Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast for our 100th episode, we welcome my dad, Bill Lesner. Bill is a retired General Motors executive and longtime corporate board director. Over a 37-year career at General Motors spanning the United States, Japan, Australia, and Germany, Bill helped lead the team that won Cadillac the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award — the country’s highest quality honor, presented by President George H.W. Bush. Since retiring, he’s served on multiple corporate boards, mentored more than a thousand students, and spent the last decade helping build PWI behind the scenes. Join us for this special 100th episode where Bill talks about the calling that took our family to Japan, the three questions he uses to help people find what he calls their perfect place, and the lessons his own father taught him about putting faith, family, and friends first.
Episode Transcript
Career Transition Insights
0:00
It’s how people in career transition
0:02
figure out what’s next in their life.
0:03
It’s how students that are coming out of
0:06
college figure out how to go, you know,
0:08
where should I do, what should I do? Um,
0:11
people that are just confused and happy
0:13
in their current position. So, I’ve been
0:15
able to work with thousands
0:17
of people going through this model and
0:19
it’s been really, I think, pretty
0:21
revolutionary. And it just it it just
0:24
helps people get a frame of reference. A
0:26
lot of people, you’re so overwhelmed,
0:27
you don’t even have a good way to think
0:29
it through. So, it just helps people
0:31
think it through.
Welcome Bill Lesner
0:39
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,
0:41
for our 100th episode, we welcome my
0:43
dad, Bill Lesnar. Bill grew up in a
0:46
great family environment and loved
0:48
sports from a very young age. As a
0:50
child, he began playing table tennis and
0:52
ended up winning multiple state [music]
0:53
and national titles and represented the
0:56
US in international competitions. Bill
0:58
is a retired General Motors executive
0:01:01
and longtime corporate board director.
0:01:03
Over a 37-year career at General Motors,
0:01:06
spanning the United States, Japan,
0:01:08
Australia, and Germany. Bill helped lead
0:01:10
the team that won Cadillac the Malcolm
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Baldridge National Quality Award, the
0:01:14
country’s highest quality honor,
0:01:16
presented by President George HW Bush.
0:01:19
Since retiring, he served on multiple
0:01:21
corporate boards, mentored more than a
0:01:23
thousand students, and spent the last
0:01:25
decade helping build PWI behind the
0:01:27
scenes. Join us for this special 100th
0:01:30
episode where Bill talks about the
0:01:32
calling that took our family to Japan,
0:01:34
the three questions he uses to help
0:01:36
people find what he calls their perfect
0:01:38
place, and the lessons his own father
0:01:40
taught him about putting faith, family,
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and friends first. Bill, thank you for
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joining us for the hundth episode of the
0:01:47
Servant Leadership Podcast.
Bill’s Gratitude
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Well, thanks so much, Chris. This is
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just it’s a real privilege and it’s an
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honor to be a part of the podcast and
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especially with it being the the hundth
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podcast. So, it’s great.
Chris’s Appreciation
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This is really special for me having my
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dad be our hundth episode. Uh you have
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modeled servant leadership to me since
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the day I was born. Uh so, I have
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learned a lot from you and this podcast
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wouldn’t exist without you. and behind
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the scenes you are helping a ton with
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the podcast. So, this is going to be a
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treat having you um
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for me too.
Bill’s Background
0:02:21
Fill in our audience. Tell us your
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background professionally and what your
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career journey looked like before we
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dive in.
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Yeah. Um
0:02:31
really a varied life. I think more
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varied than a lot of people actually. Um
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born and raised in the Detroit, northern
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Detroit suburbs. Uh, a great family. Um,
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Polish, Irish, Catholic, a great dad and
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mom, especially a great dad. Um, just
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really, really phenomenal. Um,
Sports and Table Tennis
0:02:55
I I played a lot of sports growing up.
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Uh, my dad coached my baseball team and
0:03:01
I I love playing baseball and football
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and basketball, hockey, but the sport I
0:03:07
really excelled in was table tennis. And
0:03:10
uh my dad was a a pretty decent table
0:03:13
tennis player. Learned playing table
0:03:15
tennis in the service. And he played in
0:03:17
a league in Pontiac, Michigan. And so at
0:03:20
the age of eight, I started to play in
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that league. Can you imagine an
0:03:24
eight-year-old playing in a league with
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adults? Crazy, actually. And by the time
0:03:29
I finished playing, I had uh had the
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opportunity to win
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quite a few state championships, um four
0:03:37
or five national championships, and to
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represent the United States in some
0:03:41
international competition. So that was
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really phenomenal. I started working for
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General Motors. Actually, I worked for
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GM for over 37 years. I started when I
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was 17 years old at Cadillac Motor.
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Crazy. I was a a freshman engineering
0:03:58
student. Uh the school I went to was
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General Motors Institute of Technology.
0:04:03
It’s now Ketaring and it’s a co-op where
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you go to school for six week, work for
0:04:08
six weeks all year round. It was a great
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experience. I loved working at Cadillac
0:04:12
during that time. And I did well enough
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that they sent me for my MBA and a
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fellowship when I got done. uh all
0:04:20
expenses paid which was great to the
0:04:22
University of Michigan and uh
0:04:26
really rewarding. The stuff I learned at
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Michigan was phenomenal and and then I
0:04:30
had a relationship with University of
0:04:32
Michigan actually became adjunct faculty
0:04:35
there for quite a few years which was
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really neat. Uh my time at General
0:04:39
Motors uh started out in engineering but
0:04:42
not in the product engineering side.
0:04:44
It’s more in the manufacturing
0:04:45
engineering. How do you build a car? How
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do you build an engine? And um then I
0:04:50
actually went out in the plant, worked
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out in the engine plant and the assembly
0:04:54
plant back and forth with engineering.
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Um and I had the privilege in 1989 1990
0:05:02
to help lead Cadillac’s application for
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the Malcolm Baldridge Award, which is
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the National Quality Award handed out at
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that time by the president of the United
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States.
Cadillac and Quality Awards
0:05:13
And uh what a phenomenal team experience
0:05:16
that was to do that. uh that kind of
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changed my career somewhat and that I
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got more involved in the quality side of
0:05:23
things and a lot of the rest of my my
0:05:26
career was oriented around quality. um
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ended up uh spending the last 10 years
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of my career overseas uh with uh four
0:05:36
years or so in Japan with as a
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coordinating uh the powertrain programs
0:05:42
with Isuzu and uh three years in
0:05:45
Australia um working for GM Holden as an
0:05:49
executive director there and uh then uh
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we ended up in Germany uh and my job was
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setting up plants in emerging markets.
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So, the career was phenomenal. Um, along
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the way, when I was uh uh at the end of
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my freshman year of college, I met
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Denise, who’s my wife, your mom,
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and uh we got married in the middle of
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my senior year of college. We’ve been
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married now for over 50 years, which is
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great.
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Wow.
0:06:18
Um yeah, two kids. You Heidi is 11 over
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11 years older than you. Um, in between
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we took care of Denise’s folks who who
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had uh uh some serious serious health
0:06:31
issues.
Leadership and Table Tennis
0:06:33
Well, we’re going to get into all kinds
0:06:34
of leadership topics and a lot of your
0:06:36
story. Uh, I’m curious, growing up, you
0:06:40
were like a table tennis prodigy. Uh,
0:06:42
you ended up being one of the best
0:06:43
players for your age group in the
0:06:45
country, winning a bunch of major
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tournaments, I think the US Open one
0:06:49
year. Like you you did a lot. uh talk
0:06:52
about how you learned to be good at a
0:06:56
sport and be play at the highest level.
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Yeah, it’s
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there’s a few things required I think to
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be good at and you have to have a
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national natural aptitude obviously but
0:07:10
um the amount of discipline you need. Uh
0:07:14
so playing table tennis uh growing up
0:07:18
from the time I was 13 until the time I
0:07:21
was 18 I probably
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averaged a thousand forehands every
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single day just hit for
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so it just becomes ingrained. Um, so the
0:07:34
skills part of it is important, but
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[snorts] what you find when you get to a
0:07:39
certain level is all the players have
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pretty decent skills in any sport or any
0:07:44
activity, whatever it might be. Um, and
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a lot of the rest of that comes down to
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mental. How do you mentally
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think about uh winning and competing and
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thinking ahead, outthinking other
0:07:59
people? Um, I know I’ve told you this in
0:08:02
the past that I was so competitive,
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probably too competitive actually, that
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one of my slogans was from u a famous
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Green Bay Packers coach, Vince Lombardi.
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And Vince used to say, “Show me a good
0:08:17
loser and I’ll show you a loser.”
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And so I was not a good loser at all.
0:08:24
Still not a very good loser, actually.
0:08:26
Um, but uh, so there’s a mental aspect
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to it. I mean, when I play table tennis,
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I didn’t just think about the shot I was
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going to hit. I thought about three or
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four shots in advance.
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So, if I serve the ball short to the
0:08:42
person’s backhand, they’re going to push
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the ball back deep to my backand. I’m
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going to turn around the corner, most
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likely hit a heavy top spin. They’re
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going to block it. you know, I mean,
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you’re thinking through all these in
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terms and that’s what you need to do to
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be able to to uh uh be at that level.
0:08:59
The other thing I remember reading
0:09:01
something where um about Michael Jordan
0:09:03
where if he missed a shot, he never even
0:09:06
thought about it again. It wasn’t and
0:09:08
that’s how I was. If I missed a shot, I
0:09:10
might think, well, what do I have to do
0:09:12
to kind of improve a little bit if I saw
0:09:14
a defect? But other than that, I never
0:09:16
thought about it again. It never
0:09:18
bothered me. So yeah, it and and the
0:09:22
opportunity to
0:09:26
the year that I was a junior table
0:09:29
tennis person at 18 and under um I
0:09:33
played in a tournament somewhere around
0:09:35
the country almost every single weekend.
0:09:37
Wow.
0:09:38
I never lost one match the whole year.
0:09:41
Not one match. So that’s uh that’s how
0:09:46
competitive and how much I really wasn’t
0:09:50
this could be wrong but wasn’t the
0:09:51
national title game weren’t you down
0:09:53
like two zero to Danny Sim Miller at
0:09:55
some point or what what was the story
0:09:57
there because you came back in a major
0:10:00
comeback win and Danny’s still one of
0:10:02
the all-time greats in table tennis.
0:10:04
Yeah, Danny is a friend and and honestly
0:10:07
probably the best American player that’s
0:10:09
ever lived. Um he’s an old person like
0:10:12
me now, but he still competes at the
0:10:14
high levels. It’s crazy how good he is.
0:10:17
Um I played him in the quarterfinals
0:10:19
actually
0:10:20
and he was up and uh uh
0:10:24
I think it was two games to zero or two
0:10:26
games to one and then I found a serve
0:10:30
that he could not return well.
0:10:32
And I just started to serve that serve
0:10:34
in that location every single time. My
0:10:38
buddies in the crowd that were around
0:10:40
watching that game started to really get
0:10:42
on him for missing and they’d clap when
0:10:44
he missed which is really sad you know I
0:10:47
mean really sad
0:10:48
so bad
0:10:48
but and he just you know he tightened up
0:10:51
and I ended up coming back and winning
0:10:54
in the finals what was interesting I
0:10:56
played a young man from Texas and it was
0:11:00
down in Atlanta at the Atlanta
0:11:02
Convention Center and they in it was on
0:11:06
it was being filmed
0:11:07
And I I’d love to get a copy of the
0:11:10
film, but in order to make it look so
0:11:12
nice, they wax the floors the night
0:11:15
before the finals in in this big
0:11:18
exhibition area. And when I play table
0:11:22
tennis, I hit 80% of the shots with my
0:11:25
forehand. So, I didn’t have a really
0:11:27
solid backhand and but I had a really
0:11:30
good forehand. So, I stood way over on
0:11:32
one side of the table. But that means
0:11:34
you got to move to cover the other side
0:11:36
of the table. And on a slippery floor,
0:11:40
that was not easy to do. So I lost the
0:11:43
first game to this man. And and I just
0:11:46
decided I couldn’t I had to change my
0:11:49
tactics. So what I did, and I had been
0:11:52
practicing this, so it ended up working.
0:11:54
Okay. I served the ball. He always
0:11:57
pushed it back under spin to my backhand
0:11:59
corner. I just turned around and hit it
0:12:01
as hard as I could. I mean, I just
0:12:03
smashed it and I was on. It started to
0:12:06
go on and so I won, but I won three
0:12:09
games to one, you know, in the finals,
0:12:11
but I had to change the tactic to what
0:12:13
we call a third ball attack.
0:12:15
Wow.
0:12:16
Yeah.
0:12:16
That’s awesome. Yeah.
Early Leadership Roles
0:12:17
Okay. So, you had a really fun sport
0:12:19
career and while all this was going on,
0:12:22
then you ended up uh doing co-op
0:12:25
programs, working and going to school.
0:12:27
Um, you found yourself at a young age in
0:12:30
some major leadership roles. Uh I I
0:12:33
forget what age, but at some point you
0:12:34
were helping run a plant, having never
0:12:38
run a plant before. Talk about your
0:12:40
first experience running a plant for
0:12:42
General Motors.
0:12:43
Crazy. They I you know, looking back, I
0:12:46
can’t believe they gave me the
0:12:47
responsibility that I had. Um General
0:12:50
Motors in the plants have always been
0:12:52
kind of a very rugged environment. Still
0:12:55
is kind of a rugged environment
0:12:57
actually, but I mean it used to really
0:12:59
be rugged. Um and they started a concept
0:13:03
where they called it the team concept
0:13:05
where you started to get the input from
0:13:07
the employees and rather than you know
0:13:09
do what I say don’t think type of thing
0:13:12
you actually got people to think and
0:13:14
have input you had team meetings you
0:13:15
tried to
0:13:16
get everybody aligned in the same
0:13:18
direction
0:13:19
and one of the feature plants it’s
0:13:21
written up in a number of books from
0:13:23
back in the early 80s was our Leavone
0:13:26
engine plant that made engines for
0:13:28
Cadillac and in order to have that new
0:13:31
environment, they figured they needed to
0:13:33
have a new type of management. So, they
0:13:36
they decided to open it up for anybody
0:13:39
at Cadillac that wanted to apply for the
0:13:41
job. And a lot of uh and this for a
0:13:44
first line supervisor type job. They
0:13:47
called it a team leader job. Um
0:13:51
people came from different organizations
0:13:54
to apply, but I was the only engineer
0:13:57
that went through the process. No other
0:13:59
engineer wanted to be in that
0:14:00
environment, I guess. So, I went through
0:14:02
and there was a whole assessment
0:14:04
process, a variety of exercises. I knew
0:14:06
I did really good. I mean, you just can
0:14:08
tell when you kind of it it’s your sweet
0:14:11
spot kind of.
0:14:12
And lo and behold, they named the
0:14:14
positions for the team leaders and I
0:14:18
didn’t get the job.
0:14:20
And everybody that I knew was like, see,
0:14:22
you shouldn’t even put yourself out
0:14:24
there. And well, I don’t know. I enjoyed
0:14:26
it going through the process. And who
0:14:28
knows what I didn’t know is I didn’t get
0:14:31
the team leader job, but they had given
0:14:33
me the job of like an assistant plant
0:14:34
manager. Um, so I had a quarter of the
0:14:38
plant reporting to me as a 27y old kid
0:14:42
having no production experience, no real
0:14:45
supervisor experience. I had just been a
0:14:47
senior engineer. Um, so I had no I
0:14:51
remember the first weekend on the job,
0:14:53
uh, some of my supervisors, this is a
0:14:56
brand new startup plan, so we’re just
0:14:58
trying to ramp up and get started.
0:15:00
Couple of my supervisors came in and
0:15:01
said, “See you in a week. We’re on
0:15:03
vacation.” I said, “Uh uh, who’s covered
0:15:05
for you?” And they said, “That’s your
0:15:07
problem, you know.” And they laughed and
0:15:09
I’m like, “Holy moly.” And and I didn’t
0:15:11
know all the data that you got and I
0:15:15
didn’t understand a lot of things. I
0:15:17
mean, just didn’t understand a lot of
0:15:18
things. What a tremendous growth as a
0:15:21
27y old kid. I mean, unbelievable.
Handling Leadership Challenges
0:15:24
Well, I feel like a lot of people get
0:15:25
thrown into leadership situations that
0:15:28
they they longed for, but then when they
0:15:31
get there, they realize they aren’t
0:15:32
ready for it. Uh, how’d you handle that?
0:15:35
Like, what were some of the things that
0:15:36
you’d recommend to people who are feel
0:15:38
like they’re in over their head?
0:15:40
Well, I had a guy that uh an interesting
0:15:44
guy. um they didn’t put him in a
0:15:46
leadership position because he was just
0:15:49
too
0:15:52
rough. He had too many rough edges. He
0:15:56
was older fellow um just really tough
0:15:59
guy. But at the start, even though I
0:16:02
didn’t have any training, I would walk
0:16:04
with him around the plant and it was
0:16:08
amazing what he could see that that I
0:16:11
didn’t see. He would see things out of
0:16:13
position. He would see oil on the floor
0:16:16
in a certain area. He would see people
0:16:18
who didn’t look like they were being
0:16:19
productive. He could see so much stuff.
0:16:23
And I saw how
0:16:26
when he was in the old plant, how he
0:16:28
managed somewhat. So for the first, I
0:16:31
don’t know, few months when people would
0:16:33
come to me to an issue with an issue,
0:16:36
what I would say to myself in my head is
0:16:40
what would Don do? His name was Don.
0:16:42
what would Don do in my head? And then I
0:16:45
would do what I thought that I didn’t
0:16:46
know what to do. So I would do what I
0:16:48
had seen Don do in those types of
0:16:50
situations. That was really helpful and
0:16:53
really helpful. And and then the whole
0:16:56
team that they put together for that
0:16:58
plant was amazing. Plant manager but was
0:17:00
a good friend. He was amazing. the other
0:17:03
assistant plant manager people were
0:17:06
really supportive and uh yeah it was a
0:17:09
it was a good environment but tough in
0:17:11
one year in the first year of that plant
0:17:13
startup for the whole year I had 13 days
0:17:16
off
0:17:18
that’s including weekends
0:17:20
Christmas everything 13 total days off
0:17:24
that first year of production pretty
0:17:26
crazy
Cadillac and Baldridge Award
0:17:27
wow that is crazy well you had this
0:17:30
really interesting career where where
0:17:31
you kept getting put in uh unique
0:17:34
positions maybe beyond what you were
0:17:37
expecting sooner than what you expected.
0:17:39
Uh at some point you ended up at
0:17:41
Cadillac and you were running and
0:17:44
helping run uh GM’s process for applying
0:17:48
for the Malcolm Baldridge Award which is
0:17:50
one of the most prestigious quality
0:17:52
awards in the world. Talk about how that
0:17:54
came to be.
0:17:56
Yeah, it’s it’s really a fascinating
0:17:58
story. The Baldridge Award was named
0:18:00
after Malcolm Baldridge who was the
0:18:02
commerce secretary and he died in office
0:18:06
through some accident. And they named
0:18:08
the quality award after him. And um they
0:18:13
started it in 1988
0:18:16
and when they started it, there was talk
0:18:18
within General Motors about General
0:18:21
Motors should have one of their
0:18:22
divisions apply for this.
0:18:25
And so a variety of different divisions
0:18:27
within General Motors kind of offered up
0:18:30
their proposal to apply for this. Uh
0:18:33
Cadillac was selected. We did not have a
0:18:36
quality department. It’s the funniest
0:18:38
thing. We were really followers at that
0:18:41
time of Dr. Edwards Deming. Uh you
0:18:44
probably I don’t know if you’ve even
0:18:46
heard of him.
0:18:46
You talked about Dr. Deming a lot.
0:18:48
He was a guy who really helped Japan get
0:18:51
back on its feet after World War II. And
0:18:54
so he had a really different philosophy
0:18:56
that kind of everybody’s responsible for
0:18:58
quality. That’s one of the things. So I
0:19:01
was in manufacturing, happened to be
0:19:03
working for the number two guy at
0:19:05
Cadillac and uh um
0:19:09
they appointed me to lead the process in
0:19:11
1989 and we got together a
0:19:14
representative from every department
0:19:16
about 30 people that got together every
0:19:19
night after our normal working hours. we
0:19:22
would go to a separate office building
0:19:23
that was uh I don’t know 10 miles away
0:19:27
and we would work after work and on the
0:19:30
weekends to try to get this application
0:19:33
done and then after the application we
0:19:36
then had to get ready for a site visit
0:19:39
if we made it that far where seven five
0:19:42
or six quality experts would come on
0:19:44
site and they were allowed for a week to
0:19:47
ask any employee any question to verify
0:19:49
what you put in your application.
0:19:51
The application was only 75 pages long.
0:19:54
Couldn’t be any more. So
0:19:56
we could I think our first application
0:19:58
was maybe 250 pages.
0:20:01
So you can imagine a lot of the work of
0:20:02
the leadership was how do you get 250
0:20:05
pages down to 75 and tell the story you
0:20:07
want to tell and provide the data that
0:20:09
you need to that you need to provide.
0:20:12
But that was a phenomenal experience. We
0:20:15
did not win in 1989. We knew we did
0:20:18
well. we knew we were close. So when
0:20:22
they came around in 1990, all of us were
0:20:24
pretty tired from it, although you can
0:20:26
imagine. And uh um but we decide to take
0:20:30
it on again. So the second year uh I I
0:20:34
and two other guys decided to be the
0:20:36
leaders. We were appointed to be the
0:20:38
leaders and uh and we won in 1990. Um it
0:20:43
was handed out by uh President Bush, the
0:20:45
first President Bush. Uh what a
0:20:47
tremendous tremendous uh
0:20:51
yeah what a tremendous the team and the
0:20:54
espreda core and people going well above
0:20:57
and beyond over and over again was
0:21:00
pretty amazing.
Lessons in Servant Leadership
0:21:01
Yeah I mean we talk about servant
0:21:03
leadership as you know on this podcast.
0:21:05
[clears throat] I’m curious what did you
0:21:07
learn running plans and what did you
0:21:09
learn in this process about servant
0:21:12
leadership because you started being in
0:21:13
charge of a lot of people that were in
0:21:16
really crucial roles.
0:21:18
Yeah. The uh I think it’s okay to say
0:21:21
there weren’t a lot of servant
0:21:22
leaderships servant leaders that I
0:21:25
worked with and for at that time in my
0:21:27
career. Not a lot. Um there was a lot of
0:21:30
management by fear
0:21:33
and um so
0:21:36
wasn’t easy trying to be a servant
0:21:39
leader necessarily at the time in a lot
0:21:42
of ways. Um I can remember when I worked
0:21:45
in assembly plant as one of the I ran uh
0:21:48
two of us ran final assembly uh to build
0:21:52
uh um Cadillacs and Yeah. And the uh it
0:21:58
was a tough environment probably I mean
0:22:02
if you can imagine
0:22:04
people using profanities 200 or 300
0:22:08
times a day about this far away from
0:22:10
your nose that’s a tough environment.
0:22:13
Um and and people thought I was too
0:22:18
soft maybe. Um, but we accomplished
0:22:22
phenomenal things. Just absolutely. And
0:22:24
and actually the funny part about that,
0:22:27
it was a tough tough job. Really tough
0:22:30
job.
0:22:32
When my name came up for a really large
0:22:34
promotion, this is maybe three or four
0:22:38
years down the line.
0:22:40
It was the fact that I survived in
0:22:43
[laughter] that environment. Not just
0:22:44
survived, but the plant became a model
0:22:46
plant for General Motors. And people
0:22:49
said if he can do that job he can do
0:22:51
anything you know and so that was it was
0:22:55
difficult while I was in the middle of
0:22:56
it but boy it turned out to be
0:22:58
phenomenal.
Becoming a Quality Expert
0:22:58
Well and without even realizing it you
0:23:00
were making a name for yourself or
0:23:02
people were making it for you of being
0:23:04
this quality expert right you became a
0:23:06
quality expert and so as your career
0:23:08
advanced you got put in some really
0:23:10
unique roles. Talk about maybe what the
0:23:13
next 10 15 years looked like because you
0:23:15
ended up all around the world. uh
0:23:18
serving in some really high capacity
0:23:20
roles.
0:23:21
Yeah. You know, and there’s a lot of
0:23:23
opportunities that came from from the
0:23:25
Baldridge Award and and I did become
0:23:27
kind of the quality quality guy. Um I
0:23:31
served as an examiner in a senior
0:23:33
examiner for that Baldridge quality
0:23:35
award for five years.
0:23:36
There was a Michigan quality award as
0:23:38
well that I was a senior examiner for a
0:23:40
judge for actually. Um the University of
0:23:45
Michigan asked me to come in and be our
0:23:47
adjunct faculty running programs talking
0:23:50
about quality and quality management,
0:23:52
strategic quality management. What an
0:23:54
opportunity that was. Wow. And and then
0:23:58
I started to get job, you know, within
0:24:00
General Motors. I had just a phenomenal
0:24:03
job as uh a director of quality for
0:24:06
powertrain, GM powertrain, which makes
0:24:09
engines and transmissions and all the
0:24:11
components that go into an engine and
0:24:13
transmission.
0:24:14
26 plants including foundaries and
0:24:17
component manufacturing and things that
0:24:20
really needed uh total revamp. Total and
0:24:25
uh what a phenomenal opportunity.
0:24:27
Unbelievable. I mean, I used to come
0:24:30
home and say to Denise, uh, I used to
0:24:33
say, I think I changed General Motors
0:24:35
today. Just me. I mean, and it wasn’t
0:24:38
like, I changed. It was like, I can’t
0:24:40
even believe it. The things that we did
0:24:42
and the changes in quality approach to
0:24:46
make it a much more preventative
0:24:48
approach
0:24:49
um was just revolutionary in the
0:24:52
company. It was really great. Well,
0:24:56
after doing that in 1999,
0:24:59
um
0:25:01
they gave me a sheet of paper one day
0:25:03
during the summer and said, “Fill out
0:25:05
this sheet of paper, Bill. You’ve been”
0:25:07
and I was an executive already in 25
0:25:09
years with the company, but it was
0:25:11
you’ve been in Metro Detroit area pretty
0:25:13
much your whole career. Um if you want
0:25:16
to go up higher, you got to go outside
0:25:18
of this area. So, take this home, fill
0:25:20
this out, and bring it back. So, I took
0:25:22
it home, talked to Denise, and Denise is
0:25:25
like, “I don’t want to move.” And I’m
0:25:27
like, “Well, I don’t really want to move
0:25:29
either, you know.” Um, so, but we got to
0:25:32
fill it out. We don’t have to take it.
0:25:34
We got to fill it out. So, we put down
0:25:36
some things like we were really involved
0:25:39
in a lot. I was on a schoolboard
0:25:41
chairman for 15 years teaching them uh a
0:25:45
class at church that was a really
0:25:47
popular class. Um,
0:25:50
our family was doing well. Uh, it just
0:25:53
everything was going right. So, we put
0:25:55
down we’d be willing to go some places
0:25:58
in the United States, Western Europe,
0:26:01
uh, but specifically we wrote down not
0:26:03
Asia. And it wasn’t that we had anything
0:26:06
about Asia, but it was that it’s just so
0:26:09
different culture, you know. So, we put
0:26:12
that down there. Well, about two months
0:26:14
later on a Monday morning, my boss calls
0:26:16
me into his office and he says, “Bill,
0:26:18
there’s a position opening up to be in
0:26:21
the coordination with Isuzu in Japan and
0:26:25
uh um you’re not going to get the job.”
0:26:28
He started out that way, but uh I think
0:26:32
you should interview because you’re
0:26:33
going to get exposure, different people
0:26:35
get a chance to meet you. It probably be
0:26:37
a good opportunity for you. So, this is
0:26:40
Monday morning. He says, “I need to know
0:26:41
by Thursday night whether you even want
0:26:43
to be considered because the strategy
0:26:45
board’s going to meet and they’re going
0:26:46
to pick the interview pool on Friday.”
0:26:49
And so, you know, we need to know. So, I
0:26:52
went back to my office, called Denise
0:26:54
and told her there’s like dead silence
0:26:57
on the phone. And then she says, “Didn’t
0:27:00
they read the paper you
Denise’s Unexpected Prayer
27:02
know we filled out?” I says, “Yeah, I don’t know. I I’m
Job Consideration
27:05
not going to get the job anyways, but
Praying for Guidance
27:07
let’s at least consider it, pray about
Denise’s Unique Prayer
27:09
it over the next few days. And there’s a
Unforeseen Circumstances
27:11
lot of circumstances that happened. But
Denise’s Mind-Boggling Prayer
27:14
probably the most amazing circumstance that happened was
Denise’s Reluctance
27:16
how Denise prayed. She prayed,
Going to the Moon
27:19
you know, I don’t want this job
Writing in the Sky
27:23
or this move. It’d be like um going to
Denise’s Heartfelt Prayer
27:26
the moon almost. So, if you really are
Denise’s Bold Request
27:30
serious about wanting it, you’re going
Denise’s Reluctance
27:34
to have to make it mind-boggling clear
Denise’s Heart Change
27:35
and you’re going to have to write it in
Denise’s Prayer Answered
27:38
the sky. Denise, go to Japan. And and
Denise’s Reluctance
27:40
even then, I’d probably say no because
Denise’s Good Life
27:43
we had a pretty good life. We’re willing
Denise’s Heart Change
27:47
to take second best. So, not only that,
Denise’s Heart Change
27:49
not only right in the sky, you’re going
Denise’s Heart Change
27:52
to have to change my heart.
Denise’s Prayer
27:54
So,
Denise’s Prayer
27:57
and that was her prayer.
Denise’s Prayer
27:58
That was her prayer. Yeah.
Denise’s Crazy Prayer
28:00
Yeah. Pretty crazy prayer.
Denise’s Experience
28:02
I guess, and I didn’t know it at the
Denise’s Experience
28:04
time, on Wednesday or Thursday, um,
Denise’s Experience
28:08
she’s driving in the car and praying
Denise’s Experience
28:11
kind of about it and she feels this kind
Denise’s Experience
28:13
of a presence come behind her while
Denise’s Experience
28:16
she’s driving in the car. You know, you
Denise’s Experience
28:18
or somebody walks up behind you and you
Denise’s Experience
28:20
kind of know they’re there, but you
Denise’s Experience
28:22
don’t really,
Denise’s Experience
28:23
you know, you don’t see the person. And
Denise’s Experience
28:27
then there was a voice that wasn’t uh an
Denise’s Experience
28:30
audible voice but a clear voice to her
Denise’s Experience
28:32
heart and her mind that said Denise are
Denise’s Experience
28:36
you willing to leave the comforts of
Denise’s Experience
28:38
home for the soul of one person.
Denise’s Experience
28:44
And surprisingly her reaction was of
Denise’s Heart Change
28:47
course I am. And when she said that, her
Denise’s Heart Change
28:52
heart was changed.
Denise’s Heart Change
28:54
And she’s like, “Okay.” And there were a
Denise’s Heart Change
28:57
few other things that were this presence
Denise’s Heart Change
29:00
said to her. Uh and and one of them was,
Denise’s Heart Change
29:03
“Write down what you’re sensing right
Denise’s Heart Change
29:05
now.” So, uh she said, “I don’t need to
Denise’s Heart Change
29:08
write it down. I’ll never forget this.”
Denise’s Heart Change
29:10
You know, can you an encounter with an
Denise’s Heart Change
29:13
almighty being? I mean, you don’t think
Denise’s Heart Change
29:15
you’re going to forget that.
Denise’s Heart Change
29:16
No, you’re going to need it. So, she
Denise’s Heart Change
29:18
took out she had a notebook in the car
Denise’s Heart Change
29:20
and while she’s driving, she’s writing
Denise’s Heart Change
29:22
down what just happened, you know, and
Denise’s Heart Change
29:25
uh she didn’t tell me at all what
Denise’s Heart Change
29:28
happened. It’s just on Thursday, she
Denise’s Heart Change
29:30
said, “I think you should go ahead and
Denise’s Heart Change
29:32
put your name in.” I said, “Really? I’m
Denise’s Heart Change
29:35
kind of surprised, you know, I just
Denise’s Heart Change
29:37
think you should.” So, I called my boss
Denise’s Heart Change
29:39
or left a message. Okay, go ahead and
Denise’s Heart Change
29:42
put my name in the pot. So, um, Friday
Denise’s Heart Change
29:46
comes all day. I’m a little on edge
Denise’s Heart Change
29:49
wondering what’s going on. And I’m on my
Denise’s Heart Change
29:51
way home. It’s late. I’m listening to
Denise’s Heart Change
29:53
voicemails. Those were days when every
Denise’s Heart Change
29:55
all the communication was by voicemail.
Denise’s Heart Change
29:57
Uh and the last voicemail was my boss.
Denise’s Heart Change
30:01
And he said, “The strategy board met
Denise’s Heart Change
30:02
today and uh they made a a very unusual
Denise’s Heart Change
30:06
decision. They decided not to interview
Denise’s Heart Change
30:08
anybody for the position. They selected
Denise’s Heart Change
30:11
you
Denise’s Heart Change
30:17
and I’m like I’m already pulled into the
Denise’s Heart Change
30:19
subdivision at the house thinking wait
Denise’s Heart Change
30:21
I’ve told Denise over and over again
Denise’s Heart Change
30:23
we’re don’t worry I’m not being consider
Denise’s Heart Change
30:26
other senior people were being
Denise’s Heart Change
30:28
considered for this position. So, I get
Denise’s Heart Change
30:31
home and she’s already fixing dinner and
Denise’s Heart Change
30:33
I don’t want to address it till after
Denise’s Heart Change
30:35
dinner, you know, and so I’m I’m just
Denise’s Heart Change
30:38
walking around and she says, “Well, did
Denise’s Heart Change
30:40
you hear anything about the position?”
Denise’s Heart Change
30:42
And I’m like, “Uh, uh, well, yeah, I
Denise’s Heart Change
30:45
did.” She said, “Well, what’d you hear?”
Denise’s Heart Change
30:47
Uh, well, I heard that they’re not going
Denise’s Heart Change
30:49
to interview for the position. They’re
Denise’s Heart Change
30:52
not going to fill that position. She
Denise’s Heart Change
30:53
says, “I can’t believe they’re not going
Denise’s Heart Change
30:55
to fill that position.” I says, “No, I
Denise’s Heart Change
30:57
didn’t say that. That’s not what I
Denise’s Heart Change
30:59
said.” And she said, “Well, what are you
Denise’s Heart Change
31:01
talking about then?” I said, “They
Denise’s Heart Change
31:03
they’re not going to interview at all.
Denise’s Heart Change
31:05
They’ve selected us to go
Denise’s Heart Change
31:09
us.” I mean, talk about craziness. At
Denise’s Heart Change
31:12
that point, um,
Denise’s Heart Change
31:16
at that point, my folks had passed away.
Denise’s Heart Change
31:19
Denise’s folks had passed away. We had
Denise’s Heart Change
31:21
all their stuff stored at our house. I
Denise’s Heart Change
31:23
mean, boxes, thousands of boxes and
Denise’s Heart Change
31:26
stuff for their stuff.
Denise’s Heart Change
31:29
um it wasn’t going to be easy to move.
Denise’s Heart Change
31:31
Heidi had just started college um at at
Denise’s Heart Change
31:36
Taylor University. She was a freshman. I
Denise’s Heart Change
31:38
mean, there was a big concern about
Denise’s Heart Change
31:40
that. So, we decided we wouldn’t
Denise’s Heart Change
31:43
actually move till after Y2K. So, the
Denise’s Heart Change
31:45
end of January of 2000, um Y2K, you
Denise’s Heart Change
31:50
know, there was a lot of oh, things
Denise’s Heart Change
31:52
might happen, you know, when the clock
Denise’s Heart Change
31:53
switches um to to 2000. So, we wanted to
Denise’s Heart Change
31:57
wait until all that got settled out. So,
Denise’s Heart Change
32:00
in the meantime, because I got the
Denise’s Heart Change
32:02
assignment as of October 1st of 99, and
Denise’s Heart Change
32:06
I commuted, I was commuting back and
Denise’s Heart Change
32:09
forth to Japan. Um, and and in this job,
Denise’s Heart Change
32:13
I had to travel to Europe twice a month.
Denise’s Heart Change
32:14
I had to go other places in Asia quite
Denise’s Heart Change
32:16
often. Um, and so I’ I’d go there for a
Denise’s Heart Change
32:20
week or two, and then I’d come back and
Denise’s Heart Change
32:22
help get packed and then do the same
Denise’s Heart Change
32:24
thing. And uh pretty crazy time you can
Denise’s Heart Change
32:28
imagine. Um trying to get rid of
Denise’s Heart Change
32:30
everything, get stuff in storage, sell
Denise’s Heart Change
32:32
your house. I mean, figure out a house
Denise’s Heart Change
32:35
to live in in Japan. And I mean, all
Denise’s Heart Change
32:38
that stuff we had to do was pretty
Denise’s Heart Change
32:40
crazy. Um the last weekend of January,
Denise’s Heart Change
32:43
we left to go to Japan. And um
Denise’s Heart Change
32:49
it was a tough time, especially to leave
Denise’s Heart Change
32:51
Heidi in college. and she brought up her
Denise’s Heart Change
32:53
best friend Ashley uh to um to see us
Denise’s Heart Change
32:58
off the airport on that last Super Bowl
Denise’s Heart Change
33:00
Sunday, Super Bowl weekend at least. And
Denise’s Heart Change
33:03
uh so we uh drove to the airport, lot of
Denise’s Heart Change
33:08
tears, lot of tears. Got on the plane.
Denise’s Heart Change
33:12
Um
Denise’s Heart Change
33:14
by the time we arrived in Japan, it was
Denise’s Heart Change
33:17
Sunday night. Um because you lose lose a
Denise’s Heart Change
33:20
day. And so we went to bed, drove home,
Denise’s Heart Change
33:23
went to bed, uh got up the next morning
Denise’s Heart Change
33:25
on Monday, and I was just putting around
Denise’s Heart Change
33:27
and we get a call from Sparrow Hospital
Denise’s Heart Change
33:30
in Lancing that our daughter Heidi had
Denise’s Heart Change
33:33
been in a serious car accident our way
Denise’s Heart Change
33:35
back to Indiana. Uh the road uh
Denise’s Heart Change
33:40
it went with a black ice situation. Lots
Denise’s Heart Change
33:43
of cars off. Um their car happened when
Denise’s Heart Change
33:45
it went off the road, hit a bridge
Denise’s Heart Change
33:47
abutman, and Ashley was killed. M
Denise’s Heart Change
33:49
Heidi was in intensive care. Um
Denise’s Heart Change
33:55
we hadn’t unpacked
Denise’s Heart Change
33:57
I mean nothing and
Denise’s Heart Change
33:59
we’re on the other side of the world. Um
Denise’s Heart Change
34:04
so we figured out how to get the last
Denise’s Heart Change
34:08
three seats on a flight back to back to
Denise’s Heart Change
34:11
America. Um when my dad died a few years
Denise’s Heart Change
34:15
before that I started to have panic
Denise’s Heart Change
34:17
attacks, anxiety attacks. So they kicked
Denise’s Heart Change
34:19
in big time. I thought they were going
Denise’s Heart Change
34:21
to have to literally handcuff me on the
Denise’s Heart Change
34:24
plane almost. It was that bad. It was
Denise’s Heart Change
34:26
really, really bad. I was sitting in the
Denise’s Heart Change
34:28
middle of the back row of 747, five
Denise’s Heart Change
34:31
seats across. I’m in the middle seat
Denise’s Heart Change
34:33
with two huge football player types next
Denise’s Heart Change
34:35
to me like this. Oh man, it was just a
Denise’s Heart Change
34:38
disaster.
Denise’s Heart Change
34:39
um
Denise’s Heart Change
34:41
got back obviously when we got to the
Denise’s Heart Change
34:43
hospital Heidi was okay physically but
Denise’s Heart Change
34:47
you know her best friend had passed away
Denise’s Heart Change
34:49
and Heidi was driving so that was really
Denise’s Heart Change
34:52
really emotional
Denise’s Heart Change
34:55
funeral was tough after the funeral to
Denise’s Heart Change
34:57
school Taylor said she probably
Denise’s Heart Change
34:59
shouldn’t come back to school but Heidi
Denise’s Heart Change
35:01
no I really would like to go back to
Denise’s Heart Change
35:03
school I think I think my support group
Denise’s Heart Change
35:06
is strong enough I’d like to Hi. So, the
Denise’s Heart Change
35:09
school gave us in a little apartment on
Denise’s Heart Change
35:11
campus. We put you in a little local
Denise’s Heart Change
35:13
school to be able to at least get some
Denise’s Heart Change
35:15
education while we’re waiting to figure
Denise’s Heart Change
35:16
out what’s going on. And we are there
Denise’s Heart Change
35:18
about two or three weeks. And General
Denise’s Heart Change
35:21
Motors obviously says, “Bill, what are
Denise’s Heart Change
35:22
you going to do?” You know, I mean, what
Denise’s Heart Change
35:25
are you going to do? Well, I I didn’t
Denise’s Heart Change
35:27
want to go back. We had already sold our
Denise’s Heart Change
35:29
house. All of our stuff was on the ship
Denise’s Heart Change
35:31
going over. We had sold our cars. I
Denise’s Heart Change
35:33
mean, we had nothing. But I mean, I just
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35:36
didn’t think I could handle it. So, but
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35:38
Denise said, “Bill, I think we need to
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35:41
go to Japan.” Which I was really
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35:43
surprised she was that strong. And Heidi
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35:46
was like, “Dad, I can handle it. Go.”
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35:50
So, I left you and I left mom Denise at
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35:55
at the school for another week or two
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35:57
and I went back to Japan. It was hell
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36:00
for me to go back. Just even driving
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36:03
from Indiana to Metro Airport, Detroit
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36:06
Metro, I screamed and hollered at God
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36:08
the whole way that God, I gave you my
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36:12
number one concern was Heidi and he
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36:15
didn’t even handle that for one day, not
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36:17
even one day properly. And uh I was
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36:20
really shook up by the time I got to
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36:22
Japan. I couldn’t sleep at night. Um
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36:26
yeah, I couldn’t sleep at all. It was
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36:28
crazy. Some people came to try to help
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36:31
from Japan there. It’s a long story, but
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36:33
they tried to help. Didn’t help. So,
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36:36
after about four or five days, I’m like,
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36:39
I can’t make it. And uh decide to talk
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36:42
to Denise and say, “Hey, I just can’t
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36:44
make it.” And she said, “Bill, we’re
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36:46
we’re supposed to be in Japan.”
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36:49
And after she said it two or three
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36:51
times, I said, “How do you know? How do
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36:53
you know we’re supposed to be in Japan?”
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36:56
She said, ‘Go up to the suitcase, which
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36:58
was still not packed, unpacked, rummage
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37:01
through this one suitcase, find the
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37:03
notebook that wrote down. And in that
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37:05
voice had told her, “You’re going to
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37:06
need this day be written down.” She
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37:08
thought, “I’ll never need it to be
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37:09
written down. I’ll remember it for the
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37:11
rest of my life.”
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37:12
It wasn’t for her. It was for me. So, I
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37:15
flipped it and there was the statement,
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37:17
“Are you willing to leave the comforts
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37:19
of home for the soul of one person?”
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37:22
And that was the beginning of the click
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37:25
in my mind.
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37:28
And the major reason was because we were
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37:31
I realized that we were called
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37:34
to be there. It wasn’t just General
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37:36
Motors sending us an assignment. We were
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37:39
called to be there. When you’re called,
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37:40
you can put up with a lot of stuff.
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37:42
And that was the beginning of the
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37:43
healing for me.
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37:45
Yeah. That’s a powerful story.
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37:47
Really? Well, one of the things that I
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37:49
think is interesting about just being
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37:51
assigned to something versus being
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37:52
called to something is especially in the
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37:54
servant leadership lens
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37:57
often when you’re leading, you want to
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37:59
be outfront and you want it to be about
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38:01
you. When you feel called to something,
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38:03
you’re there to serve.
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38:04
Uh, and you have to humble yourself to
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38:06
serve whatever that calling is. Uh, it’s
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38:08
why we look at a lot of great service
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38:10
men and women as great servant leaders
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38:13
because they’re there to serve. uh it’s
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38:14
not about them, it’s about the other
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38:16
people they’re there to serve. Um you
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38:18
had some fascinating stories, tons of
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38:20
them I know in Japan, but is there any
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38:22
that stand out to you that you’re like,
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38:24
“Hey, this is a really cool opportunity
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38:26
that we had to serve um at any
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38:29
capacity.” Oh, there’s
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38:33
one of the interesting things about our
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38:35
four years there was
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38:38
uh the miracles we saw happen things
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38:42
that were just
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38:44
unbelievable. And I don’t mean miracles
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38:46
of you know somebody that’s couldn’t
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38:49
walk get up and walk. Not that type of
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38:52
miracle. I’m talking about
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38:52
transformation in people’s lives. M
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38:55
so great example is the first Sunday uh
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38:58
you and Denise had been back in Japan
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39:02
for 4 days maybe. Um I decided we’d go
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39:06
to this little church that I tried. Um
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39:10
and uh it was on the third or fourth
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39:12
story of an office building. It had
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39:14
maybe 70 people, but it had a kids
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39:16
program. You were 70 years old at the
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39:18
time. So it’s like um okay, at least
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39:21
there’s something Chris can do. So, we
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39:23
went to this dropped you off the kids
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39:25
program and we’re starting to go into
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39:27
the church service and people are notice
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39:30
a stranger, right? And so, they’re
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39:31
stopping us and talk. All of a sudden,
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39:33
there’s this young lady, her early 20s
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39:36
or so, walks up and she’s Japanese
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39:39
looking, but she speaks perfect English.
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39:42
It almost it almost is a shocking thing
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39:44
because Japanese, even people who study
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39:47
English their whole life, they don’t
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39:49
usually speak without a strong accent or
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39:51
strong
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39:53
Yeah. And so she spoke it perfectly and
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39:56
she introduced herself. Her name was
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39:58
Emily. And while we’re just getting to
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40:00
know her a little bit, the voice that
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40:02
had spoke to Denise said to Denise said,
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40:06
“Tell her tell Emily I love her.”
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40:10
So out of the blue, and Denise is not I
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40:13
mean I’m telling you this stuff, she’s
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40:15
she grew up in a really conservative
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40:19
Christian environment. It’s not a lot of
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40:23
you know, so she’s not that sort of a
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40:24
person at all. And and she uh so she
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40:28
says, “Emily, I just think I need to
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40:30
tell you God loves you.” And uh Emily is
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40:33
okay. Thanks. You know, really quiet
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40:36
like most Japanese people are when you
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40:38
do something like that. And uh so start
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40:42
the conversation. The voice says to her
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40:43
again, “Tell her again, I love her.”
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40:47
So Denise again says, “Emily, I I just
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40:50
want to tell you God loves you.” And so
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40:53
Emily is okay. Still no re reaction. And
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40:58
I’m now kind of looking at Denise like,
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40:59
“You just met this person, you know.”
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41:02
And the voice says, “Tell her one more
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41:04
time.” So Denise is like, I’m like, “No,
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41:08
I just really need to reinforce tell you
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41:10
that God loves you.” Well, now I’m
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41:12
looking at Denise like, “What is going
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41:15
on?” you know. So, service is about to
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41:18
start. So, we get seated. Emily sits in
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41:20
a different part of the the auditorium
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41:22
and uh and as we get ready to start
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41:25
singing, Denise sits back down and she’s
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41:29
crying. Denise never cries. I’m the
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41:31
crier in the family. I mean, I cry in
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41:32
McDonald’s commercials sometimes, you
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41:34
know? I mean, it’s just
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41:37
she she just is stoic and and so she’s
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41:40
crying. I’m wondering what’s going on
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41:41
with her. And she’s writing and what is
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41:44
right? She’s writing a note to Emily, as
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41:46
it turns out. And it and the note just
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41:49
said, “I just need to reinforce strongly
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41:52
that God loves you and he has a plan for
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41:54
your life.” And as Denise is sitting
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41:57
there, she’s saying, “Hey, God, you love
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42:00
everybody. You have a plan for
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42:02
everybody’s life. Give me something
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42:04
specific to write down.”
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42:07
Nothing came. So, she didn’t write
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42:09
anything else other than that. folded up
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42:11
the note, stood up, and she says, “When
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42:13
we’re done, after service, I need to
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42:15
hand this to Emily.” Okay, fine. So,
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42:18
service ends. Um Denise runs up, gives
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42:22
Emily the note, doesn’t talk with her at
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42:24
all, just says, “Read this.” And then
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42:27
comes to me, and we’re going to leave
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42:29
pretty quick, but people stopped us
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42:31
because we’re new and they wanted to say
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42:33
hi. Things like that. So, we we’re just
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42:36
about ready to go out and up comes Emily
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42:38
and she’s got this note and she’s
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42:40
holding it like next to her heart and
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42:42
she says, “You don’t know me.” She says,
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42:44
“You don’t know what I’ve gone through.”
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42:46
As it turns out, after she had graduated
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42:50
from college, she went to Europe against
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42:53
her parents’ wishes, got into some
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42:56
horrible trouble. Really bad things
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42:58
happened to her. I don’t want to go into
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43:00
it, but really, she felt like she ruined
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43:02
her life. And so she had come back to
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43:05
Japan um was suicidal. She tried to
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43:08
commit suicide a number of times and um
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43:14
we didn’t know the backstory at that
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43:15
point which we learned. So she’s holding
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43:18
this and she says, “You don’t know my
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43:19
life. You don’t know what’s going on
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43:20
with me.” But
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43:24
I lay in bed at night and I say, “God,
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43:26
can you love me? My mom tells me you
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43:29
love me. This pastor of this church
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43:31
tells me you love me.
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43:33
But I don’t think you can ever love me.
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43:35
God, please send a messenger
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43:38
to tell me that you love me.
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43:43
She says, I’m going to treasure treasure
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43:45
this note for the rest of my life.
Denise’s Heart Change
43:48
As it turns out, while we were there, we
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43:50
kind of adopted her somewhat. She was at
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43:52
our house a lot, part of our Bible
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43:54
studies. Denise would take her shopping,
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43:56
do different things with her. Um, up and
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43:59
that’s how long ago? 25 years ago, more
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44:02
than that, we’re still got a
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44:04
relationship with her. It, you know, and
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44:06
we still talk to Emily. Um, when she
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44:09
goes through difficult times, we might
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44:12
get on a a web call with her and talk to
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44:14
her and she’ll say that that note
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44:18
changed her life.
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44:20
Can you imagine? I mean, and there’s
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44:23
multiple dozens of stories similar to
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44:26
that. That’s what I’m talking about.
Denise’s Heart Change
44:27
Yeah. And it kind of goes back to what
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44:30
Denise heard of. Would you be willing to
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44:32
leave the comforts of home for the soul
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44:33
of one person, right? And there were
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44:35
lots of ones.
Denise’s Heart Change
44:36
Lots of ones. Isn’t that a crazy thing?
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44:38
She thought at that point her mission
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44:40
was done.
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44:41
Okay, I’ve touched the one.
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44:44
You know, but what we found out through
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44:46
all that time was there were other times
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44:49
where she’d be have a relationship and
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44:51
the voice would say, “This is the one.
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44:54
This is the one.” And that’s what the
Denise’s Heart Change
44:57
voice said to her. I forgot to even
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44:58
mention it. That’s what the voice said
Denise’s Heart Change
45:00
to her when she told Emily to begin with
Denise’s Heart Change
45:03
that I love you. The voice said, “This
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45:04
is the one. Tell her that I love her.”
Denise’s Heart Change
45:07
So, and Denise was a bit confused until
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45:10
she realized that God’s got lots of
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45:12
ones. Lots of ones. It says, “Heaven
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45:16
rejoices
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45:17
when one person, one single person comes
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45:21
to know Jesus.
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45:24
Heaven rejoices.”
Denise’s Heart Change
45:26
And uh yeah.
Denise’s Heart Change
45:28
Yeah. [snorts] Well, those are some
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45:30
really cool stories. Um while you were
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45:33
in Japan, you were there for four years
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45:35
on a work assignment. Uh as the
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45:38
interface between Isuzu and General
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45:41
Motors trying to help with diesel
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45:43
engines and a lot of other stuff. What
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45:45
was it like going to another country and
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45:48
now being in a leadership role? And what
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45:51
did those four years in Japan teach you
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45:53
about leadership?
Denise’s Heart Change
45:54
Oh, the cultures are so different. the
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45:56
global cultures are so different. How
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45:59
people’s expectations, people’s
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46:01
understandings. I went to a meeting in
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46:04
uh in Frankfurt, Germany at Opel
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46:06
headquarters before I was named the
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46:08
position officially. I knew I was going
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46:09
to get the position. Nobody else in the
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46:11
company knew.
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46:12
They asked me to attend a meeting
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46:14
between Isuzu and the European people
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46:17
that was Opel and Saab and some of Fiat
Denise’s Heart Change
46:21
um that were there to go through the
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46:22
programs, all the programs that they
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46:24
had. M Isuzu was General Motors named
Denise’s Heart Change
46:28
General Motors a diesel center of
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46:30
expertise. So all the diesel programs,
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46:33
the gloal diesel programs, Isuzu was put
Denise’s Heart Change
46:36
in charge of all of them were behind
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46:38
schedule. Every single one over budget,
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46:40
behind schedule. So that’s why I ended
Denise’s Heart Change
46:41
up in in Japan to try to get control of
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46:45
that. Um, so the first meeting I go to
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46:48
is at Opel headquarters and I was just
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46:52
sitting in the back of the room watching
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46:53
for two days and I was shocked. I mean
Denise’s Heart Change
46:57
the the Isuza people tried to present
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47:00
the status of what was going on. The
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47:03
Europeans, especially the Germans that
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47:05
were in the room, wanted nothing to hear
Denise’s Heart Change
47:06
about it. They treated they abused him.
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47:09
I mean really tough. Um, the Isuza
Denise’s Heart Change
47:13
people never fought back. They they
Denise’s Heart Change
47:15
never fought back. In fact, later on
Denise’s Heart Change
47:18
after I got the position and stuff, when
Denise’s Heart Change
47:20
they used to have to go to visit with
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47:22
those people, they would say, “Lester
Denise’s Heart Change
47:24
son, please go with us.” Because they
Denise’s Heart Change
47:26
knew I wouldn’t take it. I mean, I would
Denise’s Heart Change
47:28
have gone absolutely crazy in that
Denise’s Heart Change
47:30
meeting and they just were quiet. In a
Denise’s Heart Change
47:33
lot of cases,
Denise’s Heart Change
47:35
the Europeans took that while the
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47:37
Japanese finally agreed with us. The
Denise’s Heart Change
47:40
programs weren’t behind schedule to a
Denise’s Heart Change
47:41
large extent because of Isuzu. they were
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47:43
behind because the GM of Europe people
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47:46
couldn’t make decisions
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47:48
to give them the proper direction. So
Denise’s Heart Change
47:51
Isuzu shouldn’t have been taking all the
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47:53
crap that they took. Um and but I
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47:57
realized there what a cultural
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47:58
difference.
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48:00
Like I said, the Europeans thought they
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48:02
convinced Isuzu. They didn’t convince
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48:04
Isuzu at all. They’re just quiet. They
Denise’s Heart Change
48:07
went back to do their job the normal way
Denise’s Heart Change
48:09
they were going to do their job. It
Denise’s Heart Change
48:10
didn’t matter what the thought was. So
Denise’s Heart Change
48:13
all of a sudden you begin to see the
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48:14
cultural differences
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48:16
and the cultural differences are really
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48:19
uh amazing and that’s what made the job
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48:21
kind of fun too. I mean difficult but
Denise’s Heart Change
48:24
fun you know as well to learn about all
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48:26
the different
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48:27
uh cultures and their approach and their
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48:30
um yeah
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48:33
so you were in Japan for four years
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48:34
helping lead this program. At some point
Denise’s Heart Change
48:37
you ended up back in the states uh in at
Denise’s Heart Change
48:40
General Motors, still back in the States
Denise’s Heart Change
48:42
and GM then brought up going to
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48:46
Australia to help lead quality at one of
Denise’s Heart Change
48:48
the most iconic car companies in
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48:50
Australia ever, Holden, um that General
Denise’s Heart Change
48:53
Motors owned. Talk about the journey
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48:55
that led to Australia and what your role
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48:57
looked like in Australia.
Denise’s Heart Change
48:59
Yeah, the pretty fascinating. uh when we
Denise’s Heart Change
49:01
went back to the United States, one of
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49:03
the interesting things is the people in
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49:05
America didn’t realize
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49:08
all that it went through. There was a
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49:10
lot of turmoil in General Motors uh that
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49:13
impacted Isuzu. Uh GM had a joint
Denise’s Heart Change
49:15
venture with Fiat and the Fiat products
Denise’s Heart Change
49:18
overlapped with the Isuzu products and
Denise’s Heart Change
49:21
so there was a lot of question about do
Denise’s Heart Change
49:24
we even need Isuzu? Uh they were
Denise’s Heart Change
49:26
supposed to send a team of people over
Denise’s Heart Change
49:27
to support me. The team never came
Denise’s Heart Change
49:29
because they felt like Fiat was going to
Denise’s Heart Change
49:32
take everything over and I was the one
Denise’s Heart Change
49:34
lone voice within General Motors saying
Denise’s Heart Change
49:37
we can’t live without a Isuzu and what
Denise’s Heart Change
49:39
they’re doing. And as it turns out, we
Denise’s Heart Change
49:41
couldn’t. Fiat had promised people that
Denise’s Heart Change
49:44
didn’t understand the business of what
Denise’s Heart Change
49:46
they could do. But the the fuel economy
Denise’s Heart Change
49:49
requirements and the weight requirements
Denise’s Heart Change
49:51
and the emissions requirements and the
Denise’s Heart Change
49:53
power requirements, there’s no way that
Denise’s Heart Change
49:55
Fiat could take on all those products.
Denise’s Heart Change
49:57
we needed Isuzu to. So, there was a lot
Denise’s Heart Change
50:00
of conflict during that and and uh yeah,
Denise’s Heart Change
50:06
crazy work hours again. Um and crazy
Denise’s Heart Change
50:09
travel hours. Um so when I went back to
Denise’s Heart Change
50:12
the United States, I figured I’d be
Denise’s Heart Change
50:14
going back and everybody’s like, “Wow,
Denise’s Heart Change
50:15
you know, wow.” But what they said is,
Denise’s Heart Change
50:17
“Oh, you wasted four years of your
Denise’s Heart Change
50:18
career.” I’m like, “Well, they didn’t
Denise’s Heart Change
50:21
understand. They were in the I went back
Denise’s Heart Change
50:22
as a qual as a quality director for the
Denise’s Heart Change
50:25
assembly plants. The assembly plants
Denise’s Heart Change
50:27
didn’t deal with the Isuzu at all. So,
Denise’s Heart Change
50:28
they didn’t know. The people that knew
Denise’s Heart Change
50:31
what I had done, a lot of them had
Denise’s Heart Change
50:33
retired or gone to different jobs. So,
Denise’s Heart Change
50:37
yeah, it was just an interesting going
Denise’s Heart Change
50:39
into that environment. And I had been
Denise’s Heart Change
50:41
there a little over a year and my boss
Denise’s Heart Change
50:44
came to me and said, “Well, there’s this
Denise’s Heart Change
50:45
position at GM Holden to be on the
Denise’s Heart Change
50:48
Holden board, executive director there.
Denise’s Heart Change
50:51
um and uh would you like to be
Denise’s Heart Change
50:54
considered? And it didn’t take long to
Denise’s Heart Change
50:57
talk to Denise and we came back and said
Denise’s Heart Change
50:59
no, not interested. Chris is back in
Denise’s Heart Change
51:02
school, our daughter’s, you know, back
Denise’s Heart Change
51:05
living with us. Um
Denise’s Heart Change
51:08
it just no way. So about two or three
Denise’s Heart Change
51:10
months later, I come out of a meeting
Denise’s Heart Change
51:12
and I saw my bust and just off-handed
Denise’s Heart Change
51:15
comment. Whatever happened to that
Denise’s Heart Change
51:16
position in Australia? He says, “Well,
Denise’s Heart Change
51:19
funny you should ask. I didn’t even know
Denise’s Heart Change
51:21
how to bring it up to you. They haven’t
Denise’s Heart Change
51:22
filled the position. And he says, “In
Denise’s Heart Change
51:25
fact, they want you still to consider
Denise’s Heart Change
51:28
coming.”
Denise’s Heart Change
51:30
Wow. Um, in fact, they want to interview
Denise’s Heart Change
51:33
you
Denise’s Heart Change
51:34
soon. So, on a Monday, I interviewed uh
Denise’s Heart Change
51:38
with with them and uh after the
Denise’s Heart Change
51:42
interview, they said, “You’ve got the
Denise’s Heart Change
51:44
job if you want it.”
Denise’s Heart Change
51:47
And I said, ‘Okay, I’m not sure I want
Denise’s Heart Change
51:50
it. Exactly. You know, I I really want
Denise’s Heart Change
51:52
to be kind of where I’m supposed to be.
Denise’s Heart Change
51:54
You know, I believe that there’s a path
Denise’s Heart Change
51:56
I’m supposed to be. I want to be where
Denise’s Heart Change
51:58
I’m supposed to be. So, you know, I got
Denise’s Heart Change
52:00
to figure that out. Well, how long do
Denise’s Heart Change
52:02
you need? I said, uh, well, they said,
Denise’s Heart Change
52:05
I’ll tell they said, the holding board
Denise’s Heart Change
52:08
meets next Monday, so a week away.
Denise’s Heart Change
52:12
You got to call us by Sunday afternoon.
Denise’s Heart Change
52:14
we set up a conference call which is
Denise’s Heart Change
52:15
Monday morning in Australia and you got
Denise’s Heart Change
52:18
to tell us one way or the other so we
Denise’s Heart Change
52:20
can announce it to the board.
Denise’s Heart Change
52:22
So I don’t think I’ve ever prayed harder
Denise’s Heart Change
52:26
during that week because I really did
Denise’s Heart Change
52:29
not want to go
Denise’s Heart Change
52:31
um and for a variety of reasons. So I
Denise’s Heart Change
52:34
prayed and I was on the road a lot
Denise’s Heart Change
52:36
because I was visiting assembly plants
Denise’s Heart Change
52:38
and so the whole time I’m praying zero
Denise’s Heart Change
52:41
response. I mean, not even an indication
Denise’s Heart Change
52:45
whatsoever of what I should do. And
Denise’s Heart Change
52:47
Denise was really quiet, I think. Well,
Denise’s Heart Change
52:51
she’s told me that she already knew we
Denise’s Heart Change
52:53
were supposed to go,
Denise’s Heart Change
52:55
but she didn’t want to influence me. So,
Denise’s Heart Change
52:59
it’s now Sunday.
Denise’s Heart Change
53:01
We get up to go to church on Sunday. Um
Denise’s Heart Change
53:04
I’m praying that the pastor would have
Denise’s Heart Change
53:07
some message about kangaroos or I mean
Denise’s Heart Change
53:10
[laughter]
Denise’s Heart Change
53:11
something that would be like oh of
Denise’s Heart Change
53:12
course we’re supposed to go you know
Denise’s Heart Change
53:14
type of thing. Uh there was nothing. In
Denise’s Heart Change
53:16
fact we were in an adult class and there
Denise’s Heart Change
53:19
was we were studying on the book of acts
Denise’s Heart Change
53:21
and it says uh you’ll be my witnesses in
Denise’s Heart Change
53:24
Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, the uttermost
Denise’s Heart Change
53:27
parts of the earth. And I thought, well,
Denise’s Heart Change
53:30
you know, that was what they were talk I
Denise’s Heart Change
53:32
and I thought maybe that’s a outer most
Denise’s Heart Change
53:34
parts of the earth. That’s Australia,
Denise’s Heart Change
53:36
right? But there I just Bill, you’re
Denise’s Heart Change
53:38
inventing this, you know, stop inventing
Denise’s Heart Change
53:40
stuff. Um, so after church, there was an
Denise’s Heart Change
53:45
all church gathering. I sent it and he
Denise’s Heart Change
53:47
said, “I can’t go. I got to figure out
Denise’s Heart Change
53:49
what I’m going to do.” On the
Father-Son Conversation
53:50
way to
53:52
church that morning, you said to me,
53:53
“Dad, what are you going to tell him?”
53:58
And I said, “I don’t know. Uh, I am I
53:59
don’t know. And he said, “Well, what are
54:00
you going to tell them if you don’t
54:03
know?” And [laughter] I said, “I don’t
54:05
know. I’m just hoping, you know, that
54:08
something’s going to So, I went home.
Reflecting on Concerns
54:09
rest of the families at church,
54:13
including Heidi’s fiance. And um
54:16
I sat in my chair and I took out my
54:21
notebook and I just sat there rocking.
54:25
And all of a sudden, I sensed,
54:28
write down your concerns. I had a lot of
54:30
concerns. I had concerns about leaving
54:32
Heidi again. I had concerns about moving
54:36
you again to another school, another
54:39
system. I had concerns about I I just
54:41
felt like our church needed us. Our
54:43
church while we were in Japan had gone
54:45
through some trouble and so I was coming
54:49
back and I felt like oh so energized by
54:50
what had happened in Japan. I was
54:53
helping out a lot at the church and and
54:56
so I just felt like the pastor needed us
54:57
there. And I mean there were a whole
54:59
bunch of things. I wrote down seven
55:03
pages of notes and and in each case when
55:05
I wrote it down I felt God give me an
55:08
answer. So I wrote it. I still have that
55:10
notebook. I wrote the answer. I think
55:12
seven seven or eight pages full of
55:14
stuff. It was clear at the end despite
55:17
all of my you know why me kind of
55:20
questions that we are supposed to go. So
55:22
when everybody came home I sat them down
55:24
and said okay we’re heading to
Moving to Australia
55:28
Australia. And uh Australia was
55:31
phenomenal uh especially for you I think
55:34
to a large extent. Um a great
55:37
environment to be in from just I mean
55:38
you live in Australia, Melbourne,
55:41
Australia. People that’s their favorite
55:42
city in the whole world. I mean I’ve
55:44
heard a number of people on the podcast
55:47
when you ask them a question like where
55:48
would you like to go that you haven’t
55:50
been? They’ve responded Melbourne,
55:52
Australia. We were living in Melbourne,
55:54
Australia. It was beautiful
55:57
and and a lot of good things about that
56:01
um time and uh
Career Challenges in Australia
56:03
you know so uh it turned out to be
56:06
really good um challenging in some ways.
56:08
We were bringing out a new car like we
56:10
spent a billion dollars to develop this
56:13
new car. It was way behind schedule from
56:15
a quality perspective. It wasn’t in very
56:16
good shape and that’s what they wanted
56:19
me to do. They wanted me to to get all
56:22
that. So, it took a lot of pushing and a
56:23
lot of
56:25
um
56:27
yeah, hard work to get it over the line.
Success and Transition
56:28
So,
56:30
when you look back at your career, you
56:33
had um up to that point, you had a lot
56:36
of success in America, you had a lot of
56:39
success in Japan, Australia seemed
56:42
really successful. Uh,
56:44
it seemed like everything was going
56:47
right all the time, minus the little
56:48
speed bump in Japan where maybe not
56:50
everyone valued it, but it seemed like
56:53
everything was working well. At some
56:55
point, uh, you ended up in Germany and
56:57
you felt like things didn’t go as well,
56:58
right?
Challenges in Germany
57:01
What was that like going from 35 plus
57:05
years of on top of the world to then
57:08
Germany where maybe that didn’t go as
57:11
well? Yeah, it’s an uh so the assignment
57:13
is Australia was supposed to be for
57:16
three years as we’re going through it.
57:18
General Motors Asia Pacific, which I was
57:21
really close and I reported to vice
57:24
president or president of Asia Pacific
57:27
um and uh
57:30
was consolidating and they said we don’t
57:33
need all the management it specifically
57:35
in Australia. we’re going to manage some
57:37
of this from the Asia-Pacific region,
57:41
which was in Korea at the time. Um, so I
57:44
knew my role after the like two and a
57:46
half years was lessening there. But they
57:48
came to me and they said, uh, we have
57:50
this new position. It’s setting up
57:52
plants in emerging markets all around
57:55
the world. East uh Eastern Europe,
57:57
especially Eastern Europe at the time,
58:00
but also Asia and like Thailand and
58:02
China, also South America and some of
58:04
the South American countries that we
58:08
have operations. And so, um, your job is
58:12
going to be to help coordinate that. Um,
58:14
you can do that from wherever you want.
58:16
So, I said, I’ll stay in Australia. You
58:19
were your 10th, 10th grade. Mhm.
58:21
Um and loving it. It was a great
58:23
spiritual environment. Lots of good
58:25
things going on. So they said, “Okay,
58:26
they produced a letter that said you’re
58:30
going to stay in Australia.” Um and and
58:33
take on do the holding work. Um but it’s
58:35
going to be a small part of the job
58:37
compared to this big job of setting up
58:41
plants in emerging markets. Great. I
58:44
felt it was a perfect solution.
Unexpected Move to Germany
58:46
So I’m now traveling all over. I was
58:48
coming back from India or South America
58:50
or somewhere and I stopped in Chicago
58:54
actually and was seeing Heidi and her
58:56
husband and I’m in the bathroom because
58:59
I caught some bug while I was in South
59:02
America or India not doing well and I
59:05
get this text message from my boss who
59:07
had just gotten another assignment. He
59:09
was no longer my boss and he said, “Oh,
59:11
Bill, by the way, you’re going to report
59:15
to this vice president in
59:17
Germany.
59:19
And I knew the guy. He was an American
59:21
guy. Good guy. And I said, “Okay, no
59:23
problem. I don’t care who I report to.”
59:26
Basically, um, and he’ll be talking to
59:30
you about the move to Germany.
59:32
And I said, immediately, I’m texting a
59:34
Blackberry. You know, you mean the move
59:38
in three years? He or in two years or
59:39
something? He says, “No, the move in two
59:43
months.” And I said, “No way. I’m not
59:45
going.
Decision to Move
59:47
And so what had happened, there was a
59:50
mistake actually. Um, nobody knew. They
59:52
didn’t talk to me about it. They felt
59:54
like I could be more effective if I was
59:56
in Europe because a lot was going on was
59:58
in Eastern Europe. And so, yeah, I’m
60:01
I was really upset. I mean, really
60:04
upset. Um, and not only that, but I’d be
60:08
reporting to a guy there that he and I
60:12
didn’t see eye to eye at all. Hardly.
60:14
Not the vice president because I
60:15
reported to him, but there was another
60:17
guy who was going to kind of be my go-to
60:19
person. I didn’t really work for him,
60:21
but my go he and I didn’t see eye to eye
60:23
hardly at all on everything. Very
60:27
old traditional inspection type quality
60:29
person, you know, not at all the
60:31
philosophy that I had. So, it was a
60:34
tough move. I almost turned it down and
60:36
then uh as prayers came, Denise and I,
60:39
we said, “Well, we feel that this is a
60:42
move.” So, we followed.
60:43
We just followed. I’m so thankful we
60:45
followed now looking back because later
60:49
on they offered retirements. If we would
60:51
have been in Japan or in Australia, we
60:54
would have stayed in Australia probably.
60:56
But in this case,
60:57
it wasn’t a great job for me. I didn’t
61:00
feel I didn’t have anybody reporting to
61:02
me. I had 30 people indirectly reporting
61:04
to me around the world after having a
61:07
lot of people report and so it was it
61:10
was just a strange strange environment.
Returning to the U.S.
61:12
Um,
61:15
so yeah, it it didn’t go well. And and
61:19
so after we’ve been there a little less
61:22
than a year, they came and said, uh,
61:24
we’re coming back to the United States
61:26
to visit uh our daughter who our
61:29
granddaughter had just been born, our
61:31
first granddaughter. And as we got ready
61:34
to leave, word came to me they might be
61:36
offering early retirements.
61:39
And just,
61:41
you know, so I said to, “Hey, they might
61:43
offer. We got to figure out what we’re
61:44
going to do if they offer that. Where
61:46
are we going to live? We could live in
61:48
Australia. We could live in Japan again
61:50
if we wanted to. We could come to
61:52
Chicago, Detroit. Where where should we
61:54
be?” Um, so there was a whole s
61:57
soularching that went on there. Yeah.
Early Retirement Decision
62:00
Wow. It’s interesting because then 2008
62:04
GM, it was going to be the financial
62:05
crisis. GM was going to go bankrupt.
62:07
They did offer all the execs early
62:09
retirement. You just turned 55 and they
62:12
had offered you early retirement and you
62:15
chose to take it. Um that left you in a
62:18
position of what’s next,
62:20
right?
62:20
Which you’ve dealt with the what’s next
62:22
ever since then and had some really cool
62:24
opportunities come up. Um, talk about
62:27
how that what’s next played out for you
62:31
moving to Chicago after Germany.
Settling in Chicago
62:34
Yeah, we really didn’t know what to do,
62:36
right? I mean, and and it’s funny in our
62:40
marriage. Um, generally speaking, we
62:43
pray independently, Denise and I. We’ve
62:45
been married for 50 years, so it seems
62:47
to have worked okay. And then we get
62:49
together and talk. And lo and behold,
62:51
the same three things came up during our
62:53
prayer time. Number one, go back to
62:55
Chicago because we didn’t know where
62:57
we’d go. Be there to support Heidi and
62:59
her new granddaughter, our new
63:00
granddaughter. Um, Heidi and her husband
63:02
and our new granddaughter. Um, number
63:05
two, um, don’t jump into another job.
63:09
And number three, lighten the load. We
63:11
had so much stuff. This is a long story.
63:14
Um, but those were the three things we
63:16
felt um, we had to do. So, we moved to
63:18
Chicago. Didn’t know us all. Um now
63:21
you’re in the I don’t know your eighth
63:24
school in nine years or something like
63:25
that coming back here which turned out
63:27
to be really good actually environment
63:29
for you. Um but we didn’t know any
63:33
didn’t know what would happen because I
63:36
had been adjunk faculty at University of
63:38
Michigan. I reached out to Wheaten
63:40
College while we were still living in
63:42
Germany said hey we might come back to
63:44
Chicagoland
63:45
uh to the head of the business
63:46
department. It was Dr. Tommo and that
63:48
Tommo was in charge of the business econ
63:51
department at the time and uh she sent
63:54
me back a very curt
63:57
uh we don’t have any positions open and
63:58
you’re not qualified even if we did and
64:01
I sent her back no I don’t think you
64:03
understand and she says well let’s talk
64:05
if you come to Chicago so we come to
64:07
Chicago I send her another email she
64:09
gives me the same message back again she
64:11
apologizes every time I talk to her so I
64:13
said let’s go out to dinner let’s go out
64:15
to lunch so we met at the college to go
64:18
to lunch. And about halfway through the
64:19
conversation, she’s hearing the story.
64:22
She said, “You don’t want a job.” I
64:24
said, “Yeah, I wouldn’t accept a job if
64:25
you offered a job. I just want to help
64:28
however I can help.” She said, “I’m
64:30
going to put you to work.” So, I mean,
64:33
that was 2009. I have been involved with
64:37
Wheaten College since 2009.
Involvement with Wheaten College
64:39
I’ve probably worked with over a
64:41
thousand students one-on-one. I lecture
64:43
two or three times a semester in the
64:45
classes. I I love, you know, what I’ve
64:48
been able to do there and it’s branched
64:49
off to a bunch of different stuff.
64:51
Yeah.
64:51
So, like for example, all of a sudden
64:54
the new president of Wheaten College
64:55
came in. He wants to create a leadership
64:57
council and this Dr. Tobble says, “Well,
65:00
I got a guy who’s doing this for us in
65:02
the business department.” So, I get this
65:04
letter from Dr. Reichen. And Dr. Reichen
65:07
says, “Uh, Bill, I’d like to invite you
65:09
to be part of the Wheaten College
65:11
Leadership Council.”
65:14
And I took the letter to Denise. I said,
65:17
I’ve never met Dr. Reichen. I only know
65:20
two buildings on campus. I mean, this
65:22
has got to be a mistake, you know. So,
65:25
it wasn’t that what I was doing for the
65:27
business department, they wanted kind of
65:29
done for the school. So, she said, “Hey,
65:31
I’ve already got a guy doing that.”
65:33
First meeting, I I didn’t have a job. I
65:34
didn’t know what I was going to do. All
65:36
I you know I so first meeting I went to
65:41
all these important people with
65:42
generations of experience at weed
65:45
college were on this council highlevel
65:47
executives or people in academia and
65:50
finally comes around to me and they’ve
65:52
introduced you know themselves and the
65:55
chairman says so Bill when did you
65:57
graduate from college and I said no uh
66:01
uh University of Michigan and they said
66:04
uh oh uh how about your kids’
66:06
I said, “Yeah, uh, Taylor University and
66:09
which is a competitor to Wheat Couch.”
66:12
And they said, “Oh, uh, well, what do
66:14
you do?” And I said, “Well, right now
66:17
the only thing on my calendar is I clean
66:19
the house on Wednesdays.” [laughter]
66:22
And they’re like, “Oh, what is this guy
66:24
doing here?” I mean, you know,
66:26
seriously, it turned out to be
66:27
phenomenal. I mean, I enjoyed working
66:29
with those people. I think I added
66:31
value. Um while I was lecturing at
66:34
Weeden College, a grandson of the
66:36
founder of a major company, um
66:39
multinational company um heard me speak,
66:42
knew his family was looking for a board
66:44
member, went home and said, “I heard
66:46
this guy speak. You need to talk to
66:47
him.”
Board Opportunities
66:48
I went and did that and lo and behold,
66:50
they asked me to be on the board of
66:52
directors. I one of your friends, you
66:54
came over before and stayed here at the
66:57
school before we actually were able to
66:58
move. You met a friend whose dad owned a
67:01
manufacturing company and grandpa owned
67:03
a manufacturing company and you used to
67:05
say, “Hey, you should go help them. They
67:08
do manufacturing.” And I said, “No, I’m
67:09
not really interested.” And finally,
67:12
we’re headed down to a Chicago White
67:13
Sock game. Um, and Justin’s your
67:16
friend’s in the car. And he said, “You
67:18
need to meet Justin’s dad.” And I
67:19
couldn’t say, “No, I don’t want to.” So
67:21
I took the took his email address,
67:24
reached out to him. He said, “Yeah,
67:25
let’s get together.” We got together. Lo
67:27
and behold, they asked me to come in and
67:29
do consulting for them, significant
67:31
consulting. Then asked me to be on their
67:32
board and that’s led to another company
67:35
to be on the board and and I mean it
67:37
just exploded and and so yeah and
67:41
Project World Impact, right? So it’s
67:44
just been phenomenal. Every aspect of
67:47
this the last 16 17 years have been
67:51
phenomenal.
Leadership Insights
67:52
How have you thought of leadership
67:54
differently from being on a school board
67:56
to leading a GM to now leading multiple
67:59
corporate boards? I know you’ve done a
68:01
lot of strategic planning with different
68:02
nonprofits and helping with all this
68:05
life coaching for thousand plus
68:07
students, probably a thousand plus
68:08
people as well. How have you seen your
68:11
view of leadership evolve over the last
68:14
few decades? A few things about being on
68:16
the boards that are interesting is I
68:18
realized that my view is a manufacturing
68:20
view. And so even at Holden, even though
68:24
I had a lot of involvement outside of
68:26
just manufacturing and quality,
68:29
um there’s a lot of other aspects of the
68:32
business that are difficult. Sales is
68:35
something I’m finding out is I always
68:36
used to think sales is easy. I mean,
68:38
what? You make a few phone calls, shake
68:40
some hands, slap some backs, and boy,
68:43
now I find out, you know, it’s not easy
68:45
at all. Um, from a leadership
68:47
perspective, um,
68:53
there’s all sorts of different
68:54
companies. As it turns out, the
68:56
companies that I’m on the board of are
68:57
family oriented companies. They’re
68:59
familyrun businesses. And that’s good to
69:04
a large extent. Uh but it’s also
69:06
frustrating a little bit because for
69:08
instance this one manufacturing company
69:11
that I was a part of we had goals and
69:13
objectives in the strategic plan that we
69:15
set up and they weren’t met. And it’s
69:19
like uh oh that’s too bad. Try harder.
69:22
And I’m like try harder. No get the job
69:25
done. You know I mean that’s kind of my
69:27
attitude was much more resultsoriented.
69:30
So, I’ve had to tone down and and I
69:32
still struggle with toning down um
69:35
because I have some pretty strong
69:37
opinions about the way it’s been. Um but
69:40
but I’ve really enjoyed learning uh
69:43
learning about this and and being there
69:45
to help you. I’ve enjoyed a lot.
Joining Project World Impact
69:47
Yeah. What has the journey been like
69:49
from your perspective jumping into PWI?
69:52
Because you were doing a lot of stuff
69:54
even though you were quote unquote
69:56
retired. But I think you got busier
69:57
after you retired, which is crazy after
69:59
flying millions of miles and doing all
70:01
that kind of stuff.
70:02
Uh, somehow you were crazy busy and
70:04
jumped in to help me with starting PWI.
70:09
Yeah,
70:10
there’s a backstory to that.
70:11
Okay.
70:12
So, the backstory is this. Um, when you
70:15
went to Taylor, uh,
70:18
part of the reason you went to Taylor
70:20
was to play basketball. You’re a great
70:22
basketball player, actually. Um there
70:25
was some turmoil and coaching change
70:27
over and stuff and it just didn’t fit.
70:28
And I remember you calling me up
70:30
freshman year and saying I don’t want to
70:31
play and I was disappointed. Um,
70:35
actually it turned out to be good
70:37
because shortly after somebody had been
70:39
a recent graduate of Taylor and a person
70:43
that was a spouse that had been in
70:46
marketing uh a spouse of a administrator
70:49
at Taylor uh asked you to come and start
70:52
this company with them, this marketing
70:54
company. And so I can remember the call
70:57
when you called me and said, “Uh,
70:59
there’s these two people that are
71:00
starting this marketing company and uh
71:03
they’d like me to be involved.”
71:06
And I’m like, “Scam.” I mean, it goes
71:09
off. It’s a scam. Scam. Okay. All
71:11
they’re doing is money. You know, they
71:12
want money. So, how much money do you
71:15
have to put in to be a part of this
71:16
company? Oh, no. I don’t have to put any
71:19
money. Oh, well, what do you have to do?
71:21
He says, “Well, I have to promise to
71:22
work for free for six months.
71:26
So, in my mind, I’m thinking, “Wow,
71:28
digital marketing, what a marketable
71:31
thing.” And to be able to be involved in
71:33
the ground level of a company, start a
71:35
company. Wow, that’d be fantastic. But
71:38
you’re in school, right? And we’re
71:39
paying your tuition, right? So, I said,
71:42,
“Hey, you’ve got one job right now. Your
71:45
job is a 3.5 grade point average. If you
71:48
can maintain a 3.5 grade point average,
71:51
you can do whatever you want.” you said
71:54
deal. So, what I didn’t realize when you
71:58
said deal, and I don’t know if this is
71:59
beginning of sophomore year or end of
72:00
freshman year, whatever. Um,
72:04
you got a 3.5, which I got to hand it to
72:06
you. Um, but you scammed it to a large
72:10
extent. I think at least, you know,
72:12
I think they thought so, too.
72:14
Anyways, [laughter]
72:15
I was still proud. and you got this
72:17
experience in this company that grew
72:19
like crazy crazy important major Fortune
72:22
500 type clients. I mean it was really
72:25
crazy what happened.
Starting Project World Impact
72:27
Um right as you’re starting your senior
72:30
year um they made you they paid you
72:33
after six months actually paid you
72:34
pretty good money right after a short
72:36
period of time more than almost any kid
72:38
was making at that time
72:40
for sure.
72:41
Um
72:41
but you were critical to the company by
72:43
then. So towards the end they made your
72:46
job offer which was a in my mind job
72:49
offer from a financial standpoint and
72:52
you came home and you said I don’t think
72:54
I’m supposed to take it.
72:56
I think I’m supposed to take what I’ve
72:58
learned and and use it to help people.
73:01
So I want to do Project World Impact
73:03
full-time.
73:05
No salary, no pay and from oh look at
73:09
this pay to nothing. So I said great.
73:13
Um, I remember back in in Australia, you
73:17
had said to me, “Dad, I don’t want to be
73:19
like you one night.” And I said, “What
73:21
does that mean?” And he said, “I don’t
73:23
want to work for a big company. I want
73:24
to be an entrepreneur.” And I encouraged
73:27
you to be an entrepreneur at that time.
73:29
So now, you know, here’s a chance to be
73:32
your entrepreneur. You were always, once
73:33
you came back here, you’re always an
73:35
entrepreneur. you had all sorts of
73:37
selling stuff and trading stuff, being
73:39
involved in eBay and I mean all sorts of
73:43
different things and so I saw that in
73:45
you and and now you want to start this
73:48
digital marketing company, Project World
73:50
Impact. I thought, “Oh, that’s pretty
73:52
neat.” I said, “Go for it. This is your
73:54
chance.” So,
73:56
you started doing that. I remember there
73:58
was a venture capital guy who came and
74:01
said that they would like to invest I
74:04
can’t remember how much money a lot of
74:06
money a lot of money
74:07
a lot of money for like 20% ownership in
74:09
project world impact and they
74:11
which was just an idea we didn’t even
74:13
have a business
74:14
didn’t even have business a business
74:15
idea
74:16
and and so they had met with you and you
74:19
alone and they had said come back in a
74:21
week or something and let’s talk about
74:23
it in more depth I didn’t think it was
74:25
fair for you to go like one on seven
74:28
because they had a lot of people there
74:30
um their management team. So I said,
74:33,
“I’ll go with you.” And they at least
74:34
had some another voice or whatever. I I
74:37
didn’t know anything about it. So I went
74:39
with you to the meeting. I can remember
74:40
and hearing their pitch about how they
74:42
wanted to invest, what they what they
74:44
liked about you, what you were doing,
74:45
what they didn’t like about what you
74:46
were doing, how they thought you should
74:48
change what you were doing. And you felt
74:51
pretty strong about the way you were
74:53
headed. And so you very respectfully
74:56
said no to their offer before we walked
74:59
out. But you wanted to still work with
75:01
them, but uh uh we’re not going to we’re
75:04
not going to, you know, go through the
75:06
the purchase. And I remember when we
75:09
walked out standing outside in the
75:10
street and said, “Wow, that took a lot
75:12
of guts to say no.” And I said, “Based
75:15
on that, I’m going to come and work for
75:16
you for 10 hours a week.” So that was 13
75:20
or 14 years ago. And uh yeah, it turned
75:23
into something full-time, good times,
75:26
bad times. probably
75:29
the best blessing God’s ever given me to
75:31
have time with you, to be able to
75:34
support you in good times and bad times
75:36
and and to be able to look across the
75:38
office and see you sitting in your
75:40
office and to hear how you’re growing as
75:42
a leader, to hear how you’re uh yeah,
75:46
you’re you’ve got so much
75:49
um your mind thinks so much advanced
75:53
compared to everybody else from a
75:54
business standpoint. The strategic plan
75:57
you’ve put together for Project World
75:58
Impact is better than any strategic plan
76:01
I’ve ever put together. Um the the way
76:05
that you’re advancing in different areas
76:07
like AI and other things, phenomenal,
76:10
but just the way you’ve grown managing
76:12
people and managing the company and it’s
76:15
just been phenomenal.
Servant Leadership Podcast
76:17
This this servant leadership podcast was
76:20
just a brains. It was a brainstorm for a
76:22
lot of years. You said, “Oh, I’d love to
76:24
do a podcast.” And then all of a sudden,
76:26
hey, I’m going to start it, you know,
76:28
August 12th, two years ago. And and I’m
76:31
like, okay, you know, who are you going
76:33
to get to speak? And boy, you got Claus
76:35
Schultzy on the on the first one, which
76:38
Yeah. Horse Schultz. Yeah.
76:39
Yeah. Well,
76:40
Hor Schultz. I said Claus Hor Schultzy.
76:43
Um, you know, and then they’ve just been
76:46
phenomenal. I get a chance to review the
76:48
Servant Leadership podcast before they
76:49
go out just to make sure there’s no
76:51
major issues and I’m like over and over
76:54
again, wow, that’s fantastic. That’s
76:56
fantastic. Unbelievable. How did we get
76:58
that guy? I mean, it’s just
77:00
unbelievable. So, it’s been a great
Father-Son Collaboration
77:03
Yeah. Well, it’s been a fun ride and
77:04
it’s been awesome doing a lot of this
77:06
stuff together, for sure. Uh, it one of
77:08
the things that’s unique from my vantage
77:10
point is I get to see how you’re helping
77:12
people outside of PWI all the time.
77:14
[snorts]
77:14
Uh, one of the things that’s really fun
77:16
that I’ve seen you do is this concept, I
77:20
don’t know what you call it exactly, but
77:21
helping people find their perfect place.
77:23
Can you talk about how you have helped
77:26
people find their perfect place and what
77:28
that’s looked like?
Finding the Perfect Place
77:29
Yeah. So, it’s been it’s been a really
77:32
interesting journey because we started
77:34
to go to this church, a major church
77:36
here that was a great church, just
77:37
absolutely phenomenal church. They
77:40
started a business breakfast, business
77:42
person’s breakfast. They asked me to
77:43
speak like I was the second person to
77:45
speak. Couldn’t even believe it. And I
77:47
thought, well, what I’m going to want to
77:48
talk to them about is how do business
77:51
people, Christian business people, find
77:54
how they should be involved in ministry?
77:57
Um, for example, I had a good friend who
78:00
asked me to go and help build an
78:02
orphanage down in Nicaragua. I am not
78:05
good at building. Um, I can do it. I
78:09
probably could have added some value,
78:10
but it doesn’t motivate me. Um, and and
78:14
I’m not all that good at it. Just tell
78:16
me what to do, I guess. But anyways, so
78:19
that’s not where I’m going to fit. So,
78:21
how do Christian business people find
78:23
their fit? And um I called it finding
78:28
your perfect place. And at the time,
78:30
Denise and I used to go out to lunch
78:32
every day and we read books. And so we
78:34
would talk. is how do business people
78:37
how can they help find their perfect
78:40
place um their place that fits and um so
78:45
as we talked about it came up with this
78:47
model it’s a pretty simple model it’s
78:49
three questions that you ask yourself
78:51
and they’re they get pretty deep but
78:54
simple questions on the surface and the
78:57
intersection of those three questions is
79:00
most likely your perfect place and I use
79:02
the word perfect in a really different
79:04
way. Um, in the Bible during his sermon
79:07
on the mount, Jesus says, um, be perfect
79:11
for your heavenly
Striving for Perfection
1:19:14
And I always thought, why would Jesus
1:19:17
tell us to be what I can never be? I’m
1:19:19
never going to be perfect. And I heard
1:19:21
messages on it. They weren’t fulfilling
1:19:23
messages to me in terms of what he meant
1:19:25
by that. And and I’m like, it pretty
1:19:28
much sounds like he’s telling me I need
1:19:31
to be perfect. I lay my head on the
1:19:32
pillow every night and I screw up every
1:19:34
day, every single day. And I lay down at
1:19:37
night and think, God, how could I have
1:19:38
done that or how could I have said that
1:19:40
or how could I have, you know, lots of
1:19:42
different things.
Understanding Biblical Perfection
1:19:44
And then I happen to read a book. I
1:19:46
don’t know if you’ve ever done this, but
1:19:47
there’s verses that frustrate me in the
1:19:50
Bible. I have a list of verses that
1:19:52
frustrate me. And over time, I’ll read a
1:19:55
book. And there was a book that had that
1:19:59
verse for one chapter. And I recognized
1:20:02
that I had it done wrong. I had
1:20:05
interpreted that wrong. I had taken that
1:20:08
word perfect as a sinless, spotless,
1:20:11
blemishless, perfect. That’s not what
1:20:13
that word means at all when it’s used in
1:20:16
different parts of the New Testament.
Functional Perfection Analogy
1:20:18
The word means a completeness or a
1:20:21
functional perfect. And and I thought of
1:20:24
this analogy that’s kind of a really
1:20:26
unique analogy. And that is if I’ve got
1:20:29
uh a job and my job is to pound nails
1:20:32
into this table, this piece of wood
1:20:35
here. I can have an ugly hammer. The
1:20:39
tool itself is not very nice. It can
1:20:41
have rust marks and pock marks and a bad
1:20:44
handle, but it’s pretty much perfect to
1:20:46
pound the nail into this piece of wood.
1:20:49
I can have a brand new screwdriver or a
1:20:51
brand new wrench, the chrome immaculate,
1:20:55
but they’re not perfect to drive
1:20:59
that nail into that piece of wood. So,
1:21:02
even though we’re
God’s Purpose for Imperfection
1:21:05
flawed like that hammer, there’s
1:21:08
something that God’s called us for. And
1:21:11
so, that’s what I spoke of uh to these
1:21:14
guys, to these business people. Um and
1:21:19
and then I realized it’s got a lot more
1:21:21
application than just how do Christian
1:21:23
business people find their place in
1:21:24
ministry. It’s how people in career
1:21:26
transition figure outs what’s next in
1:21:28
their life. It’s how students that are
1:21:30
coming out of college figure out how to
1:21:32
go, you know, where should I do, what
1:21:34
should I do? Um people that are just
1:21:37
confused and happy in their current
1:21:38
position. So, I’ve been able to work
1:21:40
with thousands of people going through
1:21:43
this model and it’s been really
1:21:46
I think pretty revolutionary and it just
1:21:48
it it just helps people get a frame of
1:21:50
reference. A lot of people you’re so
1:21:52
overwhelmed you don’t even have a good
1:21:54
way to think it through. So, it just
1:21:55
helps people think it through.
Three Key Questions
1:21:57
So, talk through what the three
1:21:59
questions are that you ask people.
1:22:00
Oh, the three questions. E [laughter]
1:22:04
simple questions. Um first question is
1:22:07
who are you? So, um, when when, uh,
1:22:11
people go through, uh, career
1:22:14
counseling, a lot of times they take a
1:22:15
lot of tests to figure out what their
1:22:17
aptitude is, which is fine, but I think
1:22:20
that’s maybe 75 25%.
1:22:23
75% of who you are is how you’ve been
1:22:26
shaped.
Understanding Personal Motivation
1:22:28
And, and there’s a verse that that kind
1:22:30
of for a while frustrated me in the
1:22:32
Bible. It’s a well-known verse, Romans
1:22:34
8:28. Uh, God causes all things to work
1:22:37
together for good to those who love him
1:22:39
and are called according to his purpose.
1:22:41
When I first heard that verse,
1:22:44
I heard it talked about the messages
1:22:47
were like,
1:22:49
“Don’t worry, everything’s going to be
1:22:51
okay.” I almost heard like that reggae
1:22:53
song, but I said, “Don’t worry, be happy
1:22:55
now.” You know, that type of thing. So,
1:22:57
I kind of like, “Oh, yeah, sure.” You
1:23:00
know, type of thing. But now since I’ve
1:23:02
been working with people, I realize it’s
1:23:04
a super powerful verse. I mean, super
1:23:07
powerful because what it says is God th
1:23:11
causes all things to work together for
1:23:13
good. Who’s good?
1:23:16
His good. He redeems everything that
1:23:19
happens in your life. Nothing is wasted.
1:23:22
You might not see it, but somehow God is
1:23:26
going to use whatever happens in your
1:23:27
life for his good. And so now when you
1:23:33
realize that you take a look at a
1:23:35
somebody’s life and who are you? You ask
1:23:39
yourself what’s happened in my life
1:23:42
a good and bad. A lot of cases the bad
1:23:46
uh shapes you and in your growing up, in
1:23:51
your education, in your work, in your
1:23:55
sports or hobbies or whatever else comes
1:23:59
and write down those critical events
1:24:02
that have shaped you in those areas
1:24:05
because most likely God’s going to use
1:24:07
those somehow
1:24:09
in you know your international
1:24:11
background is a great example of that.
1:24:13
how God’s used you. You know that. Um,
1:24:16
so that’s question number one. Who are
1:24:18
you? Question number two, what motivates
1:24:20
you? [snorts] I I’m the type of person
1:24:23
that knew what I wanted to accomplish
1:24:26
ever since I was in fourth grade or
1:24:27
fifth grade. Kind of I kind of had it
1:24:30
all planned out in my mind. I didn’t
1:24:32
achieve everything by the way, but I at
1:24:34
least I thought everybody was like me
1:24:37
when I would interview people when I
1:24:39
first became an engineering supervisor
1:24:41
and said where do you want to be in
1:24:42
three to five years and some go I don’t
1:24:44
know what I want to be what’s wrong with
1:24:46
them but now I realize that that’s 80%
1:24:49
of the people or 90% of the people only
1:24:51
10% of the people were like me they kind
1:24:53
of got it somewhat figured out what they
1:24:55
wanted to do and uh so
1:24:59
motivation’s never been an issue for me
1:25:02
and and and so but when I asked the
1:25:05
question I found this glassy look when I
1:25:07
asked people what motivates you uh I
1:25:10
don’t know you know so I started to come
1:25:12
up with things like well what would you
1:25:14
do for free if you didn’t have to get
1:25:16
paid what gives you energy uh what are
1:25:19
you passionate about things like that
1:25:21
that helped but then I came up with a
1:25:23
concept that just seems to fit so well
1:25:26
and it’s the concept of resonance so
1:25:28
resonance is an engineering term The
1:25:31
best example of resonance is when you’re
1:25:33
trying to tune a piano and you’ve got a
1:25:35
piano string and you’re tightening the
1:25:37
piano string trying to get it to the
1:25:38
right tightness. You tap the tuning fork
1:25:41
on the table. You hold it up next to the
1:25:44
string and when you get it to the right
1:25:46
tightness, the vibration from the tuning
1:25:48
fork makes the string vibrate.
Discovering Personal Resonance
1:25:53
And so now I ask people, what makes your
1:25:57
heart vibrate
1:25:59
when you do it? is just like, “Oh, wow.
1:26:02
I love that.” So, for me, it’s not
1:26:05
building an orphanage in Nicaragua. But
1:26:07
if that same nonprofit leader came to me
1:26:10
and said, “Bill, can you help me develop
1:26:12
a strategic plan? Would you review my
1:26:15
organization and tell me areas where I
1:26:16
could improve?”
1:26:18
I mean, the resonance starts. And some
1:26:21
things like when I start to get back
1:26:22
into table tennis, I stopped table
1:26:24
tennis when I couldn’t play at the level
1:26:26
I wanted anymore. I just quit. when I
1:26:28
got back into it in Australia and a
1:26:30
little bit here in Chicago and I start
1:26:32
hitting forehands again the resonance.
1:26:35
So some things are just
1:26:38
uh going to be hobbies or interests.
1:26:41
Some things can shape your career. So
1:26:44
that’s the second question. What
1:26:45
motivates you? Third question is where’s
1:26:48
the opportunity? And for some people
1:26:50
they feel called like Denise was called
1:26:52
to go to Japan, right? That was a
1:26:55
calling. Um in my life it hasn’t
1:26:57
happened all that much. Maybe three
1:26:59
times in my whole life have I felt
1:27:01
called like. But you read through the
1:27:04
Bible and and the best example is Moses
1:27:07
at the burning bush. Moses at the
1:27:09
burning bush, God, you know, the bush
1:27:12
comes and
1:27:14
God says, “Go back to Egypt, set my
1:27:17
people free.” Moses knows it’s God,
1:27:20
right? And Moses says, “I’m not your
1:27:22
guy.” In other words, that’s not who I
1:27:24
am. And those Israelis, they don’t like
1:27:29
me. they’re going to be mad at me and
1:27:31
they’re not going to follow me, you
1:27:33
know, so it doesn’t motivate me, you
1:27:35
know, but
1:27:38
if you look at it, Moses was 80 years
1:27:40
old at the burning bush.
Finding Opportunities
1:27:43
If God could have shaped someone for the
1:27:45
job to go back to Israel and lead the
1:27:47
people, it was Moses. First 40 years of
1:27:51
his life, he grows up in Pharaoh’s
1:27:53
household, in the king’s household. He’s
1:27:55
taught next to the king. He’s taught to
1:27:57
be a leader. Then he goes through this
1:27:59
process where he kills an Egyptian. He
1:28:01
gets scared. He runs away. The next 40
1:28:03
years of his life is out in the
1:28:05
wilderness living off the land. If you
1:28:07
could shape somebody to be the person to
1:28:10
lead the children of Israel out, it
1:28:12
would be Moses. He was shaped. He just
1:28:15
didn’t see it. So I tell people if you
1:28:17
feel called, you got to go. Even if you
1:28:20
don’t feel like it. But in most cases,
1:28:22
people don’t feel called. So that
1:28:23
where’s the opportunity is kind of
1:28:26
where are some maybe divine appointments
1:28:29
or situations that just seem to come out
1:28:31
of nowhere to help you, you know, figure
1:28:34
it out. The guy asking me to be on the
1:28:37
board who his grandson lectured, you
1:28:40
know, heard my lecturing class. That’s
1:28:42
kind of an unusual situation to happen.
1:28:44
Um
1:28:46
and and there’s a verse that says if you
1:28:48
trust in the Lord with all your heart,
1:28:49
he’ll give you the desires of your
1:28:51
heart. When I was growing up, I thought
1:28:53
that meant, “Oh, I desire a nicer carry.
1:28:56
I desire a nicer house.” But that’s not
1:28:58
what it means. It means he’ll put his
1:29:00
desires in your heart. So, I ask people
1:29:02
to start to look into their heart. You
1:29:04
know, what is God starting to speak to
1:29:06
you about? Are you journaling about it?
1:29:08
Are you taking time to think about it?
1:29:10
What might be God doing? So, um, yeah.
1:29:15
So when you look at those things of how
1:29:18
you’ve been shaped and what makes your
1:29:20
heart vibrate and where there’s desires
1:29:24
happening in your heart, that
1:29:25
intersection I think is like a perfect
1:29:27
place.
Lessons from My Father
1:29:29
That’s awesome. Uh obviously being your
1:29:32
son, I hear all these cool analogies and
1:29:34
I have my whole life. You’ve taught me a
1:29:36
ton. Uh what are some things that you
1:29:39
learned from your dad along the way?
1:29:42
Yeah, my dad was just a great dad. You
1:29:45
know, one of the interesting things, you
1:29:47
and I have talked about this. When we
1:29:48
came back from Japan, I was going to
1:29:51
men’s class
1:29:53
and the men’s class had 20 or 30 guys in
1:29:55
it. We were going through a book that I
1:29:57
didn’t like the book at all, but uh
1:30:00
there was a chapter on fathers and sons
1:30:03
relationship in the middle of the book
1:30:05
and how fathers can damage their kids,
1:30:09
especially sons. And at the very end of
1:30:13
the class, the teacher that was teaching
1:30:16
a big guy, a really like a football
1:30:19
player, big guy, lineman, um he he says,
1:30:22
uh before we before we exit, he says, uh
1:30:25
how many [snorts] how many people had a
1:30:29
father who loved them and was proud of
1:30:32
them and didn’t just love them, but
1:30:36
spoke it, verbalized it? Well, that was
1:30:39
kind of a stupid question to me. Uh, and
1:30:42
I was sitting front left and I, you
1:30:45
know, and I go like this to look over my
1:30:47
shoulder. I’m the only guy in the room
1:30:50
with my hand raised. There’s a couple
1:30:52
other guys kind of going like this kind
1:30:55
of, you know. So, the guy says, “Well, h
1:30:57
how did you know?” And I said, “How did
1:31:00
I know?” I said, “My dad told me all the
1:31:02
time. He coached my sports. He coached
1:31:05
me. He he wrote me notes on my birthday
1:31:08
and on holidays and you know we’d go
1:31:10
fishing together and he he’d just tell
1:31:13
me how proud he was and how much he
1:31:14
loved me. He was Polish. We hugged and
1:31:17
we you know I mean it’s it’s you know it
1:31:20
was it was just a really great
1:31:23
relationship.
Father’s Influence and Legacy
1:31:25
And the guy paused and he says uh uh the
1:31:28
reason you don’t like this book well I
1:31:31
saw him actually later on about three or
1:31:33
four days later. His name was Dan. Dan
1:31:35
says to me, “I went home that night and
1:31:37
cried.” I said, “Dan, why’d you cry?” He
1:31:40
says, “Because so much was given to one
1:31:43
guy and so little to everybody else.” He
1:31:46
says, “Bill, you think you’re normal.
1:31:48
You aren’t normal. You’re the abnormal
1:31:50
one.” Which now Denise uses that all the
1:31:54
time. Oh, you don’t remember. You’re not
1:31:55
normal. But anyways, um, but what I
1:31:58
began to realize is that class was I
1:32:02
remember telling you at the time about
1:32:04
it and you saying, “Oh, I think that’s
1:32:05
an exaggeration.”
1:32:07
But as we’ve seen with the groups we’ve
1:32:09
been involved in in men’s conferences
1:32:11
we’ve gone to, not much of an
1:32:14
exaggeration. Um, so when you asked for
1:32:17
the lessons I learned from my dad, the
1:32:19
one was, you know, I committed at that
1:32:22
class that night when I went home, I
1:32:24
said if my kids get asked this question,
1:32:28
they’re going to be able to raise their
1:32:29
hand
1:32:30
and say, so I want to make, you know, I
1:32:32
wanted to make sure that, but he had so
1:32:35
many analogies like sports analogies.
1:32:38
One of the things when you’re playing
1:32:39
table tennis, it’s one of the fastest
1:32:41
sports in the world, right? You got to
1:32:42
keep your eye on the ball when you’re
1:32:44
batting. Going to hit a hitting a
1:32:46
baseball is hard thing to do. Keep your
1:32:48
eye on the ball. What he was trying to
1:32:51
emphasize is there’s a focus that you
1:32:53
need to keep your you need to focus on
1:32:55
the right things when you’re trying to
1:32:57
do something. Focus. Focus. Um he he
1:33:01
used to say coaching baseball, slide
1:33:03
away from the tag. And and I was watched
1:33:06
a game just the other night where guys
1:33:08
run at first, head into second, the ball
1:33:10
comes from the outfield. There’s a pros,
1:33:13
right? The guy slides right into the
1:33:15
guy’s glove. If he would have slid to
1:33:18
the inside and reached out with his
1:33:19
hand, he’d have been safe. But he slid.
1:33:21
My dad would have hollered him. Slide
1:33:24
slide away from the tag. Go away from
1:33:26
the And but what he’s saying is there’s
1:33:28
danger coming in certain directions.
1:33:30
There’s pro slide away. Stay away from
1:33:33
that. Probably the most insightful thing
1:33:36
wasn’t specific words that he said, but
1:33:39
it’s his example. And his example over
1:33:42
and over and over again was his
1:33:44
priorities in life. His priorities in
1:33:46
life were faith, family, and friends.
1:33:49
That’s
1:33:52
that’s the best lesson I think I learned
1:33:54
that everything else is you can be
1:33:56
involved in sports and other but they’re
1:33:58
way down the list. The priority has to
1:34:00
be faith, family, and friends.
Father’s Teachings and Values
1:34:03
So there’s before my dad died,
1:34:05
fortunately a year or two before his his
1:34:08
last birthday, a year or two before he
1:34:11
died, I wrote out 13 things that I felt
1:34:14
like he really taught me and and I
1:34:16
really appreciated about him. And he
1:34:19
wasn’t a perfect dad and he had a temper
1:34:21
as a business person. He had a temper.
1:34:24
um didn’t always get along with his
1:34:26
employees and different things, but as a
1:34:29
dad, wow, 10 out of 10, you know,
1:34:32
phenomenal. I used to say to him, if I
1:34:34
could only be half the dad that you
1:34:36
were, I’m going to be a success.
1:34:38
So, you know, he is a great example for
1:34:40
me.
1:34:41
That’s awesome.
1:34:42
Yeah.
1:34:42
There’s a lot of stuff that you have
1:34:44
taught me over the years, uh, and tons
1:34:47
of lessons. I can think of more than 13.
1:34:48
So it means you’re probably a better dad
1:34:50
than your dad. But um [laughter]
1:34:53
you can only think of 13, but uh no
1:34:56
there’s so many. I mean it starts with
1:34:58
keeping Jesus at the center of
1:35:00
everything. And that’s obviously super
1:35:02
important and been passed down well. Uh
1:35:05
there’s things like work ethic and
1:35:07
making sure that um you lead as somebody
1:35:10
that people want to follow and represent
1:35:12
Christ. Well, uh, one of the other
1:35:14
things that stands out, and there’s a
1:35:16
ton, but one that stands out that I keep
1:35:18
remembering is look at the hole, not the
1:35:21
holes.
1:35:21
Oh, wow.
1:35:22
Right. And, and running a company, being
1:35:25
in all these different situations,
1:35:27
there’s holes everywhere. You know,
1:35:29
there’s things going wrong everywhere,
1:35:31
but the whole of what is trying to move
1:35:34
forward is really good. talk about how
1:35:37
at a high level how you see that
1:35:39
principle apply to leadership and
1:35:41
business and how you came up with that
1:35:43
maybe.
Focus on the Whole
1:35:44
Yeah. Well, um when we came back to
1:35:46
Chicago, we started to go to a
1:35:48
phenomenal church. I don’t want to get
1:35:50
into the names and stuff like that. Just
1:35:52
a phenomenal church with what I thought
1:35:54
was a phenomenal leader,
1:35:57
one of the most impactful churches in
1:35:59
the United States by far. Um and really
1:36:03
start to get involved. I mean really
1:36:05
really involved in some leadership
1:36:07
things and some uh you know um coaching
1:36:13
things and some consulting things. Um so
1:36:16
I started to see the inside of the
1:36:18
church and I realized that the culture
1:36:20
had a lot of fear in it and there were
1:36:24
there were problems with the culture to
1:36:27
really move go to the next level. And so
1:36:29
I thought well I’m going to write an
1:36:31
email
1:36:33
you know. So, I wrote on an email um
1:36:36
about this uh tried to do it in somewhat
1:36:39
constructive way, but as I’m writing the
1:36:41
email, I just stopped and it was like
1:36:46
God spoke to me and said, “Bill, you’re
1:36:47
concentrated on the holes rather than
1:36:50
the whole. This church is having more of
1:36:52
a positive impact than just about any
1:36:54
church.” And they’ve got holes. They You
1:36:59
can’t ignore the holes, right? You can’t
1:37:01
ignore the holes. You have to still go
1:37:04
after the holes, but it can’t be your
1:37:06
focus of every you have to keep in mind
1:37:08
the big picture focus. And that was
1:37:11
revolutionary to me because every
1:37:14
nonprofit has holes.
1:37:16
Every organization
1:37:18
that is uh that I’ve worked with and
1:37:20
been on the board of has holes. But if
1:37:23
you focus only on that, you get negative
1:37:26
people, negative
1:37:29
uh interactions. always this uh rather
1:37:32
than thinking it can be accomplished
1:37:34
kind of you know why we can’t do it type
1:37:36
of thing and so this idea of keeping the
1:37:39
picture on the on the whole is such an
1:37:42
important thing. Um yeah that’s how that
1:37:45
kind of came about.
Project World Impact
1:37:46
Yeah.
1:37:47
By the way when you came back on that as
1:37:50
a senior at Taylor I’ll never forget
1:37:53
when you said you wanted to start
1:37:55
Project World Impact. You might not even
1:37:57
remember this, but when you were talking
1:37:59
to me about how you wanted to do
1:38:01
something to use what you’ve learned to
1:38:02
make it a real difference in the world,
1:38:06
you also said, “I think I can succeed
1:38:09
because I think I can outwork
1:38:11
everybody.”
1:38:12
Yeah.
1:38:12
And if I outwork everybody, I think
1:38:14
there’s a good chance that I’ll succeed.
1:38:16
And that’s the truth.
1:38:18
And what’s impressed me though is how
1:38:20
you’ve learned to do that. But I also
1:38:22
see yourself with your boys and how
1:38:24
you’re involved in their sports and how
1:38:26
you’re involved with just all sorts of
1:38:30
things with the kids and with your wife
1:38:32
and and I I you’ve been able to work
1:38:36
like crazy hours. I don’t know how you
1:38:38
sleep and and at the same time, you
1:38:41
know, you’ve grown spiritually and as a
1:38:43
dad and as a husband, which is great.
Instilling Leadership in Youth
1:38:46
Yeah. Well, I had a good example of a
1:38:48
dad that helped me with all of that.
1:38:50
[snorts] Uh, I’m curious talking about
1:38:52
my kids and now you’ve got four
1:38:54
grandkids. Um,
1:38:57
talk about the leadership lessons that
1:38:59
you want to instill in the next
1:39:01
generation, whether it be your grandkids
1:39:03
or whether it be just youth you’re
1:39:05
working with or the people who have kids
1:39:09
uh at this next generation age.
1:39:12
Yeah. Um,
1:39:14
so the reason we came back to Chicago
1:39:17
was to be near Heidi. her first had just
1:39:19
been born. That first is now 18 years
1:39:21
old. Graduated from high school, going
1:39:24
on to med school down in Texas. Pretty
1:39:26
crazy. Um the the other one is 15. She’s
1:39:31
going to be a sophomore. And super
1:39:34
talented kids. Um I was really involved
1:39:37
in their life when they were here in
1:39:39
Chicago. But about four or five years
1:39:41
ago, four years ago, they moved down to
1:39:43
Texas. I felt abandoned almost because I
1:39:46
was so involved in the rest. I thought
1:39:48
it was a good move to move to Texas. I’m
1:39:50
not against that. I think that was the
1:39:52
right move. Um Heidi’s husband is Matt
1:39:55
is the CFO of Klein Tools and so Klein
1:39:59
has their headquarters down there. He
1:40:00
had kind of resisted moving down for a
1:40:03
lot of years and finally decided, hey,
1:40:04
you know, it’s just got to be. And so
1:40:06
they felt like moving down there. It’s
1:40:08
been good. But I lost the relationship
1:40:11
with my granddaughters that was just so
1:40:13
close somewhat. So there’s some guys
1:40:16
that I’m friends with that are good
1:40:18
examples of how they try to keep
1:40:19
relationship with their grandkids. And I
1:40:21
was watching them and I thought, how do
1:40:23
I keep the relationship alive? So I
1:40:26
started to write, this is now
1:40:30
three years ago.
1:40:32
Three years ago, I started to write a
1:40:34
daily text to my granddaughters. One’s
1:40:38
Aubrey, one’s Haley. So, we call it the
1:40:40
aha thought for the day. Aubrey Haley
1:40:43
thought for the day. And it’s
1:40:46
fascinating. I wondered whether I’d be
1:40:47
able to do it, you know, even for a week
1:40:50
or two or a month. It’s now been three
1:40:52
years. And and I talk about all sorts of
1:40:56
subjects like
1:40:59
my family. They didn’t know my family at
1:41:01
all. The my grandparents, they didn’t
1:41:03
know. Um they didn’t know my aunts and
1:41:06
uncles. They didn’t know a lot of, you
1:41:08
know, the background of how my
1:41:10
grandfather came over from Poland or how
1:41:12
my mother grew up in Newf Finland. Um,
1:41:15
they didn’t know it. So, I wrote little
1:41:18
bits to them.
1:41:20
They didn’t know all the struggles I’ve
1:41:22
gone through. Why did I end up really f
1:41:26
becoming a follower of Jesus with all my
1:41:28
heart? They didn’t know all that. So,
1:41:30
oh, I could take what are some of the
1:41:31
life lessons I’ve learned? What are some
1:41:34
of the struggles I’ve gone through? And
1:41:36
so I try to think about, you know, that
1:41:39
and write something. But the thing I
1:41:41
want them, and I emphasize to them over
1:41:42
and over again, and it comes back to
1:41:44
what’s the principle I want them to
1:41:46
learn the most often. God’s got a
1:41:48
special plan for their life.
God’s Plan for the Next Generation
1:41:52
A special plan for their life. And I
1:41:54
want to help them discover that special
1:41:56
plan for their life. Um, and they’ve
1:41:59
gone through some major health issues.
1:42:02
And and none of that’s going to be
1:42:04
wasted at all. God’s got a special plan
1:42:07
for their life. And I want them to know
1:42:09
it.
1:42:11
Oh, really strong. I mean, really
1:42:14
strong. Deep down in here, how proud I
1:42:17
am of them and how I just can’t wait to
1:42:19
see how that plays out
1:42:21
with your two boys. I mean, being around
1:42:24
them, you can see what how God’s already
1:42:27
shaping them. I mean, unbelievable
1:42:30
Levi’s ability to to build things and to
1:42:35
to be able to see things, how things,
1:42:37
it’s amazing his ability to do that. I
1:42:41
want him to know that he’s got a God’s
1:42:43
got a special plan in his life. And and
1:42:46
Judah is probably one of the most ten I
1:42:49
play ping pong with Judah now and Levi,
1:42:51
too. But Judah’s six years old. How many
1:42:54
six-year-olds can hit? He’s left-handed.
1:42:56
Can you go p Pop
1:43:00
back and forth with her there. How many
1:43:01
six-year-olds can do that at ping pong
1:43:03
table? Very few. He’s got amazing
1:43:06
athletic ability. But God’s got a
1:43:08
special plan. He’s going to be a
1:43:10
professional athlete probably someday. I
1:43:11
mean, he’s that good at different
1:43:13
sports.
1:43:14
Um
1:43:15
God’s got a special plan. That’s what I
1:43:17
want them to understand relative to
1:43:19
whether they’re a leader or whether
1:43:22
they’re just a a doctor somewhere or
1:43:24
whether they’re an athlete or whether
1:43:27
they’re a construction an engineer,
1:43:29
whatever it is. I just want them to know
1:43:32
about that. I Yeah. So, that’s kind of
1:43:34
what I’m trying to trying to get them to
1:43:36
sense and what I want other people to
1:43:38
sense that nothing you go through is
1:43:40
wasted.
1:43:42
Nothing you go through God can use it
1:43:43
all.
Embracing Life’s Journey
1:43:44
Yeah. I love how it all circles back to
1:43:46
kind of this culmination of knowledge
1:43:48
that you’ve had of like finding your
1:43:50
perfect place because there’s nothing
1:43:52
wasted, right? There it’s it’s making
1:43:55
you who you are and God is developing
1:43:59
you into somebody that you may not even
1:44:01
know why you’re going through an
1:44:03
experience, but he’s using it without
1:44:05
you knowing it uh or or even
1:44:07
understanding it.
1:44:08
Yeah. There’s some guys I talk with,
1:44:09
they think they’ve ruined their lives.
1:44:11
they’ve gone through a messy divorce or
1:44:15
you know this one guy know
1:44:19
yeah did some things where he’s got a
1:44:21
felony
1:44:23
you know and he’s like I’ve lost it no
1:44:26
you haven’t lost it God’s if you allow
1:44:28
him to all things work together for
1:44:30
God’s good to those that love him are
1:44:32
called accorded purposes so you know
1:44:35
that’s a really interesting thing yeah
Closing Thoughts
1:44:37
yeah well [snorts]
1:44:38
this is really special having you on the
1:44:41
Oh wow.
1:44:41
Uh I I want to finish with 10 rapid fire
1:44:44
questions where you just say the first
1:44:45
thing that comes to mind and there’s no
1:44:47
wrong answer.
1:44:48
Okay. Now I’ve heard these 10 questions
1:44:49
because are they?
1:44:51
Yeah, these are going to be different.
1:44:52
Some different. Okay.
1:44:53
Some different.
1:44:54
Uh but the first one will be the same.
1:44:56
Who’s the first person you think of when
1:44:58
I say servant leadership?
1:45:01
Um
1:45:03
so obviously from a Christian
1:45:05
standpoint, Jesus. But from a work from
1:45:08
a life standpoint um there’s two guys um
1:45:13
and and then one other person who kind
1:45:15
of helped lead me towards Christ. But
1:45:18
the two guys, one Australian business
1:45:20
guy, his name’s David Ratcliffe. You
1:45:22
know
Podcast Guests Discussed
1:45:22
We had him on the podcast.
1:45:24
We had That’s right.
1:45:25
And the second guy you’ve had on the
1:45:27
podcast too, Burn Burchie, who’s Jen’s
1:45:29
grandfather, your wife’s grandfather. Um
1:45:32
those two guys are successful,
1:45:35
successful. successful business guys who
1:45:37
have heart to serve. I mean, they just
1:45:39
have heart to serve.
Influential Engineer
1:45:40
And then there was an engineer that I
1:45:42
worked with that also worked out in the
1:45:44
plant. He had that same attitude and it
1:45:46
was his faith that drew me towards
1:45:50
Christ
1:45:51
uh to be a real Christ follower.
Five Words Description
1:45:53
All right. Five words the most describe
1:45:55
you.
1:45:56
So
1:45:58
words are tough. Can I use a phrase?
1:46:00
Use whatever you want.
1:46:01
Okay. So one is competitive. I told you
1:46:04
how competitive I am. I mean,
1:46:06
it wasn’t a positive necessarily later
1:46:08
on because you can’t be content if
1:46:10
you’re too competitive.
1:46:12
So, you know, I’ve had to kind of work
1:46:14
that out.
Armor Bearer Story
1:46:15
Um, the second is a weird thing, but
1:46:17
it’s it’s uh an armor bearer,
1:46:21
and it’s a weird in the Bible in the
1:46:23
story, there’s Saul’s son, Jonathan, is
1:46:25
going to attack the enemy. It’s just him
1:46:27
and his armor bearer that they’re going
1:46:29
to go up and take on this army. Just the
1:46:31
two of them climb up a hill. And but
1:46:34
Jonathan feels called to do it. And so
1:46:37
he tells the armor bearer, “I feel
1:46:38
called to do this.” The armor bearer
1:46:40
says to him, “I’m with you. Let’s go.
1:46:44
You’ve got me heart. All my heart and
1:46:46
soul is going to be with you.” And when
1:46:49
I hear that, it resonated with me that
1:46:52
that’s kind of where I’ve been in my
1:46:54
career. I haven’t always been the
1:46:55
Jonathan to go and take the hill, but
1:46:58
I’ve been there for the top leaders. I
1:47:00
feel that way for you that I’m part of
1:47:03
your armor bearer. Yeah, let’s go. We
1:47:06
can take the hill. Let’s go. So, I think
1:47:07
that’s it. Um, people who know me would
1:47:11
say I’m a crazy sports fan, especially
1:47:13
for Detroit sports and University of
1:47:15
Michigan. Again, almost too much because
1:47:18
when they lose, like the Tigers going
1:47:20
through what they’re going through right
1:47:22
now, it causes me problems
1:47:24
um when they when they go through this
1:47:26
problem. Um, so I think that and then uh
1:47:30
this faith, family, friends, people
1:47:32
would say that’s where my
1:47:34
my focus is.
Recommended Authors
1:47:36
Those are good. All right. Uh, author
1:47:38
you most recommend to people.
1:47:41
So I really loved reading Jim Collins. I
1:47:47
know his books are kind of
1:47:50
It’s been a while since he
1:47:51
He just came out with a new one that’s
1:47:52
really good. Did he? It’s unbelievable.
1:47:54
Oh, I can’t wait.
1:47:55
Yeah. spent the last 10 years working on
1:47:56
it.
1:47:57
Okay, that’s great. Yeah, his books
1:47:59
transformed my thinking.
1:48:00
And then the other one is Patrick
1:48:02
Glencion. I love the way he wrote as
1:48:04
kind of a story and you learn a lesson
1:48:06
by by by this story. Um, and I’ve
1:48:11
happened to have the opportunity to hear
1:48:14
them both in person as as well speak and
1:48:18
I just transformational in my mind.
Favorite Travel Destinations
1:48:21
All right. Favorite place you’ve been?
1:48:24
I’ve been so many places. I I followed
1:48:27
from a business standpoint. I think I’ve
1:48:29
been to 40 countries overall, but um
1:48:34
both Australia and and Japan
1:48:38
are uh places that I really loved. Uh
1:48:42
personally, there’s this little group of
1:48:44
islands in Lake Hiron, upper Michigan
1:48:47
called the Lasho Islands. And my dad and
1:48:50
I used to go out there, go fishing three
1:48:52
or four times a year, pike fishing,
1:48:54
northern pike, and uh my heart to a
1:48:57
large extent is there. Um I love that.
Skill Development
1:49:00
So
1:49:00
what’s a skill you wish you developed
1:49:03
that you never developed yet?
1:49:05
Oh wow, that is a good question. A skill
1:49:08
that I’ve never developed.
1:49:10
So what I’m trying to work on is trying
1:49:13
to not be quite so blunt.
1:49:17
I feel like it’s been a detriment for me
1:49:20
to be as blunt as I am. So, I give
1:49:24
people permission to talk to me when I’m
1:49:28
too blunt to give me a signal. Maybe
1:49:32
uh I won’t totally say it, but when I
1:49:36
when I come across as too blunt, there’s
1:49:39
there can be a signal that if you trust
1:49:41
people and they say, you know, kind of
1:49:43
back off. But even to this day, I find
1:49:46
myself like in board meetings and and I
1:49:48
just have such strong opinions and and I
1:49:52
just say it way too blunt.
Favorite Memory with Mom
1:49:54
Yeah.
1:49:55
Wow. Um what’s your favorite memory with
1:49:58
mom?
1:49:59
Oh wow. The favorite memory we’re going
1:50:03
on a cruise in a week.
1:50:04
Okay.
1:50:05
Um we love going on cruises. I mean
1:50:09
absolutely love it. It’s just the two of
1:50:11
us. We spend almost all the time
1:50:13
together. We don’t even get off the ship
1:50:15
anymore because, you know, she’s
1:50:17
she’s got major mobility issues. Uh so
1:50:20
we just spend our time together eating
1:50:22
and going to entertainment and and just,
1:50:25
you know, exploring the ship and doing
1:50:27
different activities that are on the
1:50:28
ship. Um
1:50:31
I really love that. I I think our time
1:50:33
in Japan was special
1:50:35
because we saw, you know, it happen. Um
1:50:40
yeah, there’s 50 years. It’ll be 52
1:50:43
years in December that we’ve been
1:50:44
married. So there’s we went through some
1:50:47
difficult times. You know, you’re
1:50:48
hearing a lot of the positives,
1:50:50
but like when Denise was 27 and I was
1:50:53
what, 28, 29, 29, 30, her mom got really
1:50:57
sick.
1:50:58
We ended up taking care of them for her
1:51:01
mom and her dad who were a lot older.
1:51:02
Her dad was 50 when she was born almost.
1:51:05
And uh so they were she was a late baby
1:51:09
in life. And so
1:51:12
she was super close to her mom and
1:51:16
her mom had the mentality of like a
1:51:18
three-year-old
1:51:19
and so Denise had to take care of her
1:51:21
mom and still had Heidi was a little
1:51:24
baby at the time and you know we pulled
1:51:27
together and we pulled through it and
1:51:29
and uh yeah until her folks passed away.
1:51:33
Those things I look back on and just
1:51:35
have a lot of admiration for her.
Favorite Bible Book
1:51:37
Yeah.
1:51:37
Yeah. Uh, you talked about the Bible a
1:51:40
little bit. Favorite book of the Bible?
1:51:41
James, by far. I know you don’t usually
1:51:44
ask people that, but there’s no book
1:51:45
that’s even close
1:51:47
to the book of James to me because it’s
1:51:49
just so practical. I love practical
1:51:52
people. So, I’ll tell you, funny thing.
1:51:54
When you ask a lot of people, they say
1:51:56
their favorite book of the Bible is
1:51:57
Psalms. Um,
1:51:59
oh,
1:52:00
a lot of people do. Okay.
1:52:01
It’s my least favorite. One of my least
1:52:03
favorite. [laughter]
1:52:04
And part of it is I have read Psalms and
1:52:08
I look at it from a theological
1:52:10
standpoint. What can I grab from the
1:52:12
theology? And I think Psalms is tough
1:52:17
from a theology standpoint in a lot of
1:52:19
it’s 150 chapters and it’s tough.
1:52:22
So somebody encouraged me to read it
1:52:24
again and I’m just finished. I’m on a
1:52:26
chapter 148 today. And don’t read it
1:52:30
from a theology standpoint. read it as
1:52:32
if somebody’s kind of crying out, just
1:52:35
releasing their heart to God. Read
1:52:37
Psalms. So, I’ve gone through and read
1:52:39
it that way. I’ve gotten a lot more out
1:52:41
of it.
1:52:42
Just kind of an emotional expression.
1:52:45
So, but James by far.
Best Advice Received
1:52:46
All right. Best advice you’ve ever
1:52:48
received.
1:52:49
There was a guy uh business guy who
1:52:51
taught a class I was in and he saw all
1:52:54
the things I was doing. Um so involved.
1:52:58
um he’s the one who encouraged me to be
1:53:01
the chairman of that school board and I
1:53:03
was teaching a class and like I said way
1:53:06
over involved way over involved in a lot
1:53:08
of different things and he came to me
1:53:10
and he said Bill he said uh when you say
1:53:13
yes to one thing you’re saying no to
1:53:15
something else
1:53:17
and that’s hit me so that’s part of the
1:53:20
reason why perfect place is so great
1:53:23
because when you know your perfect place
1:53:24
and I get asked all the time would I be
1:53:26
involved in this would I be involved in
1:53:28
at whatever and I go back to perfect
1:53:30
place and say, “Is that something that I
1:53:33
feel I’m motivated for? Is it something
1:53:37
that I feel I’ve been, you know, shaped
1:53:40
for? Is this a God thing or just a thing
1:53:42
I can do?” And so I I try to say no. I
1:53:46
say no to a lot more things than I say
1:53:48
yes.
Servant Leadership Importance
1:53:49
Um,
1:53:50
yeah. So I think that I think my dad’s
1:53:53
example of faith, family, and friends is
1:53:55
the other thing that kind of if if if
1:53:59
people don’t catch anything else in this
1:54:02
podcast, I hope they catch that
1:54:04
that that’s where the priorities need to
1:54:06
be.
1:54:07
Yeah, that’s good. Okay, finally some
1:54:10
podcast on servant leadership. And you
1:54:12
know this podcast better than anyone
1:54:13
because you’ve helped so much behind the
1:54:15
scenes. Uh why do you think people
1:54:17
should care about becoming better
1:54:19
servant leaders? the purpose for the
1:54:21
podcast in my mind. Uh so I’ve listened
1:54:24
to all hundred of them or 90s something
1:54:26
of them that we’ve done. Um
1:54:29
I’m amazed how often I say, “Wow, I had
1:54:32
forgotten about that. Wow, that’s really
1:54:34
insightful. I need to add it.” Or, “Wow,
1:54:36
I thought of it this way, but that
1:54:38
causes me to think of it different.” So
1:54:40
the podcast,
1:54:42
there’s a lot of times nothing
1:54:44
revolutionary new, right? But what it
1:54:47
does is it reminds people. It it
1:54:50
re-energizes people. It provides uh kind
1:54:54
of examples of how other people have
1:54:57
taken these concepts and implemented
1:54:59
them. And to me that’s the importance
1:55:02
overall is just that that
1:55:04
um you can be a great leader without
1:55:07
being a leader of fear. I think uh
1:55:10
leadership by fear is the opposite of a
1:55:13
servant leader. I think you have to be
1:55:15
accountable. It’s not good to be a soft
1:55:18
a soft servant leader. You have to hold
1:55:20
people accountable. Um but but I think
1:55:24
concept where your management style is
1:55:25
primarily fear. Do it my way or you’re
1:55:28
going to be punished
1:55:29
is is horrible. So this reinforces you
1:55:32
don’t have to manage that way.
Closing Remarks
1:55:34
Yeah. Well, this has been really special
1:55:37
for me. Thank you for being episode
1:55:39
[snorts] 100. Um this is such a treat.
1:55:43
super long episode or whatever. You’re
1:55:45
going to have to think about whether you
1:55:47
want to do this as a single episode or
1:55:49
maybe two episodes or something.
1:55:51
Yeah.
1:55:51
Yeah.
1:55:52
Well, it’s special because uh I have
1:55:54
learned all of my best things from you
1:55:56
and I’ve developed a lot of bad things
1:55:58
behind the scenes. Uh
1:55:59
a lot of bad things,
1:56:00
but you and mom are uh truly some of the
1:56:03
best servant leaders and I’m thankful
1:56:05
that you are my parents and this is
1:56:07
special to have you here.
1:56:08
Yeah. I mean, it’s been the greatest
1:56:12
gift that God could have given me to be
1:56:14
able to work with you
1:56:16
and to see you grow and stuff. So, it’s
1:56:18
been it’s just been really really really
1:56:21
really
1:56:22
uh special for me. So, that’s great.
Podcast Conclusion
1:56:26
Thank you for listening to this episode
1:56:28
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If
1:56:31
you enjoyed what you heard, please give
1:56:32
it a thumbs up and leave a comment
1:56:34
below. Don’t forget to subscribe and hit
1:56:38
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1:56:40
update. Be sure to check out the servant
1:56:42
leadership podcast.org for more updates
1:56:44
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