decide on the tax status under which you want to work before you decide what you're

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impassioned about what you're good about and as Ken Robinson used to say where the intersection of those two things is

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because you can make I mean the guy who developed the refrigerated Box Car the difference that that made in the world

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for reducing food born illness you know if there a kid in the hospital you watch them playing with Legos right or just

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the way Legos animate the imaginations of children that makes a a massive difference in the world so and what Elon

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Musk is doing right now you know and he isn't building massive Yachts for himself or building a mansion with all

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of his millions of dollars you know he's like sleeps in one room apartments and on the factory floor this guy is just

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driven by that dream that's all servant leadership so what advice would you give

Advice On How To Be A Servant Leader - Follow Your Passion

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to people who want to become more servant servant

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oriented well follow your dream follow your passion and you can't help but be

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of service I am imagine what a tragedy it

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would have been if Steve Jobs got manipulated into going to work for a nonprofit organization because they

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convinced him that was the only way you could make a difference or if Muhammad Ali went and became the you know the CEO

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of a soup kitchen because that you know he wanted to make a difference you make a difference in all kinds of different

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ways and the biggest way you make a difference is by being uniquely you you know I mean the difference Bruce

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Springstein has made in people's lives the way that people relate to him his relationship with their father the the

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way that they relate to sometimes feeling like a loser and needing to hold on to the notion of the Land of Hope and

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Dreams and you know that takes guts to you know there he tells this wonderful story

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about his hair used to be really long and he and his father used to really fight all the time and his father would

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tell him stop playing that goddamn guitar and and his he would stay out of the house a lot even in the winter and

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he came home one night and his father was sitting up waiting for him in the kitchen and uh he comes into the kitchen

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and his father says what do you think you're doing with yourself and Springstein says the worst

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part about it was I could never explain it to him how does Bruce Springstein tell his

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father I'm G to become Bruce Springsteen when that has never existed

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right that takes enormous courage and is of enormous service so what is the thing

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that lights you up what is the thing that nobody's going to be able to stop you from doing because it's so exciting

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to you do that thing and do it well and innovate and take Humanity the next

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level in that domain you know there's all this talk called corporate social responsibility I'm not a big fan of it

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as currently defined you know I would much prefer that you don't make products

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that suck okay I would much prefer that you don't leave me on hold for 45

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minutes and then are unable to answer my question that would be really great corporate social responsibility and then

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worry about charitable giving after you've got all that straightened out um

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too much virtue signal signaling you know yeah I mean you you've worked with

Relationship With Steven Gyllenhaal

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so many of these leaders uh one that comes to my mind is Steven Gyllenhaal right you you and him have

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been on this journey together of making this movie how how did you guys even get connected and how did it really turn

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from from book which seemed like a crazy journey in and of itself into movie

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which probably seemed like an even more impossible feat well I knew I wanted to

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make a movie out of it from the from the get-go because I saw An Inconvenient Truth and and and you know my book came

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out right after that and I thought this book would lend itself to a documentary movie like that as well Stephen and I

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met when we both lived in in La through friends um about 25 years ago and it's

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funny you know because everybody in Hollywood is you know talks a big game

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and Stephen would say my my children are becoming movie stars and you're like yeah right because you never heard of

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Maggie Gyllenhaal or Jake Gyllenhaal 25 years you never heard of them they were whatever 12 years old

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um and uh and they do in fact become movie stars so you know Stephen and I

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are in touch now and then and he's making this movie called inudo about uh

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epigenetics and um the effects of trauma in the womb and he asked me if I could

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help him Market it and I said I will help you Market that if you will take a look at my proposal for this documentary

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movie and help me out with that and he really loved the idea of it and got more invested in it and I don't know after

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six months or eight months he said all right I'll direct it and you know it's

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Stephen and I are great friends and it's hard right because I mean you got two

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strong willed people two very creative minds and what's most important to me is

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that the movie be persuasive that when you walk out of that theater you are persuaded what's most important to

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Stephen is that it be emotional that it be like a movie that it have tension and drama in it otherwise people aren't

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going to go see it if it's just an academic piece so there's this battle always going on between the two of us

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and me you know I was on the debate team in high school trying to teach Stephen like there's a difference between an

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assertion and an argument like an assertion is you shouldn't ask about

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overhead well you can say that all day long and you're not going to convince anybody that's just an assertion but if

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you get under the hood and you tell them did do you know that when you ask about overhead it just tells you about costs

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and it doesn't tell you anything about the actual impact the organization is having then they go oh I never knew that

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all right now you're beginning to persuade them so the movie is a wonderful combination of emotion and

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persuasion and argument and that's why Stephen insists that we call it a movie not a documentary because it really is a

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movie I mean if you look at the Marquee in the Village East right now it's right there next to Barbie and oppen

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timer I mean it it really is powerful I it is funny the difference between

Motivation For Seeing "UnCharitable"

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documentary movie because when I watched it we talked we talked about it we a bunch of us went and saw one of the just

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we got an early link for it right and we went and watched it and it was unbelievably powerful when people asked

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us about it it was hard to explain because it's it had both the emotion and it had the story behind it so I think

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you guys pulled it off in such an amazing way oh I'm glad you feel that way Chris yeah I'm I'm excited for our

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audience to hear to to hear about what the future will hold after people see it

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and I'm excited for them to see it um when when people are thinking about am I the right person to go see it how do you

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convince them that they're the right person to go see the movie you like having your mind blown do you want to make the world a better place do you

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like a really emotional movie do you like learning new things if you don't don't go see this

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movie but if you want to go see this movie you can go to unch Char itable movie uncharitable

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docomo there's a way but yeah it's just uh you know if you

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care about purpose if you care about Humanity if you care about meaning uh if

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you want to be inspired if you want to have a sense of hope instead of a sense of dread which is so much of what we get

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in this world these days uncharitable will do it for you it'll give you a great sense of hope because it lays out

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ideas that could really have us change the world now what do we mean by change the world that phrase gets

What Does It Mean To "Change The World"?

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turned around tossed around all the time change the world change the world change the world well what I mean by it is

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create a as Buckminster Fuller said create a world that works for everyone

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with no one and nothing left out so what I mean is imagine if you lived in a

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world where there just wasn't homelessness anymore where we found a cure for breast cancer where suicide was

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a very very rare thing where everybody had a home and a good home where children weren't hungry anywhere anymore

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where we took care of all of it so that we all could begin to pursue our creative dreams and our imagination and

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our our our deep spiritual human potential instead of worrying about basic needs because none of us wants to

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live in a world where we see people suffering and starving and hungry and cold in the winter without none of us

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wants to see that and when we do see it it darkens our world as well so let's

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get that all cleaned up and the and the movie lays out a hopeful path for doing

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that yeah obviously you've been doing this for the better part of a decade what's what's one of the biggest or I've

Important Take-A-Ways About Leadership

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been doing this for the better part of a century a excuse my language a century a decade movie at least the

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movie movie I guess in concept you've been thinking about the movie for more than that too but the whole uncharitable

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the whole uncharitable stuff what's one of the biggest leadership takeaways that you personally have have taken away from

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this not the uncharitable theme but you as Dan what's one of the biggest leadership takeaways well persistence is is really

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important um and intention is really important you know my kids are 15 years old and like a lot of 15 they're worried

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about how their life is going to turn out and and what I tell my kids is look you want your life to turn out right

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like you you you want to make the most of this thing called life don't you yes

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that's enough if you've got that intention just Follow the yellow brick road if you've got that intention just

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keep your eyes and ears open to um New Opportunities bad things that happen to

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you and what new Direction they send you in that you didn't necessarily want to go in they're all leading you somewhere

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that I promise you will be magical um if you you want your life to turn out

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and by have your life turn out I mean have it at the end of it all have had a

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sense of great meaning and purpose not a nonprofit meaning it doesn't have to be a nonprofit but a great sense of meaning

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and purpose you know I'm sure if Beethoven could see what became of his life he would have a great sense of

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meaning and purpose you know yeah I love it well I want want to ask you 10 rapid

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

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fire questions to to finish us off here so answer these however however you feel

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um whatever comes to your mind first okay uh there's no right or wrong answer but who's the first person you think of

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when I say servant leadership Abraham Lincoln okay what's the five words that

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most describe you um anxious um

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uh impassioned organized serious and

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Melancholy I like those um favorite author of Book I'd have to say Richard Bach

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Illusions favorite movie oh man oh there's so many let's go with

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Apollo 11 which is this amazing highdefinition footage that was

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retrieved about five years ago of all the Apollo missions it'll it'll be fun when I ask

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future people what their favorite movie is too when they say

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uncharitable uh favorite food um Santarpio's Pizza my husband

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Jimmy's chocolate bread pudding my mother's um Italian emergency

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meal okay favorite thing to do in your free time uh write

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music wow what kind of Music Folk you know like I'm a big fan of um of Steve

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Earl of Mary goer of John Prim Springsteen Dylan Neil Young those folks

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yeah and you can go to dilot music or you can go on iTunes and I got albums

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and stuff you can listen to if you'd like wow I'll have to check that out I didn't know that surprising fact about

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you um surprising fact about me I always wanted to be an NHL

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goalie wow who's who's your team uh Boston Bruins okay yeah um I'm a Red

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Wings fan so Detroit Red Wings yeah you've been beating us for those were the days back when I was a kid you're

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even way younger than me but there were only like eight teams and then they added like the New York Islanders and

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you know they started adding other teams but um yeah the the red rings were one

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of the originals yep favorite place you've been oh my God my favorite place I've

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been my favorite place I've been oh I love so many

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places um

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probably I don't know I love Venice Venice is really

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beautiful Venice is magical it's like Disneyland but

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real okay okay place you want to visit that you haven't gone to before the moon oh wow that might be possible here

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soon yeah um best last question best best advice you've ever

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gotten it may not happen when you want it to but when it does it will be right

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on time wow that is that is a great way to finish so if people want to find out

How to Find Info On Dan and The Movie, UnCharitable

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more about uncharitable what's the best thing that they can do go to uncharitable

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docomo to Dan pilot.com wow this been awesome Dan thanks so much

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for all your time yeah Chris thanks for doing this it's a really great thing that you have and uh I wish you all the

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luck in the world and keep at it thank you for listening to this episode of the servant leadership podcast if you

Closing

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enjoyed what you heard please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below don't forget to subscribe and hit the

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notification Bell to never miss an update be sure to check out the servant leadership podcast. for more updates and