Alec Hill's Intro

0:06
Today on the servant leadership podcast,

0:08
we're joined by Alec Hill, a leader well

0:11
known around the world for his deep

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commitment to servant leadership. Alec

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spent 14 years as the president of

0:16
Interarity Christian Fellowship, leading

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thousands of people across 150

0:21
countries. His career has spanned law,

0:23
refugee work, academia, and publishing,

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all woven together by a desire to lead

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with integrity and purpose. In this

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episode, Alec shares how a cancer

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diagnosis changed his perspective on

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life, and how he's found purpose in

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bonus time. Whether you're facing your

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own crisis or just want to lead with

0:41
greater purpose, this conversation is

0:43
one you won't want to miss.

Welcome Alec Hill

0:46
Alec, thank you for joining us on the

0:47
Servant Leadership Podcast.

0:50
Great to be with you.

0:52
When I first heard your story, uh, it

0:55
had such an impact on me. And we'll get

0:57
into why that was, but I'd love for you

Alec's Career Journey

1:00
to share with our audience a little bit

1:02
of your career path and how you what

1:05
your career looked like because it was

1:07
all over the place.

1:09
Yeah, I'm a linear person, but it was

1:11
not a linear life. Um yeah, I was a

1:13
lawyer and um then I decided I didn't

1:15
like that. So I got out and uh went into

1:18
refugee resettlement with World Relief

1:19
at age 27. Uh then became a professor.

1:23
Um I taught business law and then became

1:26
dean of a business school which is

1:27
totally fraudulent because I'd never

1:28
taken a management or finance course in

1:30
my life. Um and then um became president

1:34
of Interarsity Christian Fellowship USA

1:36
for 14 years. Um so that's kind of the

1:39
career path. I will say at 62 I got bone

1:42
marrow cancer. I know we're going to

1:43
talk about that. And then for the last

1:44
10 years, it's hard to believe. I have

1:46
been coaching, mentoring, and teaching.

1:48
Wow. And your career path obviously is

"Just Business" - Christian Ethics

1:52
just so interesting from law to

1:54
education to business to

1:57
ministry to writing to all kinds of

1:59
stuff. But one of the things that I

2:01
thought was interesting is somewhere

2:03
along the line, you've written a couple

2:05
books, but one of them was just

2:06
business. and it kind of gets into how

2:08
to navigate ethical challenges in the

2:10
marketplace and why did you decide to

2:12
write that book based on some of your

2:14
experiences and and what was it about?

2:17
Yeah, I was teaching uh we had an MBA

2:19
program at Boeing and I was supposed to

2:21
bring Christian ethics into these

2:23
non-Christian basically engineers and um

2:26
I had to do it and I couldn't find

2:28
anything. A lot of the material I found

2:29
was Sunday schoolish or amateur-ish. Uh

2:32
this is back in the 90s so there there

2:34
really wasn't much on the market. So I

2:36
wrote it out of necessity and the fun

2:38
thing was I tested the the each chapter

2:40
out on my classes. So they would take

2:42
out sort of the the gospel speak if it

2:45
was too Christianes and you know they

2:47
would kind of polish the stone and it

2:49
got down to so now it's in its third I'm

2:51
writing actually writing the fourth

2:52
edition. It continues to sell and be

2:54
used number of campuses. So that has

2:57
been a surprise in my life that that has

2:59
gone so well. So along the way you wrote

"Living In Bonus Time" - Surviving Cancer and Finding New Purpose

3:03
a second book and this is really the

3:06
book that I really en I like both but I

3:09
really enjoyed the second one. Uh

3:11
talking about living in bonus time. Talk

3:13
about how this even came to be and what

3:15
the journey was like to write your

3:17
second book.

3:18
So in April of 2015 I fainted um and I

3:23
blew it off and I didn't tell my wife

3:25
and a friend who was at me at breakfast

3:27
he said if you don't tell her I will. So

3:29
I went home and that led to a series of

3:31
tests and um it turned out to be

3:34
myodisplacia syndrome which is a form of

3:37
bone marrow cancer. So it was

3:39
devastating news and I was failing fast.

3:42
Uh I had a second test done in Seattle.

3:43
I was we were living in Wisconsin at the

3:45
time. Um and it looked really bleak. It

3:48
felt like a death sentence. So um uh

3:52
they put me in a high-risisk category

3:53
and high-risisk cancer. So, uh, the only

3:56
possible uh solution was a bone marrow

3:59
transplant. Uh, my second my my I had

4:01
two older brothers. The middle one was a

4:03
perfect match on all four counts. Um,

4:05
obviously it went well. I'm here. Uh,

4:08
I'm an outlier through no merit. I

4:09
remember telling asking the doctor, I

4:11
said, "Well, did I survive because I'm

4:13
fit and because I'm this?" And they

4:14
said, "No, it's because your brother was

4:16
a perfect match, stupid. Shut up and

4:18
don't take credit for it." Um, you know,

4:20
in a divine sense. So, so the title of

4:22
the book is living in bonus time which

4:24
is basically borrowing a soccer metaphor

4:26
of stoppage time and you play in the 90

4:28
minutes in soccer football as they say

4:30
globally and then you you stop and then

4:32
you play this extra period of time you

4:34
know when it starts you don't know when

4:35
it ends. So my life is like that

4:37
regulation time ended in 2015 and bonus

4:41
time started then and um you know I'm

4:44
not going to live as long as I probably

4:45
would because the treatments are pretty

4:47
harsh. So, I'm 72. Uh, I have a body

4:50
probably of a five to 10 years older

4:52
than that person is what they've told

4:54
me. Um, I've had two new hips and a new

4:56
knee. And I mean, there's just all this

4:58
kind of stuff. But I'm here enjoying

4:59
grandchildren and life and uh very

5:02
thankful.

5:04
Wow. it such an intense period of time

Encouraging People Who Are Going Through Trauma

5:07
for you and probably a lot of I'm

5:10
guessing fear and doubts and the book

5:13
really talks about how you navigated

5:15
that to find completely new purpose. uh

5:19
when you deal with people all the time

5:21
who've read the book or who at different

5:23
speaking events that you do around the

5:24
world and and you talk about this

5:26
journey, how do you encourage people

5:29
when they're at rock bottom or just in a

5:31
pit with no end in sight?

5:35
Two ways. Um the first is there's a

5:37
science called post-traumatic growth

5:40
which I had never heard of which says

5:42
that that those of us who go through

5:44
trauma whether it's bankruptcy or

5:46
divorce or death of a child or a cancer

5:48
or an accident whatever it is um

5:51
twothirds of us actually say three years

5:53
later that we are better people for it.

5:55
We're stronger for it. We're more

5:56
resilient. We're bolder. So you know you

5:59
always hear about PTSD which is the

6:01
downside. You never hear about this

6:03
growth. And so that was a real shock to

6:04
me when I was researching for the book.

6:06
I thought I'm experiencing some sort of

6:09
incredible internal growth through this.

6:11
And I have never I was surprised. I

6:14
thought I was an anomaly. Turns out I I

6:16
fit in the majority. I think the other

6:19
is you just gain a perspective on

6:21
eternity on life. Um and you you live

6:24
with a greater purpose and drive. And um

6:28
I think I read that um one out of four

6:30
Americans say they have a real they know

6:32
their purpose at life. Three out of four

6:33
cancer survivors answer that

6:35
affirmatively. So there's a sharpening a

6:38
clarity of why why I'm here and what I

6:40
do.

6:42
Wow.

Writing A Book - Intimidating?

6:43
In in your writing experiences, one of

6:45
the things that if people look at your

6:47
background, they start to realize is you

6:49
ran a major uh publishing organization.

6:54
And so here you are writing books and

6:56
some people might expect you to write

6:58
books because yeah well this is what you

7:00
run for a living but at the same time

7:03
was that intimidating to get into book

7:05
writing knowing all the great authors

7:07
and books that you've been involved in?

7:11
Well just to just to be clear soars is a

7:14
large 110 $120 million organization.

7:17
Inter Press is about a$20 million part

7:20
of it. So it's a subset. So I I wasn't

7:22
the publisher of of Interroars Press. I

7:25
was the president over but I I was

7:27
involved. We but I wasn't I want to give

7:29
Bob Frying who was the publisher credit

7:31
due. Um but yeah it was it's a little

7:34
intimidating when you're when you're

7:35
floating in circles with you know um

7:38
Eugene Peterson and Andy Crouch who's

7:41
been on your show and other people like

7:42
that who publish with University Press.

7:44
So uh I will say it it it um it's a

7:47
wonderful crowd to run with.

Background Behind Writing Books

7:50
Did it make it easier or harder that

7:52
that was one of the divisions of what

7:53
you're doing and and getting to work

7:55
with your team on publishing a book?

7:58
You know, I some people are born authors

8:00
and they live to write. That's what they

8:02
I'm not that. I'm an activist. I'm a I'm

8:04
a leader. Uh I like to do things. So

8:08
with the ethics book and the cancer

8:09
book, I wrote it out of necessity. There

8:11
was something inside of me that said I

8:13
had to do this. I think with the cancer

8:15
book, it was to make sense of the

8:17
craziness of it. it was to redeem

8:19
somehow um and to I I I think it was to

8:23
repurpose the pain. So, uh the cancer

8:26
book was kind of unique. Um I didn't

8:28
think at age 60, what was I 64, 65 I'd

8:30
be writing another book. I thought I'd

8:32
done I thought I was a one and done sort

8:34
of author and one hit wonder if you

8:36
will. Uh and then I the second book came

8:38
out. I don't have a third book in mind.

8:41
So,

Biggest Takeaways From "Bonus Time"

8:42
when people hear your story and you're

8:44
going around the world and speaking and

8:45
talking and doing things like this, uh,

8:48
you've become an inspiration to so many

8:50
people, what do you hope the biggest

8:52
takeaways are when people read the book

8:54
and really are thinking about the bonus

8:56
time in their life or how to get out of

8:58
just a bad season? What do you hope

9:00
those big takeaways are? Well, first of

9:02
all, let me say some people don't get

9:04
well, some people die, some people have

9:07
chronic pain, and for them, I just feel

9:10
a real sense of of of pain and loss and

9:14
and and struggle. So, I just want to

9:16
acknowledge that group of people. And

9:18
for those who are caregivers and the

9:20
life who have lost people, I'm really

9:22
sad and sorry for that. But for those of

9:24
us who survive

9:26
and who aren't in chronic pain, there is

9:29
this wonderfully weird special period of

9:33
life that is unlike any other. Uh I

9:37
mentioned sharpened focus. Um, I

9:39
mentioned there there's this odd

9:41
combination, uh, Chris, of of being at

9:45
peace and at ease and slowing things

9:47
down, but there's also this sense of

9:48
intensity that you want to live life

9:51
more purposefully and more directly. And

9:53
so, um, I I know it's not going to last

9:56
forever. I know my body, uh, will

9:58
eventually catch up with me, uh, not

10:00
only with aging. I've got two lines. I

10:02
got this aging line, which I'm getting

10:03
older, but then I also have the cancer

10:04
line. The cancer is gone, but the

10:06
effects of the cancer. So,

10:09
um, you know, you can either react two

10:11
ways to that. Either is, oh, dread. Oh,

10:13
in two or five or 10 years, I'm going to

10:14
be X. Or you can go, I've got two or

10:16
five or 10 years I didn't think I had.

10:18
So, I think part of it is a sense of

10:20
perspective. Um, you know, one of the

10:22
pieces that surprised me a little bit

10:24
was um one of the early chapters is is

God's Presence On Dark Days

10:27
the Lord's presence on dark days. And um

10:30
I had assumed that when people go into

10:32
these dark times, they feel abandoned.

10:34
And some do um and some feel I did not I

10:38
felt God's presence in a really unique

10:41
and powerful way in my life. I mean

10:44
powerfully that so much that I thought

10:45
it was only going to last for a short

10:46
while that it'd be a little grace. It is

10:48
continued in a very special way ever

10:51
since. So that that has so when I think

10:54
about dying I think about heaven. Um I

10:58
look forward to it. I mean I I I I don't

11:00
want to leave my grandchildren and my

11:01
children, my wife. I don't want to. But

11:03
I really look forward to to life being

11:06
extended beyond this. So that's that's a

11:07
hope that I have.

11:10
Wow.

Trauma's Affect On Servant Leadership

11:11
On on this podcast, we talk a lot about

11:13
servant leadership and obviously what

11:15
you just shared about your outlook on

11:18
life. How do you think servant

11:19
leadership plays into how you lead now

11:23
maybe differently than how you led

11:24
before?

11:26
I died. Um my my ego well I can't say my

11:30
ego died. I still have a, you know, um,

11:32
but but when you die, when you face your

11:35
own mortality, you realize how kind of

11:38
small you are and yet you also realize

11:40
how important you are to play the role

11:41
that you're you're given. So I think

11:44
it's made me more of a servant. So I was

11:47
a type A executive leader who now

11:51
mentors 20 people a month um, and

11:54
invests in their lives. Most of them are

11:56
30, 40 or 50 years old, younger than me

11:58
obviously. And um I get great joy. I

12:02
mean absolute amazing joy out of being a

12:05
partner with them walking on their

12:06
journey. So um if anything I've shifted

12:09
from this this sort of primary alpha

12:12
leader to this support person and I'm s

12:17
I'm stunned that I love it. I I never

12:20
thought that I'd be this pastoral.

12:22
um it wasn't re it was kind of there but

12:25
it was really underdeveloped and now

12:26
it's primary to what I do.

Leading InterVarsity Christian Fellowship

12:28
Obviously we alluded to Inner Varity's

12:32
publishing arm a little bit. Intervarity

12:34
did a lot more than that as you alluded

12:36
to as well uh than just publishing. Talk

12:39
about what it was like to lead such a

12:41
massive organization that had influence

12:43
all around the world.

12:45
So this is interesting. And so I went

12:47
from a university where I had 35 faculty

12:50
and staff to a a nonprofit with a

12:54
thousand staff that went up to 1,600

12:56
staff. Um I was 48 years old. I was way

13:00
over my head. I made lots of mistakes.

13:03
And it's amazing I survived the first

13:05
five years because it was all on the job

13:06
training. I hadn't been a vice

13:08
president. I'd just been a dean. I mean

13:10
know. So it was a two-step jump. And we

13:12
moved from Seattle to Madison,

13:14
Wisconsin. Um it was the grace of God.

13:17
Um my wife was the other component I

13:20
think who just sort of made me sane and

13:21
it kept me going. Uh I'd say the last

13:24
half of that tenure was really fruitful

13:26
and pretty wonderful. But um I my one

13:31
piece of advice here is don't skip a

13:32
level. You know I skipped a level and I

13:35
paid for it. The organization paid for

13:36
it. Um we survived it. Um but yeah,

13:40
university um largely does campus

13:43
ministry. So we have chapters on oh I

13:46
don't know a thousand chapters I I don't

13:48
know what the numbers are today uh on

13:50
campuses around the United States and

13:52
these are um usually staffed sometimes

13:54
with volunteers uh and they work with

13:56
college students um to provide a a place

13:59
for Christian students but also outreach

14:01
to those who are seeking faith.

Impact Of Crisis On Servant Leadership

14:03
You talk about skipping a level and that

14:05
being really difficult uh and causing

14:08
some problems. How do you think people

14:09
become a better servant leader

14:11
throughout times of crisis and really

14:13
prepare themselves for times of crisis

14:16
and areas where they might not be

14:17
equipped to lead in?

14:19
I don't think you prepare for crisis. I

14:21
think they find you and and they find us

14:24
all because we live in in this world

14:26
that's not perfect. So I think it's how

14:28
we react to crisis. Um and um you know

14:32
we can we can react with dow sort of

14:35
negative or put a fence around

14:37
ourselves. Um or we can try to find gold

14:40
in the manure. I wrote this in an

14:42
article once said that you know if you

14:44
flush your your wedding ring down the

14:46
toilet you go for it even though there's

14:48
stuff there you don't want to do. So

14:49
with with senior leadership, when you

14:51
have a crisis, you can bail, you can you

14:54
can freeze, you can protect, or you can

14:57
continue to walk out and getting shot

14:59
at. And and you know, the world is so

15:02
much more polarized now than it was 10

15:03
years ago. I I would I I really feel for

15:06
nonprofit leaders right now. It's it's

15:08
it's incre it's incredibly hard to do

15:11
well. Um but but if we if we can have a

15:14
close circle of people who we trust who

15:16
hold us accountable and love us um we

15:18
can move through these crises and

15:21
believe me there's one crisis after

15:22
another in senior leadership. I mean it

15:24
it never really ends. Um and so I I

15:27
really admire people who who walk that

15:29
journey. I also know this that if you

15:31
faithfully walk through those crises and

15:33
if you act well, you become a much

15:36
better and well-developed human being.

15:39
And um I'd like to think that's what

15:41
happened with me. Um yeah, I think I'm a

15:44
better human being now than I was before

15:46
the crisis. Before even before the

15:47
cancer, there were there were series of

15:49
crises that that that that put scars um

15:52
but also shaped and formed.

Growing Through Organizational Crisis

15:55
On the work front, are there any that

15:57
stand out that you feel like, boy, that

15:59
was just a really hard season, whether

16:02
it be a mistake or just a hard

16:04
leadership season that turned you into a

16:06
better servant leader moving forward?

16:09
Yeah, without going into details, it was

16:11
about 2005, which is now 20 years ago.

16:14
It's hard to believe, but I still

16:15
remember it really well. And things just

16:17
blew up and uh I did not handle the

16:20
crisis particularly well, um to say the

16:23
least. Um I was inexperienced. Um and so

16:28
um the sad thing is there's collateral

16:30
damage in terms of people's lives and

16:32
and other people who were and so it's

16:34
not really my story, it's other people.

16:36
Um I would say for me

16:39
very humbling. Um my reputation was my

16:42
idol up to that point and my reputation

16:45
got kind of shot and I had to learn to

16:48
um be true to God's calling in my life

16:53
um to be to express um sadness and

16:57
sorrow and and to talk and and be

16:59
vulnerable. Um and I think through that

17:01
that went on for a couple years. It was

17:03
a very long hard journey. Um, and um, I

17:08
I almost hate to talk about myself

17:10
because again, I'm more concerned about

17:11
the other people who who were hurt in

17:13
this process. Um, but I um, I learned

17:19
um, I licked my wounds. I kept walking

17:21
towards what I consider to be the sun. I

17:23
continue to try to do the right things.

17:26
Um, and I did become a better person.

17:30
Um, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's

17:32
like cancer. I'm a better person for the

17:34
cancer, but I wouldn't wish it on

17:35
anyone.

17:36
Right. I I've heard from now multiple

Balancing Vision Casting and Caring For People

17:39
people who know you well personally and

17:42
have worked with you over the years that

17:45
you

17:45
Oh, really? You have a dossier on me.

17:48
Well, well, I I've heard that they've

17:51
said you're a great vision cer, but you

17:53
set really clear and concrete goals, but

17:55
one of the things that you did uniquely

17:57
was cared for people well. And one of

17:59
the things that maybe I wonder in that

18:02
journey um and and I'm just curious how

18:06
people can balance the tension of like

18:09
hard charging big goals, God-sized

18:12
visions with caring for people and

18:14
actually lifting people up with them.

18:15
How did you balance all that tension and

18:17
deal with that?

18:19
Pretentiousness is a real sin. And I uh

18:22
I'm an anagram three if you if you know

18:24
what that means. And I like to achieve

18:25
and do things. Um, and it's one of my

18:28
besetting sins is is is accolades and

18:31
applause. And when the clapping stopped

18:34
and I was viewed appropriately in some

18:36
in many ways with skepticism,

18:39
um, I I had to re the plane had to be

18:44
rebuilt in in mid-flight, you know, and

18:46
I had to have a different set of rooting

18:48
core identity identity, you you know. So

18:52
I think you know it's interesting you

18:53
you let me take a little bit of a

18:55
tangent here but I think this issue of

18:57
identity is key. So as a senior leader

18:59
what we a lot of us start out with is

19:02
that we we love we're golden child ch we

19:04
we we we achieve we get we we get

19:07
applause and when that doesn't happen

19:09
and our identity in that phase is all

19:12
built around those achievements and the

19:14
applause. But when when those two things

19:16
stop, when it's not going well in the in

19:18
the business or the ministry in my case,

19:21
uh and you aren't getting the applause,

19:22
you have to re readjust your identity

19:25
completely. So I u that's what happened

19:27
to me over a period of years. My

19:29
identity got rrooted in something much

19:31
more solid than where I had been.

Maintaining Your Identity

19:35
Wow. for people listening. Uh obviously

19:38
our identity can get caught up in our

19:40
work, in the things we're doing, in our

19:42
families, in whatever. It could be

19:44
really good things that that our

19:46
identities were putting our identities

19:48
into.

19:49
How do you balance that? And what does

19:51
that look like to not keep your identity

19:53
in what you do, but in

19:55
in something else? And what is that

19:57
something else?

19:59
Well, you know, for me, it's my it's my

20:01
faith and um and God is very good to me.

20:05
Um I I feel like I'm a child of God

20:08
first and foremost. Um and that protects

20:12
me more now. U but you know I was a

20:15
child of God before when I was when I

20:17
was an achieving kind of accolade

20:19
person. So um I think it's back to the

20:22
crisis conversation we had. Um crisis

20:25
crises open our eyes. they they strip

20:27
away the blindness and they show us, oh,

20:30
I had an appearance of control that I

20:32
really controlled things or that I was

20:34
really um the the the X factor in making

20:37
this happen. And and when you get

20:39
cancer, all of that stripped away

20:41
because you have no control and you

20:43
realize that you and I think the

20:45
arrogance that I've had my whole life of

20:47
I control more than I do. Now, on the

20:49
positive side, that makes me um uh get

20:52
things done. It moves the ball along.

20:54
I'm an agent. I have agency. But on the

20:57
negative side, I become a mini god. I I

21:00
I I'm a bit messianic in my own how I

21:03
help people and how that has been

21:05
stripped away largely. And I and I think

21:08
where and again at age 72, I like where

21:10
I am now. And I look back and kind of

21:13
shudder at my arrogance and my innocence

21:16
um my presumptuousness that I that I

21:21
displayed most of my life. So now you've

Transition To Mentoring

21:23
transitioned into helping mentor so many

21:26
other young leaders. Uh how do you

21:29
identify who to help in their next

21:32
servant leadership journey and then what

21:34
are you actually walking them through

21:36
and helping them with?

21:37
So in terms of the identification piece

21:39
um I don't recruit. Um so I started with

21:43
I had a year of isolation followed the

21:45
bone marrow transplant and I had 15

21:46
intervarity staff who uh some of whom

21:49
were stay still with me uh on a monthly

21:52
call basis and then other people have

21:54
just drifted in. Uh I teach at regent

21:56
college in Canada for example I have a

21:57
number of former students there. Um I

22:00
work with a foundation in Portland area

22:02
called Murdoch Trust. I have a number of

22:03
mentees who come through those programs.

22:06
Um so I don't I don't have a website. I

22:09
don't recruit. Um and and it's been

22:12
ample in terms of and I'm I'm I'm just

22:15
surprised and it's wonderful that people

22:17
want to chat. Um I think what motivates

22:21
a 45year-old leader to want to talk to

22:24
someone my age and stage is there's a

22:26
loneliness in the job which I I resonate

22:29
with. I spend a lot of time saying

22:30
you're not crazy. What you're

22:32
experiencing, how you're feeling is

22:34
understandable. Um, I think when people

22:37
go through transitions or crises, they

22:40
need someone to tell them they're okay.

22:43
And so, um, I do a lot of of that. Um,

22:46
transitions is a big word. It seems like

22:49
most of my mentees over a period of two

22:51
or three years are going through a major

22:53
transition of one sort or another. So,

22:55
I'm kind of become a transition coach. I

22:56
I wouldn't call it I didn't know that

22:58
was a skill set, but it is. and and

23:00
walking people through and calming them

23:03
down, um looking at their options, um

23:06
praying with them. I do a lot of that.

Encouraging Potential In Others

23:10
I'd be curious when when you're working

23:12
with these people, you probably see

23:14
certain potential in them that they

23:16
might or might not see in themselves.

23:18
Are you seeing more potential in people

23:20
or are you often having to help people

23:23
see their blind spots and really point

23:25
out big areas of weaknesses as you're

23:27
working with all these very capable and

23:29
go-getter type leaders?

23:31
I'm a chronic optimist and so I tend to

23:33
be the former. I tend to see the upsides

23:36
of people and um I I'm not a major

23:40
confr. I mean, if if they say something

23:42
stupid, I'll I'll point it out, but 90%

23:45
of the time, it's mostly um you're

23:47
underestimating, you're undershooting,

23:49
you're you're being too hard on

23:51
yourself. Um be patient. And so, it's

23:54
it's more encouragement. Um you know,

23:57
it's kind of analogous when I was dean

23:59
of the business school. Um you had ten

24:02
untenured faculty members and they're

24:03
all trying to get tenured. Well, we

24:06
divided. We had a guy who was on the

24:08
tenure committee and we made him just

24:09
being developmental. So, he did not he

24:11
did not sit on the evaluation committee.

24:14
So, Ian was his name and Ian just

24:15
coached these people. They loved Ian.

24:17
Well, at this age and stage in my life,

24:19
I'm all development and no evaluation.

24:22
And it is absolutely delightful.

24:26
Oh, golly. So, I'm I'm their I'm their

24:28
best friend and their biggest supporter.

24:29
I know you're partnering with people

Ethics In Leadership

24:31
one-on-one, but you're also doing a lot

24:33
with universities still to this day,

24:35
partnering and showing up and doing

24:37
part-time stuff with the stuff that you

24:40
try to teach people. A lot of it, I

24:42
know, revolves around leadership and

24:44
ethics and things like that. From your

24:46
journey, where do you see ethics play in

24:49
in terms of these tough circumstances

24:52
people deal with and then having to

24:54
actually be a great servant leader and

24:56
step beyond ethical issues that are very

24:59
tempting or just things that they

25:01
shouldn't have gotten into.

25:03
What's amazing to me is there are a lot

25:05
of leaders who don't have an ethical

25:07
grid. they have they have random verses

25:10
or addages from Socrates or Jesus they

25:12
that they bring in but they're kind of

25:15
oneoffs and um just a a brief thing on

25:18
my book. So the the basic idea of the

25:20
the ethics book is that um Christian

25:22
ethics is based on the character of God

25:24
and God is holy, God is just and God is

25:28
loving. And so the the book then for 300

25:31
pages goes on and and applies those to

25:34
various aspects of employee employee

25:36
relationships the environment and says

25:37
you know that we have to do things that

25:39
have integrity holiness we have to do

25:41
things that are just and that justice is

25:42
a very complex subject and we have to do

25:44
things that are loving and it's not one

25:46
of the three or two of the three all

25:47
three have to line up. I when I wrote

25:50
the book I I didn't realize that it

25:52
would sort of set my own direction of

25:55
what how I how I deal with ethics. So

25:57
whether it's a personal finance issue or

25:59
whatever, I I I use those three lenses.

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

26:03
So Alec, you've given so much good

26:06
insight to our audience and shared a lot

26:08
of your journey. I want to throw 10

26:10
rapidfire questions at you where you

26:12
just say the first thing that comes to

26:14
mind for the last minute. Who's the

26:16
first person you think of when I say

26:18
servant leadership?

26:20
Jimmy Carter, postpresident.

26:22
Five words that most describe you.

26:24
Intense. Uh, charming, needy, pious. I

26:30
hope that's four. Was that enough?

26:33
No, that's good. Favorite book or movie?

26:35
Ordinary Grace is a novel uh that people

26:38
can look up on Amazon. Uh, it's

26:40
brilliantly written. Um, lovely book.

26:43
Yeah. Favorite movie is a good one. I'd

26:45
have to think more about that.

26:46
Favorite food?

26:48
Thai food.

26:50
Favorite thing to do in your free time?

26:51
Oh, well, there's two. Uh, camping and

26:54
going to a Saddle Mariner game.

26:56
Nice.

26:56
Which is painful. Camping is more

26:58
enjoyable. Camping is more enjoyable.

27:01
Lately, for sure. Surprising fact about

27:04
you.

27:04
Went to high school with Bill Gates.

27:06
Wow.

27:07
Paul Allen was in my class. There were

27:09
only 16 guys. It was an allmale school.

27:11
So that's that's a very unique fact of

27:14
my life.

27:16
Wow. Favorite place you've been?

27:18
Ethiopia.

27:19
All right. Where's somewhere you want to

27:20
go that you have not been?

27:22
Yeah, that is a great question. Um,

27:26
probably Turkey. I've been to Turkey.

27:28
What am I talking about? There are parts

27:29
of Turkey I'd like to go to. I'll put it

27:30
that way. Yeah, I've been to I've been

27:32
to an I've been to the capital, but

27:35
well, any I'd like to see more of the

27:36
country.

27:37
Best advice you've ever received?

27:40
Oh, well, that's a that's a quick

27:42
answer, isn't it?

27:45
Don't be a train that runs over people.

27:47
Be a train that carries people.

27:50
Wow, that's good. Well, thank you, Alec,

Closing

27:52
for being willing to share some of your

27:54
journey and your is wisdom and insights

27:56
with our audience. And uh I'm just

27:59
really thankful for you.

28:00
Well, Chris, thank you. And it's good to

28:02
reconnect after what at least a decade

28:05
uh when we saw each other or whatever

28:07
how many years it's been. So,

28:08
thank you for listening to this episode

28:10
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

28:13
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

28:15
it a thumbs up and leave a comment

28:17
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28:22
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28:24
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