00:00:00
I want to be crystal clear. What I

00:00:02
dreamed this my story would be and what

00:00:05
my story was are two different things.

00:00:14
Today on the servant leadership podcast,

00:00:16
we welcome Brad Formsma. Brad is the

00:00:18
founder and CEO of the giving company

00:00:20
and author of I like giving. He spent

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years helping leaders, families, and

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organizations move generosity from an

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idea to a lifestyle. Brad's work centers

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on the seven ways of living generously

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through our thoughts, words, money,

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time, attention, belongings, and

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influence. His work today spans from

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corporate leadership to families and

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helps people see that generosity is not

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just limited to money. Join us as we

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talk about generosity as a leadership

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discipline and how giving is essential

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to becoming a better servant leader.

00:00:52
Brad, thank you for joining us on the

00:00:54
servant leadership podcast. So good to

00:00:57
be here, Chris.

00:00:58
When I first bumped into you, it's

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because you were speaking at a

00:01:02
conference in Florida. And when I saw

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your book title, I like giving, I

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immediately thought, who writes a book

00:01:10
called I Like Giving? And then I got to

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sit in the session and learn a ton from

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you. Literally pages of notes. How did

00:01:17
you get into this world of giving?

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Well, I mean, first of all, I think

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Donald Miller would hate the title

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because, you know, he's always about his

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story work

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approach, and I'm like, no, I uh it's

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really just uh birthed out of a giving

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story. Okay. So, but to answer your

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question,

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for me, uh my grandpa modeled the

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generous life to me when I was about 11

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years old. and mom came home and

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announced that we were going to go from

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three to five kids in the family. She

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was having twins. This is back in the

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day where they literally delivered one

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baby and then went to look for the

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other. I know a little graphic there,

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but I mean this is 1981. So think folks

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how things have progressed, but our

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house went from pretty normal three kid

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American house to five chaotic kid

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moments. And uh I started tagging along

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with my grandpa who really modeled this

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generous life for me.

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I mean starting a company called the

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generous company. Uh people probably

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come to you asking like what do you do

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and how do you do it? And I know you go

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around teaching about generosity. talk

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about when people approach you, what

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their first take is on even what you do

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and how radically different this is than

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typical.

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Sure. Well, I think it's important to

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kind of just step a little bit back uh

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for 18 plus years, I had a for-profit

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business in Michigan that continued to

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grow. It was a great business from an

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income standpoint. It wasn't so great on

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the liquidity side when I felt called to

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sell it. So, just to know, you know, I

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didn't just randomly pick up this idea.

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I like giving. Um, I'm I'm a

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faith-oriented guy. I was reading a book

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on the power and voice of the Holy

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Spirit. And really got this impression

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and this thought uh I'm going to use you

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to encourage people in their giving and

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that will bring greater hope and joy to

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to many. Um, and it will be based on

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this truth that it's more blessed to

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give than receive. that has to kind of

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set there uh for your listeners to say

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well that's 2005 when that happened and

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uh not long after that I ended up

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selling the business and um you know one

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thing led to another and we started into

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this uh generous life adventure

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uh you know for sure but you know to

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know me is to know six words

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entrepreneurial spirit life passion is

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giving and when I looked out there hi I

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um saw a huge lack of teaching from a

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biblical perspective on the truth that

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it's more blessed to give than receive.

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Now, let me clarify that. There's some

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wonderful organizations that do that,

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but it tended to be for people over 40

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with a lot of resources. And I never saw

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any of that when I read the verse. It

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was for everybody. So whether you had a

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little or a lot, you could play.

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And it wasn't also just related to

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money. You know, we all love to measure

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things, but there's so many other ways

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to be generous outside of our money.

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It's more difficult, but you you know,

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generous words, generous thoughts,

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generous time. That one you could

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probably measure a little closer, but

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generous influence, sharing your

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friendships, helping somebody else get

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to where they need to go. If it wasn't

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Tom Cole, our mutual friend, uh, and

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Mike Timus introducing me to New Kanan,

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you and I never would have met because I

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would have never been there doing a

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talk.

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Yeah.

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So, I really felt like as an

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entrepreneur,

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you, you know, you just do this. You

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solve a problem or you create something

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um that solves the problem is better way

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to say it. So, and or if something's

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broken, you fix it. Those are things you

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do as an entrepreneur. So, um I think I

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can go on, but I don't want to uh just

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run ahead of of what we do today and how

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we uh solve for uh the the

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lack of what I was noticing back in in

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Well, how do you solve for it? And I I

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would imagine exactly like what you

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said, people might look at you and

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think, well, you had a successful

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business before this and oh, all the

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people doing this have a lot of

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resources, but when you bring in these

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other components,

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uh, everyone has the ability to be

00:06:03
generous.

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Yeah. I mean, I want to be crystal

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clear. Uh, what I dreamed this my story

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would be and what my story was are two

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different things. So, I made great

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income uh in the years of my business,

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but it was a, you know, asset sale. I

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didn't walk away with 30 million bucks

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and thought, you know, let's go talk

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about generosity. That's a fun thing to

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do. So, it was a significant faith walk

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and one that I am so grateful I had the

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opportunity to live out. Uh although at

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the time um you know you might have sent

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me flowers if you saw the balance sheet.

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It wasn't pretty but we went through it

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and we pushed through it because God was

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with us. So today you know our mission

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is we exist to help people love God,

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love others and live generously. And so

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the organization I like giving works

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that out through a few of its

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initiatives. And I'll just pick one

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right now at generous family. We create

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world-class children's books that are

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written in a Dr. Seuss style that teach

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values that last based on a biblical

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principle.

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And so really geared towards that under

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10 audience, but they've c they catch

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and they're powerful. Jasper G is the

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first generosity giraffe and it's really

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a story based on me and my grandpa

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Chris. It's the book number one, Jasper

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G and the Methinking Madness. And so

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what we try to do is take language from

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a biblical perspective to give parents

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language to teach and train up their

00:07:45
kids in the way that they would go.

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Okay. So if you think about me thinking,

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what's the opposite of that? Being a

00:07:52
big-hearted giver. And Jasper starts out

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in the story being a methinker and he

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doesn't have a lot of friends and his

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life sucks.

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But later on, grandpa and him have a

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conversation and grandpa begins to help

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him understand that, you know, Jasper,

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maybe I know why your life and world is

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small

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because you're a meinker

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and you don't care about others at all.

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And so that is one of the ways then that

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we help a family and a child understand,

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I have a choice today. Am I going to be

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a me thinker or am I going to be a

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big-hearted giver? But we don't stop

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there. we roll right into book two,

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Ellie the elephant and the stinking

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thinking because generous thoughts is a

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huge thing. And so many of these things

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are woven in around the seven ways of

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living generously that we talk about um

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organizationally and what we teach from.

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So being generous with our words and our

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time and our attention and our money and

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our influence and our belongings and our

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thoughts of course. And so that way,

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back to where you were asking me

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earlier, we can wake up every day and

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play the generous life. And it doesn't

00:09:08
matter if we're worth 10 bucks, 10

00:09:10
million or 100 million and beyond

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because everybody can go in those areas.

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And so, and scriptures so clear on this,

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you know, uh, you know, be generous on

00:09:22
every occasion. Well, there you go. We

00:09:23
don't really have to go further than

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that. It can't always be a check or a

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piece of paper with a dead president's

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face on it.

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When you talk about and I love the kids

00:09:34
books and we're going to link to those

00:09:35
for those that are listening in the

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description so people can check them

00:09:38
out. But is there a way to get teaching

00:09:41
generosity wrong? You know, so a lot of

00:09:43
well-meaning parents might be listening

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to this thinking, "Oh, I love that. I

00:09:46
want to go buy the books and and I

00:09:49
should teach my kids to be generous." Do

00:09:50
you find that people sometimes teach

00:09:52
generosity poorly? Or is it like, hey,

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any generosity is good generosity?

00:10:00
I've never been asked that, but I always

00:10:02
think of grandpa saying you can't steer

00:10:04
a park car. And

00:10:06
it's like, okay, you know, do I miss? Do

00:10:09
I get it wrong? Am I giving um uh from,

00:10:13
you know, wanting to get something? Is

00:10:15
my motivation? Well, I can tell you

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this. If you don't do any giving, you're

00:10:20
going to steal all the joy from your

00:10:21
life because there's no chance to

00:10:23
produce it. And along the way, you can

00:10:26
do it. I I interviewed Bill Johnson the

00:10:28
other day at Bethl Church and he said,

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you know, giving with ex

00:10:33
expectation of something is buying.

00:10:39
And I thought, how often does that

00:10:41
happen in our giving? Even if we're

00:10:44
sophisticated givers where we give and

00:10:47
we're like, "But I want to make sure

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it's stewarded well, but I want to make

00:10:51
sure it's got that kingdom ROI." You

00:10:55
know, and you're like, "Okay, I mean,

00:10:57
all that stuff's good to think about and

00:10:58
all that, but where's the spirit of God

00:11:01
leading you to give?"

00:11:03
And I believe giving is a hard issue,

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and I think most people would agree with

00:11:07
that.

00:11:08
So, I would say start to start and be

00:11:12
very careful if you start reading your

00:11:14
kids and grandkids the generous kids

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books because they will mess with you.

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They're designed to do that and you

00:11:21
know, we're interested in getting it

00:11:23
into the family. And there there are

00:11:25
tens of thousands of families that have

00:11:27
these books in their homes and it's by

00:11:29
God's grace they're very popular because

00:11:32
kids are connecting with the characters

00:11:35
and the message.

00:11:37
I mean, Franny the Flamingo and the

00:11:40
amazing attention. I think attention is

00:11:43
one of the most generous things we can

00:11:45
give to somebody. And we're in a world

00:11:48
where

00:11:51
we got a lot of distractions, don't we,

00:11:53
Chris?

00:11:55
Quite a few. Uh it it's interesting

00:11:58
because and I was talking with my wife

00:12:00
about this actually uh so often people

00:12:03
are asked to give and to get involved in

00:12:05
things and sometimes uh I find maybe

00:12:09
it's just me but people give out of

00:12:11
obligation or guilt and then you brought

00:12:14
up a really interesting thing about

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where's the heart and the joy in giving.

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How do you help people wrestle with

00:12:20
those two things that are very real, I

00:12:22
think, at least in my life and probably

00:12:24
for others listening?

00:12:27
Well, I mean, I try to do things that

00:12:30
God wants me to do and follow his

00:12:32
principles and I miss all the time, but

00:12:34
he was he's clear on that one. Don't

00:12:36
give out of duty or compulsion

00:12:39
for God loves a cheerful giver. And I

00:12:42
think he works with a grumpy giver and

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he'll convict a no-giver. And I've been

00:12:48
all three of those. And I know I like

00:12:51
the cheerful one the best. Happy to tell

00:12:53
you a story around that. But I think

00:12:55
it's it's important to ask yourself as

00:12:58
you're flying through the air or driving

00:13:00
down the road, where am I today? Am I a

00:13:03
cheerful giver? Am I a grumpy giver? Am

00:13:06
I a no-giver?

00:13:08
And there's no judgment in the question,

00:13:10
but play the movie forward. As my friend

00:13:13
Henry Cloud says, where where's this

00:13:15
going to land for you?

00:13:18
And uh if you're into scarcity, you

00:13:21
know, you're going to stay grumpy or

00:13:22
move into the no-giver category.

00:13:25
If you're into abundance, biblical

00:13:28
abundance, you're you're going to be

00:13:30
cheerful most of the time. And I always

00:13:33
say this, if you're feeling

00:13:38
manipulated or under a compulsion to

00:13:41
give,

00:13:43
why don't you use that fourletter word

00:13:46
pray

00:13:47
for a day or two and see what changes

00:13:53
cuz one of my good friends said one

00:13:55
time, God doesn't have Fridays. You

00:13:58
know, there's a lot of urgency in our

00:13:59
world. Oh, we need you. We got the

00:14:01
matching giver. We got the Well, you

00:14:03
know, if your heart isn't peaceful

00:14:06
and he's telling me in the New Testament

00:14:08
the only place what he loves,

00:14:12
I love a cheerful giver. Then I think

00:14:14
I'm going to go with that versus the

00:14:16
urgency of some person, situation,

00:14:18
organization

00:14:21
today. That's how I'm thinking.

00:14:23
That's so good. It's interesting and I

00:14:25
want to come back to that. But one thing

00:14:27
that I've seen you do is go into

00:14:28
corporations and help them think about

00:14:32
how generosity is actually uh good

00:14:35
stewardship in their business, not just

00:14:37
on the charitable side too. How do you

00:14:39
work with corporations and what does

00:14:41
that look like helping a business think

00:14:43
about generosity which might be

00:14:46
absolutely reverse like to what people

00:14:48
are taught or think about?

00:14:50
Yeah. Well, I think after uh 15 years of

00:14:54
working, living, studying um the

00:14:58
generous life, uh we started to have uh

00:15:01
some of our friends that have

00:15:03
significant companies say, "We love the

00:15:05
spirit of the seven ways. We love the

00:15:08
approach that it's you something you get

00:15:10
invited into. You get to live this way.

00:15:12
You get a choice. And um we love how you

00:15:17
continue to show us that the seven ways

00:15:20
are so applicable in a forprofit

00:15:24
corporation. So um one of our friends

00:15:29
has a has a very nice amazing large

00:15:32
business that makes delicious double

00:15:35
doubles and we'll leave it at there. And

00:15:37
so we work together with them to create

00:15:41
what we call the generous leaders

00:15:43
program. And so it's a it's like a

00:15:46
three-hour workshop, if you will. And it

00:15:49
can take a team of 12 or 1,200. And we

00:15:53
work through the seven ways and how to

00:15:56
implement those into the different areas

00:15:59
of the business

00:16:01
and how it allows people to grow as a

00:16:04
leader. Because if you're thinking about

00:16:07
the seven ways and you're looking at

00:16:09
different people on your team at

00:16:11
different times, they need some of those

00:16:13
different seven ways. Somebody may have

00:16:15
just had a tragic event and they have a

00:16:18
medical bill. Well, generous thoughts

00:16:21
aren't going to kind of get it done, but

00:16:23
a thousand bucks in an envelope

00:16:26
on the desk that we're thinking of you

00:16:27
and we're pulling for you is going to do

00:16:29
it.

00:16:31
Somebody else might just need a

00:16:32
affirming word because they just got

00:16:34
chewed out by a client or somebody some

00:16:37
client stopped them or there was an

00:16:39
issue with the product and they were on

00:16:40
the other end and just got hammered

00:16:43
and they need somebody to just tell them

00:16:45
it's going to be okay and and sit in

00:16:48
that with them. And everybody has

00:16:51
different strengths of those seven ways.

00:16:53
I mean some are easier for others. So,

00:16:55
we really walk the team through a fun

00:16:58
way for them to learn things about each

00:17:00
other that they never knew coming in. I

00:17:02
think one of the most powerful things of

00:17:04
the generous leaders program is that we

00:17:08
get people to talk about things that are

00:17:10
not related to their core business. We

00:17:12
get them to talk about heart and learn

00:17:16
things about each other. I mean, I'll

00:17:18
never forget Chris one day we put people

00:17:21
in groups at different times over this

00:17:22
three-hour workshop and then I'll sit in

00:17:26
on some of the conversations and one of

00:17:29
the questions was early in your life,

00:17:32
was there a giving event that happened

00:17:34
to you that you just haven't been able

00:17:36
to forget? It marked you.

00:17:38
And one guy was telling how um his dad

00:17:43
died when he was almost 16. And so his

00:17:47
uncle

00:17:49
uh was a farmer down the road was was in

00:17:52
charge of looking after him. And uh he

00:17:56
turned 16 and the uncle came and picked

00:17:59
him up and they went to a used truck

00:18:01
dealership in their rural city. And uh

00:18:07
kid goes, "Hey, what are we doing?" And

00:18:09
he said, 'Well, you know, I want to I

00:18:10
want to look around at trucks

00:18:13
and I want you to help me pick one out.

00:18:15
What would you pick? You know, you kind

00:18:17
of know where this is going. And they

00:18:19
picked out a $3,000 used pickup truck.

00:18:23
And this guy said, "My uncle reached

00:18:26
into one pocket and pulled out a wad of

00:18:28
cash and reached into another and pulled

00:18:31
out another wad and it it was it was

00:18:34
enough to buy the truck for me."

00:18:36
Wow.

00:18:37
And everybody around that table was just

00:18:41
lost it and this guy started to lose it.

00:18:45
But what we learned in that moment,

00:18:47
Chris, was so powerful. None of those

00:18:50
co-workers knew he had lost his dad at

00:18:56
None of them knew he had that level of

00:18:58
heartbreak.

00:18:59
And none of them knew how special of a

00:19:02
relationship he had with his uncle. So

00:19:05
now fast forward, you're in a work

00:19:07
environment. Maybe you get into a little

00:19:09
tussle. You're not getting along or

00:19:11
you're misunderstanding. Somebody's got

00:19:13
grumpy pants on that day. And you go

00:19:16
maybe, just maybe, I can give them the

00:19:19
benefit of the doubt. Wonder what's

00:19:21
going on in in their world. They're a

00:19:24
person. They lost their dad at 16. M

00:19:28
and so I think for us we just find

00:19:31
companies that tend they come to us you

00:19:34
know that tend to be about servant

00:19:36
orientation and wanting to do for others

00:19:39
and so not being cute In-N-Out Burger is

00:19:42
the answer but you know it it it was it

00:19:45
was this and she's got a glass door

00:19:46
rating over 99%. So that was really a

00:19:50
nod to us cuz we co-developed the

00:19:52
program with them. We made a lot of

00:19:54
tweaks and adjustments because it was

00:19:57
one of those things where you often will

00:20:00
go into a company and speak for 45

00:20:02
minutes and set the table and then come

00:20:06
back in the in the coming months or year

00:20:08
and and do that longer workshop.

00:20:11
And it was just so evident to us that

00:20:15
there was a willingness to never rest.

00:20:18
We want to continue to get better. We

00:20:20
want our associates to have smiles on

00:20:22
their face. We want to show them

00:20:24
something bigger is in play.

00:20:27
But here's the mic drop moment.

00:20:30
You take the seven ways home. You learn

00:20:32
them at work, but you take them home. We

00:20:35
had one guy, this is so great. The CEO

00:20:38
called in and he goes, "You're not going

00:20:41
to believe this." He said, "You were

00:20:43
here. We did the program. A week later,

00:20:45
one of my guys from the warehouse comes

00:20:48
in." He says, "Boss, can I talk to you?"

00:20:50
Yeah. What? Yeah. What's going on,

00:20:52
buddy? He goes, "Well, my wife

00:20:55
yesterday,

00:20:57
she said,

00:20:59
"What's going on at work?" She got all

00:21:01
serious.

00:21:03
What do you What are What's going on?

00:21:05
And he's like, "What do you mean,

00:21:07
honey?" And she's like, "For the last

00:21:09
week, you have said nice things to me.

00:21:13
They were direct. They were specific.

00:21:15
And I know you meant them, but what do

00:21:17
they what's going on? Is there is there

00:21:19
a woman there? And he said, "No, this

00:21:22
guy came in and they were teaching the

00:21:24
seven ways." And one of them was

00:21:25
generous words. And the guy said, you

00:21:28
know, our wives like clear compliments

00:21:31
and when it's not connected to anything

00:21:34
and you know, different times of the

00:21:35
day, right? And and

00:21:38
you know, this lady thought her husband

00:21:40
was have having an affair. And so once

00:21:43
he said, "Hey, no, this is a training

00:21:45
program we went through as a company."

00:21:46
She goes, "Don't ever quit that

00:21:48
company."

00:21:51
Oh, that's awesome.

00:21:53
Yeah.

00:21:53
I mean, we talk a lot about leadership

00:21:56
on this podcast and and servant

00:21:58
leadership specifically. Uh giving is

00:22:01
something that doesn't always come up

00:22:03
when we talk about servant leadership,

00:22:05
but it there's a a significant

00:22:07
integration between being a great

00:22:09
servant leader and being somebody who

00:22:11
joyfully gives. talk about how you see

00:22:14
giving making somebody a better servant

00:22:17
leader.

00:22:20
Well, the greatest leader was Jesus and

00:22:24
the greatest servant leader was Jesus.

00:22:26
So then you say, well, you know, what

00:22:29
was he interested in? Well, he would he

00:22:31
was interested in prayer. He was

00:22:33
interested in giving and fasting.

00:22:36
And you know, I'm I'm better at two of

00:22:38
the three of those things. You can put

00:22:40
that together. But I think those are

00:22:43
kind of guides for me. The more you live

00:22:46
out a prayerful life and a giving life.

00:22:51
Um, and I do fast, but I think it's it's

00:22:54
that's something you get to work through

00:22:56
in your own heart. What is that look

00:22:58
like for you? But the whole point was to

00:23:01
get you centered on him and others.

00:23:05
And in the meantime, you benefit from it

00:23:07
from a health perspective. You just have

00:23:09
less stress. you have a better life. You

00:23:11
know, I I was diagnosed with a horrible

00:23:14
disease 12 years ago and I was looking

00:23:16
up at the

00:23:18
documents the other day and I remember

00:23:20
thinking, gosh, this is the doctor that

00:23:22
told me, well, you know, you you do a

00:23:25
lot of good in the world and so you're

00:23:28
probably going to live longer because it

00:23:31
actually is good for your body. So he

00:23:34
was a long way from my faith perspective

00:23:37
but even he understood

00:23:39
that when we give

00:23:42
uh it's a better the best version of

00:23:44
ourselves and it's actually good for our

00:23:47
health.

00:23:49
It's good for our emotions. It's good

00:23:51
for our relationships.

00:23:53
It's it good. It's good. It's why I like

00:23:57
giving.

00:23:58
Well, it's interesting obviously writing

00:24:00
a book called I like giving. You like to

00:24:02
give. Are there instances where you

00:24:05
think through I just had this thing

00:24:08
happen, whatever it is, and I wish I

00:24:10
would have been generous in a different

00:24:12
way or I wish I would have been generous

00:24:13
or I wish I would have given and I

00:24:15
didn't or is it just now that you've

00:24:18
been so ingrained in this, it just comes

00:24:20
so natural to you?

00:24:23
Oh, I'm I I I I miss less, but I still

00:24:26
miss and uh I don't really overthink it.

00:24:30
Uh there was a there's a lot of pressure

00:24:32
early on in in the giving journey

00:24:35
because the

00:24:37
the number one enemy

00:24:39
does not like giving because it's a

00:24:41
great expression of living out like

00:24:45
the way we were created to be. So he's

00:24:48
not interested in that so much. So, what

00:24:52
I have to be aware of is that

00:24:56
I believe when we give, we're most like

00:25:00
Jesus.

00:25:01
And yet, I'm a flawed person. So, I

00:25:04
think that

00:25:06
I'm not interested in spending time

00:25:08
worrying if I got it wrong,

00:25:11
worrying if I gave too much, too little.

00:25:15
I'm I'm just not um I I try to be

00:25:19
sensitive to what my spirit and heart

00:25:21
are

00:25:23
feeling and um big stuff I do in

00:25:27
agreement with my wife

00:25:29
and so you know then you can trust your

00:25:32
gut and your gal and Jesus, right? So

00:25:35
yeah, I think giving giving together is

00:25:38
is good. Um, it's also a big big

00:25:41
challenge area for me because I like to

00:25:43
move and I'm an activator and my wife's

00:25:46
a processor. So, gas pedal brake kind of

00:25:50
situation going on for me.

00:25:53
Uh, so we have limits. I we don't give

00:25:57
over a certain amount. I should say I

00:25:59
don't give over a certain amount most of

00:26:02
the time uh without her and I being in

00:26:05
agreement. So, and that was because I

00:26:07
was doing things that were at her she

00:26:10
was not brought up with this. So, very

00:26:13
unfamiliar to her to to be pretty

00:26:17
unreasonable in giving. I I would think

00:26:20
that that's a really hard thing for a

00:26:22
husband and wife, regardless of if it's

00:26:23
to do with charitable generosity, time

00:26:26
generosity,

00:26:28
work generosity, whatever, to get on the

00:26:31
same page. How do you recommend that

00:26:33
couples move towards getting on the same

00:26:36
page in their generosity or giving

00:26:38
journey?

00:26:40
Well, like I said before, you know, I

00:26:42
host the Wow Factor podcast and every uh

00:26:45
episode I asked them their wow, their

00:26:47
word of wisdom, and one time a guy said,

00:26:50
"You got to you got to start to start."

00:26:52
I think that's really where it's at. Um,

00:26:56
you've got to start the conversation and

00:26:58
have some trust and it's going to be

00:27:00
clunky. Um, but this is a big deal and

00:27:05
it's so worth it. Um,

00:27:08
but it's it's it's just it's God's sense

00:27:12
of humor, too. I I don't I don't get it.

00:27:14
I mean, she just wants to pray about it

00:27:16
for two days, and I'm like, this is a

00:27:17
no-brainer. I mean, fall down, bump your

00:27:19
head, let's give.

00:27:21
But, you know, that's how it is. So, we

00:27:23
had a limit for a while at 500 bucks and

00:27:27
anything over 500, you know, we'd talk

00:27:29
about and and discuss. And so, one day

00:27:31
she was balancing the checkbook and she

00:27:33
said, "How come there's so many $450

00:27:36
checks written?"

00:27:39
I said, "Well, I didn't want to wait."

00:27:42
So, uh I don't recommend that one. We've

00:27:45
we've I'm I'm actually getting ready

00:27:47
this this week to propose a a higher

00:27:50
limit

00:27:52
because I you know I got to give her the

00:27:54
inflation line. Chris,

00:27:57
how do you even approach a

Spousal Giving Dynamics

27:59
like that? Because I do feel like a lot

28:01
of people

28:03
are on different pages sometimes with

28:05
their spouse when it comes to giving.

28:07
Especially because the things that

28:08
people approach you for are people who

28:11
know you in a certain context and the

28:12
people who approach her probably know

28:14
her in a totally different context and

28:16
and you might both be passionate about

28:18
different things.

Finding Common Passions

28:20
Well, I think you said the word

28:21
passionate. So that's when you start to

28:23
actually have conversations and learn

28:25
things about each other. So maybe for

28:27
me, I'm interested in one area of impact

28:31
and my wife might be more interested in

28:33
a mercy ministryoriented

28:36
kind of thing. Well, I might not be

28:39
naturally predisposed to mercy. I'm

28:41
like, got a problem? Build a bridge. Get

28:43
over it. Right? That's kind of hard.

28:45
That's cold. That's just not so great.

28:47
But what's happened for her and I is as

28:51
we've both brought our different

28:54
passions to the table, we have begun to

28:58
give in both of those areas. And so

29:01
where your treasure is your heart is. So

29:03
as we have given into mercy related

29:06
ministries,

Changing Hearts Through Giving

29:08
that's changed my heart and made me less

29:12
of a jerk and saying things like, "Build

29:14
a bridge, get over it."

29:16
On the other hand, she's come over and

29:18
started to give and her heart started to

29:21
adjust towards areas I was passionate

29:23
about.

29:24
So, this isn't an overnight thing. And I

29:27
just think you just work at it and and

29:29
and talk about it and um build trust

29:33
around that. I I mean I I I

29:36
like to be a creative giver. I get that

29:39
label a lot. I I I don't need it

29:41
publicly, but I I like to dream up

29:44
really creative things that that I think

29:48
are thoughtful for people.

Creative Giving Challenges

29:50
And um we were just saying the other

29:53
day, the hardest person for me to get

29:56
things for is my wife cuz we're so close

29:58
and we kind of have what we need. you

30:00
know, you're all squared away and so

30:01
you're just like, I'm I'm going to be

30:04
working next year to and I think I got a

30:07
doozy for Christmas, so I'm in good

30:09
shape there. But I I think I'm going to

30:12
keep working on, you know, showing that

30:14
more intentional, unique, creative,

30:17
thoughtfulness to her. Um, and you know,

30:21
we we also pulled our kids into it very

30:23
early. Very very very powerful concept.

Teaching Kids Generosity

30:27
not always with the amounts when they

30:29
were in their low teens, but always

30:30
painting the picture of we've got an an

30:32
emergency giving fund, right? Our buddy

30:35
Ramsay always says emergency fund. We

30:38
just put giving to it. So, we told our

30:40
kids, "Hey, we got X in this fund. If

30:43
you see a need, let's talk about it and

30:45
work through it." That's how you train

30:46
it.

30:48
And then you do it together and you you

30:50
you say, "Well, what did you

30:51
experience?" "Oh, I think they were not

30:53
grateful for it." Yep, you're right.

30:55
They they they they told us we didn't

30:57
have to do that. And we're like, "Yeah,

30:59
we kind of know that." Uh we know we

31:02
didn't have to give, but we say these

31:03
dumb things in our society, don't we?

Challenges of Receiving

31:06
Are you sure?

31:08
Oh, you don't need to do that.

31:12
Oh, yeah. If I do, if I take that, then

31:14
I'm going to have to do something for

31:16
somebody else. What? Where? Who said

31:19
that?

31:21
Where's that in the Bible?

31:23
So,

31:24
why is it so hard for people to receive

31:26
a gift sometimes?

31:27
Uh, I got a chapter in my book on that.

31:29
Receiving is brutal. I mean, look at the

31:31
culture we're in. We're a self-made

31:36
um it's humbling to receive.

Learning to Receive

31:40
I know when I first sold our business

31:42
and things were a little tighter and a

31:45
friend let me go to his beautiful house

31:46
in Florida and they left the car at the

31:48
airport. I think the first three days of

31:51
that week, I I I was just frustrated.

31:55
I should be able to do all this on my

31:57
own. I should be the one doing this. I'm

32:00
in the guy's house. I see his picture,

32:02
him and his wife, and I'm just like,

32:04
gosh,

32:06
you know, and and then it dawned on me

32:09
that they were getting extreme joy by

32:12
sharing their home and car and I was

32:15
over here pouting, making it about me.

Embracing Generosity

32:19
And that that began to change things.

32:24
Wow. where where when somebody gives

32:27
something to me, I'm even looking at a

32:30
gift that somebody gave me and I'm like,

32:33
they thought of me and thought that was

32:35
unique

32:37
and that means a lot.

32:41
And how I'm going to use that gift, I'm

32:43
not sure,

32:45
but

32:46
I I want to know somebody thought of me.

Gratitude for Gifts

32:51
And so if somebody's giving to me, you

32:54
know, I think I I think I need to have

32:56
the posture of gratitude, you know,

33:00
well, and I think one thing that I've

33:03
started to come to realize over the

33:04
years for myself is that I used to

33:08
think, don't buy me a card because I'd

33:11
rather just have the $3 or whatever.

33:13
Like, I don't want the card, you know,

33:14
just send the money or give it to

33:16
somebody else. But it is robbing

33:18
somebody of giving the joy that they had

33:20
the fun in giving. And so I think I've

33:22
changed my perspective on gifts that I

33:24
think are silly or dumb or that mean

33:27
nothing to me. Sometimes somebody giving

33:29
me a gift isn't about me getting the

33:31
gift, right? And it's helping reshape

33:33
that perspective. Okay, Brad, I want to

Rapidfire Questions

33:36
finish with 10 rapidfire questions where

33:38
you just say the first thing that comes

33:40
to mind and there is no wrong answer.

33:43
Fun. Who's the first person you think of

33:46
when I say servant leadership?

33:48
Lindsay Snyder.

33:50
Five words that most describe you or

33:53
maybe it's six based on

33:54
Yes, it is. Thank you. Good catch.

33:56
Entrepreneurial spirit. Life passion is

33:58
giving.

Favorites and Surprises

34:00
Favorite book or author?

34:04
My favorite author is Mark Batterson.

34:07
That's awesome. Uh favorite food?

34:11
I like beef tenderloin.

34:14
Favorite thing to do in your free time?

34:17
I like HIT workouts.

34:19
This might fit that or might be

34:20
different. What's a surprising fact

34:21
about you?

34:22
I like watches.

34:25
Oh, what kind?

34:27
I'll leave that as a mystery.

34:28
Lots of watches. I like it. Favorite

34:30
place you've been?

Travel and Advice

34:33
Uh, Charmel.

34:36
I gota look in the uh bottom part of the

34:39
Sinai Peninsula.

34:41
Wow. I I know you travel a lot, but is

34:43
there anywhere in the world you want to

34:44
go that you have not been to yet?

34:46
No.

34:48
I love that. Uh, all right. What's the

34:50
best advice you've ever received?

34:53
You make a living by what you get, but

34:55
you make a life by what you give.

34:58
That's good. All right. And finally, we

Importance of Servant Leadership

35:01
talk a lot about servant leadership on

35:02
this podcast. Why do you think it's

35:04
important for people to become better

35:06
servant leaders? I think it's the

35:09
ultimate model of leadership

35:12
with an asterisk next to it. It doesn't

35:15
mean you're soft. It doesn't mean you

35:17
don't make hard decisions and it doesn't

35:20
mean that you're a pushover. And that

35:21
might be soft, but just doubling down on

35:24
servant leaders are strong. They're

35:27
thoughtful. They're caring. They're

35:29
decisive.

35:30
And they also have a deep sense that

35:34
it's way beyond them.

Closing Remarks

35:37
That's so good. Well, Brad, thank you uh

35:41
so much first for being on the podcast

35:42
and thank you for just the content

35:44
you're putting out. I'm excited for

35:45
people to find more about the I like

35:48
giving stuff, but also about the kids

35:50
stuff that you're doing.

35:51
Yes, generous family generousfamily.com.

35:54
You can go there and uh you can also

35:56
check out our love wins hats. They are

35:59
going crazy. We have 316 on the side of

36:01
them. It's the uh those 20somes are are

36:06
tearing it up on our team and but the

36:08
thing is is that parents are loving the

36:10
hats too. They're stylish and everyone's

36:13
prayed over Chris. Every hat that goes

36:15
out it's prayed over and what's powerful

36:17
about that is people the prayer is that

36:20
people will talk about God and talk

36:21
about giving and it's happening like

36:23
crazy like thousands and thousands and

36:26
thousands and thousands of hats later

36:28
and we just started that this year. So,

36:31
uh, love gives pretty cool, uh,

36:33
initiative of our overall organization,

36:37
the nonprofit I like giving. Well, we'll

36:39
make sure that we link to those hats,

36:41
too. And also, I said this before we

36:44
talked, but I think it's really cool how

36:47
your son has gotten involved as well.

36:49
And I think people should go check out

36:51
what your son is doing, too, because

36:52
he's kind of following in your

36:54
footsteps, and it's really fascinating

36:55
to watch just the father-son team

36:57
tearing this up.

36:59
he would be a uh powerful guest. He's an

37:02
incredible serv servant leader. I think

37:04
at 24 he manages 17 people and um really

37:11
uh worked all through college, ran, you

37:14
know, fairly significant part of our

37:16
budget uh out of a dorm room. So uh I

37:19
think it I think he's Drew Formsma on

37:22
Instagram. That is and then on LinkedIn

37:24
is that Andrew Formsma? Is that right?

37:27
I'm a little light on social. He's going

37:29
to be like, "Dad, you should kind of

37:30
know. Let's go."

37:32
Well, we might throw a link to that in

37:34
too so people can follow him, too. But

37:36
thank you, Brad, for your time and your

37:37
generosity of being with us.

Podcast Outro

37:39
You bet, Chris. It's an honor. Thank you

37:41
for listening to this episode of the

37:43
Servant Leadership Podcast. If you

37:46
enjoyed what you heard, please give it a

37:48
thumbs up and leave a comment below.

37:50
Don't forget to subscribe and hit the

37:53
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37:55
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37:57
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37:58
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38:00
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