Bob Thomas's Intro

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Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast, we're joined by Bob Thomas, an NFL record- setting kicker turned Illinois

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Supreme Court justice. Bob spent over a decade in the NFL, including 10 seasons with the Chicago Bears, where he became

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one of the Bears all-time leading scorers. After football, Bob's journey took an unexpected turn. He pursued law,

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eventually serving as a justice on the Illinois Supreme Court and even becoming Chief Justice. In this episode, Bob

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shares what it was like playing for Mike Ditka and alongside Walter Payton, whose impact went far beyond the game. Bob

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also shares an extremely personal story about Walter Payton, one that gave him a whole new understanding of what it means

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to be a servant leader. Bob also opens up about leading under pressure, making tough calls, and how faith shaped his

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leadership on the field and in the courtroom. If you've ever faced setbacks, tough choices, or moments that

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tested your character, Bob's story will challenge you to lead with integrity under pressure. Bob, thank you for

Welcome Bob Thomas

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joining us on the Servant Leadership Podcast. Chris, it's fun to be here. Thanks for having me. It is amazing to

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sit in the presence of greatness. Oh, man. Yeah. My wife says, "Your honor, take out the garbage." show. It's not a

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big deal. It's It's not every day that you get to sit next to somebody who's a top five all-time scoring leader for an

Bob Explains How He Ended Up On The Chicago Bears

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NFL team. Uh that's an amazing stat. And your journey from being on the Bears to

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being a judge on the Illinois Supreme Court is amazing. How did you end up on the Bears? Yeah, that's a good story. Um

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I I went to uh school in Rochester, New York. Grew up in Rochester. Kicked a long field goal in high school. I was a

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soccer player. Basically, my dad uh was a professional soccer player, came from

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Italy, born in Paris, went to school in Italy. So, I learned to kick and um

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after I played soccer and got to kick on my high school team. Um and that was in

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the day, Chris, when you know, now there's soccer teams on every corner. Um

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and kids are learning how to kick footballs that may never have played soccer. But at that time the few few

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place kickers in the NFL were even soccer style kickers. So I was in that second wave of soccer style kickers. And

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I kicked a long field goal in high school. Um got a letter uh from Era Parse Sean. Uh shifted gears. Um I was a

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walk-on at Notre Dame. My parents I was in a bluecollar family. My parents

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really didn't have the money but they said we'll send you there and see what happens. um you couldn't play football

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as a varsity football as a freshman. There were three freshman games. So I

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went there as a freshman and sophomore year I became the starting kicker. Um kicked the uh winning field goal in the

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Sugar Bowl in 1973 against Alabama. Probably my worst kick I ever hit, but it went through, thank God. Otherwise,

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we wouldn't be having this podcast. Drafted by the Rams, made it till the

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last cut. uh they resigned me at the uh end right at their end of their season.

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And there was a little known rule that if a team signs you and cuts you and

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resigns you um you have to go through something called procedural waiverss where every other team in the league

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gets a chance to pick you up. So when the Rams resign resigned me, I went

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through procedural waiverss and the Redskins now the commanders the Redskins and the Bears both picked me up. The

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Bears were lower in the standings. Some things never change. And since they were lower in the standings, I got awarded to

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the Bears and played 10 years with the Bears. Wow. That's the long way of

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getting there. Long l long-hand fashion, but uh but yeah, that's what happened.

Playing With Teammates Like Walter Payton

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You had an amazing career. Most NFL players only play for a few years and you played a very long career. What was

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it like just playing with such amazing people and also becoming such a powerful

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leader in the locker room yourself? Boy, to go come in with Walder Payton uh was

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really terrific. Um and uh to play, you talk about greatness. I mean, I think he

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was the best football player ever to put on a uniform. You know, he could um

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block, tackle, certainly run and catch. And uh he actually a few people know

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this but he punted and also place kicked. I was glad he chose not to play be the place kicker for the team too. So

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yeah, playing with guys like that that the neat thing we didn't make the money obviously that they make uh now um but

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the players were together for years, right? I mean typically a few rookies

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would make the team but I played with guys for 8 10 years and now with free

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agency the way it is, I mean it changes. It changes for the fans but it also changes for the team, right? You're with

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different teammates basically every year. So, we we talk about how we made less money, but we had more fun.

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We we talk a lot on this podcast about servant leadership and you mentioned guys like Walter Payton. Uh I know

Walter Payton and Servant Leadership

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you've played with Mike, played for Mike Ditka, um or with Mike, like what was it

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like being around those guys? Yeah, I you know, as I said before, I I missed

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out on a Super Bowl and that's a story. I was in San Diego in 1985, played with

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the Chargers. Uh 85 obviously was the year the Bears went to the Super Bowl.

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Um speaking of servant leadership, I remember getting cut. I had my best year in

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1984 and Ditka called me up and I was released and he told me it wasn't fair. They had drafted Kevin Butler in the

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fourth round. So it was a faded comp play that he was probably going to be the kicker. I played 10 years. They had

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another he was a great kicker. They had another guy who came and played for another 10 years. And um after I was

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cut, I went uh down in the locker room. I waited upstairs in the office area

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until I knew my teammates would would uh be in meetings at 9:00. Um and so I

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waited till about 9:15 cuz I was a little broken up, but I wanted to get back to the locker room to get my shoes

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and different personal belongings. I thought I'd play again, which I did in San Diego in ' 85. and I go to my locker

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and lockers in the NFL aren't like lockers in the local high school. They're big enough to sit in. And that's

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exactly what Walder Payton was doing. He was sitting in my locker. I I guess I wasn't smart enough to realize that if

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Walter was late for a meeting, they might still play him on Sunday. And I remember it, Chris, like it was

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yesterday. He he dragged me outside, grabbed me by my hand, dragged me outside the equipment room door. We sat

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on um railroad ties. And to me, as I already indicated, the greatest football

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player of all time, buried my tears soaked eyes in his chest and told me

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what it meant uh for him to have the opportunity to play with me, a broken down kicker, for 10 years. And you know

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that I missed out on a Super Bowl, but I didn't miss out on that moment. And to me, there's a perfect example of, you

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know, servant leadership, right? I mean, Walter stopped thinking about himself, thought about me, and made a terrific

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impact in my life. Wow. I think it's really interesting because a story like

Staying Humble With Fame

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that, uh, you always think through different athlete stories and you walk out onto the field and there's thousands

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of fans cheering, it's easy probably to get a big head. Um, how did you deal

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with that and stay humble at the same time knowing that that so many people were cheering your name and how do you

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think other guys dealt with that? That's that's a really good question. Um I you

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know being a kicker it was probably a little easier to be grounded because you you you know they threw you up in the

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air when you made a kick and and literally uh Dick actually grabbed my face mask after missing a kick and

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started jacking my head up and down by pulling on the face mask. So you you learn to live a little bit more in the

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moment. Um and try to realize that you know kicks are mutually exclusive and um

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you didn't just become a bad kicker when you missed or a great kicker when you made one. Uh I think my my faith helped

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me with that. Um I didn't really uh I didn't find my worth to be uh based on

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uh whether I had a great game on Sunday or a poor game on Sunday. it became, you

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know, because I was a child of God and he loved me. Um, and thinking about his

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sovereignty and his sovereign plan helped. Um, I think people, I'm sure

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I've heard before that people think it's kind of trit when these guys uh get

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interviewed after making a putt or uh winning a football game and winning a

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division and, you know, giving glory to God. But um I mean when I became the

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Bears leading scorer, which I was at one time, you know, that's what's painted on the game ball, you know, to God be the

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glory. So um really faith becomes an important part in in someone's life and

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the rest kind of sloughs off. Not that you don't care, um not that you aren't hurt or affected when um you don't do

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your best. Uh, and but but still you know that um God has a plan for your

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life. That's so good. What were some of the or at least one of your favorite

Memories of Playing In The NFL

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moments being in the NFL? I It's every kid's dream. You know, I've got a couple kids and they talk about being in the

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NFL constantly. You hear that. When you think through it, what were the highlights that that first come to mind?

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Well, the the biggest highlight with uh the Bears, and I I don't know if it

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still is, but it was one of the 25 greatest moments in in Bear history when

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they compiled all this was in 1977. We played the the Giants um in what they

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called an ice bowl. I know that the Green Bay Packers Super Bowl was an ice bowl, but they called this an ice bowl.

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And uh the announcers were indicating that it was the worst field conditions they ever saw. I mean, there literally

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was a sheet of ice on the field and at certain uh portions of the field, you

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know, you would stick through the ice and there'd be freezing water underneath it. It was really a mess. And I, you

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know, thank the good Lord I kicked a field goal in sudden death overtime. We needed to win the game to go to the

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playoffs for the first time in 14 years. and uh Kit goes through the uprights and

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a and a couple of the rest of the story type of moments where um you know we're

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in New York, we're playing in New York and my parents were at the game and um I

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you had missed a couple of field goals earlier. I think I ended up two for four in the day. It was hard to it was hard

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to stand up on that last kick. You know, Roland Harper and Walder Payton were making snow angels to try to get a spot

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where I wouldn't slip. And uh my mom, it was freezing for one reason, but she

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couldn't watch anymore as we were going down the field. And she went into the lady's room and this lady comes running

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in. We won. We won. So my mom figured, well, we're in New York. You know, it's probably New York one. And it was Jack

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Party's wife, the uh the coach's wife. So that happened. And then Bob Aalini

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was the quarterback and uh he lived in New York. and he and he said, "Why don't

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our parents and us go to have dinner and why don't you stay here tonight and we'll just go back the next day or 2

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days later to back to Chicago." So, we did that, but it wasn't in the day of car phones. So, we got lost and lost

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Avali. Had no idea where we were. So, I asked my parents if um I could go to the

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airport and go back because the team was going to have a celebration back in Chicago. So they took me to the airport.

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I got a ticket and I was sitting in coach and I still remember Brent Musberger, the announcer was in first

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class. He came back to sit with me to talk about the game. We get to Chicago, there's 57,000 fans at O'Hare and I my

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commercial flight had beat the team plane back and all these people are

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waiting for the team to get off the plane. So now I said, "Oh, this is going to be great. I'm going to meet my

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teammates at the gate as they get off the plane, right? And it had just made that kick. So, I'm trying to make my way

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to the gate and and of course because of the crowd, they have police and they have a fencing up. And I got there and I

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said, "Hey, I I've got to go in there. The team's coming in and this policeman

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says, "There's 10,000 people behind you. They all have to go in there, too, pal. Who you?" And I said, "Well, no, you

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don't understand." I was the kicker. and he looked at me and one guy recognized me and they lifted me over the gate and

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so I met the team. So that was kind of a special moment. Um so most of the

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special moments though um like I said they the the most important moment were

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were things with teammates like the one I told you about Payton. Um when Ditka first came in I got cut by him twice.

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the first time he came in. I I went to Detroit when their kicker walked out of camp and the first game was the Bears

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against Detroit. I got a game ball for that and after the game it was Payton again. He came to the tunnel and gave me

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a hug. So, most of the things are player related, but as far as kicks go, uh that

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one in New York was pretty special. Those are amazing stories. You talk about getting cut twice by Dicka. Yes.

Dealing With Getting Cut

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It doesn't feel good being cut, I'm sure. And you've had that happen multiple times. How did you deal with

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that? Uh, I I can't say they weren't difficult. Again, prayer helped, you

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know, having a great wife, my wife Maggie, you know, and then eventually, my first son was born in ' 81.

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Eventually having kids, too, put things into perspective. I was fortunate uh in

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that it didn't take long to get picked up by another team. Um, as I said in in

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' 82 when Ditka came in, they kept a guy uh by the name of Rovetto. I got cut.

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Eddie Murray walked out of camp in Detroit. I went into Detroit. Then there was the strike season. Um and uh then

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Ditk Roto had a tough time. Excuse me. Ditka cut him and brought me back and I spent another two years there. So it

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wasn't very long. And then when I got I didn't have a long time to think about it in um uh in 85 because I played in '

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85 with the Chargers. And then in ' 86, I made the team with New York Giants and

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tore up my ankle right before the first game. Went on injured reserve and they went to the Super Bowl and won in ' 86.

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So I guess the Lord didn't want me to have a Super Bowl ring. It is an interesting journey and you you played

From Football to The Illinois Supreme Court

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for so long, which is one of the amazing things. But but on the flip side, most

15:12
people would think that after the Bears, you'd be done. And the Bears was only the start of your journey and and all

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these other teams as well. I say the Bears just knowing it was a long time, but football was only part of your journey. At some point, you as a judge

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joined the Illinois Supreme Court. And I would not naturally think an athlete

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would end up on the Illinois Supreme Court. How did that happen? Yeah, that that is an interesting story. I I had

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I'd be interviewed for three years. I played for the Bears before I went to law school. My brother also went to

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Notre Dame and he when he got out, he was three years behind me, he went to Loyola Law School and he told me the

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dean of the law school at the time wanted to have uh breakfast with me to

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talk about something. The dean used to the dean of Lyola used to be a professor at Notre Dame, so he knew my career. So

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I had breakfast with him and and he said, 'You know, I keep reading about the fact you're going to go to law school. I said, 'Yeah, maybe this off

16:11
season. and he goes, "No, maybe this season." So, I went and asked Jim Finch, the general manager, and he said, "I

16:17
typically would say no, but I think a kicker needs more to think about than just his last kick." So, he said yes.

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And I went to law school at night during the season and full-time days during the off season. Uh, so it took four years. I

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was technically a day student because most of my hours were during the day, but it took four years. And then I got

16:37
out and I practiced while I, you know, I played football and then practiced during the offseason and then in '86

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kind of practiced full-time. Went to this law firm in Wheaton and told them I wanted to be a

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judge and I ran for this circuit judge in um in

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1988 and uh there were like 80ome thousand ballots cast and won by 271

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votes. Oh wow. So then six years later, I ran for the appellet court and that

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wasn't a close election. Ran against a Kain County judge and and and and won with a significant margin. And then

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again in 2000, I ran for the Supreme Court and against uh two other judges.

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Um and uh in the three-way race, again, I I don't think it would be considered

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close. I think I won by 12 percentage points in a three-way race. And so I spent from 2000 to 2020 on the Supreme

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Court and was chief justice from '05 to08. Wow. I I think everyone has first

Illinois Supreme Court Explained

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heard of the US Supreme Court and then hearing about the Illinois Supreme Court. What are the biggest differences

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just to explain for our users? Well, there's some similarities and that you

17:52
you're you ostensibly are are getting the biggest cases in the

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state. here. Obviously, we're where their decisions impact the country, our

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decisions impact the state, you know, and they're dealing typically with federal questions and we're typically

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dealing with state questions. So, there's some differences there. Um the practical differences are that uh

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federal judges serve for life where state judges I mean you could say we almost do have like 10ear terms and then

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it's a retention where 60% of the voters would have to vote to keep you in. So

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there um you have decisions like for example as far as somebody filing a

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lawsuit everybody has a right to file a lawsuit. You get your trial if it goes that far. appeals. You have a right to

18:43
an appeal. But just like the US Supreme Court, the Illinois Supreme Court, most

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of the cases we decided whether we wanted to take them or not. Um, you had

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to take constitutional questions and a few other areas you had to take the case. But most of the time the seven

19:01
justices are looking at the cases and four of them have to decide to take the case. And then uh the big as I said the

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biggest similarity is you're shaping the law of the state and they're shaping the law of the country.

Servant Leadership as a Judge And Justice

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It feels like a lot of pressure to be shaping the laws that are going to affect millions of people. When you

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think through leadership and servant leadership as both a judge and as a

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Supreme Court justice, how how do you see servant leadership play out? Right.

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When you sit there in the trial court, you see the people in front of you, right? You hear the witnesses, you look

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to the side and there are the jurors. Um you see the emotions of the people and

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uh the impact that it makes on their lives. And I think um that has to carry

19:52
over regardless of the fact of whether you're seeing the people or not. Right? So when you get to the courts of review,

19:57
the appellet court, the Supreme Court, you have to really think about how there are names or there are faces behind the

20:05
names. There is that same emotion. There is the same impact on their lives maybe

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more so because at least at the Supreme Court very rarely will it go to the US

20:15
Supreme Court. So you are the end of the day. Um so I think uh servant leadership

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comes in where you have to still realize the impact of your decision and the

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human side of it. Um and I think that's what good leaders do. I think good

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leaders have to come out of themselves a little bit, right? And and uh and and

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maybe courts of review are a very good example where you could just be so

20:44
settled on the the pages in front of you and look and forget about the impact,

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right? And our job regardless of where we're sitting is, you know, to apply the law to the facts and to achieve a just

20:56
result. I think sometimes that's lost on people. And I think sometimes I think

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good leaders realize the impact they're making on those within their sphere of

21:08
influence and bad leaders are are inward focus on you know what is this doing for

21:14
me? When I hear that I think through you have seen so many cases even if you

Handling "Tough" Cases

21:19
didn't take all of them so many have come across your desk. Are there any that stand out to you as just really

21:25
tough cases that you're able to talk about that it was just uh really hard to deal with and as a leader you have to

21:31
step up and make some really hard decisions? Yeah. Not not to talk about a specific case, but

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um it's bannered about so much today, right? It be in political circles. Oh,

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you know, this is contrary to the rule of law. This is unconstitutional. Whatever.

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You know, your your your integrity is tested when you have

21:56
to apply the law and come out with a result different than you would want,

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right? I mean, that's when your integrity is tested. So, those are the ones that made made were very difficult

22:09
cases because if it was up if it was up to Bob Thomas, I'd rather this goes another way. But under the law, under

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the law and uh I have to go this particular way. So yeah, those were

22:23
tough cases. We had um we had things that were very gratifying to me when uh

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it wasn't a case, but when I was chief justice from '05 to08, there was a parental notification bill that was

22:37
dormant for 11 years because of the Supreme Court parental notification of abortion.

22:43
And I I don't know that people really should necessarily have looked at it as an abortion issue. Notification to

22:50
parents. I mean, they have to be notified uh if if their kids are getting an aspirin at school, but in Illinois and

22:58
now again in Illinois, parents don't have to be notified if their child's having an abortion. So when I was chief

23:04
justice, I became aware through different circles that the um uh

23:10
parental notification bill was on hold and it had been on hold hold for 11

23:16
years because the Supreme Court had not put in appellet procedures. So for

23:21
example, a girl comes and say I can't tell my dad. My dad would beat me or whatever. there had to be some type of

23:27
appellet procedure if the if the child did not notify the parent for some

23:34
reason. Well, the the court was mixed, Democrat, Republican, and unanimously,

23:40
you know, we came up with the procedures and everybody agreed and it became law. Um, and that was very gratifying to me

23:47
to see regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, you could look at the issue and come up with something. Now,

23:53
again, that's gone. uh in Illinois, but uh when I was there, that was one moment

23:59
where I thought um you know, this the court did the right thing and set aside

24:04
politics. It's interesting because you talk about sometimes you had to make decisions that you didn't agree with

Disagreements on Supreme Court Cases

24:10
based on the law and and also in that story, everyone agreed to at least hear

24:15
the case. How often did it happen that everyone agreed to hear the case and potentially have the same outcome or was

24:22
there still disagreements of how to interpret the law pretty often? Yeah, I you know they they did a

24:28
study one time. I I think the majority of the cases were unanimous. Um however

24:35
there there was still a the ones that you remember are the ones where there were dissents and um and sometimes

24:42
there's a silent descent, right? you basically somebody comes out with an opinion and you say unless you change

24:48
that here's what I'm going to say and right and no one wants to be embarrassed so you know sometimes there's a silent

24:54
descent and it becomes a unanimous opinion that wasn't at first I still think there majority are unanimous uh

25:01
but again there's there's a pretty high percentage where there's disagreement

Built To Handle Pressure

25:07
wow it's interesting because in let's say your first career there was so much

25:12
pressure from fans and just your teammates and all of that. Your second career, there's so much pressure from

25:18
the whole state potentially looking at you for decisions. It's almost like you were built to handle pressure. Do you do

25:24
you feel the pressure the same as everyone else? No, I I actually have said that before that I uh and I think

25:31
it was one of the times I was running actually that uh you know, I've had 80,000 people boo me. I'm you not going

25:37
to be too upset if one attorney turns around, he's disappointed with me, right? So I I think that there football

25:45
did impact you know how I looked at the judiciary and I think from the standpoint something we touched on

25:51
earlier and again on servant leadership and whether you're thinking outside of yourself or inwardly you know there are

25:58
judges that you know think they're special and don't realize that people are holding the door open and laughing

26:05
at their jokes because they have a robot right it's not that they're so special and I had been on the front page page of

26:11
the newspaper, the Tribune, for winning and losing games, right? So, I think that as a result of that, I I had a

26:19
career that certainly there'd be a lot more public focus on uh my football

26:26
career than anything I did in the judiciary. So, I think from that standpoint, it it really helped not to

26:32
take yourself take the job seriously, but not take yourself too seriously.

Different Stages of Life

26:37
as people think through uh you you had this great first career, this great second career. How how do you think

26:44
people should think about different stages of their life and if they're still called to do the same thing or if

26:50
they should think about doing something totally different like you? Yeah. I again um we touched upon this. I mean I

26:57
I handle it with prayer. I mean, I'm I'm I don't know that uh at least somebody

27:03
in my personality type is is cut out for total retirement. Um I've uh I I

27:11
practice law uh now and I kid around say I want to find out what I'm going to do

27:17
when I grow up. Um and so I I think about all right Lord if you have something else for me where uh you know

27:24
at this stage of life you know you don't want to spend as much time and travel and effort that you did earlier in life

27:32
but if there's a place where u he would have me where I could uh use some of the

27:39
past experiences of my life and um I've done quite a bit of speaking as well and

27:45
plan to do some of that but Um, yeah. I think certain personalities I'm just not

27:50
the type to, you know, play golf six times a week and go home, you know. Yeah. As where you are now today, you

Approach to Watching Football

27:59
clearly watch football. Um, are you as into it as you were then, just in a totally different way? Is it hands off?

28:07
How do you watch a football game? Boy, I'm I I'm laughing because I I had vowed

28:13
never to go to a a Super Bowl unless I was in it. And one time I I did go to a

28:21
Super Bowl bowl game with my wife and another couple. And um and I my my wife

28:27
said, "Where are you going?" This was like halftime. I said, "Well, I'm going to the bathroom." She goes, "It's halftime." And I said, "Well, yeah,

28:35
that's why I'm going now. I wanted to see the game." And she goes, "You obviously," she said, "you're you're

28:41
used to locker rooms with your own bathrooms." And she said, "It's not how it is. You're going to go out there.

28:46
There's like 50,000 people going to the bathroom." So, I didn't make a terrific fan, at least early on when I played.

28:53
Uh, we do have season tickets to Notre Dame. Um, so we're really into the Notre

28:59
Dame games. Certainly also still follow the Bears. um was at uh Virginia

29:05
Macsky's wake yesterday and uh and what a great lady, 102 years old. I had the

29:12
opportunity to uh give my condolences to George and to Pat and to Brian, you

29:18
know, the sons uh and the daughters as well, but I knew the sons that were were there. So, the Bears, you know, that's

29:26
still a big part of my life after having spent 10 years there. So, I watch them.

29:31
Um, but as I said, you can only go to two so many things. So, we're at Notre Dame games every Saturday. Do you focus

Focus On The Kickers or The Game?

29:38
more on the game itself or focus a lot on the kickers? Yeah, both. Um, it's

29:43
funny you'd ask that because at Notre Dame, we have seats right behind the Notre Dame bench, but the irony is that

29:48
the kicking net is there. It's a first world problem, Chris, because when they're on the 20 yardd line, that

29:54
kicking net is in the way. I mean, when you stand up, it's not, but we're in the first row. So I, you know, I even asked

30:01
some people, can you, you know, I said, I I know kicking nets. I mean, they're going to go up three times a game. Can

30:06
they put it down until they have to use it? But yeah, I focus on the kickers. I I watch them where probably others don't

30:14
when they come out before the game and at halftime. Uh, our seats have been very interesting because to watch the

30:20
dynamic of the coaching and different players because we're right, like I said, right behind the bench is a lot of

30:26
fun. Kind of the game within the game. But I think I'm pretty much a student of the whole game and and enjoy it. Um, but

30:33
yeah, kickers are still And kickers today, I mean, they're they're just awesome. I mean, they're I I don't know

30:38
what they're feeding them, but they're the best they've ever been. Wow. Same thing on on the judge side. How close do

Following Court Cases

30:46
you follow different bills that are getting put in front of court? Um, you

30:52
know, I'll look at cases. I've become more of a casual observer than obviously

30:58
when I was there and had to look at any everything. I'll look at cases if if they may affect a case that I've worked

31:04
on or work on as a consultant or that type of thing. I do get calls from people though. I got one yesterday, you

31:11
know, on a bill that uh that was going forward and some somebody had an issue

31:18
with it. So, I think it and obviously I wasn't in the legislature, right? We we we determined often times whether they

31:25
were constit there was a constitutional problem or not. Uh I don't have much say

31:30
over whether they pass them or not, but but yeah, occasionally I'll get asked to take a look at something. Do you have

Counseling/Coaching Kickers

31:36
kickers calling you as well for tips all the time? No. Well, uh, but the again back to Notre Dame, the the the special

31:43
teams coach actually had a camp I wasn't able to attend, but had a camp where he invited, you know, um, uh, high school

31:51
kickers to a kicking camp and had the Notre Dame kickers there, but also had Notre Dame kickers and punters from the

31:58
past as counselors. So, uh, I guess there's still some value. For a short period of time, some years ago now, I

32:05
was a kicking coach at Wheaten College. Um, wow. Yeah. And, uh, and that was

32:11
good because when I played, you know, for 12 years, there was never they only keep one kicker. So, there there really

32:18
weren't many kickers that I liked that I competed against. So, it helped me to like other kickers, even though I was

32:24
their coach rather than uh competing against them. What a what a privilege to

32:29
be able to have you as their coach, one of the all-time greats. That's just amazing. That's nice of you to say. I want to ask you 10 rapid fire questions

10-Rapid-Fire Questions

32:37
where you just say the first thing that comes to mind. There's no right or wrong. Okay. Who's the first person you

32:43
think of when I say servant leadership? Uh John Sullivan. You don't even know the Who is that? I have to ask that too

32:49
now. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's passed away. He was a dentist that ran a church in

32:54
South Holland. The church is still there. He started this ministry, restoration ministries that they they

33:01
decided to take the city of Harvey for God. Uh and they they would go and minister to drug addicts and uh

33:09
eventually these a number of these drug addicts would come to church and they had like a place called Harvey House

33:14
where they um would learn the gospel and go into their own neighborhoods and

33:20
evangelize. They started boxing clubs. um until the day he died, he was

33:26
involved in that. And uh so that was the first name that came to my mind, John Sullivan. That's fascinating. All right.

33:32
Five words that most describe you. Uh, I think humorous,

33:39
um, emotional, uh,

33:46
loving. This is hyphenated, family oriented, and,

33:52
uh, learning. Still learning. Great. Favorite author or book? Well, the

33:58
favorite book is the Bible. Okay. Um, for sure. Favorite

34:03
author? Boy, that's good. Uh, because I've read him recently and I give this

34:10
book out a lot, I'd say Tim Keller. Oh, yeah. Favorite movie.

34:16
Favorite movie? Man, I've watched so many now. I'm watching because I have more time. I'm watching the They're

34:22
They're all these old movies. I'm trying to think. We'll have

34:28
to come back to that one. I was half expecting that Mark Wahberg Philadelphia Eagles like kicker movie. Have you seen

34:34
that? No, I haven't seen that. Oh, there's a there's a movie where he becomes a kicker. I thought you might see that. Yeah. All right. Favorite

34:41
food? Just about anything Italian. Okay. Favorite thing to do in your free time?

34:47
Uh free time? I I do like uh to golf and

34:52
be with my wife. Okay. What's a surprising fact about you?

34:57
Surprising fact that um that I'm first generation Italian, right? with the name

35:04
Thomas. Yeah, that is surprising. Yeah. Where's your favorite place you've been?

35:09
Uh, Positano, Italy. Right off the heels of that. Yeah. Where is somewhere you

35:14
want to go that you have not been? Uh, Paris.

35:20
And finally, what's the best advice you've ever gotten? Trust in the Lord.

35:25
Great advice. Well, thank you for being on the podcast and letting people hear some of your story and sharing some of

Closing

35:32
your wisdom with our audience. Oh, thank you, Chris. It's been great. Pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episode

35:38
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment

35:45
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35:50
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