Steve Carter's Intro

0:07
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast, we're joined by Steve Carter, nationally recognized pastor, author, and one of

0:14
the most respected communicators in the church today. Steve has preached on some of the largest stages in the country,

0:19
led in high-profile ministry roles, and now serves as lead pastor of Christ Church of Oakbrook in the Chicago

0:26
suburbs. Steve is best known for his ability to help leaders grow in both character and communication, guiding

0:33
them to lead from a place of integrity, emotional honesty, and spiritual depth. In this episode, he shares what it looks

0:40
like to stay grounded, lead through pain, and build the kind of life that can withstand both pressure and success.

Welcome Steve Carter

0:46
Steve, thank you so much for being on the Servant Leadership Podcast. Chris, you know, uh I'm a big fan of you. we

0:53
had the privilege to kind of partner in some exciting projects over the years and it's just been so fun to watch um

1:00
the reach of this podcast and all that all that you are doing with your life. It's really really inspiring. So, thanks

1:05
for having me. I I've been talking about getting you on here since I even started before the podcast launched, you know,

1:11
and I was first recording episodes. So, this is super special that that you're willing and able to do this. Your

Steve's Journey

1:16
journey here has been unconventional. Uh, and now you are helping lead a major

1:22
church in the western suburbs. Talk about your journey to even get into pastoring. Yeah, I was a film major and

1:28
so I've always been captured by the idea of telling stories. My dad went to USC for cinematography and so we talked a

1:36
lot about film growing up. He was a business guy, but um I I found myself on

1:42
my 19th birthday getting to baptize my dad. And so he came to faith and he felt

1:48
as if God kind of shared to him, hey, sell everything and moved to Grand Rapids. And we lived in Southern

1:54
California. Um, so it was kind of like this weird wild move. Um, but Grand

1:59
Rapids was where he was from. And so we went back there and I went with my

2:04
parents and I got connected to a church um that was just starting. and this

2:10
communicator who was preaching I felt was as if he was like storyboarding his

2:16
talks and it was almost like a screenwriter and the way that he was unpacking the scripture it just made so

2:23
much sense and I remember just going I want to do that and that just kind of

2:28
began this little journey and um was in California at a church was in Chicago in

2:34
a church uh been traveling teaching over the years um at different churches and writing books. And then I had this

2:42
opportunity to come to Christ Church of Oakbrook. And it's kind of for me um

2:47
been one of the healthiest churches in Chicagoland. They've had two pastors in 60 years. My predecessor Dan Meyer is

2:54
just um as good as they come. And he had been a real friend and mentor over the

3:00
years for me personally. And so um when this opportunity came, it just uh it

3:05
felt like ordained. It just felt even with the role like this this feels like

3:11
home. So So when you started getting into this and and you heard people

Being Around Great Leaders

3:16
preach in a different way and you started moving church to church and kind of continuing to to grow in your skills.

3:23
Was it intimidating ever being around such great leaders? Oh for sure. For

3:28
sure. I mean you know everybody communicates few connect. And the great

3:33
leaders, and that's a John Maxwell quote, but it's the great leaders know how to connect to their audience or

3:40
connect to their staff or pull out the best in them or call them in and call them up. Ah, and you could get up there

3:47
and transfer an idea. It's different speaking from a transformed place. And

3:53
every place I went, I learned something new about leadership, about

4:00
communication. And for me, I think it's been

4:06
one of the blessings is most of the time I've always been the

4:12
second or third best communicator on a team. And so it's it's been pretty like

4:17
humbling in that way, but also really uh gift because it has allowed me to be

4:22
around better communicators and iron sharpens iron. And I think sometimes in

4:28
leadership people can get threatened by that. um they'd rather go to a place where they can be the number one person.

4:34
But there is something about being on a team that pushes you um challenges you, inspires you, helps you get better. And

4:41
I've just been fortunate enough to have a bunch of mentors who have helped me get to where I am today. Yeah. Well, I

Staying A Humble Servant Leader

4:47
mean, for years, I sat under your teaching and you were my pastor. Uh and and I saw both behind the scenes and uh

4:55
and from just sitting in the pews how amazing you were as a servant leader. One of the things that always struck me

5:02
differently about you was that you felt like one of the people who were there

5:07
and you were just showing up to learn and soak it in and really uh be with people. How do you think as people get

5:14
success like in your role now you're leading a really large church in Chicago? How do people stay humble

5:21
servant leaders versus just lead really well? That's great. You know, when I was

5:27
at Willow, I remember watching Bill Hibl's a bunch of us went after a

5:34
meeting into the restroom. We were washing our hands and there was water on the the countertop and I watched him

5:41
grab a towel and clean the t the the countertop. And I'd never seen a leader

5:47
of an organization do that. It just kind of like that's why we have facilities people. And I just remember thinking,

5:52
man, that's that's really really important. It it it brought me back to when I was an intern and wanting to go

6:00
into ministry. I part of my job for the church to to help me with this

6:05
internship and pay me was I had to do facilities. And one day my senior pastor

6:11
walked in and saw me cleaning a restroom and he said, "If you can do this, you'll

6:16
be ready for ministry and you'll be ready for leadership. If you can do this with a an actual joyful spirit and heart

6:24
and servant heart, you will be great at leadership and ministry. And I I think I

6:30
just took that and part as you gain success and you have opportunities. This

Spiritual Formation Practices

6:36
is where you have to have spiritual formation practices that really remind you who you are. Um so once every two

6:44
weeks I walk the grounds of this place. um just to pick up trash outside.

6:51
Um because I saw mentors do that. Um but it's also you get higher up, it's easy

6:58
for people to say, "You don't need to do that. There's something more important for you." And I don't need to do it. But

7:04
for my soul, I need to do it for my ego. I need to do it for keeping those roots

7:12
close to the soil. That's where the idea of humility comes from is like the the the humus, the the the dirt, the ground,

7:18
the soil to keep that as fertile as possible. I need to do stuff like that. And so for me, it's it's been really

7:26
intentional to again, not to just do this to serve, but to actually protect

7:34
me from me. And and and that's um that's been a helpful thing. Sometimes when I'm

7:40
at conferences and I'm speaking, the easiest thing is just to get on a plane and fly home or you can help break down

7:46
um with the tech crew and break down the tables and the chairs. And those are little things um but they they form us

7:55
to not see ourselves as more important than we actually are. And I'm just one part of the body. I I can I can open my

8:02
mouth and talk and uh preach and speak and lead, but it doesn't make me any

8:08
better than the hands or the eyes or the heart. It's it's just I'm just one part

8:13
of the body. So, um learning to not take myself so seriously. So, as people are

Importance Of Craft And Character

8:19
listening, we often encourage people to step up and be big, do big things, be better leaders, grow in their leadership

8:25
capabilities. And I mean, for years, we've heard like everyone has influence, right? That was something that that we

8:31
used to talk about a lot. Uh there's that happy balance. How do you teach people both to empower them to really

8:38
lead and step up and also to serve? That's such a hard concept for people to grasp. Yeah. Well, two words have been

8:45
really really important for me and it's craft and character and it comes from

8:51
this first Peter 4 where where Paul's telling Timothy his mentee said hey you

8:56
know physical training is of some value but godliness is useful in all things and then he says don't let anybody look

9:02
down on you because you're young but set an example and he lists off five characteristics and then he says do not

9:08
neglect your gift um remember when the elders like called that gift devote

9:13
yourself the the public reading of scripture and teaching and preaching. And then he said, "Give yourself fully

9:19
to it so everyone may see your progress." So in a a handful of verses, he's talking about character leading our

9:28
craft. He puts that first. Dave Chappelle uh signs a $50 million

9:34
contract with Comedy Central. It's episode 5, season 3. He says a joke and

9:39
someone laughs a little too long and he just walks off set and supposedly he calls his driver, ends up having him

9:46
take him to the airport. He flies to South Africa, goes to a monastery supposedly and then he finds himself 6

9:52
months later on Oprah Winfreyy's couch and Oprah just asks him, "Why'd you do

9:57
it, Dave?" And I'll never forget, I remember being in a hotel and just flipping channels and seeing him on

10:02
Oprah and just hopped this interview and he said, he started crying and he just

10:08
said because success can take you places that character cannot sustain you.

10:13
And and for me, I want to do and maximize and achieve and see incredible

10:21
kingdom impact. But as Jesus once said, what good is it

10:26
to gain the whole world world and lose your soul or forfeit your soul? So I

10:32
think for me it's how am I growing in my craft, in my leadership, in my

10:37
communication. But I better be putting the same kind of emphasis, if not even more so, on my

10:45
character because you might get into boardrooms um that are,

10:51
you know, difficult issues, things where you can kind of fudge the truth here or

10:57
there. Um, and if you don't have that character set up, uh, it

11:03
it it's just going to it's going to take you down. And we've seen this in every arena, politics, athletics, marketplace.

11:10
And I think part of that servant leadership is recognizing, man, I can only give away what um I've poured in or

11:18
allowed to be poured into me. And so that's been really, really important for me over the years. Well, and you even

Steve's Podcast - Craft and Character

11:24
started a podcast around that, right? talk about the podcast and how that came to be. Yeah. So, basically it was it's

11:30
all centered around communication. So, helping people get better at the craft. But then I interview different thought

11:36
leaders or communicators and then the last 20 minutes we'll ask them, hey,

11:42
help me understand how you are focusing time on your character. What does that

11:48
look like? And it's amazing to hear the varying answers from a John Mark comr to

11:56
you know a Scott Mcnite to um you know terth Leech. I mean there's all these various people who have different ways

12:03
at which God is teaching them and shaping them so that they can finish the

12:09
race well. And that's that's the hope of every leader. Nobody sets out to go you know what I want to do is just blow up

12:14
my life in my mid-40s. But it happens, you know, and that's that's where we have to be really really as as my mentor

12:22
um Mike Vulka once said, you have to be deliberately intentional. And I I said to him, isn't that the same word twice?

12:28
And he's like, exactly, exactly. So So on the character front, one of the books

The Thing Beneath The Thing - Steve's Book

12:33
you wrote was The Thing Beneath the Thing. And and that speaks a lot to character and just personal development.

12:40
talk about how that book came to be and what what you learned through the process of writing it. Then also what

12:47
you think are good takeaways from the book. Yeah. So thing beneath the thing all was grounded out of a simple

12:54
question. Why do we do what we do? Which actually the apostle Paul who writes the

13:00
majority of the New Testament shares in Romans 7:15. He says I do not understand

13:05
what I do. The good I want to do I just don't do but the thing I hate I do. And every time I forget to do something that

13:10
my wife asks me, that's the verse I quote, "Babe, I'm sorry. I do not understand what I do." And and she'll

13:16
typically just say, "We'll figure it out. Why Why didn't you pick the cleaners up?" Or, "Why did you forget this?" Or, "Why didn't you finish this

13:23
task?" And that just kind of led me to start to wonder, wow, there is a lot of

13:31
train wrecks that happen in leadership and there's a lot of collateral damage

13:36
that can often happen. Why? Why do we do what we do? Cuz nobody sets out one day and goes, "Man, here's

13:43
the day that I'm going to decimate my character. Here's the day that I'm going to train wreck every relationship." But it happens. And so what I realized was

13:50
in the city of Chicago, there are potholes. Nobody told me about them. I

Potholes And Sinkholes

13:56
came from Southern California. They told me about deep dish pizza and the Cubs and Wrigley and Soldierfield, all that.

14:02
Nobody told me about pot uh potholes. And and I remember driving over a

14:08
pothole once and getting a flat tire and I had heard that there was a three-digit number 311 and that you could report a

14:15
pothole and if you reported the pothole and the city of Chicago had not fixed it in due time, they would pay for the

14:20
damages to your vehicle. So I call this number, this woman picks up and she shares uh a little bit like, "Oh, I'm

14:28
sorry, Steve. You're the first one uh to report this pothole." And so I was the teacher in me was like, "You have your

14:33
own three-digit number? how many potholes do you all fill in? And she's like, "Well, the Chicago Tribune just did a story on us in the last 100 days.

14:40
You want to know how many?" And we go back and forth and she finally tells me 130,000 potholes in a 100 day. And if

14:47
you look up, if you Google right now the city of Chicago pothole tracker, they actually track their work on their city

14:54
website. So when they come up to a pothole, it's caused by inclement

15:00
weather. Water freezes the asphalt's not like our sweatpants. it creates this and

15:05
they typically will see that this happens. They add some asphalt and they move on to the the next one. But

15:11
sometimes there's something else happening underneath the surface. It could be a leaky sewage pipe or erosion.

15:18
And if they don't deal with that pothole correctly, that pothole will become a sinkhole. And this has happened in the

15:23
city of Chicago. It's happened in pretty much every state and every country. And and it's millions of dollars of damage.

15:29
And the truth is just being human and being a leader working with broken and beautiful people. We are a collection of

15:36
potholes. And every single day somebody gets close and drives over one of those

15:43
potholes. And that's a wound that we have. And often times when someone gets

15:48
close to that pothole, what ends up happening is all this energy races through our body and it has to go

15:54
somewhere. And so the thing beneath the thing is really trying to prevent our potholes from becoming sinkholes, but

16:00
also helping us become more aware why we do what we do. And thing is an acronym. And so the T is triggers. You're first

T.H.I.N.G. Acronym

16:07
going to get triggered. Someone's going to come over that pothole. And this the trigger is the setup that sets us off.

16:12
And that's typically going to lead us one of four places. To a hideout, which is the H, which is the metaphorical

16:18
places we go to escape, to soothe, to help us get regulated. And that could be

16:24
work, it could be food, it could be something socially more unacceptable. Um, but it's a myriad of thing. And

16:32
every one of us is an addict in some capacity. The eye is insecurity. Sometimes someone gets close to that

16:38
trigger and we're reminded of a lie that someone spoke over us. You're not a good

16:44
leader. You've never been a leader. Who Who do you think you are? Your your brother would never mess up like this.

16:50
Your sister would never do this. And all of a sudden that insecurity has us

16:55
powered down. Um, for some of us when we get triggered, we don't go to a hideout or insecurity. We go to a narrative and

17:02
we create false stories about another person and it's just gossip. It's just like Plato theology where we begin to

17:07
shape and form someone or a group of people and say this is who they are and we get other people to buy into it. And

17:15
what I've come to realize is throughout the scriptures is the only way to heal

17:20
those potholes so that they don't become sinkles to actually become someone who is whole, holy, and spiritually healthy

17:27
is we got to allow grace into those wounds. And for me, um, Dallas Willard

17:34
once said that grace is opposed to earning but never opposed to effort. And it takes effort. Takes effort to sit

17:41
with the pain. It takes effort to to get curious of why we do what we do and to

17:47
kind of play it back and go, "Wow, I this wasn't really about that staff person. This was actually about

17:53
something that happened in my childhood. This wasn't really about my wife. This was about something that happened at

17:58
work." And and beginning to be aware of that so that the good we want to do, we

18:04
can actually do. Yeah. that some people might look at you and think you're so

Dealing With Change - Steve's Book: Grieve, Breathe, Receive

18:10
young and for the roles and positions you've had from a leadership standpoint,

18:15
uh it was just easy. I mean, you must be an amazing leader cuz from early on in

18:21
your 20s and your 30s, like you you just led really big things. And I think this is such an interesting concept because

18:28
there's so many challenges that people don't see behind the scenes. Um, and that's one of those the things that that

18:35
you kind of talk about. You also have a book um called Grieve, Breathe, and Receive and and it kind of continues

18:42
that thinking. How did that come about? What what pains were there and why why

18:47
is that book so important for people? Yeah. Well, I think many of us don't know how to grieve. And honestly, I knew

18:54
how to achieve. I didn't know how to grieve. And much of the success that I

19:00
had experienced early on in in ministry um actually gave me a reason not to

19:07
grieve it. I I was winning over here. Why would I want to stop and deal with this? But again, it if I'm going to have

19:14
my character lead the way, you have to make time for that. But I would say

19:19
grieve, breathe, receive came out of um a season of loss. And I actually went

19:25
through um a profound loss. It was my dream job and uh some stuff came out

19:30
about a mentor and it just led to one thing after another. Um but I ended up resigning and in the resignation I

19:38
didn't know what to do next. But I felt like the Lord say to me a few weeks

19:44
after some of the dust had settled after the the resignation, go to the desert

19:49
and wait for instructions. And I I I didn't think it was literal. I just thought it was like metaphorical, like

19:55
don't rush to the next thing. But the next morning, I told my wife what I had sensed the Lord saying and and she just

20:02
teared up and she said, "I've been sensing the same thing. I want to go home." And she's from Arizona. And so we moved to Arizona. And

20:10
Eugene Peterson, this great thought leader, pastor, would often say that all

20:16
theology is grounded and rooted in topography. meaning your city or your

20:22
your your area has something to teach you about how you understand God. And this is what the desert mothers and

20:28
fathers understood, you know, centuries ago that the desert, the the deserted

20:35
place has something to teach us and remind us about grief and about healing and about redemption. And it's that in

20:42
between reality from um Egypt where their oppression was and the promised land. And so learning from the desert

20:51
mothers and fathers, going to the desert, fortifying

20:57
character, learning how to grieve. Um, it just it just changed me. If the thing

21:02
beneath the thing was the question, why do we do what we do? Grieve, breathe, receive. The question is, what do you do

21:09
when life does what it does when it shocks you? And as a leader, um, you're

21:14
going to be surprised. You're going to be shocked. you're you're gonna have stuff that shows up on your doorstep

21:20
that you did not want to see happen and it hurts and and how do we deal with

21:27
that? And so this was my best chance of unpacking what the desert taught me to

21:33
help anybody else who might find themselves kind of in a season of change. And literally my definition for

21:40
grief is just honoring what comes up when change shows up. And you could have good change, you know, like if if your

21:46
kids are going off to college and you're an empty neester, that's change. It

21:51
could be good change. Your kids are turning 27 and so they're off your insurance. That's good change. You know

21:57
what I mean? And so, so I think it's it's it's not just all bad, but learning to have good grief and learning to

22:04
actually have a good process for how we handle grief. Um because especially with high-capacity leaders, it's way way way

22:11
more easy to achieve than to grieve. Well, it is easy to just ignore what else is going on. It's really easy to

Breathe And Receive

22:18
focus on the success and the drive. What does the breathe and the receive look like for for a really good leader? Yeah.

22:25
So, you remember when we were kids and you're riding your bike or your skateboard and you you kind of fall in

22:31
the asphalt and all of a sudden like you skin your knee, it's bleeding and you come in and your mom sees it and she

22:38
pulls out that ugly brown bottle of hydrogen peroxide and pours it on your knee and it gets all white and and

22:45
you clean it off, put a band-aid over it and you're back out riding your bike or skateboarding and and the next day they

22:51
do it again. hydrogen peroxide, put the band-aid on, and you keep doing that till it heals. And I think sometimes for

22:59
high-capacity leaders, we think, "Oh man, do I have to like spend 9 hours in

23:04
my grief? Do I have to like what do I do?" And what I learned in that breathe and that receive was to actually just

23:13
just spend some 10 minutes with my grief just to almost like have a moment of just all right, this happened. And some

23:21
of it looked like forgiveness. Um, some of it looked like me learning how to forgive. Um, some of it looked like just

23:29
me kind of saying, "Oh man, I miss I miss I miss those people or I miss that situation or I miss um the opportunities

23:37
I had." And you have to sit with that. Um, you can't, as you said, and I think it's a great word, not ignore it. You've

23:43
got to face it. And then the receive is actually beginning to experience the

23:50
surprise of Sunday. And in kind of a a biblical context, uh what we know is

23:56
Holy Weekend, Good Friday. Um Jesus was perfect. He was holy. He was

24:03
amazing. He got what he didn't deserve. Yeah. And if he got what he didn't

24:09
deserve, then all of us are going to get what we don't deserve. And what ends up

24:14
happening is we find ourselves in grief and then scholars will talk about Silent
24:19
Saturday, which is kind of like the desert. It's just trying to get through grief. And typically, we're either going

24:25
to waste the weight, we're going to hate the weight, or we can learn to win the weight and lean in and see what this has

24:30
to teach us to prepare us for the surprise of Sunday. Those first disciples had no idea Jesus was going to

24:36
resurrect. And so when we do the good character work, we actually are

24:42
preparing ourselves for the surprise of Sunday. And you know, I release, grieve,

24:47
breathe, receive, and I didn't know that this job was on the on the even the even

24:52
an opportunity. Um, obviously God did, but um to to be able to have the

24:59
surprise of this opportunity has made the desert feel profoundly worth it and

25:04
makes me actually believe Romans 8:28, you know, God does work all things together for the good of those who

25:10
believe. Um, even when you feel like you're in the desert, even when you feel like you have to go through your own version of Good Friday or Egypt, um,

25:17
he's still working on your behalf. So, don't give up, leaders. Don't give up. H. So, you've talked a lot over the

High Character Leaders

25:26
years about character and the importance of being a high character leader. Uh,

25:31
that means a lot of different things to people. Well, one, how do you spot leaders? How do you decide, do they

25:38
actually have high character or are they a person of character? Uh, and what steps do you encourage people to take in

25:45
order to build better character or fortify their character? As you've talked about, the original concept of

25:50
the word character was that you had been marked. There was a distinct almost

25:57
branding or you were in some object had been engraved with something. Um and

26:04
then it became over time what are the distinctive marks of a person their

26:10
ethical moral um mental decisions that actually have built this character this

26:17
person to who they are uh today. My grandfather is buried at West Point and

26:25
a 100 plus years ago there was a prayer that was introduced at West Point. Every cadet memorized this prayer for over a

26:33
hundred years. It's known as the cadet's prayer. It's it's so stunning.

26:39
But in that it says, "May we choose the harder right over the lesser wrong. May

26:46
we live above the common level of life." And and there's all of these phrases in

26:51
that prayer that I realize, oh, the heart right.

26:57
Um, do we choose that? As a leader, I'm constantly watching. Uh, does someone

27:04
downplay or diminish their spouse or another staff person to try to make

27:10
themselves look better? Do they exaggerate? Um, do they just in the

27:17
midst of difficult issues go more self-preservation

27:22
or um, do they actually lead with a sense of vulnerability and not just lead

27:28
with a faux vulnerability as Chuck Dro says, but the kind of vulnerability that says I'm going to do something about it.

27:34
You know, it's one thing to say I I'm an addict. It's another thing to go to AA, you know, and so what I don't expect

27:40
people to be perfect. I just want to make sure that are they aware of their blind spots and what are they doing

27:45
about that? Whether that's surrounding themselves with teammates who are

27:51
masters at their blind spots or if they have a coach that is helping them

27:56
actually get better in those areas. And so you have to be observant as a leader.

28:01
Um, I'm constantly both a talent scout, a coach, but I'm looking with just great

28:09
intent to see um how someone chooses to respond um when they think no one's

28:16
watching. Yeah. It one of the things that that I've been thinking about lately is this concept of leaders and

Choosing The Best Opportunities

28:24
yourself included uh get a lot of interesting opportunities. And one of

28:30
one of the things that I've seen identify great leaders versus really good leaders is great leaders figure out

28:35
a way to leave behind some of the really good opportunities that come their way uh and wait for the best opportunities

28:42
or the great things that they feel called to do. How have you seen that play out? And is that something that is actually real or is that just like a

28:50
thought? I I I think it is real. Okay. And I think it's a really great thought.

28:56
I think the curiosity that you have with that question

29:02
showcases that it's not often demonstrated. Yeah. And and sometimes that is, you know, I think one way to

29:08
define poverty is a lack of options. Um when you have fewer and fewer options,

29:15
um sometimes the pressure feels like I just got to take this or I just got to do this. But when you have kind of the

29:21
space to actually be able to be in touch with your desire, to name your desire.

29:26
Um, in 2021, I wrote a journal. I wrote in my journal the the kind of dream I

29:33
have if I was to be a lead pastor, what I would like. I just started rattling

29:38
all this stuff off. I found it a month after I stepped into this job. And it's

29:44
like uncanny how similar like 96%

29:49
of it is like spoton. And I said things like I don't want to follow a founder. I want to follow someone who followed a

29:56
founder. I I wanted like there were certain pieces I deliberately spoke in. And there were many great opportunities

30:04
that came my way. They just weren't the right opportunities. And that's part of the harder right. They would have been a

30:10
right choice. I just don't think they would have been the best choice. And that waiting game is hard. Um because

30:18
you you keep wondering like am I am I going to am I going to have the opportunity? Is God going to open the door? Is this is this going to be it?

30:24
But Acts 15 the greatest theological discussion of the day and they come to

30:30
their decision and when they're asked about they said it just seemed good to the spirit in us. M and I think you have

30:36
to be so in tune to that intuitive spirit that's within us as well as our

30:44
longings and desires. And when you can actually go through a healthy clearness

30:49
committee with friends who ask you great questions and you can discern it together, um it just helps you realize,

30:57
oh, this is the opportunity. Um, that's not saying the other opportunities aren't good ones. It's just not the

31:03
right one for me and the unique offense or unique leadership style or capacity that I have. Yeah. Well, with that,

Engaging In The Mentoring Process - 4 Steps

31:10
you've you've talked about there's been different mentors and people speak into your life. How do you encourage people to engage in the mentorship process or

31:18
to be mentored? Like what are the steps to actually get that great sounding board advice where then you have people

31:24
you can talk to about is this a good thing for me or is this a great thing for me? Yeah. Well, I I love again in that 1 Timothy 4 passage, he says, "Be

31:31
so devoted to your gift that everyone sees your progress." When I get into my 50s, I want to be a better communicator

31:37
than I am in my 40s. When I get into my 60s, I want to be a wildly better leader than I was in my 50s. When I get into my

31:43
70s, I still hope they're letting me preach. Um, and I want to be better because there's more wisdom. But that

31:49
only can happen is if you allow and give permission to people to speak into your life. And I don't believe in just one

31:57
mentor. I believe more um as it's been said before, a constellation of mentors.

32:03
And I I typically will have five at a time. I budget money towards it. I

32:09
budget time towards it. And I'm not afraid to be rejected. And I've been rejected by a lot of people. I'm like,

32:15
"Hey, I'd love to learn from you around finance. I'd love to learn from you around leadership. I'd love to learn

32:21
from you around communication." And some people are like, "Hey, I I just don't have the time." That's okay. It's not

32:27
personal, but I I am only responsible for me making the ask.

32:34
Second thing I would say is when you ask a mentor or ask someone to mentor you,

32:40
be uber clear. What are you looking for? Because sometimes they could just perceive like, "Oh man, this person's

32:45
going to want all of this time." I typically will say, "Hey, I would love one 90minute conversation

32:52
for once a month for the next 6 months. I'll bring all my questions around communication or just leadership or

33:00
organizational leadership. This is just you're an expert in this area and I

33:05
think if I had that time with you over 6 months, um I'll I'll pay for whatever

33:11
meal you want. I'll pay for whatever drink you like whatever you wherever we'll feel comfortable. I'll come to you

33:16
or we can do it via Zoom, but then I show up with my questions. What it does

33:21
is it gives you a time frame so it doesn't feel like this person's committed forever because high-capacity

33:28
incredible leaders, they don't know what the next two years are going to look like. And so by putting that on and

33:35
being clear about what I want, it gives them a chance to understand my intentions. And then that typically

33:41
helps them go discern for themselves if this is something they want to do or not do. The other thing I would say is

33:50
always be grateful. Always be grateful. And and you don't always have to shoot

33:55
for the Fortune 100 CEOs or leaders. Start with people that are in your con

34:02
that kind of your sphere of influence. People that you respect. Maybe they might be a seasoned employee in the

34:08
marketplace. It might be a a friend of a family member. Um, but begin to practice

34:14
asking great questions around a specific topic and whether on your in your notes

34:20
app on your phone or in your journal, whenever a question comes up around that

34:26
topic, write it down so that you when you get to meet with a mentor, you already have a catalog of great

34:33
questions. And the better your questions are, because all a question is is a quest to learn, a quest to grow, a quest

34:41
to be curious. Uh the better your questions are, the better the learning will be. Yeah, it it's so interesting on

Choosing Specific Areas For Mentoring

34:48
both of those points. on your first thing about finding mentors. Uh I got given the same advice maybe by the same

34:54
person uh of write down every area of your life that you care about and now

34:59
think through who's the best person at just that thing and only talk to them about that thing. Don't talk to them about other stuff. So if you want to be

35:06
a great dad, find the best dad ever and just take them out and ask them questions about being a dad, right? And so that that's been such a helpful

35:13
construct for me to think through the mentors in my life and who I want to surround myself with. Uh on on the flip

Saying "Yes" To Mentoring Others

35:20
side, sometimes it's hard when being asked like a person in your position, let's say in in leaders who are

35:26
listening to this just thinking, gosh, I just don't have capacity. What happens when somebody asks you, "Hey, Steve, can

35:32
you help me? Can you mentor me?" Cuz if you said yes to everyone that's asking you for help, you wouldn't actually have

35:38
time to do anything. So, how do you how do you balance that? Well, I know that's

35:43
a tough question. Yeah. Well, so again, this is a muscle that we have to work

35:48
out in my mind. And when I've experienced the mentoring that I have

35:54
had and I am only where I am because of, you know, God's kindness and the people

36:00
that have poured into me and given me opportunities that I didn't deserve. Well, I have a chance to pay that forward. And the question now is, will I

36:07
will I make margin in my schedule for some young punk like that guy was in 18

36:15
asking all these dumb questions that I thought were the most important questions, but someone was kind and

36:21
patient and safe and consistent for me and that that helped me. So, I always

36:26
forget if it's Arthur Brooks or David Brooks. Um, but one of them talks about

36:31
you actually live longer when you are pouring into other people.

36:37
Um, and and that doesn't just have to be something you do in your 60s and your

36:42
70s. That could always start when you're in your 20s and you're pouring into high school students or college students or

36:50
you're in your 30s and you're pouring into just a younger marketplace leader

36:56
or someone in your 40s pouring into some someone in their 30s that is just having their first kids and starting out. I

37:03
think the more that we build that muscle, the more we start to look for it. And here's here's the the the truth

37:10
is when you have those kinds of relationships where you've poured into, you're actually not only just expanding

37:16
your influence because now I have communicators that I've been able to pour into that are preaching all over

37:24
our country. My influence isn't just here. It's now shaping all of these

37:30
different communities. My name's never mentioned and I I don't want it to be, but I I almost as like a proud dad, I'm

37:37
like I love watching that woman or that man just speak and preach and see the

37:43
kingdom advance. The other piece about it too that I think is is really really beautiful is when you do this, you also

37:52
get younger too. So, you live longer, but you get younger because all of a sudden you start to realize, "Wow,

37:58
that's how Gen Z thinks." That's fascinating. I I'm so connected how Gen

38:05
Xers or boomers think, "Oh, wow. That's how millennials think." And not to shame

38:11
or put shade on that, but to lead with curiosity and to really help. Um, you're

38:17
going to get younger emotionally and mentally. Um, and I think it's going to allow you to connect with not just your

38:24
generation, but with multiple generations. Yeah. One of the things that I I think is unique to you, and I'm

Listen To Learn

38:30
wondering if this is just something that comes natural or something that you've learned, but sitting in meetings with you, having just seen you in so many

38:37
different circumstances, you listen really well. Uh, and you don't listen to

38:43
respond with a thought that's in your head. You listen with with the thought of learning. Uh, and so often I think

38:50
I'll sit in a conversation and I'll be listening to somebody, but I'm really excited to say something back. I'm

38:55
really thinking about how am I going to formulate my thought back and and you listen to learn and reflect and you do

39:02
it in a different way and it's it's actually a skill that I appreciate about you. Is that is that just easy and

39:07
natural? Did you learn that? Do you even see that? Um, no. That's that's really

39:12
kind. I I think I wasn't very good at that. M I think I was someone who just

39:20
wanted to come across as smarter or like

39:27
a better leader or what whatever you know and so sometimes even out of my own insecurity I would talk over someone you

39:33
know or out of efficiency talk over someone and just try to move something forward and then I started to realize

39:39
like oh what can be gained when someone feels

39:46
equals full safety. And I always say trust is a mathematical formula. Safe

39:52
plus consistent again and again over and over on repeat makes you worthy of trust. And if you think about the five

39:58
dysfunctions of a team, Lencion talks about when there's an absence of trust,

40:03
you're going to have the the the fear of conflict, the lack of commitment, the

40:09
avoidance of accountability, and the inattention to results. Well, if you can't listen well,

40:16
you're not coming across as safe. And and what ends up happening is it actually diminishes someone from saying,

40:22
"If I ever disagreed, I don't think it will be heard. I don't think I can bring this to that person." Which then affects

40:29
their commitment to the organization or the mission. And for me, I just realized, wow, when someone can feel

40:35
heard, they might not agree with what my final decision was, but at least they

40:42
felt respected in the dignity of being heard for their point. And I it makes it

40:48
easier for them to kind of stack hands once we leave the boardroom and go, "Okay, we're going to do it this way."

40:53
Um, than if they're oh, they didn't they didn't really they already had their mind made up. They already they already

40:59
knew what they were going to do. So, so not only are you a great leader in my

Servant Leadership Takeaways

41:04
opinion, a great servant leader, but you've been able to sit under lots of servant leaders like you've talked about. What do you think is the biggest/
41:11
takeaway you've had from from some of these leaders you've been sitting under?

41:17
My my favorite leader that I've ever worked under was uh the former CEO of Herman Miller

41:24
and his name is Mike Vulma. And I think he's arguably um the

41:31
just a phenomenal in Jim Collins language uh level five leader and and I

41:38
remember asking him about level five leaders and he said they

41:45
exist. Um often times in Fortune 100 companies

41:50
it's hard to do that. You only have 12 days off you know a year. You're you're you're having to push. It's hard to be a

41:56
great family man. It's hard to it's hard to do all that stuff. He said, "But there's a lot of them in the Fortune 300

42:02
and 400 companies cuz they just decided this is enough that I need to make and I

42:08
can still coach my kids soccer team." Yeah. And and I think it's all it really is is wrestling down what does

42:14
contentment look like? What is your priorities? How much is enough? What do you actually want? You know, written in

42:21
your eulogy as David Brooks talks about. When you begin to think about that um

42:27
and glean from leaders who embody that, it just gives you a bit of a roadmap to say, "I I want to be more like that than

42:34
that." If that makes sense. Yeah. I love that. Well, Steve, I want to finish with

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

42:40
10 rapid fire questions where you just say the first thing that comes to mind. No wrong answers. Who's the first person

42:47
you think of when I say servant leadership? Jesus. All right. Favorite book or movie? Uh, Divine Conspiracy by

42:54
Dallas Willard. All right. Favorite food? Mexican food. Oh. What's an interesting fact about you? More

43:02
surprising fact about you. Um, surprising fact. Surprising fact. Um, I

43:07
played college basketball. Play is not the right word. I sat at the bench, but I got free shoes. So, five words that

43:13
most describe you. Um, kind.

43:20
Uh, a hope, generous, um, connection,

43:26
communicator, uh, leader. Favorite thing to do in your

43:31
free time? Hang with my wife and my kids. Love that. Favorite place you've been? Uh, any anywhere near water. I

43:38
love the ocean. So, uh, Cabo, California. Somewhere you want to go that you haven't been. I want to go to B

43:46
uh, in Canada. I don't know why that just for some apparent reason. BA and Patagonia are like places I want to go.

43:51
All right. Best advice you've ever received. My dad told me when I brought a girl home once in college, he said I

43:58
asked her I asked him if he liked her and what he thought of her. And he said, "Everybody has crazy in their closet.

44:06
You just have to figure out which crazy you can live with and not wake up every morning trying to fix or change." And I

44:13
think not just every person has crazy, but every culture has crazy. And and

44:19
it's just helped me kind of make sense of, oh, this is this is my kind of crazy, you know, I I can I can handle

44:24
this. And um so yeah, that's great advice. My my dad always told me, look at the hole, not the holes as well,

44:32
right? Not all the issues, but look at the hole and what you're getting. Yeah. Your dad is phenomenal. What a great

44:37
man. What a great man. Well, I'm so thankful you were on the podcast. a lot of people are going to want to hear more

Finding More Info About Steve Carter

44:42
from you. They're want to get want gonna want to learn from you and with the podcast you're doing. Talk about that

44:49
and how people can find it and also kind of some of the stuff just how people can stay in touch. Yeah. So, uh if you just

44:54
went to stecarter.org um or on social media, it's just steve Ryan Carter all one word. Um and then

45:01
Crafting Character, the podcast, it could be found um on all platforms. Love it. Well, hopefully our listeners are

45:08
going to tune in and start listening to the stuff you're doing, too, because I've learned a lot from you and I'm so thankful for you. Thank you, Chris. It's

45:14
an honor to be with you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what

Closing

45:20
you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit the notification

45:28
bell to never miss an update. Be sure to check out the servantleershippodcast.org for more updates and additional bonus

45:34
content.