Anne Beiler's Intro

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Today on the servant leadership podcast, we welcome Anne Ber, best known as the founder of Auntie Anan's pretzels.

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Anne's story goes far beyond the success of a global brand. Anne grew up in an Amish family, experienced the

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heartbreaking loss of her daughter, and endured years of pain and confusion after abuse from a trusted pastor.

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Through confession and vulnerability, her life was completely transformed. Out of all of this pain and the story of

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redemption that came from it, Auntie Ans became a company built on love, generosity, and servant leadership. Join

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us as Anne shares how her story has helped others find freedom and purpose, reminding us that light can emerge from

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even the darkest places. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to thank Thrivant for partnering with us on the

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servant leadership podcast. Thrivant is a holistic Fortune 500 financial services organization that provides

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Welcome Anne Beiler

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Ann, welcome to the Servant Leadership Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Hey, thank you, Chris. and I'm I'm uh

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thrilled to be on your podcast and looking forward to what our conversation is going to be all about.

Anne's Journey - The "Auntie Anne's" Story

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When people think of you, they probably think of Antie's and they probably think

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you've had a crazy successful business journey, which you have, but they

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probably have not heard the actual story behind how all of this got started and

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how relatable it is on so many fronts. and I'm wondering could you kind of share the journey of how Auntie Ants

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even got started more on the personal side than on the business side to get started. Thank you for the opportunity for me to

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share my story to begin with because uh it's a great story. It's a God story. It's uh something that I really never

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planned to do or to be. And uh a lot of your listeners may not even know that

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there is a real auntie. I just went to an auntie story yesterday in my in Waco,

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Texas. and they were like, "Oh, wow. There's there's a real auntie in." Yeah,

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that's it. That's me. I'm alive and well. So, I want all of your people to know there is a real auntie in. And um I

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love my life now, Chris. And I'm grateful for the the the life that

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became so uh what the word is so surprising. Uh I

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grew up in an Amish home. Uh horse and buggy Amish. no electricity for the first few years of my life. And then mom

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and dad went from the old order Amish to the black car Amish where we moved on up in in the world. And we were able to be

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uh we look like Amish, but we were able to have a car, a black car and

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electricity. And my dad was able to farm with a tractor instead of horses. And so that that that's the life I really know.

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I remember the horse buggy uh as well, but the life I grew up in was the black car also, you know, on the farm, mom and

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dad taught us. There were eight of us kids and it was always important that all eight

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of us get along all the time and really important that uh whatever mom and dad asked us to do. Um mom's line was do it

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with will, do it with my things done by hands are never done right. So it's like

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we it was instilled in me as a very young girl to just um I wanted to please

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my parents and I wanted to please God and by the time I was in my adolescent years I had a theology that was really

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really strong in me is what I truly believed and that is that and they took us to church every Sunday every Sunday

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night and Bible school and all those things. So I had a really good foundation and my theology became life

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is good. God is harsh. Nobody really said that to me. But in the church that I grew up in,

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it was very important to be obedient, you know, to your parents and to God and to uh do the will of God in your life.

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And that was really the path that I followed. And I truly believed if I did everything just right and I kept every

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single one of the ten commandments, you know, it wasn't a hard life. It may sound hard as I'm saying it, but it

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really it was just kind of an outgrowth. It's it's what I grew up believing and it it's the way that we lived our life.

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But the theology uh life is good, God is harsh. Never really prepared me for

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uh disappointments, tragedy, traumas. I mean, is anybody ever really prepared? I

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guess not. But for for me, the spiritual part of my life was so important and I

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wanted to be a good girl and do everything just right. And so Jonas and I, he also grew up in the Amish culture.

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And I was 16 years old when I met him and he struck me as being he was a handsome

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dude, hardworking Amish guy. Uh same culture again. and and we just uh as as

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teenagers do, we fell in love and uh three and a half years later at the age of 19, I became Mrs. Jonas.

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That that still makes me um you know, we had no idea that day. We were just a

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happy couple and you know, we're going to have a family just like mom and dad and we're going to serve God just like

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they did. and and uh during the early years of our marriage, we we just came

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into this uh beautiful relationship with Christ himself. And I'd known him all my

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life, but there's something began to happen within the two of us, which took us then into a uh we actually built a

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church right in the middle of Langster County, uh Pennsylvania. And uh it it ended up being a

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charismatic church. And it was in this place then that it seemed like, you know, serving God and being blessed and

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doing all the right things. And I was really imshed still in this that life is so good and yeah, I'm being a good girl

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and I can't believe that, you know, here we are. We have I have a handsome dude

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guy and we both love God and we're going to church and we have two beautiful daughters and and he and I were just so

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connected in spirit and in family life, our community and our belief system and

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life is good. and uh until one day everything changed for us. And um I I

The Day "Everything Changed"

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guess I could go into that right now if that's what you want me to share or was there anything that you're wondering

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about my history up to this point that you're curious about? I I would love for you to share about

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that day, whatever you're willing. And I love where this story continues to go, having talked to you and knowing a

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little bit about where where God takes you on this journey. Yeah. And and so, you know, I I know we

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live in a day and age when when we're supposed to know at whatever in high school, maybe in maybe as a junior,

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we're supposed to know or even a freshman, you know, the rest of our life, you know, we plan it. We're

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taught, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up, you know, and around our family table, all all 10 of us as on

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the farm, the word career was never uh mentioned. So, it was really not a part

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of our vocabulary. And as we uh grew up in the Amish background, we had eighth

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grade education and um so you know the life we were living was the life that we

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thought was going to be the forever life, right? And uh it was on a Monday morning and uh at that time I was about

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27 years old and uh we'd been married seven years at that time and our

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youngest daughter Angela Joy was 19 months old and we live right next to my parents on the farm. uh in the country

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and it was a safe environment and my daughters, both of them would go to see mom almost every morning um and just

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hang out with grandma. And between our homes there was a barn that my dad uh uh

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was he he was making perm and uh it was a small little

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manufacturing making this perm. And my my sister

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worked for him and she would load and unload load and unload sand every day.

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um uh to help my father and uh every day she would um look around and many days

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she would just stop the bobcat and she would pick up Angie and sit her on her seat with her. It was farm life. It's

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it's just what we knew all of our lives. And so on a particular Monday morning as

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as our girls made her way up to my mom's house, uh I I'm in the kitchen cleaning

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up the the breakfast and we had had guests overnight and so I'm feeling kind of busy and and I watched Angie as she

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walked out the door that morning our double wide trailer and I watched her as she went around the corner and I went to

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the phone to let my mom know Angie's on her way. And uh when I had my hand on the phone that morning uh in that

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moment, even before I talked to my mother, I I heard these horrific screams that just totally pierced my heart. And

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in my heart, instantly as a mom, I knew that Angie was gone. And uh I ran to the

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front door. as I did. My dad was um running

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um over the yard toward my house holding Angela's lifeless but body wailing. I

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believe she's dead. I believe she's dead. And there's some of that that I really don't remember um

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the details of it, but I do remember in that moment um I I didn't know what to

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do with her. um my dad laid her on the grass and I picked her up and I just

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started running because I I didn't know back in the day there we didn't have 911. Um but I started running up to my

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mom's house um just um carrying her and my dad followed me and the two of us then drove

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to the clinic which was only about three minutes away from our house. And that morning was so chaotic in in in that in

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that that space in that moment in the the next hour. And

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uh everything changed for me that day because my theology um I was a good

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girl. I thought I was a pretty good wife and I love my kids and I know that God was

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pleased with me. You know, if I'm a good girl, he would be pleased with me. So that's not what I thought about that

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morning, but I really instantly wondered why did God allow this to happen. What I

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knew in that moment is that Angela was she made her ascent into heaven. I

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knew where she went. But I began my very very very slow and gradual descent into a world of

Emotional Pain And Spiritual Confusion

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spiritual pain uh and emotional pain and spiritual confusion.

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And the why was um bigger than any answers that I could

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find. And I didn't ask my pastor. I didn't ask people around me why. I I

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didn't talk about it. And Jonas and I then we both just began to drift apart

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as a couple. And there was this big fat wall, the wall of China I call it, between us to where there was hardly any

12:00
connection. Very long story. And I've written a couple of books about all of this, but

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I'll keep it as short as I can because I want your listeners to know

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that no matter it does matter uh what happens to us in

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life, but whatever that is that has completely derailed you or may have um

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maybe if you've lost yourself uh you may have lost your faith uh like I almost

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lost my soul, my faith uh my family because of the pain that I

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was carrying every single day and trying to pretend like there was nothing wrong.

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It's such a bad, very, very difficult way to live. On the inside, I was dying

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a little bit every day. On the outside, I was trying to look like everything was okay. I love a quote by my counselor

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many, many years later. He says that uh dying is not the the greatest

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tragedy, but it's what dies inside of us while we live. And that's what was

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happening to me. In a couple of months, uh my pastor invited me to come talk

Experiencing Sexual Abuse

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with him. And I was like so excited that somebody

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wanted to hear me talk about what I'm feeling on the inside. And so I went to

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his office on a Monday morning and uh we talked and before I left his office he took advantage of me physically. And as

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a young Amish girl um then in the Menanite Amish Menanite church in the

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charismatic church I honestly by the age of 27 I really didn't know anything

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about sexual abuse or abuse of spiritual power of any of of any kind because my

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life was very secure in my home in my community in my church but here uh we

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had left the you know we're in this charismatic church and we had a pastor come from the outside from Texas,

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believe it or not, and he happened to come by and he became our pastor. Anyway, this man um abused me that

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morning and I left his office and I made a choice and this is really important for uh the listeners to understand is

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the abuse was not my fault. But when I made a choice after I after this

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experience, I walked outside of my of the office door and I just stood there for a moment and I made a choice, a very

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very hard choice that morning that I would never tell anyone because he threatened me at that time. But I would

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never tell anyone what happened to me because nobody would believe me. And I felt like my only option was I have to

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keep this a secret and take it to the grave with me. That's what I thought. But what I didn't know, Chris, was that

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that one choice I made to never tell kept me enslaved to my perpetrator, the

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pastor, for almost seven long dark years. And by the end of those seven years, I knew for sure I'm unlovable. I

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hated who I was. I was unlovable, unforgivable, and unchangeable. And I

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had crossed a line with my theology. Life is good. God is harsh. I had

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crossed the line. I broke the ten commandments. Not just one, but many of

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them. You know, when you break one, you kind of break them all. I don't know, you know, but I knew I had crossed the line and that grace

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was no longer available to me. But I just want to emphasize to your audience,

Grace Is Always Available

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whoever may be listening, believer or unbeliever, you know, grace is always available. And it's never the end when

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we find ourselves in the darkest places and we think there's no way out. I want

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to tell you there was a way out for me at the end of those nearly seven years. When I finally got up off my knees, I

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literally I prayed for seven years for my God to deliver me and he did not do

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it in those seven years. And one morning, my anger just rose up inside of

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me. And I felt something inside of me say, "Go and tell Jonas your secret." And I

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could spend the next two hours to tell you all about that, but it's in my book.

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But I had enough of courage to tell to get up and go to my husband's body shop

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where he repaired cars. And with two simple confessions I made to him,

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um, something began to unlock in my heart and I began to feel some of the

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shackles fall off. I wasn't done yet, but that was the very beginning then of

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a choice that I made that day. The choice I made first took me into the

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dark world. The choice that I made um that I that I made that morning to tell Jonas took me into the world of light.

Choosing To Go Toward The Light

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I'm familiar with the world of light. I grew up in that world. So finding myself making that cha choice to go toward the

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light. I had no idea really. I understood the light. This little light

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of mine, I'm going to let it shine. I kind of knew that part of the light, but I didn't understand the power of a

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confession made takes you into truth and into light. And because all of that

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happened to us, Jonas, my husband, another very long story, broken, prayed,

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called the counselor, wept for almost 6 to8 hours in his office there that day.

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And he felt like he had lost everything. And he came home that night and he was

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challenged by his counselor. If you can love an like Jesus loves you,

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then maybe maybe there's hope for your marriage.

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Based on that one uh powerful truth that the counselor

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told Jonas, he wrestled with that thought and kept saying to himself, "How

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can I do this? How can I love Ann like Jesus loves me? I don't know. I know how Jesus loves the church, but how does he

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love me? And that became his his his um

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uh his lifeline, but also it also became his greatest challenge. And he came home that night and just told me, "Please

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promise me, h that that you won't leave me. I don't want us to get a divorce, but if you want to go, if you feel like

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you have to go, just let me know. Don't leave a note on the dresser in the middle of the night, but can you just

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come and tell me that you got to go? And if you do, then

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I'll help you. I'll help you find a place and I'll help you pack your bags. But if you go, you have to take the

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girls with you because they need you as their mother. That was

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the moment Chris when a little little teeny tiny flicker of

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hope like oh my wow he's not going to leave me and so that began our journey

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and that process then led him to um study psych psychology and he became a

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layman's counselor and he became in time began to marriage to um counsel couples

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in our community in our home as a free service and that became his passion.

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Auntie Ans was created because my husband had a purpose that was bigger

The Creation Of Auntie Anne's

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than himself. He had never read a book in his life. He is extremely dyslexic.

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But the passion in him about helping other people uh became his purpose and his mission.

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So he's not making any money. I go to work. I find a farmers market 20 minutes

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from my house. Somebody called me and said, "It's for sale." And I'm like, "Well, we have no money. Literally, we had no money." And we went to my

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father-in-law. He loaned us $6,000 to buy that store. And that was the beginning

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of ants. Do you know how important it is to tell your story? Because every time you do, you feel it all over again.

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And you you experience the the the losses that you experienced,

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but you you experience the the the miracle

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for me. I experience the miracle every single time I tell my story.

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It is such a powerful story and thank you for sharing all of that. It's it's

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interesting hearing that journey of life was just going so good until it wasn't

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and then from then on everything that was happening inside of you just was

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taking you further and further and further away from maybe the calling that was on your life. Absolutely. And so often when people are

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in the business world or starting something, there's this whole other side of them that they put on hold and they

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don't they don't deal with, right? They they can't talk about their feelings. They just have to push and push and push.

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And I've heard you talk a lot about confession and vulnerability, not only today, but as you go around and share.

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And there is something that happens that's so freeing and actually helps people become the best version of

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themselves as they're willing to be vulnerable. I don't know what advice you give people because that's hard and it

Advice To People Holding Onto The Pain

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takes time and sometimes it's just it takes so much strength and courage that

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somebody can't actually be vulnerable about a situation, right? They they didn't have the strength or the freedom

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to do it. What advice do you give to people who are just holding on to something so heavy like you were on

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multiple things? Wow, that's a it's such a great question, Chris. Um, I'll do my

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best to um just kind of go into that for a little minute. It It's hard to be transparent. Uhhuh.

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Right. That's what we think. It is very difficult. Like when I went to tell Jonas my secret,

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I I'm I'm like 90 pounds. There's nothing inside of me to talk about

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anymore. I don't even know how to talk. Um but somehow within me I had the

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courage to do that very very hard thing and that's exactly what all of us face.

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Um you know when we're carrying it's hard to be transparent but let me tell

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you Chris it's much harder to carry your

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your past your the thing that bugs you the thing that bothers you that you wake up with that you live with every single

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day. It's like a ball and chain that you're dragging to work every single day, hoping and wishing that nobody ever

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really finds out about this or that or whatever it is that is making you feel

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so defeated on the inside. And then you have to work through all of that defeat and you have to go to your office, to

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your people, to your business place and put on the smile and pretend that everything is okay. That's hard. How do

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I know that? is because that's what I did. So, we had a five-year moment in

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time from the time I told Jonas until we had this opportunity. We weren't even

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looking for a store to a a farmers market store. Five years. And it was

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during those five years that Jonas was studying psychology and and doing marriage counseling. And that became our

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journey. Like he would talk to me about what he's learning and then we'd begin to change our behaviors. And slowly,

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slowly but surely, we're beginning to walk in the light together as a couple.

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But when I started Auntie's, I still had this, not many people knew about our story. And I had this terrible feeling

Starting Auntie Anne's

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that if people really knew now I'm starting to, we had two stores. The first year we opened, next year there

24:12
was 12 more. the following 35 more stores and the following year maybe 50 I don't remember exactly but we kept

24:19
growing every single year and with every year this this this not in my stomach

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it's the I my husband knew I wasn't trying to keep it a secret you know it really but I was afraid that people

24:33
would find out about me my story and they would I I don't know I

24:39
I just thought they probably wouldn't like me or or maybe they'd leave the I don't know, but it was a horrible thing

24:44
to try to live with this unknown because I had never really dealt with what the

24:50
abuse did to me. And so,

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it's hard for me to this is such a big and a deep subject, but freeing yourself,

25:02
there's there's a verse in the Bible. It's really simple. It says, "Free yourself like a gazelle from the hunter

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and like a bird from the snare of the fowler. It's like it's a struggle to do this. Like you're thinking right now, oh

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man, I can't tell anybody this. I'm so Yes, you can. And when you do, you begin

25:22
to free yourself. And when you go to work every day with this this this

25:30
struggle, this you're somebody else on the inside. My counselor told me many years later, work on the internal part

25:37
of your life and the external part. The external part is what people see. They all thought I was really successful and

25:43
I'm really amazing on the inside. I'm like, "No, I'm not amazing. You have no

25:49
idea how I feel, how I'm struggling." So, his advice to me was, you bring the

25:55
internal and the external, you bring it together to where that the internal of

26:00
your life is the very same as the external part of your life. Now, let me tell you, Chris, that's a journey.

26:07
That's a journey. That became my journey. Wow. And and that continued to be your

26:14
journey and still is as you go around and inspire millions of people through your story, right? And it's it's cool to

26:19
hear that story. I'd be curious um how do you feel like Jonas who was getting

Anne's Husband's Response

26:25
this information and people who are listening might be in a situation where people around them are really struggling

26:31
and they just don't know it. And at the same time when it comes he responded so

26:36
well which might not be the case for everyone listening but how do you think he displayed servant leadership and what

26:43
encouragement do you hope that people take away from him and how he responded in this case if they end up in a similar

26:49
situation. Wow. Servant leadership. Now, that's a whole other subject, right? Uh when he came home that night, uh and as

26:56
the things began to open up in the church where we were attending at that time, there began to be all this chitchat and, you know, it was bubbling

27:02
up and I'm I'm scared to death. And I told him one day, I said, "Hun, I I don't I don't want to go anywhere by

27:08
myself. Um I'm I'm afraid I'll get, you know, someone to come and talk to me." And he said to me, "Hun, don't worry

27:16
about doing this alone. uh we'll do this together. So if somebody wants to know what's going on

27:23
or you just tell them that I'm more than happy to talk about this, but I I don't want to talk about it unless Jonas is

27:30
with me. Well, you know, in that moment that was he was serving me. He was

27:37
protecting me. Uh when we started Auntie Anne's, same thing happened there. Like

27:42
when I felt overwhelmed and we started the company and day one, uh I'm standing

27:47
at the store and I'm thinking, "What in the world did I just do? I spent $6,000. I know

27:54
nothing about business." And I was there by myself and I get this bouquet of flowers, a man coming into the farmers

28:02
market. I'm seeing the bouquet of flowers. I'm like, "Wow, somebody's getting some flowers today. How nice it must be." I'm scared to death because

28:08
this was a a big jump for us, right? And the flower man just kept he came toward

28:13
my stand. This was bouquet of flowers from Jonas. And he in the the note on it

28:18
simply said, "Hun, I know that you can do this. I believe in you." You know,

Servant Leadership - Love The People And Give

28:25
servant leadership is really not that hard. I know there's books John Maxwell, I mean, hey, we all know what he's

28:32
written a hundred books on leadership, right? Um, servant leadership, I think

28:37
that we make it so difficult. And in my experience, it's simply for me was I

28:43
learned this on the farm with mom and dad. It's simply love other people

28:49
and give. Love other people and give. And so I took these this concept. I

28:55
mean, I didn't know it was a concept, but I took me into the business. They even as I was struggling with my past

29:02
from day one, I wanted to serve my employees. How did I do that? what I mean I have one little market stand but

29:09
every day that I went in there I would always say their name I'm so glad that you're here today thank you for coming

29:15
and helping me do this I don't know I was just grateful and I thank them and and recognize them as the company grew

29:21
Chris it didn't change just because we had 500 stores now u I'm still making my

29:28
rounds in our office putting my hand on their shoulder and saying hey listen without you I could not do this so

29:34
servant leadership I I think Jesus makes it very clear and very simple. It's just be kind. Put

29:43
others first ahead of your own interests. Um share the profits of your company. Maybe you can't do that right

29:49
now, but but bless them. Um share with them your time. Number one, your time

29:55
and your heart. And the way that they will open up to you if you start to tell your story, you know, you may say, you

30:02
may go to an employee say, you know, I've I don't know. I feel like you're feeling a little down today. I don't know. Is there is there anything that

30:09
you want to talk to me about? Let me tell you my story. Let me just tell you. And you begin to share your story with

30:15
your people. Over time, your whole office becomes transparent. And if there's anything

30:21
hidden in that office, like it's kind of stuck in the dark somewhere, the light automatically it shines on that to where

30:29
we had so many crazy experiences with employees that had problems, big problems in their families and

30:35
personally and struggles and they would tell me about them. That makes for a

30:40
very very healthy work environment. And I felt like at one point I told my

30:46
husband, "Hun, I never wanted to be a pastor, but am I supposed to be a pastor?" And I remember asking God that

30:52
one day I had made my rounds and I walked into my office. I threw my arms up and I said, "God," I was in tears,

30:59
"What is it you want me to be? A pastor, an evangelist."

31:04
And in that moment, I never heard God audibly, but I believe that we can notice when he, you know, he interrupts

Be Salt And Light

31:11
our thoughts. And this thought came to me in that moment and it it simply was an I want you to be salt and light.

31:20
And I'm like, what does that mean? Well, salt uh doesn't say a word. It makes

31:27
things tasty. Light doesn't speak, but it makes things visible. Antians became

31:34
our mission was to be light. Antians was created. We had two um our mission was

31:41
twofold. Number one was to be profitable so that we could be charitable and

L.I.G.H.T.

31:47
number two was to be light in the world of business. We took the word light and

31:52
did the acronym. L lead by example. I

31:58
invest in others employees. G give freely. Honor God. and t treat all

32:06
pisses contacts with respect. That sounds like a you know the the bar

32:11
was set pretty high as one of our team members at that time said and I said yeah we need to keep the bar really high

32:19
so that we have something to work towards every single day and to be light. Was it perfect? No. But did we

32:27
try? Were we aware of what Ante was all about? Yes. because we talked about it

32:32
in every meeting, every all employee meeting with our franchises. Anti-hands was created to be light and light became

32:39
the buzzword for all of our people and it became the the the grid that we used

32:45
to look through as we made decisions in our company. And then uh almost 20 years

32:51
later, Auntie Anne's sold the company and God took us from there and we used the proceeds of the sale and we built a

32:58
we built a 125 acre farm and our first 55,000 square foot building was a

33:05
counseling center had many different ministries in that building. But you

33:10
talk about the joy, the fulfillment that we felt as a couple, a young Amish

33:15
couple that knew nothing about business. I'm telling you,

33:21
all that God wants from us is a yes. And then he'll help us unload our

33:26
burdens so that we can truly feel the joy and feel lighthearted without all

33:33
these things just trying to keep us down. He wants us to be open, real,

33:39
transparent, honest, live in the light as he is in the light. And then we begin

33:44
to connect with each other in this place of light. Park test always separates and

33:49
gives us this big disconnect, but in the light we can become very connected.

33:55
Wow, that was so good. And I'm I'm curious throughout that journey because

10 Reasons That Kept It Successful

34:00
you alluded to obviously and everyone knows the success from the outside of Ants, but in that journey that you were

34:08
on, it was so crazy successful. Not just from a profit standpoint, but although

34:13
that sure as heck helped, but from a team member standpoint, from an expansion standpoint, from a product

34:19
standpoint, it feels like it just kept working. Um, why do you think it was

34:24
that everything just hit so well? Cuz you didn't set out to build a massive

34:29
empire. You didn't know where it was going. How did it keep working and how did we build it? You know, I I just I do have a

34:37
list of things here that I just maybe I should just go over a few of them. Yeah. And and you said working. Is there any way

34:44
that we can actually be successful without working hard, smart, wise,

34:50
perseverance? Listen, I learned all of that on the farm. And I wanted to hire people that could do the same at Antian.

34:58
And we had an had a culture that was

35:03
they just they worked for us. They worked. And I kept telling without them, we would never have gone to store number

35:09
two. So our employees built the company and yes so let me just so we're I just

35:16
have a list of thing 10 things that we did to start to grow and to man maintain anti-ands is to build a strong

35:22
foundation of of trust. So whenever you build anything it takes perseverance and wisdom every

35:31
time to build a foundation of trust. Well that sounds easy. We worked really hard at that. That mean that meant I had

35:37
to be trustworthy. Uh without trust, there's no foundation.

35:42
We hired people that knew a whole lot more than I did. Hallelujah. I mean, seriously, we know so little about

35:49
business. So, it's okay. It's important really to hire experts in the field and

35:54
and to find people that know more than you do. Maybe not hire them, but seek them out and talk to them, uh learn from

36:01
them. and we placed these experts in um in the positions that were best suited

36:06
for their strengths. There's really nothing worse than an employee in the wrong position. They're unhappy. They're

36:13
unfruitful. They're they they're just hard to be around. So, it's really

36:19
important to put people in the right place. Um also um there I I believe that

36:24
there are more people in management that actually should be leaders and there are many leaders that should be managers.

36:33
Not a right or wrong here but it's what what did God give us? What am I I I did

36:38
antihands for probably about eight years from 1988 to 1994

36:45
and I really thought that I was a manager. I never understood that I was a

36:50
leader and so therefore I was like in all the little details about every

36:56
little thing micromanaging and you know and I heard a speaker at one of our convention he talked about the

37:02
difference there is a difference and he read an article there's a difference between management and leadership and

37:09
when he read that that day Chris I'm sitting my chair and I'm thinking oh my

37:14
goodness I I'm a leader I I I'm not I shouldn't be a manager like I shouldn't

37:20
take care of all the wow the light bulb moment went out for me and if the anybody's interested in that uh article

37:26
you can find it it's called leadership uh there is a difference leadership

37:31
versus management it's really important as the owner of a company you may own a company and you may say I don't know

37:38
what am I leader or man and when I ask people this question very oft they're like they get this like puzzled look on

37:44
it you would think Chris with all the information that we read about leadership and management that that that

37:49
would be like a no-brainer, but it's still a puzzling part of uh leadership

37:55
and management in our in our uh business world. Um the discovery that I was in the people

38:02
business and I was not in the pretzel business. When you understand that your greatest assets are your people, not

38:09
your product. Wow, that's kind of I don't know. That could be a gig in the

38:15
heart here. I don't know. But I'm telling you, you know that Chris, right? That your people are your greatest

38:22
asset. And yet, we spend more time on the model, the marketing, the franchise,

38:28
all those things are important. And we neglect our people. That's what I'm saying. And then we created a mission

38:34
statement. I wanted it to be easy easy to be understood and to be memorized. We

38:40
built a management system about four or five years into the startup of Ant

38:46
Dance. We called it the green field system which basically was an open door policy. If employees have issues, we

38:54
encourage them to talk to each other. If at the end of the day they just can't do it, my door is open. The CEO's door was

39:01
open and we're going to talk about things. That was a turnaround in our c company. You don't go to the, you know,

39:07
the water cooler or the water fountain or the all these things and just gossip. We we really encourage people to be

39:13
open, honest, and transparent. And there in that that's walking in the light and then we'll find solutions. Um, so

39:20
anyway, we put a profitability plan in place for people to get excited about

39:25
being a part of Antians. We were always a private company, but we believed in giving, and that meant giving to our

39:30
employees. And uh and we also saw value like the value of fun. Don't be so I

39:36
mean we were growing so fast that everybody was so like goo you were just running around doing our working really

39:42
hard. Eventually we realized we have to have fun together and we did some of the the ridiculous things that I learned as

39:50
a kid. We took it into the office and we had Easter egg hunts. We had Valentine songs where we'd go around and sing

39:56
love. We we went to the malls for a whole day and I gave them some money to go shopping. We had fun together. And so

40:02
remember that. And there's a quote that I love. Uh it simply says um by uh the

40:08
president of Hart Shaner, the clothing one. He said, "Numbers are important, but there better be rich conversation,

40:15
laughter, and fun in your workplace." I know I said a lot right there. So

40:21
that is so good. In your process, I'm curious. You you decided to sell the

Advice On Selling The Company

40:26
company. Yes. And obviously did amazing good. uh with some of the proceeds.

40:32
How would you and how have you given advice to people when they're trying to figure out sell not sell especially

40:38
because you did create such a great culture through those values. Were you worried about it? Yes.

40:44
Changing the the culture of the company, the ethos, and how did you come to the selling decision

40:50
in all of that? Well, a couple of years it took me, you know, we had never even thought about um

40:55
selling the company. I was going to go to my grave being auntie and my gravestone would be auntie and here she

41:00
is you know twisted but hey here she lies anyway whatever you know and and

41:06
you know that I think it's good for us to know think about you know um tomorrow

41:12
might be a different day you know so uh to think about selling your company

41:17
especially a a founder I mean that that's just very difficult and I watched this is what really inspired me I

41:23
watched founders of other companies all the problems that they were having with their family members. They didn't know what to do. What do we do? You

41:30
know, do we do an Essop plan? Do we uh give it to our children? It's hard. And at one point in our

41:37
family, there's right today now there's 130 in my family. There are eight of us

41:43
kids. That's our children and our grandchildren and their spouses. So 130 of us. Back in the day, there was 30 of

41:49
my family members at one point that were involved in the business. either they were franchises or they worked in a in

41:55
in corporate and so I always had this uh like wow you know I mean I want my

42:03
family to to be happy and I want to please them as as as their I don't know

42:08
it it was difficult so I think that I began to think about how how do we want to do this as I

42:14
watched other people struggling with staying at their companies too long and

42:20
so Jonas and I started talking about it We of course prayed about it because faith has always been a part of our journey and we we brought in other

42:27
people to kind of guide us in this and sure enough at the age of 50 f uh 55

42:35
um we sold the company and that's a whole it's in my book it's called overcome and lead and even sometimes we

42:42
we think that because we're successful we've overcome not true no I think that

42:48
we overcome more and more and more as we lead if we want to grow and I have to

42:54
tell you Antians grew me up professionally u financially of course

43:00
emotionally spiritually and personally and as leaders we have to grow and when

43:06
I realized that it was time for us to sell I'm telling you the day we sold and

43:12
settled I went home and sat in my chair at my house I cried my eyes out like why

43:18
did we do this in that moment again I felt this voice inside of me say, "You

43:24
can never go back there." And my business was three minutes from my house. I'm like, "Oh, wow." I thought,

43:33
you know, I'm close. I'll stop by and see how everyone's doing. But immediately, Holy Spirit downloaded to

43:39
me. If you go back there, you're always going to wonder what's going on. And people will always tell you how they

43:45
don't like the new boss or how you know from that day to this day I've never

43:50
gone back unless I was invited. I think it was an honor. It for me it

43:56
was to honor the new owner. And the the good news for us in selling at that time

44:01
was I sold the company to my second cousin who had been a part of Antians

44:08
from almost day one. He grew up in the Amish culture. He knew what our mission was. not an Amish. Both of us not Amish

44:15
at that time, but we understood each other's each other because of the culture that we grew up in. So when I

44:21
sold to him, he and the banks bought Auntie's um outright privately and he became the new owner and five and a half

44:27
years later he sold it to a conglomerate out of uh Atlanta, Georgia.

44:33
So when you let go and when you sell, you have to resolve that in your heart. I can't go back. I'm not the owner. I'm

44:40
not the boss. And so as employees came to me and they talked about I would always take them, you know, I'm really

44:46
sorry that you feel that way. I do understand he's not me. He never could be and I knew that, you

44:54
know, when we sold, but you know what you can do as an employee. You can still be a great employee. You can still be

45:01
who you you were taught to be and uh you can still be a part of Ants and just um

45:08
just grow up in this way. You know, we be we become we need to become mature in the business world. We need maturity,

45:14
let me tell you. Wow. Well, I want to finish with 10

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

45:21
rapid fire questions where I'm going to ask you something and you just say the first thing that comes

45:26
to mind. We'll go to the next one. Oh, well. So, who's the first person you think of

45:32
when I say servant leadership? I think of a man by the name of Dr.

45:40
Richard Dobbins. He was a counselor. Served his people well. Five words that most describe you.

45:46
Oh, well, that's crazy. Insecure. Some of

45:52
these words are words that I've experienced throughout my life. Insecure. I don't know anything. You're

45:57
better than I am. Okay. And then maybe um you know, I I have wisdom. I'm common

46:03
sense. and I'll learn. Those are good. Favorite book?

46:10
The Bible. Favorite food. An Amish meal. Roast beef, mashed

46:16
potatoes, and corn. Love it. Favorite thing to do in your

46:21
free time? Read be with my kids or go on a road trip with my husband. Uh used to be

46:27
motorcycles all we did 30 years of motorcycles on trips. That was one of my

46:32
things I did a lot all the time. Wow. Maybe that fits this next one. Or maybe there's something different.

46:38
Surprising fact about you. Oh, that I went from a horse and buggy to a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.

46:47
That there should be a book on that. Just just that. Yeah. Uh favorite place you've been?

46:54
The Philippines. Is there anywhere you want to go that

46:59
you have not been to yet? Germany for a couple of weeks there that it's my roots are there.

47:05
Wow. All right. Last two. What's the best advice you've ever received?

47:11
Uh from my husband when I was very frustrated. He said, "Hun, just be the

47:17
very best that you can be. There's no one in the whole wide world that God has called to be Auntie Anne. You're called,

47:25
so just become the very best that you can be." And that's great advice.

47:30
from my husband. And finally, why do you think a podcast on servant leadership is important?

Importance Of A Servant Leadership Podcast

47:37
Oh, wow. I think for our day and time, it's very important. Uh because as as

47:43
business people, we're always thinking about more and we're not thinking about the power of

47:50
serving our people. That is actually the more servant leadership needs to be

47:55
taught. It needs to be seen. uh in the workplace and we need to emanate that. I

48:03
want to serve you because that's really the way to grow. Wow.

Closing

48:09
Well, Ann, I just want to say thank you um from the bottom of my heart. I'm so

48:14
thankful for your willingness to open up about such hard times in your life. Uh

48:20
but also, it's so cool to see how God restored so much that was broken and

48:25
lost for his glory. Um, your story is just amazing and thank you for sharing it.

48:30
It's my pleasure and I love telling the story going from darkness to light. I live in that light every single day

48:35
today and I feel truly uh like it is a supernatural thing and I can never ever

48:42
go back to the darkness. The light is a beautiful place to live. Thank you so much. If people want to follow the cool stuff

48:49
that you're up to now, what's the best thing that they should do? uh just go to antianer.com and the all the information

48:56
is there. We have the books there. We have where I'm going to be speaking and the podcasts are there. Um it'll give

49:02
you what you need. Well, thank you and we'll make sure to include links in the descriptions for others who are interested in learning

49:08
more as well. Wonderful. Thank you, Chris. I really enjoyed our time together. Thank you for listening to this episode

49:13
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment

49:20
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49:26
update. Be sure to check out the servant leadership podcast.org for more updates and additional bonus content.