Bern Bertsche's Intro

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Today on the servant leadership podcast, we sit down with Burn Burchie, former owner and president of Camcraft, a

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worldclass precision machining company that has grown into a trusted partner for some of the largest automotive,

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aerospace, and industrial manufacturing companies around the world, including SpaceX, Caterpillar, Cumins, Bosch, and

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more. For Burn, success was never just about business. It was about people.

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Investing in Camcraft's employees, leading with generosity, and using the company as a force for good in the

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community and around the world. In this episode, Burn shares the incredible story of how he risked everything to buy

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Camcraft and what it means to build a company that outlasts you. If you've ever wondered how to grow a business,

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learn generosity, or leave a legacy that truly matters, this conversation is for you. All right, Burn. Yeah. Thank you

Welcome Bern Bertsche

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for joining. Glad to be here. This is super exciting. Obviously, I know your story, but for our audience, they don't

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know any of your journey. So, share a little bit about how you got into Camcraft. I joined the company about 10

Bern's Career Journey With Camcraft

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years after I got out of college. So, I had worked in a number of companies prior to that and uh had an opportunity

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to go to work for the company uh in 1974.

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My father and the owner of the company were good friends. And it just happened the company I was with was moving to New

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York. I didn't want to move. And they were out playing golf together. And my dad uh happened to mention, "Hey, Burn's

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going to be looking for a job." And uh which my father never let me forget. At

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any rate, uh it just mentioned it. It wasn't like he was looking for a job, but Bud had just uh bought out his

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partner. Felt like maybe had a few bucks he could spend. and I had an accounting background, a CPA. He didn't have an

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accountant. And so I joined the company in uh in ' 74 and loved being in

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manufacturing. It was something I'd been in before. Love the smells and the sounds and just seeing things made. I

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mean, it just was so so cool. And uh so through the 70s I was I was doing

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primarily manufacturing things, accounting and uh then uh in 1981 the

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owner died. Would you like me to go on? Yeah. Okay. What then? Yeah. But then so at

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that point I was in a position uh where they needed me to take over the company.

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I had been I had been halfrunning it. the owner's health was bad. And so while

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he was down in Florida, I would uh I would take on more responsibility. He'd come back up from Florida and change

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everything I had done while he was gone. And uh but any rate, uh we had had a

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good relationship. He was a a good guy. Started the company in 1950 and uh did a

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wonderful job of of building the company. So when he died, uh the family

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didn't have anyone else to come in to run the company. So I began to fully run it. The problem became after a few years

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that they really weren't sure what they wanted to do. Uh the daughter and son

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and mom uh didn't know if they wanted to keep the company. They did want to keep it initially just as a legacy to uh uh

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to her husband, but as years went on, they weren't willing to invest in the company. And uh one thing about the

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business was it it had a lot of old equipment. It had a had a good uh customer clientele uh good people, but

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our machinery was continually getting older. And I could understand it. They didn't want to invest much in the

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future, not knowing whether they were going to keep the company. So by

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1986, I realized that I had to do something else. This was this wasn't

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going to go anywhere. So, I talked uh I talked to the owner, the widow, and

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said, "I've got to go find something else to do." And she said, "Well, Bern, you can't just leave. You know, you got

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to run the company." I said, "Well, I'll stay as long as I can. Uh, but I need to find another job." Well, I happened to

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be in a a group called the President's Forum back then with presidents of other companies. And uh I remember telling the

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guys that I was quitting and they couldn't believe it. I said, "You got five kids. You don't have a job. what

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why are you doing this? And I I said, I just I know I' I need to do it. I've got to get on with life. And one of the

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guys, good guy, was um willing to offer me a job in his company. He felt so

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sorry for him. He said, you can come and run my plant in Ohio. So, at least I had something. Well, at any rate, uh we

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tried to sell the company. That was the idea of the family then since I wasn't going to stay. And it's difficult to

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sell a company when you don't want your customers to know you're thinking of selling obviously. And uh so we kept it

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quiet, but we didn't get much action. We had a few people interested and uh that

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uh never panned out. So I wasn't sure what was going to happen, but uh one of the board members, guy I'll never

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forget, uh suggested to me that I buy the company. I kind of laughed, you know, I said, "How am I going to do

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that? I don't have the money to buy the company. He said, "Well," he said, "I've done this before. You know, leverage buyouts are popular and I think I can

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help you to uh put this together. I've got a I've got a friend of mine, Hank Wiznooki, who's been in the CPA world

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and done these things. So, why don't we talk to him?" Well, that started the process maybe in uh August of

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1986. And through the next couple of months, we kept talking about how this

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could happen. I was talking to banks about how they could lend me the money. And initially, everything went wrong.

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The bank decided they didn't want to give me the money. Uh, which they had committed to. Uh, the accountant and

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attorney who worked for the family really didn't want me to buy the company. Uh, matter of fact, they

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offered to the owner that they would buy the company and they could help her then

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to eventually sell it. I didn't know that at the time, but I found out later

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in the story that that's why I had some of the difficulties I did. But any rate, we went through the next couple of

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months. I found a bank uh Lakeshore National Bank that was they didn't even

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look at any of the numbers. I met uh I I met the uh the loan officer out at the

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Baba Link Golf Course, beautiful golf course. We sat uh at lunch on a Saturday

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and we talked for a while and I said, "Oh, I think we can do this." And the company was in good shape and we had a

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good balance sheet and so forth. But any rate, they came up with, you know, the agreement for us. So by this time, of

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course, the the owner had agreed that I could try and buy the company. And uh so

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we had set a date of December 31st to make the the finish finish off our our

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our purchase. Well, we had to do it in the year because in 1986 there were some tax

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laws changing and we actually had a uh an employee stock ownership plan of about 30% of the company's stock that

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was held by the employees and I had to buy that along with the the owner the

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owner the owner's shares. Well, if you didn't get this done by the end of the year, there were more tax consequences.

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So, we decided to do the closing on December 30th. And uh that uh just to

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give us a little bit of leeway in case anything went wrong. So, we had um my

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attorney along with the bank and the bank's attorneys and uh came to the

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closing on the 30th. I remember my had a bottle of champagne in his briefcase. I'll never forget that. had this bottle

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ready to celebrate. Well, the day goes on and the lawyer for the owner never

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showed up. And uh I I couldn't imagine that this this could happen, but he

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didn't come. So, he called later in the day and he he decided that I don't know if he did it alone, but he said, "You

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need to put up more money. Uh and I want another hundred,000 from you." Well,

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actually, I really didn't blame him. I had at this point all I had put in was

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whatever I had in my uh profit sharing was about $50,000. So I was buying this

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company for 3.5 million with $50,000 which probably was not not really

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appropriate but any rate uh so I had no way to get another 100,000. Uh I uh I

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thought well it's it's done. But one of the bankers said well what about your house? what about your the mortgage on

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your house? And I said, well, you know, there is a mortgage, but there's quite a bit of equity in it. And he said, well, I'll send somebody out this afternoon

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and we'll look at this is December 30th. Look at the house, see if we can loan you 100,000. And miraculously, and

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really miraculously, they came back and they said, "Yeah, we can give you another 100,000." So, the next day, I've

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got now the 150,000. and my my attorney's there uh with the uh warm

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bottle of champagne in his briefcase and uh uh the guy doesn't show up again. Uh

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I I could not believe it. I mean, this it's like 2 3:00 in the afternoon and I'm still waiting. I can remember pacing

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the floor outside of the uh outside of the conference room thinking, Lord, this is it's going to go one way or another

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and either I'm going to be out of work or this business is is going to be sold

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to me, which was unbelievable in itself. Well, one of the bankers called this

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attorney's boss and they got him over there and we did get the papers signed.

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Now, my wife Jeanie uh somehow believed that I would never put a a second

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mortgage on our house. I don't know if I had said that. I didn't remember saying that. So, from the time I asked her to

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sign the papers for the second mortgage to the time we finished everything with the with the sale, she hadn't talked to

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me. I mean, she had signed the papers, but no use for anything we were doing.

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And I understand that a woman thinking my house is up for sale. I mean, it could be up for sale. But any rate, so

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we got papers taken care of and as of that evening, December 31st, I own the

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company. Wow. Was that a good feeling or a bad feeling at that point? Uh, no. It

Impact of Buying Camcraft

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was really a good feeling. I mean, the reason why I had decided to leave the company was because I really sensed what

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I I didn't know how badly I wanted it. I was running the company even before I thought of buying it. never thought of

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buying it prior to the when it uh came to that but I I felt like it was almost

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an idol in my life. I was so concerned and wanted it so much and that's why I realized I had to get out of it. I had

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to get away from it. So when it you know you give something up and the Lord gives

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it back to you way more than you expected. So, I was thrilled and the people in the company when they found

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out I had bought it were much relieved because they didn't know what could happen if somebody else came in and

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bought the company. So, it was a you know, I'd been in the company for a number of years. They knew me. They knew

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what I was going to do or they thought they did. And so, it was a Yeah, it was a it was a good time.

Dealing With The Pressure Of Owning Camcraft

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your pressure level went from already high leading the company to now you're owning it and responsible for multiple

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millions of dollars uh that you've now put up for this business. What was that like in terms of dealing with that

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change of pressure that next year? You know what was was interesting was

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that in that next year we we developed some new business that I didn't expect to get a company uh one of Eaton's

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divisions had bought up they they did they buy Briggs and

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Stratton? I can't recall if it was Briggs and Stratton. At any rate, uh Eaton was looking for a new supplier and

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we happened to have all the machinery that they needed to do the work that that they uh required and so that was

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such a relief to me. the other business was still coming in, but we we were we were staying steady. And then this new

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business began to add some profits to the company and uh there was that sense

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that we had a uh we had a good thing ahead of us because the the prior owner

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had kept things pretty much under lock and key and then the family had as well

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and not knowing what they wanted to do. And so when I was able to start buying machinery, I was still buying old

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machinery, but not as old as what we had uh out out on the factory floor with

Implementing The Latest Technology

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that journey of you used to have old machinery. Now if somebody walked through Campcraft, it's always the

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newest, the most state-of-the-art. When did that change in your mind from buying old machinery and having old machinery

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to really becoming cutting edge? Yeah, you know, it it one of the things I did

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initially was to develop a good board of advisors and for anybody that is running

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a company, I'm so surprised, you probably are, at how many people don't take good counsel and don't have people

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around them that can give them uh straight answers. Uh and so I've all we

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have always had good men, Christian men on our board. So we had uh moved into a

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new plant. Uh uh I didn't buy the plant when I the the old factory. It was old

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building and didn't want it. But we moved into a new building in

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1994. And one of the board members after I had toured them around, I was so proud of the place. And he said, you know,

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Bern, this is a really a nice looking place, but it's all old machinery out here. Well, to me it was wasn't old. You

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know, if it was 10 years old, it was almost new. and he said you need to you need to start modernizing. One of our

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board members Claus Fouse worked for a German uh real highass German

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manufacturer of machines and he helped us to think through all of that and that

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began the journey and then I start I was able to travel Japan and throughout Europe

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looking at other companies that were really doing well even companies around Chicago that were way beyond us. I

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couldn't imagine us ever getting there, but you know, you see what's possible and you begin to think, well, maybe

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maybe we can do it. And so little by little over the last Well, let's see. I

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bought it in what 90 oh 86. This is almost 40 years later, isn't it? So,

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it's taken us a while, but in the last 20 years, we've really made some gains

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that uh are quite unbelievable. But when I walk through the plant today, it is interesting because this small little

Looking Back On Camcraft's Journey

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company at one point is now one of the world's leading manufacturing manufacturing companies, right? It's

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it's an interesting journey. What do you when you do walk through it, what do you think? Like it it is so different and

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it's got to be fun to look back and think you were a part of this. Yeah. You know, when people say you must be so

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proud of this, uh it's it's not pride, you know, it's it's amazement in some

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ways. It's thankfulness to the Lord with the great people that we brought in the company. I mean, there's so many that I

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look at that that somebody asked me a while ago. He said, "Well, why did you why did you hire me?" Was Mark Bosard, I

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think, who was super talented engineer. And I said, I just I knew the girl you

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married and she was terrific like you and I knew that you had the right

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attitude and approach to business and he made all the difference in the world for us. So, uh, to me it's just

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gratefulness. It's just it's quite incredible what the company has done and continues to do. It's a tough market,

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but it's one that we enjoy the fight in, and we're in a position, I think, to win

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win some of the battles. With those battles, the the sales process for

The Sales Process - Finding The Right Customers

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selling in your industry is not like your typical sales process where it's just a quick conversation and a small

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bit of money exchanging. What's the sales process look like for a large manufacturing company? And what are you

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selling and who are the companies that you're selling to? Yes. Well, our customers today are much different than

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they were some years ago. We went through the the 8020 analysis some years

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ago and realized that we had customers that we weren't good for and and they we

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weren't good for them. And so we began to uh remove through you know the right

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process customers that we thought we were either not doing the right kind of work for or we weren't going to get

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anywhere with them. And as we went through that we found that we could concentrate more on more difficult work.

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So we began to go after work that others couldn't do. And we had people like Mark and others in the company that were able

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to challenge us challenge the company to buy the right machines. And uh and so

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that started the process and so you you know you take it a step at a time. So we started to do very difficult hydraulic

17:14
work that most companies weren't doing and then a lot of them started to get into it and so we looked for other

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things. We got into the automobile area, vehicles, trucks, engine parts, which

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were very difficult to make. And know more recently, we've moved into the

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aerospace area, which has been very interesting. Not easy to get into, but

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through God's hands, I can't imagine anything else. uh we started doing

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business with SpaceX 3 or four years ago maybe 5 years ago and have developed a great relationship and doing a lot of

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work with them which has uh provided us with opportunities to get into other

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companies because if you can do it for SpaceX you can do it for almost anybody else. Yeah. So the opportunities come

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from uh some of the shows we do where we'll we'll we'll be at a show that is

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related to aerospace and show what we've been able to accomplish with our own people and our own machines and so

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forth. Or it can be done just through uh other companies that help us find good

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companies. But it it takes time. I mean it's it's probably a year to two years between opening the doors and even

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getting your first order. That is crazy. That takes a lot of planning and consistency of a strategic plan. Yeah.

Loving and Caring About Your People

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One of the things that I think is interesting because there's been thousands of thousands of employees go

18:39
through Camcraft over the years um especially over that long. And one of the most consistent thing that I hear

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from Camcraft employees is how much you loved them, which is very strange, I

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think, for an employee to say about a boss at first, but you genuinely cared about the people, I think, more than

18:56
most business owners I've ever met. How did that come natural or why do people

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think so highly of your relationship with them? Yeah. You know, I was reading a story about another another owner that

19:08
was in our business about the same age as me. And the story was written talking

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about how when he was in the business, he'd be out on the floor walking around talking

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to the people, getting to know them. And now it was different. It just didn't happen that way. And it was similar with

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me. Uh, I was not particularly an outgoing person, but the the prior owner

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of the company was was a rough dude in in many respects. Uh, very great sense

19:40
of humor, but he could be cutting and just wasn't he didn't give people uh the

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time of day that I thought he should. And so when I uh when I had the opportunity to begin to run the company,

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I really got to know the people well and just you have a natural interest in how they're doing. And uh I was surprised

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recently one of the guys was retiring fellow from from Eastern Europe was

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retiring from our company and he wanted to make sure I'd be there to say to say goodbye to him and uh thought why would

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he do that? But any rate he said I remember when I got to see him and say goodbye. I remember he said you know

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when I my wife got deported he was here he was a citizen and back then I don't

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know what was going on but he his wife and his child had to leave the country and go back to uh Eastern Europe for a

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year or two before he could bring him back and we worked I tried to get the attorneys involved and all he said I remember you'd be out talking to me all

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the time about what was going on he said I never forgot that and it made me realize is not that I didn't before that

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but people want to know that you care and you just do. I mean, these are great

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people. I mean, our work staff, I mean, the folks out on the plant start, most

20:55
of them start at 6:15 in the morning. They typically work 10-hour days. Have great attitudes. And was one

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of the things in hiring people, and if I didn't hire them, whoever did, I said, "They've got to like people. I want

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people to come here that like other people because if they don't, we'll never get them on our side. We got to

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start with good people." And we have so many like that that so when new people

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come in they're greeted by the others that have been there and know how they were greeted and it just it's made for a

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great atmosphere in the company. So, I don't know. I think people knew I was fair and uh that I did care. And I

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always felt like you you get away with more if you if you screw up on something, you know, where you make a

21:39
decision that may not have been the smartest. People will give you, you know, somebody talked about this like

21:45
money in the bank, you know, they can draw on that. They know, hey, you wouldn't do this to hurt us. So, whatever was whatever reason this was

21:51
done, we'll give you a pass on this. and uh and that paid off even even when I

The Importance of Camcraft's Mission Statement

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bought the company uh and started uh started officially as an owner. I the

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first thing one of the first things I did was to put our mission statement together and that I wasn't sure of how

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that would be taken by the people, but I knew that the business was given to me by the Lord. And so I I I put the

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mission statement together saying we will glorify God with this business. And I I didn't have anybody maybe some said

22:26
it behind my back, but I didn't have anybody that came to me and said, "What the heck are you talking about?" And we

22:31
set it up, you know, with said we're going to run the company by biblical principles. Just a lot of things back

22:37
then that I hope I would still have the guts to do today, but it was just I knew I had to do it. And it uh it's that's

22:44
still a part of the company. So a lot of people in your shoes uh

Investing In The Company Rather Than Selling

22:49
would have built this company like you did and sold it and you've taken a different route. Uh why did you take a

22:56
different route? I never was concerned about taking a lot of money out of the company when I be I

23:03
couldn't take any money out. I would like to at the beginning but I couldn't. But as time went on my whole thought was

23:10
how do we build this into a great company? you know, the books on uh on uh Jim Collins books uh which all of us

23:17
read through on how to make your company great and all it just I wanted it to be a great company and I'd been in

23:24
companies that were really run well and had done well uh that had helped me in my role now as an owner and um so we we

23:33
continued to invest heavily over the years and as I saw our people really

23:38
getting excited and bringing new people in with great talents that wanted to work in a company that was investing and

23:44
bringing in the best of equipment. I I just was thrilled with all that and and

23:49
the thought that we could that we could use it for God's purposes doing Bible studies using uh we set up a a uh

23:56
foundation uh from which we uh we take 10% of the company's profits and put it

24:03
in there and we've used that for you know many many uh charitable endeavors and so for me that the company is uh is

24:12
not something I would want to see sold. It could be in the future for sure if we don't have if we don't have the next

24:17
generation coming in the business. But uh I loved it and uh I'm hoping it stays

24:22
in the family. Well, so now there's three generations that have now worked in the business, which is very cool to

Involving Family In The Company

24:29
think about. Uh what is it like when you start bringing family into the business? Cuz it can't it can't be easy. Yeah.

24:38
Well, it was easier initially with uh two of my sons, Mike and Pat. Really

24:43
wanted to come in the business. Pat had worked for Ping, the golf club company, right out of college and then came had a

24:49
great manufacturing background. Mike had been in sales before he came to the company and so he came into sales and I

24:56
got to watch them over a period of time develop into really sharp guys that knew

25:02
what they were doing. So that generation wasn't difficult for me and it was exciting to see them in the business and

25:09
we all got along. We got along well and uh the next generation I'm not quite

25:15
sure yet what's going to happen. The friend of mine Doo has got I think they're in their sixth generation in the

25:21
company and uh that's amazing to be able to do that. But we'll see if the Lord has someone. One of the grandsons

25:28
already thinks he should be running the company, but he's still in college, so he's he's got a ways to go. But any

25:34
rate, yeah, we're hoping we got a lot of kids. I mean, a lot of grandkids uh and great grandkids, so who knows. What is

Conversations With Family Who Want To Be Involved

25:41
the process like to have conversations with family that enter the business to

25:46
explain that it's part of learning? One of the things I love that you did is you have a lot of family members work

25:51
outside the company. Why why did you do that first? It just it it can become too ingrained

25:59
if you just if you can come into the company right out of out of school. It just seems like well that's all I've got

26:04
to do. I earn I don't have to earn anything. I just come in. And I saw a lot of a lot of guys do that where where

26:11
family came in and saw some bad situations. Uh I remember one company well I was on the board of and they had

26:18
a number of family members that the previous generation had brought in. The idea of their business was to give our

26:25
family jobs which was a terrible thing. And so a couple of them that came in they eventually got rid of and uh my

26:33
close friend who was the president of the company had had been the one that had elected so go some of these that weren't qualified but they were still

26:40
stockholders. And we were at a board meeting and uh uh Mark Mark Waltz was

26:46
his name was showing that they had finally made profits the last quarter. He was so excited by cuz the company had

26:52
had trouble. And one of his cousins who had been let go uh commented when he saw

26:59
the profits. He said, "You know how that hurts me? That hurts me to see those profits and we're getting nothing out of

27:04
it." I thought, "Oh boy, you got to be very careful with who you bring in the company." So we we have tried to make

27:13
the family uh available for jobs at least to come in and work you know as uh

27:19
uh doing anything painting fences whatever but and then getting them into some other jobs are a little more

27:25
qualified uh at least to give them a taste for what we do. It's surprising that manufacturing is not an area that a

27:33
lot of young people want to go into. Even in a company that's, you know, modern and got all its, you know, it's

27:39
not a dirty, grimy plant, but that isn't, we haven't seen a lot of the family interested in doing that. Uh,

27:46
hopefully we'll have a few. That's all we need. Where do you see, and this is broad, but where do you see manufacturing going as a whole? Because

The Future of Manufacturing In America

27:52
you've been on the forefront of manufacturing for the last 40 plus years. Where do you think it's heading?

27:59
That's a good question. I mean, it's a concern because we don't have enough good people coming into the industry.

28:05
That and a lot of the equipment that's used in all of our manufacturing

28:11
companies is coming from outside the country. You know, back after the Second World War, we destroyed everything Japan

28:18
had and everything Germany had. We still had all of our equipment, so we kept it and kept running the old equipment like

28:24
Campcraft did. Well, Germany, Japan, and other countries started fresh and they

28:29
became the dominant uh manufacturers of the equipment that we need to make the

28:35
parts and the machines and everything else we do. So, that's a concern. Uh,

28:40
but I'm hoping our new president with this making America great again will

28:46
understand we have to do things here in America. You know, when I think of an Elon Musk, I think where else in the

28:52
world could somebody have done what he did? I mean, no, there's nowhere we he would have had that freedom. He got

28:58
government backing, but to build companies from nothing. We've got so many that have done it here. So, America

29:04
is a great place to build uh to build manufacturing companies if we can get

29:09
the people and we can get the we can get the investments behind it. Uh so, you

29:15
know, we're not dead here, but we certainly aren't where I'd like to see us. Throughout your journey, you've had

Buying Other Companies - Lessons Learned

29:22
multiple experiences where you've had to lead through very difficult circumstances and some amazing

29:28
circumstances as well. One of the things that I think is interesting is you've gone through the process of buying other

29:33
companies after Camcraft, some good, some bad. Um, what was the process like

29:38
of buying something and having it not work out and then vice versa, buying something and having it work out? you

29:45
know, we looked at tons of companies because we weren't sure whether our industry was going to have enough

29:53
opportunities for us. And uh I can't tell you how many companies we probably

29:58
looked at over that period of time. Uh and in terms of buying companies, I

30:04
don't recall other [Music] than years ago, we bought some companies

30:10
that were just we we hadn't paid enough attention to what we were doing. wound up with poor leadership in the companies

30:16
and that didn't work. the latest one, Matrix, which is the automation company.

30:22
Uh, even when we bought it, our board, I remember them saying, you know, it's a different kind of company than Camcraft.

30:29
You know, it's a company where you have to continually get new customers. You with with Camcraft, if we get in on

30:35
building u uh components for an engine, that engine just keeps getting built and

30:40
built and built. We keep providing. Well, automation systems, you build one or 10 and then they're done. and you got

30:47
to find another customer. So that's been a challenge and uh one maybe we didn't

30:53
see coming at the extent it could come but uh that I think we did a lot of

30:58
work. We knew what we were getting into in terms of the people there uh their qualifications. They had done a lot of

31:05
business for Campcraft so we knew it was a good company. Would we do that one again? Uh you'll have to ask Pat who's

31:11
my son who's running it. I'm not sure. You've helped so many people throughout the year become better leaders and one

Instilling Servant Leadership In Others

31:18
of the things I love about you personally is that you are a true servant leader. How do you help instill

31:24
that servant leadership mentality to other people? Yeah, that's a good question. I think you know I've learned

31:30
it from a number of people that I've watched. I heard you ask somebody else question about who you know servant

31:37
leaders that you've known and you've you've you've liked and you know two people come to mind. One is your dad and

31:45
uh the other one is another fellow that I met at at uh NCS, Randy Kerry. Two

31:52
guys that just go out of their way. Your dad had said years ago when we first met, he said, "I I feel like one of my

31:59
jobs is to help the Burchie family." And he didn't just mean it in uh in the business. I mean, he got his son married

32:05
to my granddaughter. I don't know how he did that, but he he had a lot to do with uh just staying involved with us, but

32:12
just and he does that with our group. I mean, he just he really has that heart. Even with you, working with with you,

32:19
Randy Kerry, maybe his military background helped him to become that, but he just a guy that's unusual in

32:26
terms of what he will do for people and the things he's done uh for Jeanie and for me over the years. So, I've learned

32:34
a lot from from other guys. I'm learning more now as my wife goes through this

Impact Of Having A Wife With Health Issues

32:39
period of time where I have to be much more engaged than I used to be where I'm

32:44
serving her a lot more than she's serving me. And uh but I mean it's it's

32:51
something that the Lord takes you through and you know my wife has the joy of the Lord which gives me that joy of

32:57
the Lord. So, I think it it is uh hopefully I've influenced others and and

33:02
I hope in our family I I've seen them do awful lot of things that probably I

33:08
wouldn't have done at their age, good things that uh have shown that they certainly have servants hearts. Yeah.

The Background Story of "Crossroads Kids Clubs"

33:14
It's funny because a lot of the stuff that has stemmed from Camcraft has really impacted people around the world

33:20
in positive ways now when we look back at some of the impact you've had. talk about the story of starting Crossroads

33:26
and what that was like and explain what Crossroads is just for our audience listening. Yeah. Well, Crossroads Kids

33:32
Club uh is a uh after school basically almost after school program for uh kids

33:38
in the public schools and we go into the schools through the churches that we uh

33:44
that were able to uh uh enlist uh bringing their own volunteers into the

33:50
schools and we have a curriculum we put together of Bible study and small group

33:55
time and and a time of uh of just game playing uh about an hour and a half

34:01
after school and we we now I think are in a hundred different schools at least

34:08
have 100 clubs. Some of them aren't in schools that are in places like Africa or Central America. But um we started it

34:17
through some some unusual um circumstances. I had just I mentioned I

34:22
we built the building in Hanover Park in 1994. And we move in and the building

34:29
next door uh was larger than ours, but it wasn't hadn't been moved into yet. And there was graffiti on the walls of

34:36
that building on two sides at the corner. Well, we had moved out of Franklin Park, which was a good place to

34:43
move out of, and it wasn't one that I would have I would have expected something

34:48
there, but didn't expect in Hanover Park. And uh it turned out after talking to some people, apparently there were

34:54
two gangs. One gang had its its writings on one side and the other other gang on the other side. And uh so I I had said

35:02
flippantly that I was going to put somebody up on the roof with a shotgun and if anybody touched our building,

35:08
they were going to get buckshot. Well, turned out there was a a a DARE officer,

35:14
which was prominent back then, who was working at one of the local schools. and

35:19
uh or he was involved there and he came over to talk to me uh about the shotgun

35:24
and about the uh about possibly working with us and that led us to beginning a

35:30
partnership with this Parkwood school which was in in our area and uh so we

35:36
started bringing kids over. We'd bust them into to Campcraft once a week and

35:41
we got maybe 15 20 of our people that would volunteer to sit with the kids with two or three kids and just spend

35:49
time over lunch with them talking about uh it wasn't a it wasn't anything

35:54
religious. It was basically we we would be making little cars with them to race

35:59
or we'd be even teaching them blueprints or anything we could do with the kids just to give them idea what it was like

36:05
in a business. get them close to people that were uh out in the business world. And it was really a a really interesting

36:13
good time. And uh after we were doing that for about a year, I was involved

36:19
with it. One of the little girls that was part of my group who was uh the holy terror was just she was maybe 4 foot

36:27
three, but she was tough as nails. And I think her background was the reason why. And she would fight it, fight the boys,

36:34
and I mean if she needed to. But any rate, at Christmas that year, she brought me I've got it in my in our uh

36:42
closet and uh she brought me a white stuffed animal and it was so loving that

36:48
she gave me this. I mean, I didn't cry at the moment, but I I was just touched because she wasn't that kind of a kid,

36:54
but I knew that her home life wasn't all that good. And uh so at any rate, that

37:00
really got me thinking, we've got to be doing more than just this at at the school. So I thought, well, let's do a

37:07
spring vacation Bible study, Bible school. And the church across the street, across the street from us,

37:14
Evangel, uh allowed us to use their gymnasium. And so I offered it to all

37:20
the kids in the in our in the class at Parkwood and asked our people if they'd come over for that week because kids

37:25
were off school and just uh we'd go through we did veggie tales and sat with the kids and our people had their Bibles

37:32
out and and it was so exciting and all the kids showed up and we had lunch for them. And so when that was over I just

37:38
thought, Lord, there's got to be more that we can do. And uh so I had one of

37:44
the fellas, Paul Mson, who you know was working for me at the time. And I asked

37:49
Paul, I said, "Let's look into this. What what more could we do?" And uh so he started to think about things, very

37:56
creative guy. And one of our one of the fellows at work suggested that he knew a

38:01
young man that might be interested in leading this group if we were really going to put something together. His

38:06
name was Matt Armstrong. Matt was a school teacher at the time and had a a background was bilingual. And so I

38:14
talked to Matt and it was just something about him. I mean, he was excited about what we were going to do. And I said, "Well, here what I'd like to do is to

38:22
start a club over at Parkwood if we can get into Parkwood and they'll let us come in after school and we'll we'll

38:28
find the volunteers either from our company or from wherever." And so we did that. We started at uh that first club

38:35
at Parkwood and I was a part of it. He was a leader and uh and that's how it

38:40
all started. Wow. And now it's decades later and there's been thousands of kids

The Transformation of Crossroads Kids Club

38:46
impacted by what was just an idea at the time to help stop graffiti on your own building, right? What's it like to see

38:53
that transformation? Yeah. You know, it seeing and Matt

38:58
Armstrong is still leading it and he's got a number of great people working for him. Uh it, you know, it's again when I

39:06
look at people at Campcraft that have come in that I've had a a part in bringing in. I can't I just I'm so

39:12
amazed. And Matt, I mean, people look at him and they I mean, he came from I can remember maybe he won't see this, but I

39:19
can remember when he was he was first with us and he'd speak in public, I would get nervous because you know how

39:25
that is with people, you're not sure whether how it's going to come off. Well, he is so good now. I mean, he

39:31
whether it's on YouTube or whether it's speaking at at dinners. I mean, he in so many ways just a great young man. He's

39:38
now in his 50s, just 50. Any rate. Uh so I'm I am thrilled when I get stories all

39:46
the time about kids that have come to the Lord or not only kids, their families have come to the Lord. They've

39:51
joined the churches. I mean, so much happening. And now we're seeing it even even in Ghana. Uh there's uh some of the

39:58
folks were just there last week and they're just places you'd never expect, but the Lord's opened up opportunities.

40:04
Matt's followed them and uh and so we've seen a great move in uh Mexico and El

40:10
Salvador, Honduras, and it's just yeah, it's been amazing. Part of being a great

Leaving A Legacy of Generosity

40:16
servant leader, I often think, is about leaving a legacy behind you where people

40:21
are better because of something you've done or taught them or just shown them. When you think of legacy, what comes to

40:27
mind with the legacy you're leaving and Jeanie's leaving? What I think about mostly is

40:35
um is generosity. I think that's something that I've really uh felt that uh my kids

40:45
know that we we want to be generous. I've seen them be extremely generous and

40:52
uh because the Lord's blessed us in ways that I never expected. I have been able to be involved in people's lives that

41:00
uh it really has made a difference. Genie will say once in a while I'll be watching something like, you know, the

41:07
dogs that need money or, you know, whatever. Oh, there's so many out there at $19 a month now. You'd be broke if

41:13
you followed all of those. But she says, she'll say, you know, I want to give money to them. You know, I give money to

41:18
the church, but the church, you know, they don't need it. These people need it. So, I haven't given to the dogs yet,

41:24
but there's a lot of people in need, and I, you know, to be around them and and feel like you can make a difference is

41:30
just that's a blessing from the Lord. So, that's probably one of the the great

41:35
things that I've been able to do and able to show our own family and even those that we've given to. I mean, I've

41:41
had letters from people saying, "Boy, this what you've been able to do for us, I someday I'm going to be able to do

41:47
that for somebody else." Do you think generosity is something that can be learned by people, or is it just

Generosity - Can It Be Learned?

41:52
something you are generous or you're not? No, I think it I think it starts with being willing to give to the Lord.

41:59
I mean, I when we were new believers, I was I remember uh being spoken to by uh

42:08
two of the members of the church. church. Happened to be a husband and wife. We're both school teachers with, as I recall, they didn't have any kids

42:14
yet. And they were explaining to us how we could tithe in the church. Well, I

42:19
was in my early 30s at the time. We're raising five kids. I'm thinking, you

42:24
have no idea. I, you know, I mean, maybe you can tithe, but I can't do that. And

42:30
it like with most people, it took time to trust the Lord and see that this, you

42:35
know, it can happen. the Lord does give back to you three-fold, sevenfold of

42:41
what you've given. And so for me, it started there where the money wasn't mine. You know, you don't feel like it's

42:48
it's yours to hold on to. And uh so I uh

42:53
I think that that started it and then just feeling better about giving it than you do spending it on yourself if it can

43:00
get to that point. And I think we we we spend enough on ourselves, but it sure is fun to be able to give it. Yeah. It's

Instilling An Attitude of Generosity In Future Generations

43:07
interesting because I've seen so many um groups, whether it be companies, uh

43:13
podcasts or churches or whatever, highlight your story and talk about Camcraft and talk about you and talk

43:20
about the extreme generosity that flows. Um, and it's been a a great teaching

43:26
opportunity for a lot of people about what it looks like to steward well and be generous. When you think through,

43:32
you've got all these generations moving into the business. You've got a large family, uh, I'll put it that way. Um, a

43:39
very large family. What do you hope from a family standpoint you're instilling in

43:44
your kids and your grandkids and your great grandkids all of that? Well, certainly uh that there isn't a

43:53
love of money. One of the things I talk to the kids about, the grandkids, excuse

43:59
me, is that you don't go after a job because you're going to make a lot of money in it. If it's an, you know, if

44:05
it's an area you you enjoy, then let's let's go at it. But uh I mean I was I

44:11
never thought about making uh a great deal of money in our company and you

44:17
know never expected to but I love what I did and I've seen others in our family that are doing that. They're they love

44:23
what they're doing. They're not interested in making a lot of money. I think it's that the generosity side.

44:30
Um, I've given the kids in at times in the past given the kids uh money at

44:36
Christmas to give away and I've seen some of them just ready to give it away

44:42
and others well I don't know where to give it and I realize there you know you need you need to understand that you

44:47
need to look at things you need to think about people it could be an individual it could be a it could be an organization but if you don't get out of

44:55
yourself you don't really think about passing it along to somebody So some of

45:00
those things I think and I I'm sure I need to do more. Uh we have shared with

45:05
the family where we have given through our foundation and some of the other

45:11
things and the kids have asked me why do you give it there or why do you get and that's that's good. I mean understand what it is we've seen in these

45:17
ministries. One of the things I've learned some years ago was I have to know the people that we're giving to. I

45:23
don't mean individuals. They may be in a ministry, but I want to know who it is I'm giving to directly that is using

45:30
that money in their ministry. And I want to have good accounting practices within the companies. And so those are things I

45:37
can teach the kids. Yeah. Another thing that I've noticed that you're teaching people and going through yourself over

The Importance of Friendship - New Canaan Society

45:43
the last little over a decade is the importance of friendship. Talk about how the importance of friendship has played

45:48
out in your life, especially in the last 15 years. You know, I I realized at Camcraft that

45:55
I had a lot of friends, but the friends were more with people that maybe because

46:00
I was leading the company, it was, you know, it's a different kind of a friendship than it would be a real friendship. And I enjoyed the people,

46:07
love the people, but I realized the the men friends that I had were more related

46:13
to my own family than they were beyond that. And uh so a a friend of mine who had moved

46:22
to to Winston Salem had mentioned to me the uh New Cananan Society and that was

46:27
that got me interested. I went down and visited him and saw 150 men coming together once a week

46:34
listening to a speaker and really getting to know one another. I mean the point of NCS was to get to know and love

46:41
uh other men and and through that to love Jesus more. And I thought, "Wow, that that really makes a lot of sense."

46:48
And so I brought it back up here with a group of men, including your dad, and I just said, "Hey, give me 3 months and

46:55
let's see if we can do this. We'll we'll bring a speaker in every other week. We can be the speakers initially." And it's

47:02
been an incredible journey for me where most of my friends now are guys with

47:08
NCS. I mean, it's it takes it it I shouldn't say takes over your life, but

47:13
you have so many connections and with with good guys. And it's not just

47:18
accountability, which I don't even care for that word particularly. I think it's it's more genuine friendship with guys

47:24
that uh you really care about that you're texting with, you're seeing, you're praying with, uh you're having

47:31
parties with. And that that has changed my life in many ways, knowing how to I

47:37
mean, you see how other people live. You see how other guys are dealing with issues beyond your own little circle.

47:42
And that's that's important. I mean, where you can be praying with other guys or just seeing great things happening

47:47
within their families. It feels like sometimes it's hard to build friendships because of that uh the agenda that some

Dealing With Other People's Agendas

47:54
people might have in building a friendship. I've noticed that you don't even think about it that way or it feels like you don't think about it that way.

48:01
you're just willing to be friends with whoever and get close to them. How do you think you get over that barrier? And

48:07
as people listen, how can they get over those barriers of the wondering about agendas and things like that? You know,

48:13
I think I think with at least with our group with NCS, we don't have a uh we

48:18
don't it's not a networking group. I mean, I've gotten caught in situations I wish I wasn't for sure. Uh but you learn

48:27
pretty quickly, you know, where you don't want to go. But I I think, you know, we're all made in the

48:34
image of God. You know, you hear that uh and you think, "Oh, yeah. All right." But it's true and it's it's something I

48:41
I I have to remember at times where I might have a difficult relationship. But I I have not Yeah. I

48:49
I've always felt in the business or wherever, you know, I'm I'm an average guy. I'm I mean, I'm ordinary. I mean,

48:56
I'm regular guy. And so why wouldn't I be regular and ordinary with everybody else? People don't look I know some

49:03
people don't look at me that way because maybe I've got more money or I've you know I've had a business all that but

49:09
you know yourself. You know what you're you're nothing special, right? So Oh, okay. Well, this has been awesome. I

10-Rapid-Fire Questions

49:15
want to ask you 10 rapid fire questions where you just say the first thing that comes to your mind and there's no right

49:21
or wrong answer, but who is the first person you think of when I say servant leadership? Well, you know, Jesus

49:28
certainly uh in in thinking of someone who gave everything, I'd mentioned

49:33
before your dad, Randy Carey. Those are a couple of people, you know, real life people that I think of as as great

49:40
servants. Five words the most describe you.

49:45
Uh ordinary was one I just said. Um,

49:51
generous, uh, hospitable, um,

49:58
uh, caring, uh,

50:03
empathetic. That's five, I think. That's good. All right. Favorite author or book? CS Lewis probably would be my

50:12
favorite favorite author. Uh, so many books that he wrote. Uh, you know, also

50:19
Josh McDow, you know, I think of a favorite book, Evidence Demands a Verdict was a book that really got me

50:27
past that point of is there a God or not. When my wife came to the Lord, I didn't know which end was up. And

50:32
Evidence Demands a Verdict. Really, the Lord used that to bring me

50:38
to like, yeah, there is a God. The Bible is true. It's real. So, that's a couple

50:43
of them there. All right. Favorite movie? Schindler's List probably because of our interest. We've been to Israel

50:50
many times and you know love for the Jewish people and Israel. So that that

50:55
movie really I think a lot about that. Favorite food? Pizza probably. All

51:01
right. Favorite thing to do in your free time? I'd say golf, but after the week I

51:07
had last week, I think that's that's gone now. Um

51:12
I I enjoy just in the quiet reading a good book. Okay.

51:19
What's a surprising fact about you? I didn't cry for 20 years. Wow.

51:26
Wow. Okay. I didn't expect it wasn't the most recent 20. Yeah. All right. Where's

51:32
your favorite place you've ever been? Uh we really love Hawaii. The big island

51:37
we've spent a lot of time on. We, you know, been around to Hawaii, different islands, but I think if if there were

51:43
one place I'd want to go back to, it would probably be Hawaii. Where's some place that you'd like to go that you

51:48
have not been? New Zealand. I've just been watching

51:53
some series on New Zealand. I'd really love to see New Zealand. All right. And finally, what's the best advice you've

52:00
ever gotten? That's interesting because I went through a series

52:05
uh well it was a seminar but it was a series that on business by the book and

52:11
the uh the leader of that this is before I bought the company and it really had

52:17
an impact on me. He said one thing I tell all you guys out there is uh never

52:23
have a partner in your business and particularly don't have a Christian partner. What? This was a Christian guy

52:30
speaking and that I had a number of guys when I was going to buy Camcraft. Not a

52:37
number, but but some guys came to me and wanted to invest with me. And I just

52:43
kept thinking about I can't I'm not sure I know what I'm going to do in the business. I don't want to have to have

52:49
to deal with somebody else explaining it. And uh so I didn't and the Lord let

52:55
me buy it on my own. and that uh so that was certainly good advice. That's great

53:00
advice. Well, thank you for being on the podcast. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm

Closing

53:05
I'm excited for our audience to have heard from you and learn about your journey in Camcraft and be inspired by you. Well, I hope it was. I hope that uh

53:13
yeah, I enjoyed it and you kept the questions reasonable. I appreciate that, Chris. Thank you for listening to this

53:19
episode of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a

53:26
comment below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit the notification bell to never

53:31
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