Silver Dollar City Origins

0:00
How did it go from Silver Dollar City,

0:02
Tennessee to Dolly World?

0:04
Because of Dolly Parton.

0:05
Yeah.

0:06
You know, it's really very very simple.

Podcast Introduction

0:14
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

0:16
we welcome Peter Hersand. Peter and his

0:19
brother Jack built one of the largest

0:20
family entertainment organizations in

0:22
the world. But their story didn't start

0:24
with theme parks, acquisitions, or

0:27
millions of guests. Peter shares how

0:29
Silverd Dollar City grew from a 5,000

0:31
visitor cave operation into a nationwide

0:33
portfolio of parks and attractions that

0:36
now serve over 15 million people across

0:38
over 40 properties. Some of their brands

0:41
include Dollywood, the Harlem Globe

0:43
Trotters, many resorts, additional theme

0:46
parks, and more. In this episode, Peter

0:49
walks through the decisions, values, and

0:51
convictions that shaped an entire

0:52
company culture. Peter talks through

0:55
Christ being at the center, a deep

0:57
commitment to loving employees, and a

0:59
long-term view of stewardship that spans

0:01
generations.

Peter Herschend Welcome

1:02
Peter, thank you for joining us on the

1:04
Servant Leadership Podcast.

1:05
Chris, I am honored and delighted to be

1:08
here.

1:09
I just told you this before, but when

1:11
people were asking me about starting the

1:13
podcast, multiple people asked, "Who is

1:16
the one person you'd want on the

1:17
podcast?" And the first person that came

1:20
to mind was you.

Peter's Humble Response

1:22
Oh my goodness. um you you need help.

1:26
You you got to get more friends.

1:28
You have been so influential. So I want

1:30
to say thank you. And when people look

1:32
at you from the outside, they obviously

1:34
see a lot of worldly success, but they

1:36
also see you are in charge of or have

1:39
been in charge of or been a part of

1:41
starting many of the world's most

1:44
recognized entertainment brands out

1:46
there. How did this all get started?

Marvel Cave Beginnings

1:48
Well, it's very very simple answer. It

1:51
started with a cave. It started with a

1:54
hole in the ground here in Missouri.

1:57
That cave was called and still is called

2:00
Marvel Cave. And uh today it sits under

2:04
Silver Dollar City. But that was the

2:07
genesis.

2:08
That was the the alpha. Uh my mom and

2:12
dad, Hugo and Mary Hersand,

2:15
came to the Ozarks in the late 1940s,

2:20
4 uh 89.

Herschend Family's Move

2:24
Um dad was an amateur uh botonist. He

2:29
loved flowers and an amateur

2:31
ornithologist. He loved birds.

2:35
And the Ozarks had a lot of both. And so

2:40
he loved this area uh from coming down

2:44
from Chicago. There were a lot more

2:46
birds and flowers here than there were

2:48
in Chicago. Anyway, um in that wandering

2:54
around in the hills, uh looking uh at

2:58
the birds and flowers, uh mom and dad uh

3:03
met two remarkable ladies, Miss Miriam

3:08
and Miss Genevieve Lynch. Miss Miriam

3:12
and Miss Genevieve happen to own Marvel

3:15
Cave.

Marvel Cave Acquisition

3:16
Uh they inherited really from their

3:18
father who had put it in commercial

3:21
service a long time ago. 1894

3:25
to be exact.

3:27
Now commercial service meant that there

3:30
were some tours.

3:33
Um by today's standards not much. Uh if

3:37
they did uh 50 people a month they would

3:41
have been busy uh back in those days.

3:46
Bottom line, uh, Miss Mariam and Miss

3:49
Genevie, we always address them that

3:51
way.

3:52
Miss Mary, Miss Genevie

3:55
were getting on in years and they wanted

3:59
to u have retirement. They wanted to

4:04
retire from the cave business. Dad on

4:07
the other hand looked at Marvel Cave and

4:10
he saw an opportunity for yes for his

4:14
retirement

4:16
uh but for a business that could grow.

4:20
And so long story short, in 1950

4:26
uh we took over Marvel Cave

Early Challenges

4:31
and that was

4:34
the very very beginning

4:38
of who we are today. It was a

4:42
marketkedly different picture

4:45
uh then and now. Um, the first year,

4:50
first year we were in business, Chris,

4:53
we had a grand total of 5,000 visitors

4:59
go through the cave. Uh, we charged a

5:02
dollar and a quarter.

5:04
So, uh, you're quick. You can work that

5:07
out in your head. I just gave you the

5:09
entire balance she profit and loss

5:12
statement of of the operating company in

5:16
that in that year. Needless to say,

5:19
you're not getting a very good return on

5:21
your investment

5:23
at that point. Dad um continued to he

5:27
worked for the Electrolux Corporation

5:31
and he continued to work for them. He

5:34
became the funding stream.

5:37
uh his income was the funding stream

5:40
that kept um the lights on. We had a

5:45
grand total of three employees

5:48
um Bert, Lester, and Rex. Uh and uh Bert

5:52
and Lester and Rex, all wonderful

5:54
people. They also needed to be paid.

5:57
And that's where dad's work came in. He

6:01
became the the banking

6:04
uh backup. It was

6:07
tough sledding. It was really I mean we

6:11
counted

6:12
every penny. Uh we and we literally we

6:17
could not afford a cash register. Uh we

6:20
used a an old cigar box was our was our

6:24
best cash register in that first year.

6:28
It was difficult but it didn't stay

6:30
difficult. We started building up the

6:33
cave attendance and um by the time 1959

6:40
had rolled around, we built that cave

6:42
attendance from 5,000

6:45
up to 80,000.

6:46
Wow.

Silver Dollar City Launch

6:47
Now that's

6:49
that's a good number. It's not great,

6:52
but it's it's way way better than five.

6:56
Wow. So a lot of people don't realize

6:58
that that was even the start of what

7:00
became Silver Dollar City, you know, and

7:03
Oh, absolutely.

7:04
That was where you really, this is where

7:06
you got your start in getting involved

7:08
in so many brands. So, how did Silver

7:10
Dollar City come about for the case?

7:12
Um, I said 1959 because that was the

7:17
last year before we started Silver

7:20
Dollar City. How did Silver Dollar City

7:22
come about is the is the fair question.

7:26
And um there was a man, his name was

7:30
Russ Pearson. He walked into our life,

7:35
literally walked into our life one day

7:38
in uh uh about midsummer of 1959.

7:45
And uh he quite a character. Quite a

7:49
character.

7:51
He looked like he wanted to be a movie

7:54
cowboy.

7:56
Uh, dressed in western gear, hat and

8:01
boots and and all. But

8:05
unlike a lot of people who can put hat

8:08
and put a hat on uh but they're all hat

8:12
and no cattle. Uh Russ was smart and he

8:16
came to us and he said literally to the

8:20
three of to Mary

8:23
uh and Jack and myself, "Why don't you

8:27
on the other side of the parking lot

8:28
over there build a small little town

8:33
and people will come and enjoy the town

8:37
and you'll get more people going through

8:38
Marvel Cave."

8:41
Hm. Remember, we're in the cave

8:42
business. We're not in the silver dollar

8:45
city business at that time. Um, that

8:49
changed quickly. Well,

8:52
uh, we did that. Um, we borrowed every

8:57
penny that we could scrape up from

9:01
everywhere and the local bank, uh, lent

9:05
us a few thousand.

9:09
really speculative because, you know,

9:11
they're they they're they're going to

9:13
lend us money on a business that doesn't

9:16
exist and hope it does well, but they

9:19
had some confidence in us.

9:22
And so in 1960,

9:25
first year we opened this place called

9:28
Silver Dollar City.

Success and Growth

9:32
and Chris, it was

9:36
God had his hand in what we were doing.

9:40
Um, I don't think Well, as a matter of

9:43
fact, I know that Jack and I didn't

9:47
didn't think much about God then. We do

9:51
now, but we didn't think much about God

9:53
then. We're just grateful that all of a

9:56
sudden there were a lot of people coming

9:58
out because we would do some really

10:00
really corny shows at Silver Dollar City

10:03
and we but people loved them.

10:05
Mhm.

10:06
And uh uh and then we would get we were

10:09
getting now we're getting more people

10:11
through the cave. Remember we're in the

10:13
cave business. We're not the silver

10:15
dollar city business. The city was built

10:19
to attract more people to go through

10:21
Marvel Cave, not the other way around.

10:25
And it worked for Marvel Cave. We went

10:28
1959, 80,000 visitors. 1960,

10:32
120,000 visitors.

10:35
That's a substantial change.

10:38
That summer,

10:41
Jack and I

10:44
had a meeting. We sat out

10:48
uh we laughingly call it our first board

10:50
meeting, meaning there were two stumps

10:54
and uh a couple of 2x2s

10:59
spread across them and uh we sat on the

11:03
board and we had our board meeting and

11:07
we we said in effect, now it's not

11:11
verbatim, but you know But

11:15
we just changed something here.

11:20
We were in the cave tour business. We

11:24
are no longer there. We are now in the

11:26
entertainment business.

11:29
And Chris, those are fundamental

11:32
recognitions that you

11:35
transition points. uh because everything

11:38
you do from that point forward is aimed

11:42
at being in the entertainment business.

11:45
How can we do a better job of

11:48
entertaining our guests?

11:51
Um

11:53
not how can we get more tours through

11:56
Marvel Cave. We did we did get a lot

11:59
more tours through Marvel Cave,

12:02
but that's not what we were there for.

12:05
How will people enjoy themselves more?

12:08
Or will they enjoy themselves more? Or

12:11
is this an expenditure that we got to

12:13
make that they'll never know we made uh

12:18
on deep wells or parking lots? Public

12:22
doesn't give you any any credit for um a

12:26
parking lot. It's not entertaining. It's

12:29
something to get off of.

12:31
Um

12:33
but that's okay.

12:35
uh we were in the entertainment business

12:38
and that mantra

12:41
has been part of who we are ever since.

Expansion and Diversification

12:47
Well, in along the way that led to many

12:50
other entertainment businesses that you

12:52
got involved in getting involved in the

12:54
Globe Trotters, getting involved in

12:56
water parks, hospitality businesses,

12:58
getting involved in Dolly World. talk

13:00
about how you made the decision. At some

13:02
point, Silver Dollar City had blown up

13:04
and gone crazy and now you were getting

13:06
into other businesses as well.

13:08
Uh, it was defensive. It was a defensive

13:11
decision.

13:12
We mid 1980s.

13:16
Um, some of your audience who's old

13:18
enough will remember the Arab oil

13:21
embargos.

13:23
Um, I remember them. I don't remember

13:26
them fondly, but they were they were

13:28
very very real. And uh uh there were two

13:32
of them. But they they triggered and

13:35
this is what I mean by defensive.

13:38
They triggered in us a realization

13:40
Silver Dollar City was doing okay.

13:43
Uh sure. Sure. better than we ever

13:46
dreamed it would be.

13:50
But we are highly dependent

13:54
on the ability of people to get in their

13:58
automobile

14:00
and come see us.

14:03
The air oil embargo

14:06
really pointed out we we did okay. We

14:10
business was off. It was all for

14:12
everybody, but we only lost we had some

14:15
counter measures that we went through uh

14:17
to get around it. But uh uh we we lost

14:22
5%.

14:24
Most businesses

14:26
uh who were equally dependent on uh

14:30
automobile travel were in the 20 and 30%

14:33
loss.

14:34
Wow. during those during those times.

14:38
But it pointed out to us that we silver

14:42
dollar city

14:44
I wouldn't trade our location on it for

14:49
anything. But

14:52
it's not there's not a population

14:54
density

14:56
that means anything. As a matter of

14:58
fact, if you go west

15:01
from Silver Dollar City, you get into

15:03
Oklahoma and Kansas and uh eastern

15:07
Colorado. And the dense population

15:09
density is microscopic.

15:12
Mhm.

15:13
So, we said we just need to be where

15:16
more people are so we can have a more

15:19
it's easier for people to get to where

15:23
we are.

15:25
uh wherever that may be.

15:28
And that's how we ended up in Tennessee

15:32
with in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. That's

15:36
where Dollywood is now. It didn't start

15:39
out to be Dollywood. Obviously, it was

15:42
Silver Dollar City, Tennessee.

15:45
And uh but it met the criteria because

15:49
you can draw a 360 circle around

15:55
So with Dollar City, Tennessee, and

15:58
there's population in all four

16:00
quadrants,

16:01
meaningful population within a 2 to

16:06
three hour drive. And that's kind of the

16:09
base criteria.

Dolly Parton Partnership

16:11
How did it go from Silver Dollar City,

16:13
Tennessee to Dolly World?

16:16
Because of Dolly Parton.

16:17
Yeah.

16:17
You know, it's really very very simple.

16:20
The the you asked the right question. 40

16:23
years ago this year we made the

16:26
transition. Dolly Parton

16:31
amazing amazing person person and

16:35
personality.

16:37
But Dolly was from Pigeon Forge,

16:40
Tennessee, which is where Dollywood is

16:44
now.

16:46
And she had for years

16:49
after she had became famous in her own

16:52
right, she had talked on and off saying,

16:57
you know, I

17:00
I'd like to do something

17:04
for my people. meaning not not her

17:07
family but all the people in in East

17:12
Tennessee

17:14
call it Appalachia. Yeah, you'd be

17:17
correct. In other words, these are

17:19
people who are

17:22
besieged by poverty. Mhm.

17:25
Uh and uh the

17:30
travel industry has for them become

17:34
u mana from heaven

17:37
uh because it's provided good

17:38
employment. But she didn't look at it

17:41
that way. She just wanted to do

17:42
something that would make life better.

17:45
Well, she didn't know what that was. And

17:48
so we listened and went on about our

17:51
business. We were just silver dollar

17:53
city Tennessee.

17:56
And then all of a sudden

17:59
she says,

18:03
"I think I'd like to build a theme park

18:07
here in Pigeon Forge."

18:09
Well, that'll get your attention when

18:11
Dolly Barton says that. And now credit

18:14
my brother, my brother Jack with with

18:18
being um

18:21
amazingly

18:23
um bold and stepping out.

18:27
First of all, you you don't just pick up

18:29
the phone and call Dolly and say, "By

18:31
the way, would you like to be in

18:33
business?"

18:34
You're you're not going to get very far.

18:36
So, it took a little bit of uh working

18:40
uh around to uh finally for Jack to have

18:45
a meeting with Dolly.

18:48
And in that meeting, he really only said

18:51
one thing. He said, "Dolly,

18:56
you want to put in a park

18:59
and because your name is Dolly, it'll do

19:02
very well. you'll do about 750,000

19:06
visitors.

19:08
And you know what? We already have a

19:11
park. And that's what we're doing now.

19:14
What we're doing now.

19:17
And so we'll we'll we'll hit 750,000

19:21
visitors.

19:24
Dolly,

19:26
why don't we combine our talents? Your

19:30
name

19:32
and this is what he said to her. Your

19:34
name and our operating excellence.

19:40
And together

19:42
we can create an entire new product,

19:47
one that nobody has heard of. Everybody

19:50
would be amazed with it.

19:55
And in essence,

19:58
she said, "Yeah, let's do it." Wasn't

20:02
quite that simple, but Dolly, for her

20:04
part,

20:06
uh, she says yes to something.

20:11
It's a handshake.

20:13
It's done. Do you have to go through the

20:16
legal nicities?

20:18
Yes, of course you do. any

20:21
that goes without saying

20:23
um contracts and and leases and so on.

20:29
But the base agreement

20:32
is a handshake.

20:35
Wow.

20:35
Then and now, she is a remarkable

20:39
partner. And is she a a a an asset from

20:44
a business standpoint?

20:46
you you'd have to be in some other world

20:48
to to say no to that question.

20:51
She has been

20:54
as rem as

20:56
great a partner

20:59
as you could hope to find.

21:02
That's awesome.

21:03
That there's just nobody like her.

Company Growth and Reach

21:06
So, you talked about when the caves were

21:09
first acquired doing about 5,000 people

21:11
a year.

21:12
Yeah. Yeah. Now, when you look at all

21:15
the different business units you have

21:17
across the country, Dollywood, Silver

21:19
Dollar City, everything, how many people

21:22
are engaging with your entertainment

21:24
brands?

21:25
How many guests do we have?

21:26
Yeah.

21:27
All product 15 million.

21:29
Wow.

21:30
Uh that's a ballpark number. Yeah.

21:32
Cuz you know, I I don't know. We just

21:35
were fortunate enough to acquire uh some

21:39
new properties this calendar year. M

21:41
um I don't know what the full impact of

21:45
those properties will be, but we have

21:46
some projections. So 15 million,

21:50
that's amazing.

21:50
Plus plus or minus a few million

21:54
uh will be a good enough number.

Acquisition Strategy

21:56
Well, and we've talked in the past about

21:59
uh every year you're acquiring new

22:01
properties uh or most years you're

22:03
acquiring a substantial number of

22:05
properties.

22:06
Seems that way. Yes. How do you go about

22:08
deciding this is a good property? This

22:11
is something we should we might be

22:13
interested in, but we decide not to.

22:15
What's the decision-making process look

22:16
like?

22:17
The answer is very carefully and very

22:21
slowly.

22:23
Um

22:26
we just um two weeks ago announced uh

22:32
the acquisition of our last property for

22:35
this year. Uh

22:38
uh but we've been talking with the

22:42
ownership at that property for over two

22:45
years.

22:47
Um first of all, it has to feel right.

22:52
And you you know um you hear the phrase

22:56
uh I'll know it when I see it. I can

22:58
walk into a property or our management

23:01
team, the leadership can walk into a

23:04
property and I can tell you right away

23:06
uh whether it physically

23:09
will be a good fit. That's what that's

23:11
that that answers what question and

23:14
that's a kind of listing of assets and

23:16
uh uh how much property is there and

23:20
what the buildings that's what

23:24
we'll pay a lot more attention to who

23:29
the property is who who are the who are

23:34
the people who are running it now

23:35
because we don't have any intention

23:38
of this new property I just mentioned We

23:40
have no intention of coming in and

23:43
cleaning house. It would be the dumbest

23:45
move in the world.

23:48
It's a successful business and it's been

23:50
successful for 40 years. Why in the

23:53
world would we want to change that? And

23:56
the answer is we don't.

23:58
Mhm.

23:59
So there's there's the the obvious

24:03
questions, Chris, have to be answered.

24:05
Some of them are financial.

24:07
uh a new potential new property has got

24:10
to have the got to have we don't we

24:13
don't buy losers.

24:14
Mhm.

24:15
Are we perfect in that perfect in that?

24:17
No. By the way, we've made some mistakes

24:20
but not many. So, we'll go go through

24:23
the financial side of a new business.

24:27
Uh but I think more important, we'll go

24:31
through the operating side.

24:33
How do these folks operate? This year

24:36
also

24:38
uh we uh made a major major purchase of

24:44
the all the operating assets of a

24:48
company from Europe in the United

24:50
States.

24:52
All their operating properties here in

24:53
the US. 21 properties.

24:57
Wow.

24:58
All in the entertainment business

25:01
at one level or another. some very well

25:04
known, some lesser known.

25:07
Of the 21,

25:10
we opted to keep 10.

25:13
Uh 11 of them didn't fit for whatever

25:16
the reason. It wasn't that they were bad

25:19
properties or good properties.

25:21
So, they've all been sold

25:23
to happy buyers.

25:26
The 10 10 we kept we have spent

25:30
hours of time with their people. Not

25:34
some not not inspecting buildings.

25:39
Well, there's some bean counters can do

25:41
that and that's that's okay. But where

25:44
we spent our time is in listening

25:48
to

25:50
these men and women who ran a successful

25:53
business.

25:56
How'd you do that?

25:58
How'd you guys get that done? And uh our

26:01
our our CEO, corporate CEO, Andrew

26:05
Wexler,

26:07
he said in board meeting uh a few weeks

26:10
ago, he said, "You know what we found

26:14
with listening, and this is an important

26:16
point, what we found with listening to

26:18
these people is that they have some

26:22
really, really good practices

26:25
and ideas.

26:27
And we're we are bringing several of

26:31
their good ideas,

26:33
making them into our corporate folio.

26:38
How we are going to do we're we're

26:40
changing because of them,

26:42
not the other way around. Nor normally

26:44
in acquisitions, you know, the the

26:46
senior company, you guys got to do it

26:49
our way.

26:51
Um,

26:53
I don't think that's the wisest move

26:59
the the

27:02
business of

27:05
um cultural

27:08
blending is what I'm really really

27:10
talking about. That is as it is more

27:13
important to me than the financial

27:16
statement.

Servant Leadership Insights

27:17
It's interesting when people look at

27:20
everything you're doing,

27:22
people are often like, "Wow." It seems

27:25
like they often strike gold. You know,

27:29
and and we talk on this podcast a lot

27:31
about servant leadership, as you know.

27:33
Mhm. And sometimes I think from the

27:36
outside when people look at you uh from

27:39
a servant leadership standpoint they

27:41
might see well because he's been

27:42
successful what makes him a great

27:44
servant leader is his extreme

27:45
generosity. One of the things that I've

27:48
experienced personally is your

27:50
generosity of time and also wisdom. Uh,

27:54
I remember we were a few years into

27:56
starting our business and we were

27:59
sitting at one of your other offices and

28:01
I had always heard this concept of

28:04
values and the importance of a strategic

28:06
plan but we had nothing as a company. We

28:08
were a few years in and we were making

28:10
money and doing that but we had no

28:11
values. We had no strategic plan and you

28:14
pulled out a one-page piece of paper and

28:16
you said let's look at this together and

28:18
you went through your values and you

28:20
went through your strategic plan. So

28:22
you're talking about a lot of your team

28:25
in a great way is learning a lot in

28:28
bringing it over and making Hersian

28:31
Family Entertainment and all the brands

28:32
you work with better, but you also have

28:34
a really solid base that even enables

28:38
that type of environment. Talk about how

28:40
you created an environment where it's

28:42
just the values, the strategic plan,

28:44
everything that you're doing that even

28:46
sets that up to work so well. I wish I

28:48
could say to you, ah, what you have to

28:51
do is read these four books and it will

28:54
tell you exactly uh how to do it and

28:57
you'll be set for life. We learned from

28:59
our mistakes. M

29:02
uh

29:04
I I

29:06
I would be way out of line if I tried to

29:10
give you the impression that everything

29:12
we do is just easy and works works

29:17
beautifully. We've made plenty of

29:19
mistakes

29:21
uh in what we thought was right and then

29:24
it turned out to be not right. You learn

29:27
from that. You learn um you learn to

29:32
listen.

29:33
You learn to listen. That's that's what

29:36
I'm talking about with Andrew Wexler.

29:39
He when he would when he has been

29:42
meeting with the operating teams at

29:45
these 10 properties we kept it isn't

29:48
just Andrew but it's a a management team

29:51
going in there.

29:53
Uh but these are listening sessions.

29:56
They aren't uh selling sessions. We're

30:00
not there to sell them on how good we

30:02
are. We're there to learn from how how

30:07
do you do things? And that's how we have

30:11
evolved to where we are. Have we done

30:13
taken training? Of course.

30:16
All the way back to Dale Carnegie. I

30:18
mean, uh, uh, and the seven habits, you

30:22
know, we we've done all of those things,

30:27
and I think they're all valuable and

30:29
important,

30:31
but it's the sum of what

30:35
what you appropriate, what we

30:37
appropriate to ourselves

30:41
uh, and formulate into

30:44
uh, that those two pieces of paper

30:47
to one-sided piece of paper which have

30:50
everything that we are

30:53
uh on two pages.

30:55
Mhm.

30:56
Um

30:57
full full summary and I think that's

31:01
really important that our for our

31:05
company we still use them still use same

31:07
same two pages. Uh but any anybody

31:14
really needs to get to the point where

31:16
their values where they they have

31:19
something hard hard copy if you would

31:23
that says this is who we are.

31:25
The reverse is u companies that go into

31:29
business

31:32
and they don't know what business

31:34
they're in.

31:37
companies that go into business and they

31:40
don't know what their morals quote is,

31:46
how well they treat people. that I'm not

31:49
talking about moral well I'm talking

31:51
about all morals but the the the the

31:54
morals of taking care of the men and

31:58
women who work with you

32:02
how do you treat them and are in our

32:05
case how do you love them

32:08
key word key word we learned that we

32:13
learned that

32:18
And part of it is intuitive. We've been

32:21
doing it for

32:23
uh because that's the way Hugo and Mary,

32:26
mom and dad were.

32:28
They they they loved the men and women

32:31
who Bert, Lester, and Rex, those first

32:34
three, they loved them.

32:36
Those three guys from the hills, but

32:38
they were a salt of the earth.

32:41
Um,

32:43
how do you how do we show

32:46
and with

32:48
22,000 employees,

32:52
how do we

32:55
share that we love them or is that

32:57
important? And the answer is, you bet

32:59
it's important, at least for our

33:02
company. Because if you don't if you

33:05
don't have that codified,

33:07
if you don't have it in your head and

33:11
black and white somewhere,

33:14
then you're going to forget

33:16
is what what's going to happen. You're

33:18
you're you're you're

33:22
a compass with no true north.

33:25
And so anything that comes along can

33:32
can any wind can change the set of your

33:35
sail.

Maintaining Core Values

33:37
How did you keep it? Love has always

33:40
been at the center of it. And I know

33:41
Joel Manby talked a lot about that when

33:43
he was here too, but you've had multiple

33:46
transitions of different thankfully

33:49
amazing leaders, you know, throughout

33:51
all the different things you've done. uh

33:54
how have you worked on keeping that

33:56
consistent across different leaders who

33:58
have different methodologies and who

34:00
have been brought up in different

34:01
experiences?

34:03
There is a really really good question

34:06
and the answer I believe uh is all of

34:11
the senior leaders, the CEOs of the

34:15
company

34:17
are dedicated Christians.

34:21
They love the Lord. They're not We're

34:24
not a church.

34:26
Far from it. And they are not church

34:28
people. They aren't pastors. But they

34:31
know what the Lord's love means in their

34:35
own life

34:36
and are able to therefore trans transmit

34:44
that same love to the men and women who

34:48
work for them. That's sounds so super

34:51
simple, but at its basics, that's

Leadership and Faith

34:54
what's

34:56
happening.

34:58
Leadership

35:02
uh to work here at the company, you

35:05
don't have to be a Christian.

35:10
We do

35:12
all of the CEOs that have walked through

35:17
our doors.

Christian Leadership Thread

35:21
That's that is the common thread.

35:26
They've all been solid believing

35:30
Christians.

35:33
Wow,

35:35
that's an amazing thread. And you can

35:37
see the difference. Uh

35:42
I believe so.

Effective Leadership Qualities

35:46
Unbelievable.

35:49
Yeah,

35:54
I believe so. I believe that that that

35:57
thread

36:00
um

36:03
uh is is like perfect seasoning.

36:10
It just permeates the company. our

36:12
senior leadership here in Missouri, our

36:17
senior leadership in Tennessee,

36:22
uh,

36:24
both men,

36:27
amazingly effective leaders,

36:31
and able to love tough. I've had people

36:35
say, "Well, that's just that's kind of

36:39
wimpy.

Leadership Transition

36:42
Don't cross one of these guys.

36:46
uh don't do something that you know you

36:50
shouldn't be or or you'll you'll be on

36:54
your ear

36:56
because they won't put up with it.

36:58
You're in an interesting season now. You

37:02
and Jack have been able to hand off a

37:06
lot of what you've done and now you're

37:10
thinking about leadership and maybe

37:14
servant leadership a little bit

37:18
differently. How are you now thinking

37:22
about what it looks like to lead well

37:26
from where you are personally? and share

37:30
a little bit about how involved you

37:34
still are and what maybe you aren't

37:38
involved in as well.

Stepping Away from Operations

37:41
What what Jack and I are not involved in

37:46
is day-to-day operations. That's where

37:50
we cut our eye teeth. Uh but we made we

37:56
made a decision.

38:00
Oh, that's

38:05
15 years now or maybe a little longer. I

38:10
have to pull the calendar up and take a

38:14
look. We made a conscious decision.

38:18
um that a we weren't going to be the

38:22
kind of we were we were the two

38:26
operating senior guys. He was CEO and I

38:31
was executive VP and everything in the

38:36
company ran through ran through us is a

38:41
little bit of an overstatement but we're

38:46
the top two positions.

Planning for Succession

38:50
Mhm. What we didn't want to do

38:54
for the sake of the company was

38:58
die at our desk with our boots on.

39:02
Because if you do that,

39:06
if you do that,

39:10
who's who's behind you to take over?

39:14
Pick up the reigns.

39:18
It was not a matter of family

39:22
inheritance

39:26
in the sense of uh our our children

39:30
aren't aren't automatically united uh to

39:34
be the new CEO. It doesn't work that way

39:39
and there's

39:43
we just had a meeting on that and never

39:47
was brought up. Never was brought up.

Avoiding a Leadership Ceiling

39:51
But what we didn't want to do was

39:55
stay in the office so long that nobody

39:59
come there was a a a wasn't a glass

40:03
ceiling. It was a steel ceiling. Nobody

40:07
could break through. No, there's no way

40:11
because Jack and Peter are up there

40:16
and uh control would be the wrong word,

40:21
but blocking

40:25
would be the right word. Blocking

40:29
opportunity.

Stepping Out of Operations

40:33
So, we made a conscious decision to step

40:37
out of operations, both of us. We did it

40:41
uh took it uh three three to four years

40:45
for us to do that.

40:49
Um

40:51
and we stepped out of operations

40:55
uh and served only the only active place

40:59
where we were was on the board of

41:03
directors.

41:07
But that's not an operating position.

41:11
It's not an operating board. It's a

41:15
policy board. Um, that was good because

41:19
that freed up the company to bring in

41:23
men and precisely at that point that's

41:27
where Joel Manny came from.

Leadership Transition Success

41:31
He was on our board at the time and uh,

41:36
Jack and I had both stepped away and the

41:40
board looked at Joel and said, "Would

41:44
you would you take the job if offered?"

41:49
And long story short, yes.

41:53
Uh,

41:57
and we've never looked back.

Importance of Succession Planning

40:51
Wow.

40:54
I think it's imperative

40:57
for a company if you want the company to

41:01
go on.

41:05
Um,

41:07
I know too many men, mostly men, uh,

41:11
some women who are are convinced that

41:15
nobody can run the company but them.

41:19
And that's just absolutely bologoney.

41:23
Mhm. because when they die, somebody's

41:27
going to and and it seems to me to be

41:31
logical that you want if you want the

41:35
company to be successful

41:39
after you, Mr. CEO,

41:43
are gone, then you better

41:47
have qualified men in the position

41:51
already,

41:53
not waiting until you decide not to show

41:57
up anymore. Anyway, that was that's how

42:01
we transitioned

42:05
and uh we've been that way ever since

42:09
uh with outside

42:13
leadership. I think I mentioned to you

42:17
earlier uh uh we have a rule an

42:21
operating rule in internal rule uh that

42:25
only two members of the family can be on

42:29
our board of directors at any one time.

Family and Board Dynamics

42:33
Um why do we do that? Well, honestly, we

42:37
did it to protect the company because I

42:41
can picture I can picture a time down

42:45
the line after Jack and Peter are gone

42:49
where somebody might well say, "Gee, I'd

42:53
like to have more money.

42:57
I'd like to have a bigger dividend." You

43:01
people who are listening to this podcast

43:05
are nodding their head and saying,

43:09
"Yeah, I understand that." and you load

43:13
the board with family members

43:17
and get a plurality of family members.

43:21
They can vote a new a new dividend

43:25
structure.

Risks of Family Control

43:29
That's fatal.

43:33
That's fatal to the certainly fatal to

43:37
the economic health. It's also extremely

43:41
selfish but because you're penaliz

43:45
you're benefiting but you're that

43:49
money's coming out of somebody's pocket

43:53
and it's either come out of out of

43:57
operating wages or capex

44:01
one of the two

44:05
no other place for it to be.

Generational Transition

44:09
Wow. How do you deal with all that?

44:13
Because now as you've transitioned onto

44:17
the board, you've transitioned out of

44:21
operating daily operations, families

44:25
getting in the business, you're thinking

44:29
about the next generation, the third

44:33
generation, the fourth, fifth, sixth,

44:37
you're thinking about future gener

44:41
generations. How do you think about

44:45
that?

44:49
Uh we think about it a lot. And the way

44:53
we deal with it may not be the best, but

44:57
the way we deal with it is uh

45:01
intentional

45:05
relationship building

45:09
at the younger generations

45:13
because the further you get away from

45:17
the founding fathers, Jack and Pete, I

45:21
mean, we're not going to be here, you

45:25
know.

Building Relationships with Youth

45:29
Don't don't come back and do a

45:33
rebroadcast 10 10 years from now. I'm

45:37
otherwise employed. Um but the further

45:41
families are generationally are away

45:45
from

45:49
uh the godfathers if you would

45:53
in the founding the less

45:57
empathy they have, less understanding

46:01
they have for what all this how all this

46:05
came to be. They can't have it. They

46:09
weren't there.

46:13
Mhm.

46:17
So what do you do to counter that? And

46:21
that's when I say we we work to educate,

46:25
we work to bring

46:29
these uh calmly younger generations. Uh

46:33
in our case, some of the younger

46:37
generations are now uh in their u uh mid

46:41
and late uh 20s

46:45
and they are the next cadray of

46:49
ownership.

Educating Future Owners

46:53
Not of leader, but of ownership. And

46:57
hopefully

47:01
we have spent enough time over the

47:05
course of their lifetime

47:09
to have infused in them an understanding

47:13
of how the company got where it is

47:17
and what it is to be an owner as opposed

47:21
to an operator.

47:25
and and a fundamental understanding

47:29
of um finance.

47:33
What happens? What happens if you

47:37
increase the dividend? Well, you know,

47:41
the quick answer is I have more money.

47:45
That's right. Where'd it come from? And

47:49
walking through that that process with

47:53
them, not once, but several times over

47:57
over this transition process. We start

48:01
when a youngster is five years old.

Engaging Young Family Members

48:05
Wow.

48:09
We're not giving college education how

48:13
to read a P&L.

48:17
At 5 years old, they really are not

48:21
going to do that.

48:25
But we really want them at age five, 6,

48:29
7, 8, and up to

48:33
really enjoy

48:37
being part of

48:41
what they will come to see as ownership.

48:45
5 years old, he doesn't care anything

48:49
about ownership. He wants to know what's

48:53
fun. Mhm.

48:57
Well, if it's fun

49:01
to be at these gatherings put on by this

49:05
company that didn't even understand,

49:09
but he knows every time they do it, it's

49:13
a really good thing. And I get to see

49:17
all my cousins.

Fostering Positive Company Image

49:21
What's happening?

49:25
You're building a relationship in their

49:29
mind that this this company's pretty

49:33
good.

49:37
And as they get older, they come to

49:41
realize it's not only pretty good, it's

49:45
pretty darn good. And it's been really

49:49
beneficial to them. We need to protect

49:53
it.

Importance of Education

49:57
And real quick, I'd love and this is a

50:01
change of change of gears. You talk

50:05
about the importance of educating family

50:09
members and bringing them up in that

50:13
way. I know education for you has been

50:17
something that you have gotten involved

50:21
in very heavily.

50:25
Yes.

50:29
Talk about your journey of why education

50:33
became so important to you and also

50:37
maybe share some of the cool stuff you

50:41
do. I've heard about Dollywood with

50:45
employees and other things. Just how

50:49
you've highlighted education.

Personal Education Journey

50:53
Well, uh my involvement with education

50:57
came about very honestly and very very

51:01
surprising to me. Uh my oldest daughter

51:05
was u running track here in Branson

51:09
Elementary School, middle school, middle

51:13
school, and she fell on the track and it

51:17
was what's called a red dog cinder.

51:21
You I don't think they even exist today,

51:25
but it was a cinder cinder track and you

51:29
her knee was not a pretty thing to

51:33
behold.

51:37
And uh so I we got that taken care of,

51:41
you know, made sure it was okay. Uh but

51:45
I started thinking

51:49
why why do we have that? Why why because

51:53
rubberized track

51:57
the way layman's term rubber tracks

52:01
they're not rubber but they're

52:05
way better were just starting to be

52:09
known. So, I went to the local board of

52:13
education, said, "If I raise enough

52:17
money, will you put one in for Branson?"

52:21
And uh they kind of scoffed at me and

52:25
said, "Yeah, but you know, it's 100,000

52:29
bucks." And I said, "Okay, if I raise

52:33
100,000 bucks, you'll put one a decent

52:37
track in for Branson Schools." And they

52:41
said, "Yes." And I did. And they did.

Genesis of Education Involvement

52:45
And that got me started because I

52:49
started seeing how education leadership

52:53
is or isn't.

52:57
And that that was my the the genesis

53:01
experience

53:05
on education. Uh I've since become um

53:09
fixated on the importance of core

53:13
education, reading, uh math,

53:17
science and social science.

53:21
Uh,

53:25
education

53:29
so often today gets lost in social

53:33
issues and uh uh uh the the questions of

53:37
gay rights will dominate a board meeting

53:41
uh as opposed to how well the kids are

53:45
learning how to read.

Focus on Core Education

53:49
Um

53:53
are the other issues important? Of

53:57
course they are. Mhm.

54:01
But they aren't what we're here for.

54:05
So

54:09
that

54:13
I'd like to think that uh that same

54:17
level of enthusiasm

54:21
for helping our men and women throughout

54:25
the company um to grow. Uh evolved into

54:29
um some practices that are in place

54:33
today. Uh if you work for the company

54:37
and you want to go to college,

54:41
as long as you're doing okay gradewise,

54:45
uh uh company's got you books and

54:49
tuition.

Supporting Employee Education

54:53
What's that?

54:57
Period.

55:01
And uh we're just now starting a uh

55:05
career ad. I'm talking about for the

55:09
trades, the trades,

55:13
uh,

55:17
critically. I, matter of fact, I'm more

55:21
excited about that for more people than

55:25
I am for a college degree

55:29
because, uh, I'm going to need a lot

55:33
more plumbers than I am people who are

55:37
well-versed in philosophy.

55:41
Uh,

55:45
I'm going to need electricians. I'm

55:49
going to need carpenters

55:53
in my life. and you are too.

55:57
So, uh, we we we're working on that.

56:01
We're starting to make that happen.

Rapid Fire Questions

56:05
Wow. Well, I want to finish the last 60

56:09
seconds with 10 rapid fire questions

56:13
where you just say the first thing that

56:17
comes to mind and there is no right

56:21
answer. Maybe there's some wrong ones,

56:25
but maybe not. Who's the first person

56:29
you think of when I say servant

56:33
leadership?

56:37
My brother. M

56:41
Jack is great. Uh favorite author or

56:45
book?

56:49
Um

56:53
Stephen Ambrose. Undaunted courage.

56:57
Five words that most describe you.

57:01
outward

57:05
um Christian

57:09
um

57:13
husband

57:17
um

57:21
caring

57:25
um

57:29
in love.

57:33
Love that. Favorite food?

57:37
Barbecue.

57:41
You do some amazing stuff out here as

57:45
well.

57:49
I've done some.

57:53
Uh you spend a lot of time on that. Um

57:57
favorite thing to do in your free time?

58:01
fly fishing.

58:05
All right. What's a surprising fact

58:09
about you?

58:13
That I'm 91 and uh uh still still going

58:17
strong. Uh no, that that's

58:21
being 91 is wonderful.

58:25
That's a surprising fact.

58:29
All right. Where's favorite place you've

58:33
been

58:37
ever?

58:41
Yeah, ever.

58:45
My my ancestral home in Denmark.

58:49
Wow. Is there anywhere in the world that

58:53
you want to go that you have not been

58:57
to?

59:01
Antarctica.

59:05
Wow, that'd be amazing. All right.

59:09
What's the best advice you've ever

59:13
received?

59:17
Scripture.

59:21
Love one another as I have loved you.

59:25
Wow, that's great. Uh, and finally, and

59:29
really, you were one of the deepest

59:33
inspirations for the podcast, too. Why

59:37
do you think a podcast like this on

59:41
servant leadership is important for

59:45
other people? I love to share.

59:49
I love to share what I have been given.

59:53
I've been given so much.

59:57
It's not a one-word answer, but

60:01
uh I've been given so much

60:05
and I want to give it away.

60:09
I I want I want other people to not not

60:13
emulate me. That's not what I'm saying.

60:17
But I've learned so much from others,

60:21
from men like yourself,

60:25
uh,

60:29
over the years that if I can use a tool

60:33
like a podcast

60:37
to reach

60:41
hundreds, thousands

60:45
of other men and women

60:49
uh, who

60:53
might might be able to use just a little

60:57
bit

61:01
of what I have. I don't think I have the

61:05
answer. I know I don't have the answers.

61:09
But maybe I have a way to get to the

61:13
answer.

61:17
If I can do that, then that's that's

61:21
what makes a podcast worthwhile.

Podcast Closing

61:25
That's so good. Well, Peter, I just want

61:29
to say thank you for being on the

61:33
podcast uh and for your influence on me

61:37
and the stuff we're doing. Chris, a

61:41
blessing to you, my friend. I appreciate

61:45
you.

61:49
Thank you for listening to this episode

61:53
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

61:57
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

62:01
it a thumbs up and leave a comment

62:05
below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit

62:09
the notification bell to never miss an

62:13
update. Be sure to check out the

62:17
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62:21
for more updates and additional bonus

62:25
content.