Introduction to Innovation

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I tried driving this heritage of

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innovation is what drives us forward. So

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we've got a great past, a great story to

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tell, but we've got an even greater

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story in front of us.

Welcome John K. Solheim

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Today on the servant leadership podcast,

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we welcome John K. Soulheim, the

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president and CEO of Ping Golf. Ping is

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one of the most iconic and innovative

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golf brands in the world. Jon is the

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grandson of Ping's founder, Karsten

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Soulheim, and has carried a

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multi-generational legacy of engineering

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excellence and customer first thinking

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into a new era. Under J's leadership,

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Ping has seen record year after record

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year, growing to nearly 2,000 employees

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worldwide. Under J's leadership, Ping

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rose to the number one market share

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position in Japan, the second largest

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golf market in the world. J's leadership

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journey took him from engineering clubs

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on the production floor to running

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Ping's entire Japanese operation before

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stepping into the CEO role here in the

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United States. His approach to

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leadership is rooted in empowering great

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people, building strong processes, and

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embracing a heritage of innovation

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rather than resting on past success.

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Join us as we talk about what it takes

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to lead a family legacy into its third

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generation, the power of countercultural

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thinking in business, and how faith and

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servant leadership have shaped one of

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golf's most enduring brands.

John's Leadership Journey

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John, thank you for being on the servant

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leadership podcast.

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Excited to be here.

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Talk to us about your journey to now

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leading such an iconic brand.

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My journey? So, obviously I'm part of

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the Soulheim family. Karsten founded it.

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So people ask, you know, what it's like,

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and I'm like, well, I know nothing else

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cuz this is what I grew up. So I

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remember coming here, not to this

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building, but to the building a little

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bit a couple hundred yards that way. Uh

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kind of I guess after school. I don't

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even remember why, but I felt like we my

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mom would bring us here a decent amount

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of time and we'd just hang out at Ping.

Early Memories of Ping

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I don't know if we were picking up my

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dad or, you know, going to dinner and

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just coming here for a little bit. So,

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I've got very early memories of coming

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here and then Karsten lived right down

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the street. Um, so I was just kind of

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raised in this pingdom. Um, played golf

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as a junior golfer, so was has been gone

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through phases where I play a lot of

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golf, don't play a lot of golf, but I

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would say most the time been pretty

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passionate about playing golf. So,

Career Path and Education

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always

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I don't know, golf and ping has just

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always been part of my life. And then as

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I got to high school, uh came here and

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like started working in the summers. Uh

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worked in the engineering department,

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got to be Carson's assistant for a

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summer, actually a couple summers.

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Uh and really just kind of decided this

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is what I want to do. And kind of my

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early I was like, I want to be a golf

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club engineer. I want to design golf

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clubs. So

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went off to college with the idea I'm

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going to be a mechanical engineer and

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design golf clubs at Ping. So kind of

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was just set this is what I want to do.

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Um and then I guess after being here for

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a little bit I was like okay I want to

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run the whole place.

Challenges and Opportunities

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Yeah.

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And uh

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I don't know felt like there was it was

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good timing for me. Um you know we've

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got a long storied history I would say

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though most people don't it hasn't all

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been uh great days. We've had hard times

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and stuff and I think when I came in it

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was kind of right when my dad took over

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as well. So, we were it was a rough

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transition. It wasn't a rough transition

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as in the transition was finally

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happening that needed to happen, but the

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company wasn't in a good position. So, I

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felt like it was good timing for me to

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come in and really have a lot of

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opportunity for improvement in front of

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us.

Global Brand Realization

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Wow. When did you realize that Ping was

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such a global brand? Because later on,

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and we'll get into this, you even went

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overseas and saw Ping explained even

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more. So,

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as long as I can remember, we had a map

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as we walked in the lobby with little

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pins in it of where we did business and

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you know, it was kind of all over the

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world. Okay.

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So, I don't remember kind of the pre-

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international business days. So, it's

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always been um a global business. I

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guess maybe I didn't fully respect what

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a global business meant until I like

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went over to Japan and kind of learned

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how it can be a total it can be very

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similar to the US can be totally

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different outside of the US and there's

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just lots of stuff to learn. So

International Business Insights

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yeah, so we I guess we always had the

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international component and kind of knew

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it was a worldwide business, but until I

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went to Japan, I guess I didn't really

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realize all the complexities that being

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an international business has.

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Talk about how that conversation came up

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because that that Japan move for you was

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a it seems like from the outside a

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pivotal move in your career. Uh talk

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about how that conversation started, why

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you ended up in Japan, and what you were

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doing. Well, I think it gave my dad some

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space. I would I would say too

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aggressive early on. Like I was ready to

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take over the everything. He wasn't

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ready and I looking back I don't think I

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was ready either. So it gave it gave

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more time. It Japan was

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we we had early success in Japan through

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distributors had decided

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probably for about 10 years before I

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went there to do it ourselves. Maybe it

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was more like eight years or something

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like that and we're was not we're not

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getting any traction there. So me going

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there the there was a lot of room. We

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had less than 1% market share when I got

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there. Um this last year we had like 24%

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market share. I think when I left we had

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grown up to uh probably like a 6% market

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share or whatever. So I saw great gains

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when I was there. But I mean it was it

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was a huge opportunity for us and we

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were struggling figuring out how to find

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success over there.

Japan's Golf Market

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Yeah. Cuz the average the average person

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who might not be into golf necessarily

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but has heard a ping, they might not

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realize that golf is such a major sport

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in Japan and that it's a destination

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place for people as well. Like that's a

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substantial market.

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Yeah. It's the second biggest market in

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the world for golf clubs. And I I guess

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in the scope of businesses or whatever,

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golf is not this huge market. Um, you

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know, we're not um but I would say it it

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plays much bigger than it is or

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whatever. So people like you've got a

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ping hat on, people watch it on weekends

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and see our brand and stuff like that.

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So, but just the overall dollars in

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golf, it's it's not huge or whatever,

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but it is everywhere. And in our world,

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our small little golf community, uh,

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Japan is the second biggest market. So,

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yeah, it's a big opportunity.

Impact of COVID on Golf

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Well, it was already big before COVID

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and then COVID, the pandemic kind of

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helped it grow a lot. Just golf in

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general.

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Um,

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yeah. Yeah, we we've seen several like,

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you know, Tiger Woods and stuff where

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golf has this rise in popularity.

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Um, and the the co definitely it was

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something that people could actually do.

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got outside and it seems to be very

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sticky because that's kind of well in

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the past and we still have all those

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golfers playing. I think they're

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invested, you know, they got golf clubs,

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they maybe got a membership.

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Um, so they're committed to it and we've

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still seen record years of rounds played

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uh since co

Golf's Growing Demographics

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Well, and it's getting younger, right?

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You're seeing influencers now on YouTube

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everywhere starting golf channels and

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the younger generation is picking it up,

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I think, at a faster rate from the

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outside than maybe younger people 20

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years ago. Uh it's an interesting

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dynamic just to observe.

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Yeah. Yeah. The demographics much better

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like compared to when I started. You

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know, when I started it was, you know,

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rich white people or whatever, men too.

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And now there's more women playing, more

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minorities. So that's great for the game

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because it's a bigger pond to, you know,

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to fish in to to get customers or

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whatever because it's something

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everybody can do, not just certain

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groups.

Ping's Market Expansion

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Right. Well, and Ping has been one of

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the brands that I think from looking at

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all the different global brands out

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there, because there's a few major

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players, you guys being one of them, you

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guys have done some of the best work at

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expanding into some of those new

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segments quicker and more intentionally

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than other people, which has been just

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fun to see. Um, when you were in Japan,

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talk about, we talk a lot about

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leadership on this podcast. talk about

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what it looked like for you to step into

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a president role running a major

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operation for the first time and what

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you learned about leadership going over

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there that maybe you didn't know.

Leadership in Japan

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Well, it was kind of like leadership

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with one hand behind your back. Um

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because I didn't speak Japanese. I did

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try to learn and got I mean I would I

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still don't speak Japanese but I could

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speak Japanese that would make someone

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who does never like doesn't speak

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Japanese think I could speak Japanese

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type deal. So I, you know, in meetings

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or whatever, I get, you know, 10 to 20%

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of what they're saying.

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But so that was a lesson to me. Like of

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our the Pingolf Japan team, maybe 10% of

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the people spoke um English. So I

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couldn't really communicate to 90% of

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the team. Uh so I'd have to either use a

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translator or, you know, kind of figure

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it out. So definitely I would and I

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guess I would say you know back when I

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was in engineering you know engineering

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it's a lot of you know individual work

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you know kind of doing your stuff I I

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ran engineering for a while for for 10

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years so I had kind of both where I did

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the individual work and then the

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leadership work but then in Japan it was

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just

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harder I would say we had a good team

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because I didn't speak the language and

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if I couldn't really do anything on my

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own um like I because Everything was

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that we all our outputs were in Japanese

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or whatever.

Team Collaboration

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So even the marketing and all that sort

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of stuff. Any ideas I had all had to get

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converted to Japanese. So I couldn't

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like really do the stuff on my own. So I

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had to learn how to work with the team

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and get them to do what we were trying

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to do to help us grow. Well, it's

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interesting. You were positioned well

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for that, whether you knew it or not,

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because I've heard people talk about the

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different leadership styles of Karsten,

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about your dad, and now about you. And

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there was a story once, it might have

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been you that I saw share this, but how

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a lot of people waited to do things for

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Karsten to be there when Karsten was

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there, right? And and it was just they

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looked to him as the expert and let's

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not do it unless Karsten's here. And

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maybe one of the things that I've seen

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people talk about what they love about

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you and I know they love working with

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Carson too, but is your style is maybe

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more empowerment driven. Was it like

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that before Japan or was Japan part of

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that where it's like because I can't do

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anything, we just got to trust that

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everyone will get it done.

Empowerment in Leadership

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How did that happen?

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No, I that came like in my early

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engineering experience and then I was VP

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of engineering for 10 years. So I and it

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goes all the way back to when I was like

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in high school up in engineering and

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just watching how the engineers kind of

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would work on, you know, meet with

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Karsten, work on something and just wait

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for him to come back

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and kind of to get feedback for the next

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step or whatever. And so every next step

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was kind of dependent on Karsten

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and I just was like, well, we need like

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a process that we follow. Um, so as I

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worked my way up into leadership and

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engineering, I was big on well have the

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right people, give them the right tools

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and then a process to follow. So a new

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hireer could come in and actually we can

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like train them like this is how you

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develop a this is how we develop a golf

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club and these are the steps you have to

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go through.

Focus on Process

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So a lot of my time managing engineering

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wasn't on the actual product we were

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doing but what's the process we use

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to develop uh industryleading product.

Returning to the US

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So after leading and growing in Japan

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which was a huge feat you came back not

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sure how quickly it happened but then

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you took over leading here at Ping. Um,

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you hear all the stats about businesses

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last it's hard to get a business through

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like the first few years. It's hard to

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pass it to the second generation and

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basically it's set up for failure when

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it gets handed off to the third

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generation and now that's you. Uh, talk

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about

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haven't done that yet, but

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talk about how you've experienced like

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taking that there's a lot of weight to

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that now taking something as the third

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generation. Uh, what do you think coming

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into leading this?

Maintaining Success

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So yeah, I would say by the time I took

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over things were relatively good here

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and I saw more of my responsibility to

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not mess it up than it was I needed to

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be this big change uh agent where back

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when I started I felt like there was a

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lot of change that a lot of opportunity

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that we needed to capture. Um, so and

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that I was would say, you know, it was

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my dad. Uh, we had a president here,

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Doug Hawin. Um, and me, I was part of

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that leadership team that really helped

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get the company at a good spot. So, when

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I took over, it was more like, okay, how

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do we

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how do we keep the momentum we have,

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continue to grow, and just kind of build

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upon our successes rather than like we

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don't need to change everything and let

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let's don't mess up this good thing that

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we have. Have you already started

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thinking about what it looks like to

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bring in Gen 4, which I know there's Gen

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4 in the business? Is that a

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conversation that you give a lot of

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thought to? Is it not something that you

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have to think about?

Future Generations

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I give some thought to. Um, it's not

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like something on top of my mind every

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day. I've got one daughter working here

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now. Some of my boys who are still in

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school are interested in coming here.

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So, uh, and I've got nieces and I guess

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they're distant cousins when they're

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from,

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um, that are working here as well.

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Uh, it's interest because there's a lot

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of them.

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Yeah.

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So, it's a different puzzle to solve

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than I'm in the third generation. I

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think there's 10 of us. Um, you know,

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second generation there was four. Um, so

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as it gets bigger and bigger, there's,

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you know, and and I would say with the

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fourth generation, there's not as much

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um interest. So there are some that are

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super passionate about it. There's some

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that aren't. Um so to me navigating

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that, how do we get this thing off to

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the fourth generation?

Balancing Legacy and Innovation

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Do you do you often think about the

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legacy that's been passed down through

0:14:43
this and how you're carrying that on or

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are you more focused on hey we're where

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we are let's create a new legacy for

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ourselves or is it balance of both? How

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do you think about that?

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uh don't know if this is a direct

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answer, but I feel like we get a lot of

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those heritage type question.

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I like to answer it with what we have

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and what we're really good at is we've

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got a legacy of innovation.

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So, we want to keep that going. So, it's

0:15:05
always been about the technology, the

0:15:08
product, the innovation that we bring to

0:15:11
the marketplace.

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Um, and that's what Carson did, that's

0:15:14
what my dad did, that's what I'm doing.

0:15:17
So it's no so we don't get stuck in the

0:15:19
past of you know Carson did it this way

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so we had to do that well he did it that

0:15:23
way because that was innovative at the

0:15:24
time

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now that's very old and archaic and we

0:15:27
need new innovative ways to do that so I

0:15:30
tried driving this heritage of

0:15:32
innovation is what drives us forward so

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we've got a great past a great story to

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tell but we've got an even greater story

0:15:39
in front of us

Leadership Lessons at Ping

23:44
And uh so you have great legacy there,

23:47
but then also at Ping just as a company,

23:50
there's been some amazing team members.

23:51
Some of the best engineers have worked

23:53
here. I mean, you've got amazing people.

23:55
What do you feel like are some

23:56
leadership lessons that you're like,

23:58
gosh, I learned this and I hope to

23:59
instill this in my kids.

John's Leadership Insights

24:01
Yeah, I mean, I got a bunch like I

24:03
already you kind of you made me think

24:04
because like I came up early with and I

24:07
don't know if I read in a book or where

24:08
I get like the people process and tools

24:10
or whatever. get the right people, give

24:13
them the right tools, and provide a

24:15
process for them, and all of a sudden

24:17
you can have, you know, a lot more

24:20
success than just what you're doing on

24:21
yourself.

Embracing Uniqueness

24:23
Um, so that's a big one.

24:26
Um, I think like one from my dad I've

24:29
learned is like not being a meto brand

24:32
or whatever. like you got to be your own

24:33
brand

24:34
and just, you know, there's all these

24:37
temptations just to do market research

24:40
and what's all our competitors doing and

24:42
that's going to tell us what the

24:43
strategy is going for it. And I just

24:45
feel like that just leads you into a a

24:48
plan of mediocrity or whatever, like

24:50
where you're not really differentiated.

24:51
So, we've learned to like embrace our

24:53
uniqueness and make that a a tool. Um

Faith and Servant Leadership

24:57
and then I would say kind of tied to

24:59
this like faith kind of a servant

25:02
leadership type attitude has um always

25:04
served me well.

25:06
I feel like if you look back through our

25:08
history there's been a lot of ups and

25:09
downs but faith's been consistent

25:12
through there and I think that has

25:13
helped you know just having God's

25:15
blessing on the company has helped us

25:17
get through these rough times and and

25:19
put us in the strong position we are in

25:20
now.

Innovation and Market Strategy

25:21
I love that. when you think through some

25:23
of those things where you talk about

25:25
like these other brands if you spend so

25:27
much time on the marketer research you

25:28
can almost become an echo chamber of

25:30
everyone doing the same thing and really

25:31
you lose the legacy of innovation that

25:33
you have here. Um what are some

25:36
decisions you've made or the company has

25:39
made that you feel like this was

25:40
countercultural or counter industry that

25:44
then were like this was a great decision

25:46
for us that we went this route.

Success in Japan

25:49
Um, so I guess in Japan, that's where I

25:52
was more I guess involved with the

25:55
marketing and the messaging. I I'm

25:56
involved here now, but that was my first

25:59
one where we, you know, I said we had

26:01
less than 1% market share. Uh, and we

26:04
did a when I got there, we had done a

26:06
doing a bunch of market research and all

26:07
this stuff. And I remember going, you

26:10
know what we need to do? Because in

26:11
Japan, all the products were super light

26:14
and they were all priced way above what

26:18
like a US price product would be.

26:21
Probably like double like for a driver.

26:23
Wow.

Heavy Heads Campaign

26:24
And I was like, one, the technology

26:27
we're using the US is our heads are very

26:29
heavy. The heavier the head, the higher

26:31
MOI, the more energy getting transferred

26:34
to the ball. I'm like, we need to do a

26:36
whole advertising campaign on heavy

26:38
heads. And that converted it to omu omui

26:42
heads I believe is how they said omui

26:44
headedo. And we had like these images on

26:47
the back of magazines of this like very

26:49
heavy. We just kind of made the head

26:51
look big and heavy and just talked to

26:53
which was totally opposite of what every

26:55
everybody else was this is the lightest

26:57
weight product in the in the market. And

27:00
we kind and I said and we need to like

27:02
do global pricing. So what you can buy

27:04
the club for in America is the same

27:06
price in Japan. We don't just charge

27:08
double in Japan because it's Japan and

27:10
they seem to be willing to pay double.

27:12
And those two together really I would

27:15
say is what kind of got us out of that

27:17
under 1% market share

Leading Market Share in Japan

27:19
and started like growing share. And then

27:22
now we've got this and where we're kind

27:25
of become like the leader in Japan.

27:27
Actually last year we were the number

27:28
one market share in Japan and we've got

27:30
everybody kind of following us do you

27:32
know doing what we do. So it and that's

27:34
a good position to be in. But then, you

27:36
know, once you're leading, you got to

27:37
continue to lead because if you don't,

27:39
everybody's copying you after like three

27:41
or four years. So you got to continue to

27:42
come up with new ideas.

Innovative Business Practices

27:44
Without giving away any top secret stuff

27:46
you're working on, are there things that

27:48
you're like, "Hey, we're doing this

27:50
right now that might also be a little

27:51
bit counter to the industry that we

27:52
think will pay off in the long run."

27:55
I would definitely say in like our

27:57
business practices, we're we're unique

27:59
in the way we do things. um just like

28:03
treating everybody the same. They

28:06
sometimes sound obvious or whatever.

28:08
Yeah.

28:08
But, you know, when you're in a world

28:10
where you've got like really big

28:11
accounts and really really, you know,

28:13
small accounts and you kind of say,

28:14
"Okay, hey, it's a level playing field

28:16
or whatever, it's actually a pretty

28:18
innovative concept. Um, and it allows

28:20
those small accounts to grow or

28:22
whatever. Otherwise, it's just, you

28:23
know, always going to be the big

28:24
accounts

28:25
um because they're potentially getting a

28:27
better price or something like that." So

28:29
I would say things like that that we do

28:32
are uh

28:34
I guess you don't think of them as hey

28:35
the new material innovative or whatever

28:38
but it's definitely business practice

28:40
innovative.

Ping's Business Model

28:41
Well talk a little bit for those

28:43
listening talk about the business of

28:45
Ping. You don't need to get into revenue

28:47
numbers but just like how does it go

28:50
from concept to being created here to

28:53
then distributors and in retail like

28:56
what does that process look like? I

28:58
mean, I could go on and on. Um, so like

29:02
if you're talking like the early

29:03
engineering development cycle, it's it's

29:06
over a year. Um, probably not quite two

29:08
years, but close to two years of we say

29:11
like we just introduced the G440K

29:15
driver.

Product Development Cycle

29:16
So like most of the products are on like

29:19
a two-year life cycle. So kind of right

29:20
when we're done with it, we're like,

29:21
"Okay, let's start designing the next

29:23
one."

29:23
Wow.

29:24
Um, so that takes like a two-year

29:26
process. Um, tons of testing and

29:29
prototyping, working with suppliers for

29:32
the heads, the shafts, grips, all that

29:35
sort of stuff. Um, performance testing,

29:38
durability testing, and then you're kind

29:41
of ready to go probably about 6 months

29:43
before the launch, but then you've got

29:45
to like build up inventory so you can

29:47
support the marketplace.

29:49
So, kind of everything's down six months

29:51
ahead of time

29:53
and then you're building up product and

29:55
stuff. then it gets out there and then I

29:59
guess I don't know where we go from

30:00
there. Our business is mostly done or is

30:03
all done through retailers or whatever.

30:05
So there's been you know with the

30:07
internet a lot of like direct sales like

30:09
go on our website and stuff but we we

30:11
have a website we sell some products but

30:13
not golf clubs or whatever like junior

30:15
golf clubs is the only one. And the main

30:18
reason is just because our fitting is

30:20
we're so passionate about our fitting.

30:22
And yes, we've got like web fit and you

30:24
can kind of do web pit, but we feel like

30:26
the best fitting you can do is at face

30:30
to face watching the person hit golf

30:32
balls, putting them on a launch monitor

30:34
and doing that. So, and we're also, you

30:37
know, we're not the final sale. We're

30:40
not experts at that. Um we're so we've

30:43
got you know our group of retail network

30:46
that sell Ping product that is pretty

30:48
limited so it creates a value to them

30:51
that that to have the Ping brand.

30:53
Um so when we launch a product we get it

30:56
out to the retailers. We've got all

30:58
sorts of educational information on the

31:00
product on the fitting of the product.

31:01
train the accounts all up so you if you

31:04
go to a paying rent retailer you can

31:06
trust that you're getting the right

31:07
fitting experience and they're going to

31:08
be able to put you in the right golf

31:10
clubs for you

Importance of Fitting

31:11
because there's so many I don't know if

31:13
it's hundreds of or not but so many

31:15
differences that you guys are looking at

31:17
uh from like I remember like the color I

31:21
have the extra length like the different

31:22
things that people were getting into

31:23
it's like oh they changed the loft they

31:25
changed whatever like

31:28
talk about how that is because that's

31:30
pretty unique uh how should the average

31:32
person be thinking about that? It's not

31:33
just

31:34
I don't want to get I don't The biggest

31:37
key is don't don't intimidate them and

31:38
act like it's super complex. So that's

31:40
another case where we've got a process,

31:42
we've got the tools and we got trained

31:44
people.

31:44
Yeah.

31:45
To to fit to fit individuals. So we have

31:48
a whole department here dedicated to how

31:52
what's the best way to fit and then how

31:53
do we train up these fitters around

31:55
around not just the US but around the

31:57
world. Mhm.

31:58
So, as an end consumer, when you go in

32:01
there, it's a relatively easy process

32:03
cuz the fitter can size you up. Yeah.

32:05
You're tall, you're short, probably need

32:07
to add some length, you know, do a a

32:10
loft and lie fitting. Uh what's your

32:12
club head speed like? That's going to

32:14
dictate mo be the most important in like

32:16
what sort of shaft flex. But then

32:18
there's all sorts of nuance stuff that

32:19
they can do. But an educated fitter can

32:22
kind of do all that for you. And then

32:25
you walk out, you know, you've probably

32:26
hit, I don't know, 20 to 40 golf shots.

32:29
Yeah.

32:30
And you know, you've got here's the the

32:33
driver that the right driver for me or

32:34
here's the right set of irons for me and

32:36
have great confidence that that they got

32:39
it right. I think that was the thing

32:40
that surprised me most because I had

32:42
heard that there were like all these

32:43
differences and it needed to be fit. And

32:45
then I went in and I think I I hit less

32:47
than 20 golf shots for sure and it

32:49
wasn't wasn't here on this property. It

32:50
was at I don't know PGA Supertore Dicks

32:52
or something and and um and I was like

32:56
are you sure you got it? Like it was

32:58
just so easy the in and out of getting

33:00
fitted.

Endless Options, Simple Process

33:00
But I guess it's just they know their

33:02
stuff and you've kind of equipped them

33:03
well enough to know.

33:04
Yeah. Yeah. So endless options, but a

33:08
system to get it down to the to the

33:11
right option

33:12
pretty

33:13
pretty easily, I guess I would say.

Excitement for Ping's Future

33:15
What are you most excited about helping

33:17
now lead Ping? What are you most excited

33:20
about?

33:21
So we've been on a good run. Um I've

33:24
lost track of how many years I would say

33:26
just to whether it's like record year or

33:29
second best year and then the next year

33:31
be the record year. So just the momentum

33:34
that we have in the marketplace right

33:35
now and uh the the quality of team that

33:40
we have um here at Ping just gets me

33:43
very excited about the the near future

33:45
in the distant future. So, I I guess

33:48
most excited would probably be,

33:52
you know, 10 years out when there's more

33:54
fourth generation here and we're really

33:56
I'm not saying they're going to like

33:58
take over in 10 years, but we've really

34:00
got like a plan in place of, hey, this

34:02
is what the company's going to look like

34:04
for the next generation and who who

34:07
those leaders are going to be and just

34:10
that sort of stuff I think is is pretty

34:12
cool to think about and

34:13
getting to work with my kids and stuff

34:15
like that. Yeah, it it's exciting

34:17
because you guys are so innovative. Golf

34:19
itself is becoming more innovative. You

34:20
got things like TGL and other things

34:22
popping up that are like, "Wow, I would

34:24
have never thought this would take off."

34:25
You've got whole business models being

34:27
built off of uh simulators and bays and

34:31
Topgolfs and whatever. Um it's just an

34:34
interesting space to be in right now. It

34:36
seems like

34:37
Yeah, definitely. I I laugh cuz you know

34:39
a while ago it was all you know cell

34:41
phones, electric cars, and I'm like who

34:44
knew? like we were the smart ones

34:45
knowing golf was going to be the one

34:47
that had the big boom, you know, in

34:49
2020. So, it's definitely been fun that

34:52
I mean that it's just been a good time.

34:54
The last like five or us like the I

34:57
guess like seven years, eight years have

35:00
just been really good years for paying.

35:02
So, it's been a fun time to be here.

Working with Family

35:04
Well, that's awesome. And it's cool

35:06
getting to do it. I know you're leading

35:07
it, but it's cool getting to do it

35:09
alongside your dad in a sense of he's

35:11
still around. Yeah.

35:12
And and that's just really special, I

35:14
would imagine.

35:15
Yeah. He I mean for uh I gave him just

35:18
turned 80.

35:18
Yeah.

35:19
And and he's still got good ideas.

35:21
That's where I feel like I don't know. I

35:22
I played music and stuff and I was

35:24
always like these musicians, they just

35:26
kind of lose their creativity when they

35:28
get older. And I definitely feel like

35:30
I've got different skills now at uh over

35:33
50, but definitely don't feel like I'm

35:35
as creative as I used to be.

35:37
Um but my dad has he's just got a great

35:40
engineering mind, good ideas, and I

35:43
would say his biggest strength is like a

35:46
criter. So sometimes it's hard to hear

35:47
the critiques,

35:48
but if you put your emotions aside,

35:50
listen to it,

35:52
and then go back and and kind of work on

35:54
what he said, you you always end up in a

35:56
better place.

Learning from Critiques

35:57
Yeah. So that was a lesson I was not

36:00
good at when I first got here. I was

36:01
always like, "This is done. This is

36:03
good." And then he's like, "I don't like

36:05
this, this, and this." And I would get

36:06
upset. And now I'm like, "You know what?

36:09
Just put your ego at the door. Listen."

36:12
And no matter what, even if maybe he's

36:14
not right, the iterative process of

36:16
going and give it another look. You're

36:18
going to find better better options for

36:19
what you're doing. Have you taken any of

36:22
that even though it's been hard and

36:23
tried to start replicating that in your

36:26
leadership?

Encouraging Iterative Improvement

36:28
Uh

36:30
yeah, just the like the the push back or

36:33
whatever and the you know what, yeah,

36:36
that looks pretty good, but I think it

36:38
could be better

36:39
I I think is definitely something I the

36:42
whole company kind of does. I would say

36:44
we do have really good engineers that I

36:47
think tend to look through most things.

36:49
So, a lot of times I'll like push back

36:51
and they've already like considered that

36:52
and I'm like, "Okay, well, I'm glad you

36:54
did that or whatever." But,

36:55
yeah.

Rapid Fire Questions

36:56
All right. I want to finish with 10

36:58
rapid fire questions.

37:00
I'm just going to ask you say the first

37:01
thing that comes to mind. No right or

37:02
wrong answer.

37:03
Okay.

37:04
Who's the first person you think of when

37:06
I say servant leadership?

37:08
Um, I would probably go with the pastor

37:10
at my church, Ashley Wridge.

37:12
All right. Five words that most describe

37:14
you. Five words at most. Boy, now quick

37:18
rapid fire. Um,

37:22
loyal, faithful.

37:25
Uh, so I got two. I actually think I'm

37:29
smart, so I'm going to go with smart.

37:31
Um, discernment. I think I'm pretty good

37:34
at like filtering out the noise and

37:37
finding the

37:39
kind of what whatever you need to pay

37:41
attention to amongst the noise. So, I

37:43
got one more. What's the word that I

37:45
would describe? Like once I set my mind

37:48
to it, I'm pretty intent that that's all

37:50
I focus on.

37:51
Yeah.

37:52
Um so whether it's getting up in the

37:54
morning to work out, um persistent I

37:57
guess would be the word or something

37:58
like that.

Favorite Golf Course

37:59
Love it. Uh favorite golf course and I

38:02
know you played some nice ones.

38:03
Yeah, I you know what? I'm going to go

38:04
I'm a little biased because I'm a member

38:06
there, but um the Leo at Sand Valley in

38:09
Wisconsin.

38:10
Okay,

38:10
I'll go with that as well.

38:11
I haven't heard of that one. I need to

38:12
check it out. Yeah,

38:13
I'm way behind. Um, all right. You get

38:16
to interact with a lot of cool golfers

38:17
sponsoring stuff with Ping. What's a

38:20
memorable relationship you have or

38:22
somebody that you really enjoy being

38:23
around? And I know there's probably

38:25
hundreds.

38:26
You know, Bubba Watson invited me to

38:28
play in his member guest in Pensacola,

38:31
Florida. I mean, it was a nice golf

38:33
course or whatever, but it wasn't, you

38:35
know, it was it was just his hometown

38:37
golf course, and we had a blast playing

38:39
in that. He played amazing.

38:42
um like I think he was one hole short of

38:45
birdieing half the holes that we played.

38:48
So, uh that was just a good memory and I

38:51
thought it was super cool that he had

38:52
invite me to, you know, you think of

38:54
these professionals, you don't think of

38:55
them playing in like their local member

38:57
guest tournament, but Bubba does it. Um

39:00
and it was super cool to to go out and

39:02
play with him.

Favorite Golf Memory

39:02
Favorite golf memory.

39:05
So, at the Leo course, I'll just go with

39:07
the uh the they have a parent child

39:11
tournament and we won the first two

39:13
years. Uh the first year with my oldest

39:15
son, the second year with my youngest

39:17
son. So, it's pretty cool. You go into

39:19
the the lodge now and our name is in

39:21
gold forever on the top top two. And so,

39:24
it's it's to me it's pretty cool because

39:26
it's my name with both my boys next to

39:28
it.

Market Changes and AI

39:29
That's so special. Um, when you think

39:32
about leading at Ping, uh, and I know

39:35
you talked about what you're most

39:36
excited about, but what is something in

39:38
the market that you're like, this is

39:40
going to be one of the best changes that

39:42
comes in the next 5 to 10 years?

39:44
So, I I mean, I guess I'd have to go

39:46
with AI. I feel like I'm at the age

39:48
where it's like really hard for me to

39:50
like change everything I do or whatever,

39:53
but I'm seeing what other people are

39:54
doing and whether it's like writing

39:57
code, just helping out with your email,

40:01
uh writing like memos or letters or

40:04
whatever. Uh

40:06
and just to there's way I there's like

40:08
way more than that. So to me, how we are

40:13
able to utilize that um

40:16
I'm excited for um I guess maybe even a

40:19
little nervous, but um like I've got

40:22
Teslas that drive themselves or

40:23
whatever, which is like AI.

40:25
And to me, I was like, it takes about

40:27
two weeks for you to say, you know what,

40:30
all that, you know, I've been driving

40:31
for however many years. Forget it. I'm

40:34
just letting the car drive itself cuz

40:36
it's actually like better than me now.

40:37
Like it's moved. It's made adjustments

40:39
that I'm like, I don't know if I would

40:40
have made that adjustment or whatever

40:42
and avoided that accident or whatever,

40:44
but

40:44
yeah.

40:44
So, I think there is like a lot of

40:46
opportunity with that.

Golf Game Strengths

40:48
All right. Best part of your game and

40:50
part that needs the most improvement.

40:52
My golf game.

40:53
Yeah, your golf game.

40:53
Um,

40:55
I've heard you're a good golfer.

40:56
I've got Aros and it it tells me kind of

40:58
everything. So, normally my approach

41:01
shots, so everything like 120 to 180 in,

41:06
I'm pretty strong at. Uh short game

41:09
chipping is by far the worst. But in the

41:13
last month, I've had some pretty big

41:15
improvements in that, but it's still the

41:17
weak spot is short game.

Chipper Club Inspiration

41:18
Yeah. A side note, I like the new

41:21
chipper club, which isn't new, I guess,

41:22
anymore, but even just that concept.

41:24
Cool.

41:25
So, that was me because I I really

41:27
struggle hitting like soft chip shots.

41:29
And so, I chip with a eight iron like

41:31
all the time. And I was like, we just

41:33
And the whole idea is you just hit it

41:34
like a putt. It's the same stroke. just

41:36
think, hey, I'm putting it from here to

41:38
there.

41:39
And so, yeah, I went to the engineers.

41:40
I'm like, we just need to make a club

41:42
that's and you when it's a specific

41:44
club, you can make it the same line

41:46
angle as a putter, the same length as a

41:48
putter.

41:49
So, yeah, that was inspired by, in fact,

41:51
we did player test here and I I was the

41:54
best with with the chipper of, you know,

41:58
the 20 people who did the test and I'm

41:59
like, well, that's cuz I chip like this

42:01
all the time. Um, and probably the worst

42:03
with the W because you we did that with

42:05
a wedge or whatever and probably the

42:06
worst with the wedge. But

Encouraging New Golfers

42:08
all right, for those that are listening

42:09
that are not golfers, how do you

42:10
encourage them to get into golf? What

42:12
would you say?

42:14
Uh, so I would say that's the hardest

42:17
thing about golf is it's it's not one of

42:19
these sports. It's not like pickle ball

42:22
where you can just kind of go do it and

42:24
have a fun the first time. I think you

42:26
can't you can go and have fun, but you

42:28
got to realize you're not going to be

42:29
good. Um, so I would say just enjoy the

42:33
like being outside, being with your

42:34
buddies and just the act of golfing.

42:38
Don't focus so much on the score and

42:41
there's, you know, through lessons, you

42:44
know, all there there's ways to get

42:45
better or whatever. But I would say just

42:47
like start slow um and don't don't

42:51
expect yourself to be this great golfer

42:53
if you get out of the way. And that's

42:55
what I've learned is to how do how do

42:57
you have fun during the bad rounds?

42:59
And I can do it now. Whereas a younger I

43:02
couldn't do that at all. And so that's

43:04
why there'd be times where I just

43:05
wouldn't play much golf at all or

43:06
whatever because I'm like I'm playing

43:07
terrible. It's no fun.

43:09
But to me now I realize you know what

43:11
just going outside being with family

43:14
with friends

43:15
that's the real attraction of golf. And

43:18
so doing it for that and then if you so

43:21
have the passion that you want to be

43:22
good you know there's also there's ping

43:25
golf clubs there's lessons there's all

43:27
sorts of ways to work on your game and

43:29
it become then it becomes like a fun

43:31
hobby and it's something that you know

43:33
through hard work you can see the

43:34
progression which is very rewarding as

43:37
well.

Best Advice Received

43:37
Yeah. Some of the best laughs I've ever

43:38
had have been on golf courses that's for

43:40
sure at myself and with friends.

43:43
Um all right two more. Best advice

43:45
you've ever received. I'll go with uh my

43:48
grandma Louise. It was right after my

43:51
wife Brooke and I got married and she

43:54
told me the key to a good marriage is

43:55
flexibility.

Importance of Servant Leadership

43:57
That's great advice. All right. And

43:59
finally, this is a podcast on servant

44:00
leadership. Why do you think it's

44:02
important for people listening to become

44:05
better servant leaders or even care

44:07
about servant leadership?

44:08
Yeah, I guess I would say the and it's

44:11
kind of hard because when you are

44:12
leading, well, one, it's a lonely spot

44:15
to be.

44:18
Um,

44:19
and you can get very focused, you know,

44:22
on yourself and your hubris and that

44:24
you've done all this or whatever. But I

44:26
think that's very like short-lived and

44:28
shortsighted thinking. And if you start

44:30
to look at, you know what, I'm a leader

44:33
here serving all these people. Like my

44:35
I'm actually working for all the

44:37
employees here, whatever. my job of

44:39
setting the vision and these policies

44:42
is to benefit

44:44
everybody, not just myself.

44:46
I I think that's way better off for the

44:48
company. You're going to do a way better

44:49
job. Um and I think it brings you just a

44:52
lot more satisfaction than uh if you're

44:56
all in it just for yourself or whatever.

Podcast Closing

44:58
Yeah, that's really good. Well, John,

45:00
thank you for being willing to be on the

45:02
podcast and sharing some of your story

45:03
and a lot of your wisdom with our

45:04
audience.

45:05
Thank you. It's been great. Thank you

45:07
for listening to this episode of the

45:09
Servant Leadership Podcast. If you

45:11
enjoyed what you heard, please give it a

45:13
thumbs up and leave a comment below.

45:16
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45:20
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45:22
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45:24
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45:26
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