00:00:00
Sex for sale is minimized. It's

00:00:01
normalized. And then people either

00:00:03
become victims or buyers. And that's

00:00:05
what we're dealing with with our kids.

00:00:13
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

00:00:15
we welcome Rebecca Bender. Rebecca is a

00:00:17
survivor of human trafficking. She has

00:00:20
used her story of transformation to

00:00:21
inspire people around the world. After

00:00:23
escaping her traffickers, she rebuilt

00:00:25
from nothing, eventually founding the

00:00:27
Rebecca Bender Initiative and Elevate

00:00:29
Academy, the largest online school for

00:00:31
survivors. Rebecca has been a part of

00:00:33
training more than 100,000 law

00:00:35
enforcement professionals, and shares

00:00:37
how servant leadership starts with

00:00:38
empathy and persistence. Join us as

00:00:40
Rebecca shares what it's really like to

00:00:42
start over after trauma and how to find

00:00:44
your purpose after hitting rock bottom.

00:00:46
Rebecca, thank you for being on the

00:00:48
Servant Leadership Podcast.

00:00:50
Thank you for having me. I am thrilled

00:00:53
for our audience to get to know you and

00:00:55
your story because it is one of

00:00:58
resilience and a lot of unexpected

00:01:02
turns. I would love for you to just

00:01:04
start with sharing a little bit about

00:01:06
your story.

00:01:07
Well, I I am a survivor of human

00:01:09
trafficking. Usually when I tell people

00:01:11
that they say, "Oh, like the movie

00:01:13
Taken?" And I go, "Well, kind of."

00:01:15
Except I wasn't pulled out by one leg

00:01:17
while gripping at the carpet from under

00:01:19
the bed. And my dad did not have a

00:01:21
special set of skills to come find me.

00:01:23
But I was um a kid from a small town in

00:01:27
Oregon. I grew up really normal middle

00:01:29
class family, bluecollar. My dad worked

00:01:32
at the local lumber mill, pulled green

00:01:33
chain, and um I ended up graduating high

00:01:36
school a year early. I was a varsity

00:01:38
athlete, an honor roll student. Um and

00:01:41
then I I had a daughter uh right after

00:01:44
high school. And I still ended up moving

00:01:46
up to my college town with friends after

00:01:48
they got out of their dorm rooms and got

00:01:51
to stay in the extra bedroom in the

00:01:53
apartment. And that's when a lot of

00:01:56
vulnerabilities from my childhood came

00:01:57
up. I didn't have huge big tea traumas

00:02:00
as a child, but I had I think all of us

00:02:02
have a little something, right? And my

00:02:04
parents divorced when I was little and

00:02:07
just kind of grew up feeling kind of

00:02:08
alone. Learned to mask that by just

00:02:11
getting involved in lots of things. So

00:02:13
really an active kind of gregarious

00:02:15
young kid. But when I got off to college

00:02:17
and I had a a kid, it was really hard to

00:02:21
use that coping mechanism of staying

00:02:23
busy because now, you know, you're a mom

00:02:24
and you're trying to figure out a new

00:02:26
town and school and work and all the

00:02:28
things. Um, and that's when I met a guy

00:02:31
who pretended to have all the answers. I

00:02:34
just thought like any meeting anybody on

00:02:36
a college campus, I just thought he was

00:02:39
um wanting to date me. and we started

00:02:41
dating and it it went we say any red

00:02:45
flag uh any attempt to fasttrack a

00:02:47
relationship is a red flag and after

00:02:49
about 6 months of dating he invited me

00:02:51
to move in with him and I thought this

00:02:53
was it. I was going to get married have

00:02:55
a white picket fence dog named Spot and

00:02:57
everything would be great. Um but it

00:03:00
ended up that he was a trafficker and he

00:03:03
was not who he said he was. The the

00:03:06
complete epitome of fraud.

00:03:09
Uh we moved to another city when he told

00:03:11
me his job was relocating him and he

00:03:14
ended up um basically using my daughter

00:03:16
against me and forcing me into human

00:03:18
trafficking. And I remember thinking

00:03:21
like how did I get here? How's a good

00:03:24
kid from a good home? Like how did I get

00:03:26
here? I was so embarrassed to tell

00:03:29
anybody what had happened. Um was

00:03:32
ashamed and embarrassed. And so I just

00:03:35
thought it would be better the next day.

00:03:37
You know, I thought tomorrow it'll be

00:03:38
better. Tomorrow we'll go back to being

00:03:40
hopeful and excited about my future. And

00:03:43
tomorrow never came. And unfortunately,

00:03:46
over six years, I end up um getting like

00:03:49
bought and sold between three different

00:03:50
traffickers. I was hospitalized for

00:03:53
dehydration and overexhaustion. Had my

00:03:56
face broken in multiple places. Um

00:03:59
became very hopeless. By 21, I was a

00:04:01
full-blown addict. And I just thought I

00:04:05
I was just extremely hopeless. I thought

00:04:07
I wanted to die. Um, thankfully in ' 06

00:04:10
the feds raided our home and my traff of

00:04:13
my traffickers homes and allowed us an

00:04:15
avenue for escape. Um, it wasn't like

00:04:17
the movies unfortunately. Two of the

00:04:19
women were sent to prison for tax

00:04:21
evasion because our trafficker put

00:04:23
everything in our socials and not his

00:04:24
own in order to keep his hands clean.

00:04:27
And um, and I started over with nothing.

00:04:30
Right back to the same vulnerabilities

00:04:31
that got me trafficked in the first

00:04:33
place, being a single mom trying to

00:04:34
figure out life. But now it was

00:04:36
compounded with a whole bunch of trauma,

00:04:38
PTSD, and a lot of barriers to re-entry.

00:04:41
I had a criminal record. I had a gap in

00:04:43
job history. Didn't really have what I

00:04:45
felt like a good resume, you know, to

00:04:46
build skills or anything. And and I

00:04:49
remember kind of sitting in my my

00:04:51
government subsidized apartment, my very

00:04:53
first apartment, and thinking, now what?

00:04:56
What am I going to do with the rest of

00:04:57
my life? So that's how I got to where

00:05:00
that was my start.

00:05:02
Wow. That is such a crazy journey. And

00:05:06
it's interesting because now you can

00:05:08
look back and there's a lot of fruit

00:05:09
that we're going to talk about that has

00:05:10
come from it. But in the moment, a lot

00:05:13
of people think

00:05:15
once you're free, it's probably onwards

00:05:18
and upwards and easy. You know, life

00:05:19
gets easy. And your experience was not

00:05:21
necessarily easy. Uh, I'd be curious to

00:05:24
hear what was it like when you started

00:05:27
sharing your experience with people and

00:05:29
how long did it take before you started

00:05:31
sharing all of the stuff that you went

00:05:33
through.

00:05:34
Yeah, it's such a great point, Chris,

00:05:36
because most people think once you

00:05:37
escape that, you know, everything

00:05:40
magically falls together, and that's

00:05:42
just not the reality of life. I remember

00:05:45
going from sleeping on couches with my

00:05:47
daughter at families to finally getting

00:05:50
into our our first government apartment

00:05:53
and I had a mattress from Craigslist on

00:05:55
the floor that I shared with her and a

00:05:57
pot and pan from Goodwill for0 50 cents

00:05:59
and a kitchen table from a yard sale.

00:06:01
That's how I started. And I remember one

00:06:03
night sitting there and thinking this

00:06:05
sucks, you know, minimum wage job

00:06:07
because I didn't want to work anywhere

00:06:09
that did a background check. I was

00:06:10
really afraid of what my, you know,

00:06:12
community would think if they knew. Um,

00:06:14
I really just kept it hidden because I

00:06:17
was embarrassed and a lot of stigmas

00:06:19
around, you know, human trafficking is

00:06:22
is the cell of people. And so it's it's

00:06:24
there's a lot of stigmas there. And and

00:06:26
I was afraid that, you know, my

00:06:27
trafficker might find us if I if I went

00:06:29
too public. And so I was

00:06:31
just tried to be normal. just trying to

00:06:32
figure out like what is it like to be

00:06:34
normal again after six years of this

00:06:37
horrible trauma and seeing the worst of

00:06:39
humanity and how do you make friends?

00:06:41
How do you date? How do you you know my

00:06:43
I jokingly tongue and cheek say you know

00:06:46
my trafficker didn't teach me

00:06:47
leadership. So like how do you learn how

00:06:49
to be a good employee or a good manager?

00:06:51
It just felt like this huge learning

00:06:52
curve. And as I sat at my yard sale

00:06:55
kitchen table one night, I remember kind

00:06:58
of getting mad at God and saying, "Is

00:07:01
this freedom? Like this is the freedom

00:07:03
everyone talks about? Like this sucks,

00:07:05
too. Poverty isn't freedom." And and

00:07:07
living with not knowing what you're good

00:07:09
at or how to build anything just it

00:07:11
didn't feel freeing. It still felt like

00:07:14
still a still the trap that I was stuck

00:07:16
in. And I remember just having this

00:07:18
moment where I thought if I gave the

00:07:20
enemy the same amount of time I gave

00:07:21
God, he'll never be outdone.

00:07:24
And so I thought, "All right, I'm going

00:07:25
to dig my heels in for six years."

00:07:27
That's how long I was trafficked. But if

00:07:30
this ain't better, I'm out. That's what

00:07:31
I remember kind of praying. And um and

00:07:35
it was hard, but I I dug my heels in.

00:07:37
The first two years were really hard. um

00:07:39
worked a minimum wage job, got on food

00:07:41
stamps, started taking night classes,

00:07:44
and you know, you get your paycheck and

00:07:46
you you think, how do people do this?

00:07:48
How do you how do you put your life

00:07:49
together with minimal resources and zero

00:07:52
social capital? And um and then I

00:07:55
started having this feeling that I

00:07:56
couldn't I couldn't stay quiet any

00:07:58
longer. It was about two years and I

00:08:00
started feeling like I I can't do

00:08:02
nothing. I can't sit here with all this

00:08:04
information that trafficking is

00:08:05
happening in every community across the

00:08:08
country, even in small towns like

00:08:09
Eugene, Oregon. And um and say nothing.

00:08:13
And so I started sharing my story

00:08:15
anywhere where people would hear it. I I

00:08:17
jokingly say I'd share it in old folks

00:08:18
home if they let me on their lunch

00:08:20
breaks. You know, I'd share anywhere. I

00:08:22
didn't really know at first what like my

00:08:24
call to action would be. I just started

00:08:26
wanting to share my testimony, but still

00:08:27
keep my job and and it's definitely

00:08:30
grown from there. But that was kind of

00:08:31
the first start. First, I did it

00:08:33
anonymously or I'd take news from

00:08:35
without showing any photos or I'd use an

00:08:37
alias and then as my connections with

00:08:40
law enforcement has grown, I thought,

00:08:41
nah, I'm just I'm just going to go

00:08:43
public.

00:08:45
Well, as you started to go public, um,

00:08:48
and you bring up a really interesting

00:08:50
point, trafficking is everywhere. you

00:08:52
know, to somebody who lives in Chicago

00:08:56
land where I do, um, you kind of assume

00:08:59
trafficking is there a little bit, but

00:09:01
you also kind of assume it's not really

00:09:04
happening, you know, just if you don't

00:09:06
know about it. And as you've gone and

00:09:07
spoken on this uh, and shared your

00:09:09
story, how have you realized how

00:09:12
pervasive trafficking really is?

00:09:16
I mean, trafficking exists in every

00:09:18
single community across America. It's,

00:09:20
you know, there's 25 different types of

00:09:22
human trafficking in America alone. 87%

00:09:25
of victims are US citizens. Less than 1%

00:09:28
is stranger abduction. That's usually

00:09:30
people they know and trust. Um, so we

00:09:32
can't just teach our kids, you know,

00:09:34
look out for the the guy that's offering

00:09:36
you puppy in a candy from a white

00:09:37
minivan. Although stranger danger is

00:09:39
obviously very important, but that's not

00:09:41
trafficking. It's very rarely stranger

00:09:43
abduction. Um, you got to be more

00:09:45
careful with who your kids are talking

00:09:46
to online, who they're gaming with. um

00:09:49
the slow lure in recruitment is much

00:09:51
more common. But what I think most

00:09:54
people don't realize is there's there's

00:09:55
even with within those 25 the most

00:09:57
common like six are going to be familial

00:10:00
trafficking, gang trafficking, elicit

00:10:03
massage parlors, um street level, um

00:10:06
cantas. There's trafficking looks really

00:10:09
different based on the culture and

00:10:10
community in which you live. And so if

00:10:13
if you know where vulnerable people

00:10:14
exist in your neighborhoods, uh

00:10:16
traffickers do too. and they're going to

00:10:18
take advantage of people's

00:10:19
vulnerabilities and exploit it. And

00:10:21
that's that's trafficking, which means

00:10:22
it's everywhere because vulnerable

00:10:23
people are everywhere.

00:10:25
Wow. Well, at some point you kind of

00:10:28
transitioned maybe in your own mind from

00:10:31
just being a survivor to being a

00:10:33
survivor that really had some

00:10:35
significant leadership opportunities.

00:10:37
Uh, and I I know you didn't know how it

00:10:39
would play out, but talk about what has

00:10:43
come up since then and how you've been

00:10:45
able to do some amazing things in this

00:10:47
industry.

00:10:49
Yeah, I started, you know, after I got

00:10:51
my first job, I I started my own company

00:10:54
after that, doing ultrasounds at an

00:10:56
elective 3D ultrasound center and kind

00:10:59
of always had a little bit of an

00:11:00
entrepreneurial gift, but I think when

00:11:02
you've been through so much trauma,

00:11:04
people don't tell you what you're good

00:11:05
at a lot, right? when you're when you're

00:11:07
being trafficked, no one's telling you,

00:11:09
"Hey, you're funny. Hey, you're smart.

00:11:10
Hey, you're good at math." Whatever it

00:11:12
is, no one's pulling out the gold in

00:11:14
you. You're kind of your gifts are

00:11:15
minimized and hidden and never tapped

00:11:17
into. And so, although I felt like I got

00:11:19
maybe a little bit later start in life

00:11:21
because those formative years for most

00:11:23
people's careers um are kind of stolen

00:11:26
from you as a survivor, but nonetheless,

00:11:29
I still had those gifts and they still

00:11:31
started to develop and flourish. And as

00:11:34
I started sharing my story, I realized I

00:11:36
needed there to be a call to action. I

00:11:38
didn't want to just tell a Saab story. I

00:11:40
wanted us to find actionable items to do

00:11:43
in communities. And and so I created a

00:11:46
law enforcement training specifically

00:11:49
that would help undercover cops kind of

00:11:51
know what to look for and how to

00:11:53
investigate and talk to victims better

00:11:54
because I knew what happened with my

00:11:55
case. No one would talk. Everyone was

00:11:57
too afraid. Victims went to prison. It

00:11:59
wasn't a good outcome. And and so I I

00:12:03
created this training and it just blew

00:12:05
up. And now year to date, we've trained

00:12:07
I've I've trained over 148,000 law

00:12:10
enforcement officers all over the world.

00:12:12
Um different undercover units, FBI,

00:12:15
Homeland Security, um everything that

00:12:18
works and intercepts within the human

00:12:20
trafficking world. I testify at trials

00:12:22
all over the country. So we we train US

00:12:24
attorneys and district attorneys and

00:12:26
judicial conferences. And um I've really

00:12:30
enjoyed being able to make a difference

00:12:32
in our criminal justice system and the

00:12:34
way these cases are investigated and

00:12:35
prosecuted. Um I've seen so many shifts

00:12:38
in the 16 years I've been doing this

00:12:40
work now. I've seen a lot of communities

00:12:42
and I've seen trafficking in every

00:12:44
community all over the country. But it's

00:12:46
been so neat to see so much momentum

00:12:48
with let's do this differently and let's

00:12:50
do this better. And you see a lot of

00:12:52
reform. But from there, we also started

00:12:54
having survivors reach out and say, "How

00:12:56
did you do that?" Like, "How did you

00:12:58
turn your story into action?" And um at

00:13:01
the time, I was finishing my master's

00:13:03
degree online. And I remember one day

00:13:05
thinking, if I can get a master's

00:13:07
online, I could mentor online. And this

00:13:09
was way pre-COVID, so online stuff

00:13:11
wasn't nearly as common. Um, and so I

00:13:14
created an online school to help

00:13:16
survivors figure out their now what and

00:13:18
help them find purpose with their story

00:13:20
and their specialty and based on their

00:13:22
lived experience. And we created Elevate

00:13:24
Academy. It's now the world's largest

00:13:26
online school in the world for um the

00:13:28
world's largest online school for

00:13:30
survivors of trafficking with 1,800

00:13:32
students spanning 800 US cities and 27

00:13:35
countries. Uh where survivors are using

00:13:37
their lived experience to make a

00:13:39
difference in your neighborhood. They're

00:13:41
they're talking to your kids at high

00:13:42
school. They're showing up at your

00:13:44
state's capital to lobby for a bill. Um,

00:13:46
and it's rippling out so that not only

00:13:48
is it changing their life and their

00:13:49
children's life, but it's changing the

00:13:51
communities in which they live.

00:13:53
Wow, that's amazing. Uh, we often talk

00:13:57
about servant leadership and just the

00:13:59
concept of the differences between

00:14:01
leadership and servant leadership. Um,

00:14:04
as people listen to this, some might

00:14:06
really resonate with, wow, I want to get

00:14:09
involved. they need the help or they

00:14:11
want to get involved in stopping this.

00:14:13
And on the flip side, some people might

00:14:14
be like, I've never bumped into human

00:14:17
trafficking. But I think a lot of people

00:14:19
can relate to hitting rock bottom and

00:14:21
starting over. So either way, there's so

00:14:23
many different ways that somebody might

00:14:25
be listening to you share your story.

00:14:28
How do you see servant leadership

00:14:30
playing out in terms of when you're

00:14:32
helping people get out of rock bottom?

00:14:36
So true. I think, you know, most people

00:14:38
might not relate with being trafficked,

00:14:40
like you said, but everybody can relate

00:14:42
with feeling like they've had to start

00:14:45
over, maybe a career change or a door

00:14:47
shut. I think everybody can relate with

00:14:49
feeling betrayed by somebody they've

00:14:50
trusted at least one point in their

00:14:52
life. Um, they can relate with feeling

00:14:54
embarrassed or ashamed of a decision

00:14:55
they've made or something they've said.

00:14:57
Might not be to the extreme that we see

00:14:59
this topic, but everyone can somewhat

00:15:01
relate with that moment of like, how do

00:15:03
I how do I turn the page in my life?

00:15:06
Maybe it's divorce or illness or a job

00:15:08
loss. Everyone's been at a moment to

00:15:10
kind of rebuild. And and I think that's

00:15:13
the part that makes us a lot more alike

00:15:15
than we are different. And to me, that's

00:15:17
a part of servant leadership because you

00:15:19
have to you have to have empathy. You

00:15:21
have to remember when you're when you're

00:15:23
working with people or you're raising up

00:15:24
leaders or you're help coaching or

00:15:26
mentoring, you got to kind of remember

00:15:28
what it's like to to be somewhat in

00:15:31
their shoes. Even if you can't relate

00:15:32
exactly, there are moments you can

00:15:34
identify with. and how do you pull out

00:15:36
that gold in them? How do you how do you

00:15:39
serve them in a way that's going to help

00:15:40
them build to the next and and build

00:15:42
towards their their purpose? So, if

00:15:44
somebody's listening to this and this is

00:15:48
one of those topics that it's everyone

00:15:50
puts on a happy face and wants their

00:15:52
life to maybe look better than it is,

00:15:54
you know, and and they want people to

00:15:56
think of them a certain way and and that

00:15:58
might be too general thinking, but how

00:16:01
do you think people should be stepping

00:16:02
into things where it's like, gosh, you

00:16:04
probably know somebody who's been

00:16:05
affected by this or who is in a

00:16:07
situation where they're starting over,

00:16:09
but you don't even realize it. How do

00:16:11
you step in and care for people? Well,

00:16:13
what steps should somebody take?

00:16:16
I think building relationship is always

00:16:18
crucial in any situation, right? It's

00:16:20
hard to to make a to withdraw from a

00:16:23
bank that has no deposits. And so, if

00:16:26
you're going to help guide somebody, if

00:16:28
you're going to um help mentor them,

00:16:30
which oftentimes means giving them

00:16:31
advice or sometimes correction or or

00:16:34
just, hey, maybe you shouldn't do that.

00:16:36
Um it's easier to hear that feedback if

00:16:39
someone has made deposits into your

00:16:41
life. And so you have to start by making

00:16:43
sure to build intentional relationship

00:16:45
with people. Um pour out, you know,

00:16:48
highlight their good qualities. Uh open

00:16:51
a door for you for them when you can

00:16:53
connect them to somebody that might help

00:16:54
with their purpose. And and as you

00:16:57
continue to build relationship and you

00:16:58
have that connection, you'll be able to

00:17:01
they're going to open up more and more

00:17:03
about things that are happening in their

00:17:04
life and ways that you can maybe give

00:17:06
some advice and tips on on how to

00:17:08
continue to grow. We tell survivors all

00:17:11
the time, you know, living through a

00:17:13
fire doesn't make you an arson expert.

00:17:15
Um, but so there are ways to continue to

00:17:18
grow and actually become an expert. Go

00:17:19
to school, get some education, and

00:17:21
figure out how to be an expert in this

00:17:22
field as well. But also, you're you're

00:17:24
going to smell like smoke, and that's

00:17:25
okay. Like, it's it's okay to say, when

00:17:28
I first started our nonprofit, I had no

00:17:30
clue that director of development was

00:17:32
even a position. Like, I had no clue.

00:17:34
I'm like, "Oh, that's a thing. Who is

00:17:36
there like a degree for that? Who go,

00:17:37
you know, I didn't know." and and my

00:17:40
learning curve um to figure out how to

00:17:43
create a nonprofit, how to find the

00:17:45
board, how to develop programs and

00:17:47
systems and SOPs and the tech stack. And

00:17:49
it's been such a learning curve. And I

00:17:52
had to be okay saying, I don't know how

00:17:53
to do this. Do you know anybody that can

00:17:55
help me with XYZ because you're not

00:17:57
learning that when you're when you're

00:17:59
coming out of trauma. No one's teaching

00:18:00
you some of those kind of nonprofit

00:18:03
specifics. I didn't even know you had to

00:18:04
call a board meeting to order. Like I

00:18:06
didn't I literally knew nothing. And

00:18:07
thank goodness for my board that came

00:18:10
around me was like, "Okay, let's rethink

00:18:12
this." And we've had some great partners

00:18:14
and and corporate partners that have

00:18:16
said like, "Hey, we'll give survivors

00:18:17
jobs in this community. If you have

00:18:19
people that are coming out of your

00:18:20
school and they're job ready, we've got

00:18:21
a couple openings. We we'd love to help

00:18:23
make sure they get a job after Escape."

00:18:25
And those type of corporate partnerships

00:18:27
have been huge um to just give people a

00:18:29
chance to build get something on their

00:18:31
resume and and pour into them even, you

00:18:34
know, even if it's just employment. like

00:18:35
we we love those kind of connections.

00:18:38
Yeah. I as I'm thinking as you're

00:18:41
talking, I think every single person

00:18:44
listening to this has been burned at

00:18:45
some point in their life. Obviously,

00:18:47
maybe not to the extent that you and

00:18:49
many survivors have, but but some have

00:18:52
been burned in really hard ways. As

00:18:55
somebody has been in that situation, how

00:18:57
do they even step into now learning how

00:18:59
to trust people? because it feels like

00:19:01
such a big jump where you're jumping

00:19:04
into a situation where it's like you

00:19:05
didn't know any of that, but you also

00:19:07
have been burned through a lot of uh

00:19:10
loss of trust from people who you were

00:19:12
close with.

00:19:13
Such a great question. I get I've been

00:19:16
asked this a few times. So, it's

00:19:17
interesting that people are interested

00:19:18
in this because I I don't ever think

00:19:21
about how did how do you do that when

00:19:24
but you know it is I think when I'm

00:19:26
rebuilding trust for me I I just also

00:19:30
remembered like I had a really great

00:19:31
grandpa and I had a really good uncle

00:19:34
and and I knew that good men existed. um

00:19:37
they may have been few and far between

00:19:39
from the world that I had been in, but

00:19:41
that wasn't all of our world. And

00:19:44
anytime you can build connection and

00:19:46
friendship and mentoring and partnership

00:19:48
where someone doesn't want anything in

00:19:51
return, um it rebuilds that little link

00:19:53
of trust every single day for me. and

00:19:56
and so the more more vulnerable and

00:19:58
transparent I can be to just be myself

00:20:00
and trust that people will reciprocate

00:20:02
that um the easier it is to just just be

00:20:05
me and and believe that the best is

00:20:06
going to happen and and to be empathetic

00:20:08
like also to remember everyone's a

00:20:10
human. No one's going to, you know,

00:20:12
sometimes you're in a business

00:20:13
partnership and they make a decision you

00:20:15
that you feel, you know, maybe they

00:20:17
slided you on and and I' I've been in

00:20:19
many of those situations and you just

00:20:22
got to remember, you know, they did the

00:20:23
best they could in the moment they had

00:20:24
to make a decision with the emotions

00:20:26
they have and their past experience and

00:20:28
and you move on and you're like, "Yeah,

00:20:30
you know what? No one's going to die.

00:20:31
We're going to be okay." That's become

00:20:33
my mantra. No one's going to die. We're

00:20:34
going to be okay. And other things will

00:20:38
come back to you. just keep doing what

00:20:40
you know is right and and like you know

00:20:42
I heard actually it was um Steve Ferdick

00:20:46
once a long time ago on a podcast say um

00:20:49
never burn a bridge but check the weight

00:20:51
limit and I thought even if I do get

00:20:54
slighted or betrayed I might not go in

00:20:55
business with them again I might have to

00:20:57
check that weight limit on that

00:20:58
connection um but I'm not going to burn

00:21:00
the bridge right and it doesn't mean

00:21:02
everyone's going to burn you and there

00:21:03
are a lot of great people so just find

00:21:05
your people and stick with them and and

00:21:07
keep trusting everyone's just doing

00:21:08
their best they Can I don't think a lot

00:21:09
of unless you are a predator, not very

00:21:13
few betrayals are intentional.

00:21:15
Yeah.

00:21:15
Right. Very few.

00:21:18
With all the things you've been doing,

00:21:19
you've been able to train so many

00:21:22
different law enforcement agencies and

00:21:24
people in law enforcement and then with

00:21:26
the academy, you've been able to help so

00:21:27
many survivors as you've tried to build

00:21:30
both of those things. That is pretty

00:21:33
complex. What are some of the big

00:21:34
challenges as a leader that you're that

00:21:37
you have bumped into and how have you

00:21:39
overcome them through just the knowledge

00:21:41
you've learned over the years?

00:21:43
Yeah, I mean breaking into industries I

00:21:45
knew nothing about was always, you know,

00:21:48
you got to be a you got to be a student

00:21:50
at all times. You're trying to learn

00:21:52
industries and figure out how they work

00:21:54
and and learning to pivot real quick

00:21:56
when maybe things aren't necessarily how

00:21:59
you thought they were supposed to go.

00:22:01
Um,

00:22:03
one of my books I was able to get it

00:22:04
sold to Showtime and was being turned

00:22:06
into a TV series. So, I mean, I've been

00:22:08
able to break into some industries that

00:22:09
I have no social capital. And it really

00:22:12
all started as being a student and just

00:22:15
really like how does the federal

00:22:16
government work? Who are the

00:22:18
departments? How do they get funding so

00:22:20
we can get contracts? You know, goo

00:22:23
looking up what is an RFP? How do I put

00:22:25
one in? You know, all of that stuff.

00:22:27
What do they want to know? What are they

00:22:29
missing? What do we feel like when I go

00:22:32
to conferences and I just sit in on a

00:22:33
session when they leave? Can I stand

00:22:36
next to them in the buffet lunch line

00:22:37
and say, "What's something you haven't

00:22:39
got to learn yet while you're here?" And

00:22:41
then they'll tell you, you know, I wish

00:22:42
they would have done a session on A, B,

00:22:43
and C. Well, guess what? I go back and

00:22:45
make a session on A, B, and C. So, it's

00:22:47
it's asking lots of questions, being a

00:22:49
student. Same with building a school. I

00:22:52
knew nothing about a tech stack. Um, you

00:22:54
know, I run run an online school and I

00:22:56
just more in the last couple years have

00:22:58
finally a really good tech stack, but it

00:23:00
was just a lot of trial and error in the

00:23:01
beginning like, well, does Mailchimp

00:23:03
talk to E Teachable and does, you know,

00:23:07
like do they zap that in with Zapier?

00:23:10
Like it was just like learning all this

00:23:12
language of how can I just get an hour

00:23:14
with someone in tech and pick their

00:23:16
brain on what I'm looking for and how to

00:23:18
put this together. And so I think just

00:23:19
really constantly admitting what you

00:23:21
don't know and trying to learn even with

00:23:24
try, you know, getting our TV show u at

00:23:26
least the pilot made. I took a TV

00:23:28
writer's class. I Skyped in. I took a TV

00:23:30
writer's class. I And I started putting

00:23:33
the dream out there. Instead of every

00:23:35
time I came to LA, instead of saying,

00:23:37
you know, I'm here training LA's

00:23:38
undercover unit, which I had a contract

00:23:39
to do, and I was coming to Los Angeles

00:23:41
frequently, I started saying, I'm

00:23:43
working on a pilot and and I'm turning

00:23:46
my life story into a scripted TV drama.

00:23:48
And I just had you have to put the dream

00:23:50
out there. Um, and then, you know, one

00:23:53
leading would meet to another. Next

00:23:54
thing you know, it's I'm sitting in a

00:23:56
pitch meeting and getting bought by, you

00:23:58
know, major studio and a tele and an

00:24:00
network. And I thought, "This is crazy.

00:24:02
I don't even I'm a girl from Grants

00:24:04
Pass, Oregon. I showed up in my best

00:24:06
Ross dress for 1999 and walked into the

00:24:09
largest studios because of putting the

00:24:12
dream out there, one meeting leading to

00:24:14
another and and people being willing to

00:24:16
connect with you and take a chance on

00:24:18
you and and build a project with you. I

00:24:20
think because you're serving them and

00:24:22
you're you're always trying to learn. I

00:24:24
think that just builds trust. Um I think

00:24:26
it's all one big circle.

00:24:28
Yeah.

00:24:29
Well, you talked a little bit about some

00:24:32
misconceptions people have about

00:24:34
trafficking earlier and something that

00:24:36
stood out to me and I kind of want you

00:24:38
to repeat the stats because I'm still in

00:24:40
my mind processing like is did I hear

00:24:42
this right? that the majority of

00:24:44
trafficking happens from somebody where

00:24:47
someone knows the person that is

00:24:48
trafficking them.

00:24:50
Correct. Less than 1% of trafficking is

00:24:53
stranger abduction. That means 99.9%

00:24:57
of trafficking is somebody the victim

00:24:59
knows and trusts. At least they think

00:25:00
they know. It might be fraudulent. Like

00:25:02
in my ex, you know, in my experience, my

00:25:04
trafficker, he wasn't the age he said he

00:25:06
was. He had a huge criminal background I

00:25:08
didn't know about. He defrauded he fra

00:25:11
defrauded me to pretend just like a con

00:25:13
artist to be someone different than he

00:25:15
was. Um but he spent six months gaining

00:25:18
my trust and making me believe that I

00:25:20
knew who he was. Um so when I told my

00:25:23
parents I was moving in with my

00:25:24
boyfriend, of course they were, you

00:25:26
know, nervous and concerned, but it

00:25:28
wasn't a kidnapped moment that I think

00:25:30
we all picture or wait because that's

00:25:32
what, you know, that's what makes the

00:25:34
media, but that's not necessarily. And

00:25:36
that's why media became important to me

00:25:37
is because I thought we've got to give

00:25:39
the world something that shows this

00:25:41
grooming as a as a compelling story

00:25:43
because people lean in for stories, you

00:25:45
know, and and so that's why we started

00:25:47
kind of looking into that arena to make

00:25:49
impact. But yeah, usually what gets

00:25:52
shown to us on the big screen is a

00:25:53
kidnapped moment. And if that's not less

00:25:56
than 1% of the time what it looks like,

00:25:58
we're we're sending the wrong message.

00:26:00
Right. Well, and that's where even

00:26:02
thinking about the pilot, that's where

00:26:03
my mind is going to like that's a

00:26:05
different narrative than maybe what I

00:26:07
have heard typically. Um, and it sounds

00:26:10
like that's the more common narrative.

00:26:11
So, it's like, oh wow, that really needs

00:26:13
to get out there. Uh, on the leadership

00:26:16
front, there's a lot of misconceptions

00:26:18
about leadership and and you jumped into

00:26:21
something where I mean, you jokingly

00:26:22
talked about your trafficker not

00:26:24
teaching you leadership along the way

00:26:26
and you kind of having to learn it on

00:26:28
your own and through great mentors that

00:26:29
you met along the way. What do you feel

00:26:31
like are some of the biggest

00:26:32
misconceptions about leadership that you

00:26:34
have experienced now leading such an

00:26:38
amazing organization?

00:26:40
Man, I mean I think pe people are just

00:26:42
people. You know, we can you you meet

00:26:44
people. I know you meet a lot of people.

00:26:47
You yourself is someone that I'm meeting

00:26:49
that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, he's done so

00:26:50
much." Uh but the reality is once you

00:26:53
actually like really get to know strong

00:26:55
leaders that are leading huge

00:26:57
departments, government agencies, major

00:26:59
companies, you realize that they're

00:27:01
everyone's human. Everyone's just a

00:27:03
person. Everyone's, you know, they all

00:27:05
want to take care of their family. They

00:27:07
all want to try to leave legacy. They

00:27:08
all want to make an impact in some way

00:27:10
through their business or whether it's a

00:27:12
nonprofit or a for-profit, everyone's

00:27:14
just, you know, still trying to make

00:27:15
impact and find a solution. And they

00:27:18
have the same fears, the same desires.

00:27:20
um and they sometimes too feel like I

00:27:23
don't really know what I'm doing here or

00:27:25
you know sometimes you can feel

00:27:26
confident in what you're doing and still

00:27:28
have one more area you're always wanting

00:27:29
to grow to scale to advance in that it's

00:27:33
like I got to figure that out and so I

00:27:35
think when you can not I think when we

00:27:39
see leaders that are doing so much and

00:27:41
we have doubts it can stop us from

00:27:44
moving forward instead of saying they

00:27:46
probably had doubts too everyone started

00:27:48
somewhere I can too and step in anyway

00:27:50
and move forward anyway. Um, that's I

00:27:53
think one of the biggest things is like,

00:27:54
oh, everyone's trying to figure this

00:27:56
out.

00:27:58
That's good. What are you most excited

00:28:01
about for the things that you have

00:28:03
envisioned for the next 5 10 years?

00:28:06
You know, we're launching some in-person

00:28:08
workshops for survivors. We've been

00:28:10
online for 11 years now. Um, like I

00:28:13
said, 1,800 survivors in 800 US cities.

00:28:16
Um, and people want to connect where,

00:28:18
you know, people want to meet in person

00:28:20
and they go through our school at

00:28:21
different times in their life. And so

00:28:23
next year we're really excited to launch

00:28:25
um two-day workshops for survivors in

00:28:28
different cities. So, you know, Texas,

00:28:31
Florida, California, those are our three

00:28:32
largest states of enrollment. We also

00:28:34
have some up in New York and the Pacific

00:28:36
Northwest. So, we hope to have some host

00:28:38
cities um that are going to be able to

00:28:40
to host us and let us have this two-day

00:28:42
workshop where we bring survivors from

00:28:43
all over the state in to build workforce

00:28:46
development, work ethic, um you know,

00:28:48
advocacy within their city, but also

00:28:51
learning leadership, you know, how do

00:28:52
you be a a good employee? How do you be

00:28:54
a good manager, a good director? Those

00:28:56
are all skills that that um we're

00:28:58
excited to to keep advancing in people's

00:29:00
communities. And then we're also about

00:29:02
to launch um thriveconnect.org, or which

00:29:05
is a website that's kind of like Indeed

00:29:07
for survivors. So job um job companies

00:29:12
can be able to just let us know if

00:29:13
they're okay with us putting some of

00:29:15
their job openings online. They list

00:29:16
them on LinkedIn and Indeed anyway. So

00:29:18
we just want to list them there and then

00:29:20
a survivor can create their own profile

00:29:23
that has um a list of check boxes

00:29:25
that'll be able to identify their skills

00:29:27
and talents and it will notify the

00:29:28
survivor when a job opens that matches

00:29:31
her needs. And if that employer is on

00:29:33
our Thrive website, it'll let them know,

00:29:35
hey, you have a survivor that's wanting

00:29:36
to potentially apply for this job. So,

00:29:39
just if you are interested as in helping

00:29:41
survivors get jobs and and be willing to

00:29:43
take a chance on letting somebody, you

00:29:45
know, rebuild with you, even if their

00:29:47
resume might be short in this one

00:29:48
season, what I can say about survivors

00:29:50
is we're we're resilient and and we work

00:29:53
hard and um sometimes it just takes

00:29:55
someone giving us a chance. And and so,

00:29:58
yeah, those are our two things. We're

00:29:59
we're hopefully coming to one of your

00:30:01
cities and we we have this job placement

00:30:03
website that we're about to launch um

00:30:05
for those that are trying to rebuild.

00:30:06
So, we're excited.

00:30:08
Wow. A couple months ago, we had um Jeff

00:30:11
Corsenic on the podcast. I'm not sure if

00:30:13
you've bumped into him, but for those

00:30:15
listening, one of the things that he

00:30:17
talked about on that podcast was, and

00:30:19
he's the chief economist of Fifth Third

00:30:21
Bank, so very much economist and money

00:30:24
and profit and all that kind of stuff,

00:30:26
but he wrote a book on second chance

00:30:28
hiring and how one of the best things

00:30:31
for business is to hire people who are

00:30:33
post prison, also including a lot of

00:30:35
post-traicked people. Um, and and he

00:30:38
makes the business case for that. And as

00:30:40
a leading chief economist, he cares a

00:30:42
lot about money, but he cares even more

00:30:43
deeply about people and has found that

00:30:45
there that it can be much more

00:30:47
profitable to hire people who are really

00:30:50
looking for that leg up after being

00:30:52
through some trauma in their life. So,

00:30:54
there's some powerful thoughts there.

00:30:55
I love that. I want to get that book

00:30:57
because I think he's spot on. I mean,

00:30:58
even with traffic victims, most of us

00:31:00
are formerly incarcerated. I I was in

00:31:02
jail several times for prostitution

00:31:04
related charges because I was just too

00:31:05
scared to say anything. So,

00:31:07
so you come out with a criminal record.

00:31:09
you've you've engaged with the criminal

00:31:10
justice system and incarceration in some

00:31:13
capacity and the things that are great

00:31:15
that are so transferable when you're

00:31:17
getting a second chance and that second

00:31:18
leg up is it takes very little to to

00:31:21
rattle us. You know, you have a lot of

00:31:23
things that happen on the job and and

00:31:25
with different, you know, different

00:31:27
things that happen at the workplace and

00:31:29
we're we're rattled by very little.

00:31:30
We've seen it all. We we really want to

00:31:32
try hard because we really want to build

00:31:34
our life. Like that's the goal. we're so

00:31:36
focused on like I've got to build a a

00:31:39
good life for me and my family that

00:31:41
they're really dedicated and determined.

00:31:43
Um, and they're hard to rattle. So, I I

00:31:45
I would agree with him and I haven't

00:31:47
even read his book, but I'm going to

00:31:48
grab it now.

00:31:50
So, for for those listeners that aren't

00:31:52
in a position where they're hiring and

00:31:54
they're listening to this and think,

00:31:55
"Boy, I didn't even realize trafficking

00:31:57
was a thing in my city and now I'm my

00:31:59
eyes are open to it's probably near me."

00:32:01
What do you recommend that they do to

00:32:03
take the next step to help make a

00:32:05
difference in such a crucial area?

00:32:07
I there's so many ways to combat

00:32:09
trafficking and so I'll I'll very

00:32:11
quickly share the spectrum. Even if it's

00:32:13
simply talking to your kids about online

00:32:15
safety, there's a start. You might not

00:32:17
feel like your kids are at risk to be

00:32:19
trafficked, but I guarantee a people

00:32:22
kids and friends of theirs um are going

00:32:24
through vulnerabilities. Talk to your

00:32:26
kids about online safety, even if that's

00:32:28
all you get out of this. Um, and make

00:32:31
sure you're paying attention to who they

00:32:33
hang out with, who their friends are.

00:32:34
It's just like anything. It's not an

00:32:36
it's not some isolated crime that's off

00:32:38
over here in some, you know, dungeon in

00:32:40
a basement. It's it's just like

00:32:42
anything. Um, you want to make sure you

00:32:44
know who your kids are talking to and

00:32:45
you're talking to them about online

00:32:46
safety and that it's not just a girls

00:32:48
issue, right? This fact affects

00:32:50
everybody. Um, it affects, you know,

00:32:52
boys and girls of all ages. Um, and so

00:32:55
it's important to kind of learn a little

00:32:57
bit, get some online safety all the way

00:32:59
through learning who local nonprofits

00:33:01
are in your area. Um, whether it's

00:33:03
demand reduction or policy reform,

00:33:06
residential housing, crisis response,

00:33:08
job readiness, which I work in, like

00:33:10
there's so many ways. And so if you're

00:33:12
passionate about like, I want to know

00:33:13
what the laws are and I want to figure

00:33:15
out if my state has laws that aren't

00:33:17
aren't helping with this issue. You can

00:33:19
look up your state report card, find out

00:33:21
who's lobbying in your area. So, there's

00:33:23
so many different ways if you want to

00:33:24
like be hands-on with something you're

00:33:26
kind of passionate about even within the

00:33:28
field of trafficking all the way to

00:33:30
becoming a donor, not just for us, but

00:33:32
any anti-trafficking groups that are in

00:33:34
your community. You know, signing up to

00:33:35
be a monthly donor. If your corporation

00:33:38
wants to, you know, give end ofear

00:33:39
gifts, those are always huge. Um, all

00:33:41
the way to sponsoring an event, right?

00:33:42
If you're a local coffee shop and you're

00:33:44
like, "Hey, I'll give I'll bring free

00:33:45
coffee to your survivor workshop this

00:33:47
year. I'm in I'm in Texas, Florida,

00:33:49
California. Like, let us know." It's it

00:33:52
can be as much or as little um as as you

00:33:55
can and want to do and feel passionate

00:33:56
about. But yeah, just minimally talk to

00:33:59
your kids about online safety all the

00:34:01
way to the other spectrum. Quit your job

00:34:03
and join the fight. No, I'm kidding. But

00:34:05
like there's there's so many ways. It

00:34:08
just depends on how how invested you

00:34:10
feel. But everyone could do something,

00:34:12
right? All of us can make a little dent

00:34:14
at making the culture less less sex for

00:34:17
sale. I mean, that's really our culture

00:34:19
is so saturated with that

00:34:20
and if we think that our kids that are

00:34:22
growing up in that kind of environment

00:34:24
aren't going to be impacted, we're being

00:34:26
naive. Um, and so it's it can be yeah,

00:34:29
as much or as little as your as your

00:34:31
heart's being pulled at. Well, and to

00:34:33
some extent it feels like the the topic

00:34:35
of sex has been very normalized and

00:34:39
softened like just for the community,

00:34:41
but at the same point it feels like it's

00:34:43
one of those topics that people can't

00:34:45
talk about as well, you know, and so

00:34:47
where would you recommend people go to

00:34:49
get some of the talking points of what

00:34:50
to say their to their kids or how to

00:34:52
even talk to their friends about this?

00:34:55
There's a lot of great prevention

00:34:57
curriculum and websites out there. Um,

00:34:59
Street Grace is a great one out of

00:35:01
Atlanta. They have a huge online CCK

00:35:03
101, a youth leadership academy. Just

00:35:06
even saying have your kids watch this

00:35:08
six weeks, you know, six videos um and

00:35:11
join with them. We they say, you know,

00:35:13
confident kids are safe kids and it's

00:35:15
all different leadership topics for

00:35:17
youth. It's not just on trafficking. Um

00:35:19
because there it's really true if you

00:35:21
talk to your kids about how to be

00:35:22
confident, how to set boundaries, how to

00:35:25
say no, how how not to allow sometimes

00:35:27
locker room talk within each other,

00:35:29
especially for high school boys. Like it

00:35:31
all matters. It's all fueling this place

00:35:34
where sex for sale is minimized. It's

00:35:37
normalized and then people either become

00:35:39
victims or buyers. And that's what we're

00:35:41
dealing with with our kids. So we've got

00:35:43
to figure out um yeah, more ways to

00:35:45
talk. I think street grace prevention

00:35:47
project is another one. There's there's

00:35:49
so many prevention curriculums out

00:35:51
there. There's there's usually also most

00:35:54
schools offer an online safety class

00:35:55
that your local school would probably

00:35:57
offers usually once a year. So, a lot of

00:35:59
schools are tapping into their local

00:36:00
nonprofits that offer safety online

00:36:02
safety. So, just just you know tap

00:36:04
around on the internet and see what your

00:36:05
local community is offering and figure

00:36:07
out ways that you can talk to your kids.

00:36:09
Love that. Well, Rebecca, I want to hit

00:36:12
you with the last 60 seconds of 10 rapid

00:36:15
fire questions. Uh,

00:36:16
oh,

00:36:17
and you just say the first thing that

00:36:18
comes to mind. No wrong answer.

00:36:20
I love these.

00:36:21
Who's the first person you think of when

00:36:24
I say servant leadership?

00:36:26
Oh gosh.

00:36:28
Obama.

00:36:29
All right. Five words that most describe

00:36:31
you.

00:36:32
Resilient,

00:36:34
ambitious,

00:36:37
funny.

00:36:39
That's what people say. I don't know. I

00:36:41
can only think of three. I don't I can

00:36:43
think of five. I'm a mom.

00:36:44
Those are good.

00:36:46
Those are good. Favorite book or author?

00:36:48
Oh man, I've read so many good ones.

00:36:52
Favorite book or author? Oh my gosh, I

00:36:55
literally have like three sitting right

00:36:57
here on my table and I'm drawing a

00:36:58
blank. My favorite book or author. Skip

00:37:01
me for a minute.

00:37:03
Right. Favorite food.

00:37:05
Tacos all day. Any kind. Breakfast,

00:37:08
lunch, dinner, veggie, shrimp, steak, el

00:37:10
pastor. I love them all.

00:37:12
Love it. Favorite thing to do in your

00:37:14
free time.

00:37:15
I I like to read, which is why it's hard

00:37:17
for me to come up with a favorite book.

00:37:19
It's shocking. That's the one I can't

00:37:20
answer. Um I love to read. I love to sit

00:37:23
by the pool or any form of water. Just

00:37:26
kind of getting outside with a book. Um

00:37:28
is probably my favorite downtime thing

00:37:30
to do. Um and eating food. I'm a big

00:37:32
foodie, so I love to go try a new local

00:37:34
spot. Hole in the wall or or nice. It

00:37:37
doesn't matter to me. I love it all.

00:37:39
All right. Surprising fact about you.

00:37:43
I had I was a beekeeper

00:37:46
during co Yeah, that was my COVID hobby.

00:37:48
I decided to get some hives and have my

00:37:50
own honey.

00:37:51
That's cool.

00:37:53
All right. Favorite place you've

00:37:54
favorite place you've been?

00:37:56
I've traveled a lot and I'm very

00:37:58
grateful for the opportunity to do that.

00:38:00
I I just right now I just love New York

00:38:02
City. Probably it's almost Christmas

00:38:03
time here and I love New York at

00:38:05
Christmas. So that's what keeps coming

00:38:06
to mind.

00:38:07
Is there anywhere you want to go that

00:38:09
you have not been?

00:38:10
I want to go to Aruba

00:38:13
and I want to go to Tokyo. Those would

00:38:15
be my top two list. Tokyo and Aruba.

00:38:18
Love it. What's the best advice you've

00:38:20
ever received?

00:38:21
By this time next year, things will be

00:38:23
different.

00:38:25
Wow. And that is good advice. No matter

00:38:27
what you're going through, if you just

00:38:29
remind yourself of that, it's going to

00:38:31
be okay.

00:38:32
Wow. All right. And finally, why do you

00:38:34
think listening to a podcast on servant

00:38:37
leadership and specifically this

00:38:39
episode, why is it important for people?

00:38:41
I think you learn different tips and and

00:38:44
even if it's just oneliner of something

00:38:45
that you walk away with that changes the

00:38:48
way you you move in life. I I just think

00:38:50
this is such a great place to bring so

00:38:52
many people with so much wisdom

00:38:54
together. you. I always listen to

00:38:56
podcasts and walk away with a nugget

00:38:57
that I try to implement into my life.

00:38:59
So, I hope there's been one thing that

00:39:01
someone's taken away today. I'm sure

00:39:03
there's many with your other episodes,

00:39:05
too. But that's the that's the best

00:39:07
thing about leadership podcasts and

00:39:08
servant leadership especially is what's

00:39:10
one thing that I can implement

00:39:12
differently. You're going to hear so

00:39:13
many great tips on a on a podcast like

00:39:15
yours.

00:39:16
Wow. Well, thank you Rebecca for being

00:39:18
on this. For those that are listening,

00:39:20
if you want to connect with Rebecca and

00:39:22
the stuff she's doing, we're gonna put

00:39:23
some links where people can find out

00:39:26
about the various stuff she's involved

00:39:27
in that she's talked about. Uh, and

00:39:29
Rebecca, I just want to say thank you.

00:39:30
This was such a pleasure and I learned a

00:39:32
lot.

00:39:33
Oh, good. Well, thank you for having me.

00:39:34
It's been an honor.

00:39:35
Thank you for listening to this episode

00:39:37
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

00:39:40
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

00:39:42
it a thumbs up and leave a comment

00:39:44
below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit

00:39:48
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00:39:50
update. Be sure to check out the servant

00:39:52
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