Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast we’re joined by Daniel Kwak. Daniel and his brother immigrated from Korea as pastor’s kids, grew up in poverty in Chicago, and launched their first business as teenagers. When Daniel realized he needed a long-term career, he moved into real estate and built an eight-figure portfolio in his 20s. His journey forced him to confront what actually drives a leader beneath the surface. Join us as we talk about fear, shame, success, and why you cannot become a true servant leader while holding on to your own agenda.

Episode Transcript

Opening Quote

0:00
There’s this great quote that says, “If

0:01
you want to know a man’s true character,

0:04
see him when he has everything or when

0:05
he has nothing.”

Introducing Daniel Kwak

0:13
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

0:15
we’re joined by Daniel Quac. Daniel and

0:17
his brother immigrated from Korea as

0:19
pastor’s kids, grew up in poverty in

0:21
Chicago, and launched their first

0:23
business as teenagers. When Daniel

0:25
realized he needed a long-term career,

0:27
he moved into real estate and built an

0:29
8-figure portfolio in his 20s. His

0:31
journey forced him to confront what

0:33
actually drives a leader beneath the

0:34
surface. Join us as we talk about fear,

0:37
shame, success, and why you cannot

0:40
become a true servant leader while

0:41
holding on to your own agenda.

Welcome Daniel Kwak

0:45
Daniel, thank you for being on the

0:47
servant leadership podcast.

0:48
Yeah, thanks for having me, man.

0:49
I am so excited. We’ve been friends for

0:51
a long time.

Daniel’s Early Life

0:52
That’s right. and and I’m thankful for

0:54
you as a friend, but it’s been fun to

0:56
watch your professional journey as well.

0:58
Uh, talk about how you first got into

1:01
real estate and a little bit about your

1:03
background.

1:04
Yeah, so my family and I, we immigrated

1:06
here in the late ‘9s, which, you know,

1:09
obviously like Chicago in the late ’90s

1:11
was like an amazing time. So, I was

1:13
like, “Wow, America’s great.” Like, this

1:14
is awesome. Everyone’s so happy and

1:16
like, “Wow, wow, these are like black

1:18
people. I had never seen these in Korea,

1:19
you know.” Um, so you know, we grew up I

1:22
mean extremely extremely poor, right? So

1:24
my dad was a pastor. We got called to

1:26
pastor here a church in Chicago and you

1:29
know like our first apartment is like

1:31
you turn the lights on and the

1:32
cockroaches spread to the outsides of

1:33
the room and like I loved going to

1:36
school cuz it meant I got a meal, right?

1:37
And so it was definitely a a rough

1:40
upbringing from whether it be financial,

1:43
whatever. But I I got to witness to

1:46
people who are my parents who literally

1:48
could care less about any of that

1:50
because they were doing what God was

1:53
asking them to do.

Daniel’s Family Influence

1:54
You know, I was incredibly lucky. Like I

1:57
consider my childhood to be a really

1:59
blessed one because something that was

2:01
modeled to me, I realized as an adult,

2:04
wow, that never happens. Like that never

2:06
ever happens. So, um I I saw two people

2:09
who are extreme like whether you’re a

2:11
believer in Christ or not, I think

2:14
everybody would at least respect, oh

2:16
yeah, they do to the extreme highest

2:19
level what they actually believe.

2:21
Wow.

2:22
Like like they actually put their lives

2:23
on the line like move to a country where

2:24
they don’t know the language, right? All

2:26
this stuff and they have kids by the way

2:28
and and they’re really doing it right.

2:30
So um that was really the foundation of

2:35
what it meant for not only for me to be

2:37
a leader but for me to be an

2:38
entrepreneur for me to be be a husband a

2:40
father now for 4 and a half months right

2:43
like that was kind of the first thing

2:45
that I learned as a five six year old so

2:48
that led to and my brother got me in

2:50
entrepreneurship right so I was 18 my

2:52
plan was to go to ISU get a degree in

2:54
teaching coach basketball right and be a

2:56
youth pastor on the weekends right like

2:58
that was my plan making probably $42,000

3:01
a year, which again, there’s nothing

3:02
wrong with that. But yeah, my brother

3:03
got me in entrepreneurship. Our first

3:05
business, fun fact, was a DJ company.

3:08
So, we would like DJ high school

3:10
parties, college parties, proms,

3:11
homecomings, weddings, you name it. And

3:13
then liquidated that. And at 19, that’s

3:16
why I got started in real estate because

3:17
I was like, “Wow, we’re waking up at

3:19
like 4:30 a.m. and getting home at like

3:21
2:00

3:22
and and doing these wedding gigs and

3:24
it’s just super tiring.” So, I got to

3:26
find we got to find a different way. And

3:27
what I told myself was, you know, I’m

3:29
19. I have no no wife, no kids. Like I

3:32
have no real responsibility. Might as

3:34
well take the risk now. And that’s

3:37
little did I know that God was going to

3:39
use that to really just transform my

3:42
heart, my mind, my soul, right? So that

3:44
was that was the start, man. That was

3:46
the start of the journey.

Transition to Real Estate

3:47
Wow. I I mean, it’s interesting because

3:50
it was a tough journey growing up. Uh

3:52
especially to look at what you’ve been

3:54
able to accomplish now.

3:56
Yeah. On the flip side, that move from

3:58
being a DJ to getting into real estate,

4:01
how did that conversation even play out

4:03
with you and Sam and what did that look

4:05
like?

4:06
Yeah. So, like I remember one of the

4:08
nights we got back like we were driving,

4:10
right? And we had a wedding that was

4:11
like 4 and 1/2 hours away. I don’t know

4:13
why we said yes, you know, but you know,

4:15
like we’re young. We just, you know, we

4:17
wanted to make money, the money, right?

4:19
So, like we’re driving back and it’s

4:21
like 1:30 a.m. and we had just ate

4:24
something at IHOP, you know, or

4:25
something like that, right? And and we

4:27
were like kind of talking. We were like,

4:29
“Can you picture us doing this when, you

4:32
know, when we’re in our 40s and we have,

4:34
you know, we have wives and we have kids

4:37
and like, do you see yourself doing

4:38
this?” And and you know, Sam and I both

4:41
kind of just said, “No, like we don’t.

4:44
We don’t want to, right?” And so we were

4:47
like, well, what can we do to like work

4:48
smart? And at the time, my former youth

4:51
pastor was like, you guys should get

4:53
into real estate investing. And we were

4:54
like, what the heck is that? And we went

4:57
we ended up going to this seminar,

4:59
right? And it was one of those things

4:59
where like they sell you courses, right?

5:02
Coaching. And there was a a multi-level

5:03
marketing element to it. And so, of

5:06
course, we got recruited, right?

5:07
Everybody that’s like the right of

5:08
passage, by the way, for any

5:09
entrepreneur. It’s like you have to go

5:11
to some guy’s home or like some office

5:13
where they sell you the dream, right?

5:15
and you have some guy that’s like I

5:17
drive a a Corvette, right? And people

5:19
are like, good for you. So, like we went

5:20
to that and and we were like, you know

5:22
what, look, like at the end of the day,

5:23
like we’re young. What’s the worst that

5:25
can happen, right? And kind of like what

5:26
I said earlier, let’s take the risk now.

5:28
And clearly these people know something

5:30
that we don’t. So, we were like

5:33
open-minded cuz we kind of had to be.

5:35
So, that’s kind of what started the

5:36
journey of, hey, like you tell a couple

5:38
kids who are sick and tired of waking up

5:40
at 4:30 a.m. while their friends are

5:42
still out at bars and you’re you’re

5:45
telling me that I could collect quote

5:46
unquote passive income from owning real

5:48
estate. All right. Like, I’ll I’ll learn

5:51
about that. Like, sounds good to me, you

5:53
know.

Early Real Estate Success

5:54
So, you dominated when you went there. I

5:56
mean, you guys rose up the ranks pretty

5:57
quickly, right?

5:59
Yeah, kind of. Sort of. I was like Caleb

6:02
Williams. It took me a while, you know,

6:03
but eventually I hit my hit my stride

6:05
without the pale, you know, the paint

6:06
and nails of course, right? But

6:08
so you’re you’re in this thing and at

6:09
some point you realize like, oh, this is

6:12
like you talked about multi-level

6:13
marketing, but like it wasn’t for you

6:15
long term. It was more like, hey, this

6:17
is still a system that I’m I’m in

6:19
someone else’s system

6:20
and you wanted to move to your own

6:21
thing.

6:22
That’s right.

6:22
What did that jump look like? And that

6:25
feels like a big jump for somebody that

6:27
was as young as you doing it.

6:29
Yeah. Yeah. I was like very naive and

6:31
it’s interesting cuz like every and you

6:34
talk to a lot of these guys right that

6:35
are like nine figure founder CEO

6:37
sometimes 10 11 figures and a lot of

6:40
them say sometimes the common

6:41
denominator of early success is nativity

6:45
like if I think every if you told every

6:47
entrepreneur on planet earth like hey

6:49
this is everything that you’re going to

6:50
go through we won’t do it like we

6:53
wouldn’t do it at all we would be like

6:54
yeah I’m getting a job like forget that

6:57
but so the first 3 years, I I like

7:00
really struggled. I was that guy that

7:02
like I knew all the answers to the

7:04
questions that the instructor would say

7:07
about about real estate investing, about

7:09
economics, but like I had no deals.

7:12
Like I was making zero money. There was

7:13
guys in the room that were doing like

7:15
half a million a year or a million a

7:17
year doing real estate deals and they

7:20
knew less than me. And I was like, “What

7:23
the heck is going on?” So like whenever

7:24
I’m frustrated, I always go to my my

7:26
heavenly father, right? Right? I always

7:28
go to God and I’m like, “Hey man, like

7:29
what’s going on?” Right? Very similar to

7:30
how, you know, obviously your sons like

7:32
if they if they struggle with something,

7:33
they go, “Hey, Dad, I need help with

7:34
this.” And you as a unconditional loving

7:36
father will go, “Yeah, like let’s, you

7:38
know, let’s do it.” So I go to God and I

7:40
I I’m pretty upset. I’m like, “Hey, like

7:42
I’ve been doing this real estate thing

7:43
for three three and a half years. I’ve

7:44
gotten no traction. I feel like I’m

7:46
spinning my wheels. Like what do you

7:49
want me to know and what do you want me

7:50
to do?” Which I later found out is the

7:53
biblical translation word for obedience,

7:55
which is shama. Shama literally just is

7:57
the Hebrew word to it means to uh listen

8:00
and to respond. It means to hear and

8:02
respond. And funny enough, that word is

8:04
used when Jesus talks about obedience in

8:06
the context of us being like disciples,

8:09
right? And by the way, I only bring up

8:10
Jesus cuz he’s my model. He’s your model

8:13
for the ultimate servant leader.

8:14
Yeah.

Learning from Jesus

8:15
Right. And so, so I unbeknownst to me, I

8:18
I did the shama, right, which is to hear

8:20
and respond. So I asked God and he takes

8:22
me to John chapter 13. And this is the

8:25
chapter where like there’s one verse

8:28
that always always sticks to me, right?

8:29
And it and it says that Jesus had knew

8:32
Jesus knew that the father had put

8:34
everything under his authority and that

8:36
he was from the father and was returning

8:37
to the father.

8:38
And there’s this great quote that says

8:40
if you want to know a man’s true

8:42
character, see him when he has

8:44
everything or when he has nothing. M and

8:46
so for me like I get to see when I read

8:50
that I get to see our Lord and Savior

8:53
Jesus at his peak you know like and he’s

8:56
always at his peak right but this is the

8:57
time where he realizes that the father

8:59
had put everything under his authority

9:00
so it’s a good case study to see what

9:02
the character of the my true servant

9:03
leader is like

9:05
and so the next verse it goes so like

9:08
cause and effect uh what he began to do

9:10
is remove his outer garments and he

9:12
began to fill a basin of water and began

9:14
to wash the feet of his disciples

9:16
And so in that moment, the spirit tells

9:19
me, “Your problem, Daniel, is that you

9:22
know a lot in your brain, but you refuse

9:25
and you will not wash the feet of the

9:27
people in every single room that you

9:28
walk in. And until you do that, you will

9:31
continue spinning your wheels.”

9:33
Wow.

9:33
And so that was like a turning point for

9:36
me. And that happened when I was like

9:37
22, 22 and a half. And so that that’s

9:41
exactly what I started doing. is so I

9:42
asked the spirit, okay, like what do you

9:44
want me to then do with that, right?

9:46
Because we have to do both. We have to

9:47
hear and we have to respond. I think a

9:50
lot of mistakes and and a lot of things

9:52
that us as Christians and even pastors

9:54
kind of get trapped in is we we put

9:56
intellectual understanding of God at the

9:58
pedestal. We don’t ever ever elevate

10:01
then to okay, God, Holy Spirit, what do

10:03
you want me to do with what you just

10:05
told me? And we see it in scripture all

10:07
the time. But yet people love hearing

10:08
theologically correct intellectual

10:10
sermons because we place understanding

10:12
and intelligence over over action,

10:15
right? Like you know I had a a good

10:17
friend of a good friend of ours, Glenn

10:18
Murray once told me that, hey, like I

10:20
think you know more about the Bible than

10:22
the Apostle Peter did.

10:24
And I I once took that as a compliment

10:26
and I very quickly found out that he was

10:27
actually kind of correcting me. And he

10:29
goes, hey, that’s great that you know

10:31
all that stuff, but what did Peter have

10:32
that you don’t have? Well, he had three

10:34
years of three years of intimacy with

10:35
Jesus. And he was the rock in which

10:38
Jesus built his church around. And you

10:40
know, I understand scripture really

10:41
really well, but like what am I actually

10:43
doing with that? So, so I asked the

10:44
spirit, okay, great. Like I you want me

10:46
to wash people’s feet? Well, I don’t

10:48
think he means for me to do that

10:48
literally unless he wants me to. So, I

10:52
started asking the Holy Spirit like,

10:53
“Okay, like really cool lesson. What do

10:56
you want me to do with it?” And so I

10:59
started going to these different like

11:01
networking events and meetups that were

11:02
I was a part of. And like I still

11:05
remember to this day I had this like

11:07
notepad and I had a pencil and I would

11:09
ask like hundreds of people, hey what is

11:12
the number one problem that you have in

11:14
your real estate business or like that

11:15
you have financial whatever it is. And

11:18
very quickly I learned there were two

11:20
different types of people. There were

11:21
people who like had these great deals

11:24
but didn’t have the money to like go

11:25
through with it. And then there were

11:27
like maybe 10 15% of people that were

11:29
like, “Yeah, I have money. Like I’m a

11:32
doctor making $750,000 a year as an

11:34
orthopedic surgeon, but I don’t have the

11:37
time to be able to do these deals, but I

11:38
still want the benefits. Like I want the

11:40
tax depreciation. I want the the cash

11:42
flow, the equity, you know, like I want

11:44
all that.” So what I started doing is I

11:46
started connecting these people

11:48
together. And so I would tell like the

11:50
doctors and like the high net worth

11:51
people like, “Hey, like I know a lot

11:53
about real estate. like I at least have

11:54
a lot of intelligence around it. I

11:55
haven’t done a deal, but what I can do

11:57
is I can look at these deals for you and

11:59
kind of tell you which ones that I would

12:01
do, which ones I wouldn’t do, right?

12:02
Like, and I can at the very least

12:04
connect you guys, right? And I’m not

12:06
expecting anything in return.

12:07
Because when Jesus washed our feet

12:10
and he does every single day, he doesn’t

12:11
expect anything in return, right? Cuz

12:13
his love and grace is unconditional,

12:14
which I think is step one to being an

12:16
amazing servant leader is to actually

12:18
not expect anything in return. Like

12:20
authentically not expect anything in

12:22
return. So I started doing that and

12:24
before you know it I had a couple guys

12:25
approach me and they were like hey like

12:26
do you want to be an equity partner you

12:29
know like we really appreciate you know

12:31
what you did for us like we had a hard

12:33
time raising money and you know we made

12:34
x amount because of the introduction

12:36
like do do you want to become an equity

12:37
partner and so I did and and I got to

12:41
learn the world of real estate investing

12:43
by by doing instead of just through a

12:46
podcast or through a book. Um, and I I

12:49
got mentored by a couple guys doing it.

12:51
And and before you know it, I think I

12:52
hit a 8 figureure real estate portfolio

12:54
by the time I was 23 24 years old.

12:56
Wow.

Facing Fear and Shame

12:57
And and it all started from God, I’m

13:00
frustrated. What do you want me to know?

13:01
What do you want me to do?

13:03
Right? So to to get to that, there has

13:05
to be a level of first and foremost

13:07
honesty, confession, right? Which at the

13:09
end of the day, confession just

13:10
translates to truthtelling, right? So we

13:13
have to be honest with God. There has to

13:14
be truthtelling. And then truthtelling,

13:17
you know, that transforms then into mind

13:19
change, right? What Romans talks about

13:21
metaninoia, mind change. And then

13:23
metaninoia turns into metamorphy, which

13:25
is form change.

13:27
So it it goes from confession,

13:28
metaninoia to metamorphi. And that I

13:31
didn’t know it at the time, but that’s

13:33
the process that I kind of went through

13:35
for for God to transform me in the way

13:37
that I approach business and how he

13:40
wants me to show up in every single

13:41
room.

Real Estate Explained

13:42
I love that. And I know you’re doing

13:45
some different stuff now, but explain

13:47
back then like when you say real estate

13:49
deals for people listening, what did

13:51
that even look like? Like what is a real

13:53
estate deal? And that is so broad.

13:55
Everyone thinks you can get rich doing

13:57
real estate, which you clearly can. Uh

13:59
but at the same time, it’s what does

14:01
that look like?

14:02
Yeah. So, like whenever whenever like we

14:04
talk about real estate investing,

14:05
especially for those folks that are like

14:07
40 and older, they always pictured like

14:09
this guy named Tom Vu who like was this

14:12
like old Asian dude and he would do

14:13
these like infomercials on a yacht,

14:15
right? Like I think Family Guy did a

14:17
parody one time, but like um it it means

14:20
like every everything from like fix and

14:22
flips, right, which is like you buy a

14:23
house that’s, you know, run down, you

14:25
fix it up, and you sell it at a markup

14:27
and you make net profit. It also means

14:29
what we do more so of which is like

14:31
multifamily acquisition. So we’ll buy

14:33
apartments that are maybe like eight

14:34
units. There’s you know 330 units or 444

14:38
unit building like we’re working on

14:39
right now. Um like there’s a 54 unit

14:41
building that we’re working on right now

14:42
too in Iowa. And so we’re, you know, it

14:44
it means to pretty much acquire those

14:47
those assets and then those assets give

14:49
a variety of different benefits.

14:51
Everything from, you know, cash flow to

14:54
um appreciation to tax benefits, right?

14:57
And and what we did is we’ll then bring

14:59
on investors who want to receive

15:01
benefits from those deals, but then

15:03
obviously they don’t want to do the work

15:04
or they don’t have the time to do any of

15:06
those things.

Helping Others in Real Estate

15:06
Mhm. It’s so interesting because you

15:08
talk about the company that you were

15:10
working at and where you learned a lot

15:11
of good good information from and their

15:14
model was really like helping people get

15:16
into real estate, right? And you found

15:19
success on your own outside of that as

15:21
well, but then later you started to help

15:23
people get into a little bit yourself.

15:25
What was that journey like doing your

15:27
first couple deals? Like it would have

15:28
been a little nerve-wracking, I’m

15:30
guessing.

15:30
No, I was scared. That was terrifying.

15:32
And what did it look like to realize

15:33
like I like what I’m doing and I want to

15:36
help other people do it?

15:37
Yeah. So the first thing I had to

15:40
address was the fear,

15:42
right? Cuz like it doesn’t matter if

15:43
you’re an entrepreneur or not. Like fear

15:45
will always be kind of the greatest

15:46
enemy to being a servant leader, right?

15:48
Because fear will always always like I

15:50
have a a good friend guy named Jamie

15:52
Winship who talks about how fear will

15:54
always drive us to do two things which

15:56
is self-protect and self-promote, right?

15:58
It will always always drive us to one of

16:00
to one of those things or both. But

16:02
abiding in Jesus and having a

16:04
relationship with Jesus will always lead

16:06
us to be others focused,

16:07
right? Cuz it says in scripture, perfect

16:09
loves drives out fear, right? So for me,

16:11
I had to address what my fear was. Like

16:13
why am I so afraid to do this deal? Like

16:16
I’ I’ve studied this thing like a

16:18
billion times. Like why am I so afraid?

16:21
And it wasn’t the fear of failure. It

16:23
was what other people would think of me

16:25
if I failed, which is what most people,

16:28
by the way, when they say they have a

16:29
fear of failure, it’s never the fear of

16:31
failure. Like, we fail all the time.

16:33
Like, you and I could play golf, right?

16:35
And we fail. Like, you see me shank a

16:37
drive or, you know what I mean? And and

16:39
we don’t necessarily feel that. What we

16:40
do fear are people laughing at us when

16:42
that happens. So, what people actually

16:46
fear is shame, right? Cuz that’s what

16:48
shame is. It’s shame is not I didn’t do

16:51
anything bad. That’s guilt. shame is I

16:53
am bad and it’s validated by the people

16:56
pointing at me and going, “Oh my gosh,

16:58
you poor thing. Look, look what

17:00
happened. You tried starting this

17:01
business and you weren’t good enough.”

17:03
Right? And so like my like my big fear

17:06
in life, you know, is being a

17:07
disappointment. It’s not being good

17:09
enough. It’s not all these things. And

17:11
and what I’ve learned in the journey of

17:13
leadership is showing up in rooms where

17:16
I then act out of that fear will 1,000%

17:19
prevent me from being the others focused

17:22
servant oriented leader that obviously

17:26
Jesus wants me to be. M

17:27
so when I started getting rid of that

17:30
junk then I was like okay this real

17:33
estate stuff is actually not too

17:36
complicated like it’s not rocket science

17:39
you know to learn how to flip a property

17:41
or buy a building um there’s people

17:43
who’ve done it before so I I’ve often

17:46
times find that whenever I help people

17:48
like clients of mine scale a real estate

17:51
portfolio 90% of my work is okay like

17:54
let’s get what did your mom tell you

17:55
when you were seven years old that as a

17:58
48-year-old man that’s still with you.

18:02
And why? Like where did we learn, right?

18:04
Like it’s it’s it’s early as like

18:06
Genesis in the Bible where God’s like

18:08
telling Adam and Eve like who told you

18:09
you were naked? Who told you that you

18:11
were in shame? It wasn’t me. Okay, God,

18:14
it was the enemy. The enemy who is the

18:16
father of all lies, right? The the

18:18
master of deception. Okay, God, it was

18:20
that. So like that that is what for me

18:23
what allowed me to kind of get through

18:25
all the fear stuff. Like, by the way,

18:26
I’m not saying I’m perfect, right? I’m

18:28
only 31 years old. Like, I’m still

18:29
learning to navigate, you know, those

18:31
things even even today.

Starting a YouTube Channel

18:34
Wow. And when you went and brought other

18:36
people into this, at some point, you and

18:38
Sam started a YouTube channel, right?

18:41
And that would have been getting over

18:43
some level of fear. There would have

18:44
been strategy to it, but that would have

18:46
been a little nerve-wracking putting

18:47
yourself out there.

18:48
How did you get into that?

18:49
Yeah. So, so Sam started it like I had

18:51
no part. I was like, I just want to

18:53
focus on doing deals. Like I like me at

18:55
the core like I I’m the guy that like

18:57
loves being in the corner and like no

18:59
one knows who I am but I’m secretly

19:00
beating everyone. Like I I’m that guy

19:03
and my brother is not that guy. Like my

19:05
brother loves I he’s our CMO, right? So

19:07
like he loves marketing, he loves

19:09
promotion, he loves all that thing. And

19:11
so he started the YouTube channel and um

19:13
he did one video literally titled how to

19:16
pay off your mortgage in 5 to seven

19:17
years. And it went viral. It got like

19:19
three and a half million views. And

19:21
that’s actually what led us to start one

19:23
of our companies called Accel

19:24
Accelerated Strategies where we we help

19:27
people pay off their mortgage. But yeah,

19:28
I mean like the first time I was in

19:29
front of a camera, I was like, “Ah, this

19:31
is like this is stupid.” Like like

19:34
people I’m not going to get any views.

19:36
Like I should be going out and doing

19:36
deals. But like nowadays that’s that’s

19:39
the way you do it. Like the way you do

19:41
it is by marketing yourself. And

19:43
like you don’t even have to be the best

19:45
at what you do. as long as you’re the

19:47
most wellknown like

19:48
you will be the the best monetized.

Expanding Business Ventures

19:51
Well, and so you guys still are doing a

19:52
lot of real estate stuff in terms of

19:54
invest investing in properties. You have

19:56
the accelerated strategy stuff. That

19:58
feels like a big shift to invest in

20:00
multifamily

20:02
complexes and then to help people paying

20:03
off their m mortgage. Was that a big

20:06
jump? Was that just natural? How did

20:08
that even happen? Yeah, I mean it it

20:10
kind of like you know in the beginning

20:12
of Forest Gump when you see like the

20:13
leaf, you know, and it’s just like

20:15
there’s piano music, but the leaf is

20:17
like blowing everywhere and it kind of

20:19
just goes where the wind goes and it’s

20:20
like a representation of, you know, Tom

20:22
Hanks character. Like that’s kind of

20:23
what it felt like for for Sam and I.

20:27
And that would actually be the

20:29
encouragement that I would have for

20:30
every single listener listening to this

20:32
podcast is if if you’re and I only speak

20:35
to like myself as a believer, right? But

20:37
I have this belief that if you are truly

20:40
a believer and you’re an entrepreneur

20:42
and you want to be a servant leader,

20:44
whether you’re a teacher, I don’t care

20:46
if you’re a pastor, I don’t care if

20:47
you’re a CEO of a Fortune 100 company,

20:51
we are called, and it was modeled to us

20:53
through Christ, we are called to be like

20:56
that leaf

20:57
where we are actually dead to our own

21:00
ambitions and desires and we only care

21:01
about what God wants us to do. And so in

21:04
many ways like Sam and I over the last

21:07
like 10 12 years like God’s kind of

21:09
taken us here and he’s like I want you

21:10
to do this and I want you to do that and

21:12
he’s kind of taken us and he’s like he

21:13
was the wind that’s pushing the leaf.

21:15
Like he’s kind of

21:17
brought us and brought us

Opportunities and Signs

21:20
or given a lot of like signs to kind of

Business Decisions and Peace

21:23
go okay like that’s that’s what I want

21:25
you to do. And there’s been many like I

21:27
could sit here and share story after

21:28
story how like the thing that I had

21:32
peace about in business was the thing

21:33
that every advisor and like consultant

21:36
was telling us to not do but for some

21:39
reason like I have so much peace like

21:41
with that and we ended up doing it and

21:45
as I’ve learned recently the outcome

21:47
doesn’t matter

Servant Leadership Philosophy

21:49
because to be like again I have this

21:51
belief that if you want to be a true

21:53
servant leader you cannot be

21:55
outcomebased. You can’t you can’t

21:59
because the second there is an outcome

22:01
then there is your own selfish desire

22:04
and ambition and and soon after that

22:07
people become pawns

22:09
to what you want to accomplish and and

22:11
we’ve done it we’ve done it differently

Business Success and Failures

22:14
right and and I’m not saying that to pat

22:16
ourselves on the back but um there is an

22:18
element where like yeah like us being

22:20
the leaf and that’s been really really

22:22
helpful and it’s been a journey

22:24
sometimes the outcome was not what we

22:25
anticipated I think it’s opposite of

22:27
what’s taught in like war in business

22:29
school

22:30
or like any business school where

22:31
they’re like you have to like take life

22:33
by the throat and get it get what you

22:35
want. And I think to be a servant leader

22:36
I think I think that there’s there’s a

22:38
difference right there’s a difference in

22:40
that. So it was it was a hard transition

22:43
but also a very peaceful one if that

22:45
makes sense. Well, and you guys have

22:47
gone into starting a lot of businesses.

22:50
Some of them have been amazingly

22:53
successful and people look at them and

22:54
they’re like, “Wow.” I think people also

22:56
don’t know a lot of the worldly outcomes

22:58
of some of them have been not good.

Dealing with Failure

23:00
Right. And there’s wins and losses.

23:03
You talk a little bit about finding

23:04
peace and doing things just feeling like

23:06
this is what you were called to do.

23:08
But how do you deal with it when the

23:10
worldly outcomes and the people affected

23:13
when things fail? like those are real

23:15
world outcomes that you have to care

23:17
about to some extent. How do you deal

23:19
with all that?

Servant Leadership Focus

23:20
Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, you’re and

23:21
you’re absolutely right. Like there has

23:23
to be like I I believe and we talked

23:25
about this kind of earlier in their

23:26
episode where like if you are a true

23:28
servant leader, you are going to be

23:30
others focused,

23:31
right? Like when we do abide in Christ

23:32
and we learn to receive like his grace

23:34
and his love, that will in turn spill

23:36
over to other people,

23:38
right? So I think a lot of the

23:40
differences in servant leadership are

23:42
when things hit the fan, right? There’s

23:44
people who focus on others first and

23:47
whether or not they’re okay and there’s

23:48
people who are like am I okay?

23:50
Mhm.

23:51
Right. And then I’ll focus on other

23:53
people to then feed into the image that

23:55
I am a selfless individual.

Real Estate Deal Story

23:58
Right? And like we see it in

23:59
organizations, we see it in churches.

24:01
Like we see it everywhere, you know? And

24:03
it’s kind of sad, but like it’s also

24:05
very true,

24:06
you know? So like the last I mean this

24:09
year this year God God took me to a

24:11
whole another deeper level with like

24:14
what it means to actually like die to

24:15
myself and like I know I told you this

24:17
one story with a real estate deal that I

24:19
was doing that was like it was a pretty

24:22
massive real estate deal and um we were

24:25
we were going to buy I think like 9% of

24:27
the total market share of multif family

24:29
buildings for this one like really

24:31
well-known college town and everything

24:34
we did on our end was Right. And long

24:38
story short, the guy that we were doing

24:40
business with was not a great guy. Like

24:41
you could Google his name, you’ll see

24:43
like hundreds and thousands of people

24:44
that are like calling this guy scum of

24:46
the earth. Like he’s terrible. He’s

24:47
awful. Like all these things.

24:49
And uh at one point in the story, uh he

24:52
threatens to sue me, right? Like he

24:55
threatens to sue me. He he like

24:57
badmouths me. All these different

24:58
things. And the spirit calls for me to

25:02
just like not respond, right? And not

25:06
respond at all. And what he actually

25:07
asked me to do was to actually help him

25:11
and like actually help him make money.

25:13
And and the story ends with him walking

25:15
away with like a check for $9 million.

25:18
And

Reflection on God’s Lessons

25:20
and at the end of the story, I’m like

25:22
incredibly infuriated with Jesus. I’m

25:24
like, what in the world? Like I’m the

25:27
only person that actually loved

25:29
everybody. I’m the only good person in

25:32
the story. Like the broker is walking

25:33
away with multiple figure multiple six

25:36
figure commission. Like the guy that um

25:39
I ended up giving a giving the deal to

25:41
like he’s going to make like 11 million

25:43
over the next how many years. The guy

25:45
that is threatening to sue me like he

25:47
walked away with $9 million check. And

25:50
he like there’s this moment where I’m

25:52
like pissed at God for 2 weeks and he

25:55
sits me down and I’m I’m in the car by

25:58
myself and it’s like 9:00 p.m. right? He

26:00
sits me down and he goes, “Well, you

26:02
you’re the one that told me that you

26:04
want to do business my way. Like you

26:06
asked me, help me to be a CEO the way

26:08
you would be a CEO.” And he goes, “What

26:11
do you think being a CEO my way?” Like

26:13
what do you think being an entrepreneur

26:15
my way means? Do you think it means to

26:17
make a lot of money or do you think it’s

26:19
me calling you to do things that are

26:21
uncomfortable like loving your enemies

26:23
in the midst of them spitting in your

26:25
face and threatening to sue you? Like

26:27
what do what do you think being a Jesus

26:30
servant leader oriented individual

26:33
means?

Parable of the Prodigal Son

26:34
Right? So, you know, it’s like one of

26:36
those moments where it’s like I know

26:37
he’s right, but I’m still mad at him.

26:39
You know, like I’m still very much mad

26:41
at God. And so another like two weeks

26:43
goes by and he he shares with me uh he

26:46
has me read the parable of the prodical

26:48
son,

26:49
right? And I I mean I’ve read the story,

26:52
man, like a thousand times, right? Like

26:53
my dad was a pastor. He’s got a double

26:55
doctorate and biblical stuff. Like I

26:57
read the Bible I don’t know like 15 20

26:59
times over by the time I was 18. And so

27:02
I like and I’m kind of just, you know,

27:04
like when you’re like I’m sure your sons

27:05
do this where you tell them to do

27:07
something and they just kind of do it

27:08
reluctantly.

27:10
I like end up listening to the story. I

27:12
read the story and we all know the

27:14
story, but for those of you guys that

27:15
don’t, right, there’s, you know, there’s

27:16
this really wealthy guy. He has two

27:18
sons. The younger son’s like, “Hey, I

27:20
want my inheritance early,” which is a

27:21
huge spit in the face in that culture.

27:23
He goes off, squanders it with

27:25
prostitutes and partying and all this

27:27
stuff. And then he comes back and then

27:29
when he comes back, the father’s like

27:30
super happy to see him. He hugs him and

27:33
then like, you know, he runs to him,

27:34
which in that culture is like shameful

27:36
for an older man to do. And but he

27:38
doesn’t care about that cuz he loves his

27:40
son so much that he’s willing to put

27:41
himself under public scrutiny to show

27:43
how much he loves the son that actually

27:45
backstabs him. And then the older son

27:47
gets pissed cuz like hey dude I’ve been

27:49
here doing everything that you’re

27:50
supposed to do. Why are you throwing a

27:52
party for him and killing the fattened

27:55
calf for this son of yours that like

27:58
doesn’t deserve all this? And so he so

28:02
you know God points out to me that I am

28:04
the older son in that story that I am

28:08
angry that I did everything the right

28:11
way and yet I’m not being rewarded. So

28:15
here’s what’s really interesting to me

28:16
about the story and I think a lot of

28:19
people think that that story is about

28:20
unconditional love and grace which it

28:22
is. But I think they missed the

28:23
secondary lesson which is that if you

28:25
pay really close attention to that

28:27
story, either son actually has zero

28:30
interest in relationship with the

28:32
father. Like they have zero interest.

28:34
They actually care more about his

28:35
possessions than they do care about him.

28:37
And so he goes, you actually care more

28:40
about the deal and the money you were

28:42
going to make. And you like then you

28:44
actually cared about doing what I asked

28:45
you to do. Mhm.

28:46
And so he goes, “Until you actually

28:48
desire what I want you to do in

28:50
situations over the outcome that you’re

28:53
going to receive,

Lessons on True Leadership

28:56
you can’t do anything that I’m asking

28:58
you to do on behalf of myself and my

29:00
kingdom.” So it’s like John 13 or John

29:03
15, the vine and the branches. Unless

29:04
you are a part of me, unless you are a

29:06
part like the branches attached to the

29:08
vine, then you apart from me, you will

29:10
do nothing. So it’s like that,

29:13
right? So like you have a lot of people

29:15
that fake the fruit but they’re not

29:17
actually attached to the vine and that’s

29:20
what right like we jump to the the

29:22
transformation. We jump to the

29:23
metamorphi part without the metaninoia

29:26
and without the confession part because

29:26
that’s what looks good on the outside.

29:30
So like that’s and that story by the way

29:32
happened to me like uh five six months

29:34
ago, right? Like I remember like the

29:36
week after I sat down with you at

29:38
Starbucks and told you the story, right?

29:39
Like you know it was like none of this

29:41
around, right? But like that’s what

29:43
happened. So God was like, “Yeah, you

29:45
were you were the second son and you’re

29:47
like these other three people that made

29:49
all this money from this deal, who by

29:50
the way don’t know who I am. Like

29:52
they’re the second son

29:54
and and but both of you guys actually

29:55
have zero interest. You only pretend

29:57
like you do because it makes you look

29:59
good.

30:00
But you actually cared more. That’s why

30:02
you’re angry. Where do you think anger

30:03
comes from? It comes from fear. And my

30:06
fear was I’m not good enough unless I do

30:07
this deal, make all this money, and tell

30:09
people that I did this and and talk

30:11
about it on podcast. Well, I’m not good

30:12
enough. So, I need this outcome to

30:14
happen so that I can feel good about

30:16
myself so that I could relinquish the

30:17
fear versus me actually going to God and

30:20
going, “Help me to take this away

30:22
because this fear is what’s going to

30:24
prevent me from actually being part of

30:25
you. This this fear is what separates me

30:27
and you. I I need you to be the one to

30:30
take this away and then and then fill me

30:32
with your truth so that I can walk into

30:35
places completely open-handed, not

30:38
expecting anything in return, being a

30:39
true servant and doing what you actually

30:42
want me to do regardless of outcome.

Redefining Blessings

30:44
Wow.

30:45
And that’s really good.

30:46
And that’s kind of what’s messed up,

30:47
isn’t it? Like we consider in Western

30:49
Christianity, we consider blessing to be

30:51
making $1.2 million a year with a big

30:53
house and a fancy car. And I tell people

30:56
all the time, look, like the people who

30:57
want that for you are is the enemy.

31:00
But yet we consider that a blessing.

31:02
Like whenever we hear Christians and

31:04
conferences tell stories about like, oh

31:06
my gosh, it was really really bad and

31:07
then it was really really good. Like we

31:09
consider the really really good part to

31:11
be the blessing. And what I have learned

31:13
this year is no no no. If you look at

31:15
things from God’s perspective, the

31:17
crappy part is the blessing because

31:20
that’s the part where God transformed

31:22
us. That’s the part where we gained

31:24
kingdom equity versus earthly equity

31:27
or earthly riches. Like that was the

31:30
part like that crappy part was where we

31:32
died to ourselves,

31:34
right? And that’s sort of the part where

31:35
we had to like really lean into the Holy

31:38
Spirit. And you know like you have

31:40
pastors nowadays that are like here’s

31:42
three steps to be closer with God,

31:44
right? Like we love doing these formulas

31:47
and these, you know, three steps and

31:50
these outlines because at the end of the

31:52
day, we want the transformation, the the

31:54
metamorphy without the metaninoia and

31:57
the truth and the confession and the

31:58
repentance, right? But then when we look

32:01
God in the eye and and this is how we

32:03
define blessing, I think we’ve got it

32:04
backwards in Western Christianity,

32:06
right? Like I consider this year

32:08
although like revenue fell for most of

32:09
our portfolio companies like you know

32:12
and I’ll I’ll talk about that in a

32:13
moment but like like real estate deals I

32:15
lot like there’s been so many things

32:17
from a business standpoint that like

32:18
have gone really really terrible for us

32:20
this year but I I would I will consider

32:24
I told our leadership team this is the

32:25
best year of our business

32:27
because this is the year where our

32:29
leadership team died to our own desires

32:32
and ambitions and we actually put what

32:34
God has for us above of what we want in

32:37
terms of like external outcomes. And

32:39
we’ve actually learned to find peace and

32:41
abide in Jesus regardless of what our

32:44
revenue statement says, regardless of

32:46
what our P&L says. And so we’ve

32:49
completely flipped what it means to be

32:52
blessed

32:54
like versus making a lot of money, nice

32:56
car, nice, which is what again the enemy

32:58
wants for us because that is what allows

32:59
us to not need God anymore to oh man,

33:03
like we’re in a situation where we

33:05
actually need God.

33:06
We need him to show up and regardless of

33:09
what happens next month, uh we’re going

33:12
to enjoy peace.

33:14
We’re going to abide in him. And it’s

33:17
whatever God wants to do.

Encouragement for Strugglers

33:19
So when somebody’s listening to your

33:21
story, cuz this is just amazing and I

33:23
love your perspective, right? And we

33:25
talk about this a lot. And uh when

33:27
somebody’s listening to this and they’re

33:29
like, I I like Daniel’s perspective, but

33:33
at the same time, Daniel has a

33:36
successful business. He has money. He

33:40
has an awesome wife, kid. Like his life

33:43
is put together. It’s easy for him to

33:45
say that.

33:46
And somebody’s listening thinking, I

33:48
don’t have anything going right in life.

33:50
Like nothing has clicked. I have these

33:52
big passions, big desires that I feel

33:54
like are on my heart. What do you

33:56
encourage them with? Yeah. I tell them,

33:58
“Isn’t this great?”

34:01
Serious. Like, it’s awesome, right? Cuz

34:03
I mean, dude, there’s been times this

34:05
year where it’s like, if people ask me,

34:07
“What are your top three darkest times

34:09
of your life?” Like, two out of three of

34:10
them were this year. M

34:12
like we’ve had to like for the very

34:14
first time in organization we we had to

34:15
do a wave of layoffs cuz like we just

34:17
can’t afford to make payroll like at

34:19
this point. So like I like I get really

34:22
bummed out when like

34:24
I don’t have payroll like I don’t get my

34:27
paycheck. I get way more bummed out when

34:31
we have to like let people go.

34:33
Right. And to to that person that’s like

34:36
hey like nothing’s going my way. Like

34:38
nothing is going my way. Great.

34:41
Mhm.

34:42
Cuz one of the one of the scriptures

34:44
that I really dove into over the last

34:46
month and a half is Acts 20. So Paul is,

34:49
you know, he’s he’s leaving to go back

34:51
to Jerusalem by way of Macedonia, right?

34:54
And he’s leaving the uh the Ephesians

34:56
and there’s a group of elders that pray

35:00
for him and he’s praying also for

35:02
himself. And it becomes so clear these

35:03
group of elders are like, “Hey, you

35:04
can’t go.” And Paul’s like, “Why not?”

35:07
And they’re like, “Well, well, we we all

35:09
prayed and we prophesied and and you’re

35:11
actually going to the spirit was

35:13
revealing to Paul, hey, you’re going to

35:14
get shipwrecked and and you’re going to

35:16
be thrown in jail and you’re going to be

35:17
like all this stuff’s going to happen.”

35:19
And Paul Paul’s answer is so like

35:22
amazing, right? He goes, “Yeah, I know.

35:24
I know. Like I know I’m going to get

35:26
shipwrecked. I know I’m going to get

35:27
bitten by snakes. I know I’m going to be

35:29
thrown in prison. I know I’m all these

35:30
things.” But then the verse right next

35:32
to it, which I think is like 22, he

35:33
goes, “I consider my life worthless

35:37
outside of the calling that Christ Jesus

35:39
has for my life.”

35:41
So to those guys, I’m like, “Dude, this

35:43
is awesome because it means your life is

35:45
nothing outside of the calling that

35:48
Christ has for you.” Like, that’s great.

35:50
Mhm.

35:50
Like, and I’m I’m sitting here with you,

35:52
man, thankful that all it took for me to

35:55
learn that and all it took for God to

35:58
embed that lesson through my thick skull

36:01
was having to have revenue go down.

36:04
Mhm.

36:05
And us being like, “What the heck is

36:06
going on?” And it was a weird time, man.

36:08
Like, I hired one of my mentors who uh

36:10
if you know the company Topgolf.

36:12
So, my my mentor was the CEO of Topgolf

36:16
the first five years. He was the guy

36:17
that scaled Topgolf to what it is today.

36:19
M

36:19
and we hired him like on fulltime

36:22
executive team executive lead and he’s

36:24
like, “Yeah, I’m in my 60s. I’ve never

36:25
seen anything like this. You guys are

36:27
literally doing everything right

36:29
and for some unknown reason like you’re

36:31
right.” And like I’ve hired consultants

36:33
that are part of nine 10 figureure

36:35
companies

36:36
and there was a time this year where I

36:38
asked God, “Are you doing this on

36:39
purpose?” And he goes, “Yes, I am.”

36:42
Cuz cuz unless this happens, I cannot

36:45
transform you to be dead to yourself and

36:48
surrender. not just once but to do it

36:51
every single day because unless as in

36:54
the words of Jesus unless the seed dies

36:57
the harvest cannot occur the fruits

36:59
cannot come so to the person that’s like

37:02
my life’s in shambles I’m like great

37:03
you’re you are in the process of dying

37:06
to yourself and learning what Paul

37:08
learned through all of that which was

37:10
yeah I know I’m going to chip wreck I

37:12
know I’m going to do all these things

37:13
and learning to have

37:16
untouchable joy to to the point where

37:18
he’s in prison probably tortured,

37:20
hungry, starving, and he’s singing out

37:23
of joy because of the joy that he

37:26
receives from abiding in Christ and

37:28
doing what God asked him to do, not just

37:30
today, but for his whole life.

37:32
Mhm.

37:32
And for me, it’s like, oh my gosh, what

37:34
that is the highest level of servant

37:36
leadership.

Jesus’ Example of Leadership

37:37
Yeah.

37:38
And I like to believe that Jesus not

37:40
only shows us what to do, but he shows

37:42
us to how to know what to do. And Jesus

37:44
says it in three times across the four

37:46
gospels is I only do what I see the

37:49
father doing.

37:51
That’s it.

37:52
He’s like that’s it. Like I only do what

37:55
I see the father doing. Like he doesn’t

37:57
he didn’t follow a three-step formula.

37:59
He didn’t have the script that he

38:01
memorized. Like every interaction that

38:03
he has with people in scripture is

38:05
different,

38:05
right?

38:06
You know, so like we know he wasn’t

38:08
following, you know, here are the the

38:10
four ways to get intimate. here are the

38:12
five ways to evangelize people, right?

38:14
Like he didn’t do that. He just did what

38:16
God asked him to do.

Trans Employee Story

38:18
So, there’s an employee that we have,

38:20
she belongs to the trans community, so

38:22
she is biologically a he.

38:24
And when we first hired her 5 years ago,

38:27
um she let me know like she had she

38:30
called me multiple times after a meeting

38:32
or slapped me after multiple meetings

38:34
saying, “Hey, my my pronouns are she,

38:35
her.

38:36
Please don’t, you know, misgender me and

38:38
all this stuff.” and she made it really

38:40
clear that uh she hates Christians that

38:44
she is a pronounced atheist and she is

38:47
not like she’ll work for us but she’s

38:49
not willing to hear anything about this

38:50
Jesus crap

38:52
right so

38:55
like my question is okay like how do we

38:56
how do we show her that Jesus loves her

38:59
like how do we do that like Jesus would

39:00
have done that you know how do we do

39:02
that how do we show that and I I I share

39:04
the story because I think it’s relevant

39:05
to today’s environment right with all

39:08
the stuff going on online and just this

39:09
division. And so I asked God, right,

39:12
like Shemma, what we talked about

39:13
earlier, like hearing and responding,

39:15
okay, God, what do you want me to do,

39:17
but not just this employee, but like

39:18
just any employee, like how do you want

39:19
me to show up, right? I’m just going to

39:21
walk in freedom and and you’re going to

39:23
tell me what you want me to do cuz

39:24
that’s how Jesus walked,

39:26
right? Like one of the things that our

39:27
friend Glenn Murray tells us is, how

39:29
many people died while Jesus was walking

39:31
the earth? Millions. Hundreds of

39:34
thousands, right? How many people did he

39:36
raise from the dead? one,

39:38
right? Like I think the social activist

39:40
today was like, “Well, why didn’t Jesus

39:41
heal everybody?” Right? Like what a

39:43
bigot, you know? Um, so I asked God,

39:45
“Okay, what do you want me to know? What

39:46
do you want me to do with with this

39:48
particular employee?” And he goes,

39:49
“Nothing for now.”

39:51
Like, great. Awesome.

39:54
So like, so like I like, you know, use

39:57
the pronouns that she wants me to use

39:59
like she her. I’m like biologically a he

40:01
and I’m like on the inside I’m kind of

40:02
like h like you know it makes me a

40:04
little uncomfortable but like I I will

40:05
do my part

40:06
right? So like two and a half 3 years

40:10
goes by and at the at a Christmas party

40:14
uh she comes up to Sam and I and she

40:15
goes hey I just I just want to let you

40:16
know that um this is the safest place

40:19
I’ve ever felt as a trans person

40:21
and I just want to thank you like I know

40:22
your beliefs you like I know you guys

40:24
are Christians. I know you guys are

40:25
conservative, but I I appreciate you not

40:26
ramming the Bible down my throat and and

40:29
not trying to convert me and try to use

40:32
me as a hey, look what I did. Uh to earn

40:34
brownie points from your fellow

40:36
community, right? And I’m like, yeah,

40:38
thank you. Yeah, absolutely. You know,

40:40
uh we love having you here. You’re

40:41
amazing. And and so uh we bring a

40:44
speaker who’s, you know, guy named Jamie

40:45
Winship and he did this exercise with

40:47
everybody in our team where it’s an

40:48
exercise where you learn to hear from

40:50
God even if you’re not like quote

40:51
unquote a believer. And so she did that

40:54
and I asked God, “Okay, what do you want

40:55
me to do and what do you want me to know

40:56
as a result of this event?” And he goes,

40:58
“Host every other Friday morning, uh,

41:01
host a prayer meeting where we do the

41:04
exercise and we all hear from God

41:05
together.” So like people show up. By

41:07
the way, the the atheists and the the

41:10
LGBTQ community, people that work for us

41:12
showed up more than the Christian

41:14
people, right? Which is like really

41:16
interesting. And so they show up and um

41:20
you know our our trans employee like

41:21
she’s she’s coming she’s learning to

41:23
like hear from God. So she’s like

41:25
hearing from God more and more and more.

41:27
So like and and and one day God’s like

41:30
hey I want you to take her out to lunch

41:32
and just hear her story. And I’m like

41:34
great this is awesome. So I take her out

41:36
to Portillos which is like literally

41:37
right there right? And for the people

41:39
that don’t know uh Chris and I’s office

41:41
like we’re literally right next to each

41:42
you know what I mean? Like it’s right

41:43
across the street you know. So we go to

41:45
like the portillos and I hear everything

41:48
from sexual abuse, like church trauma,

41:51
you know, like just being told that

41:52
she’s going to hell and all this stuff.

41:55
And I’m looking back and I’m like, “Oh

41:57
my gosh, like if I were to have taken

41:59
the traditional approach, which I when I

42:01
asked 99% of Christians, how do you how

42:03
do you take someone from the trans

42:04
community and show them that they’re

42:05
loved by Jesus?” They go, “Oh, well, you

42:07
show them love.” And my response, “Okay,

42:10
so we’re just nice to them.” Well, I

42:12
don’t know if that’s the solution

42:13
because the Mormons have us beat us at

42:14
that. Like the Mormons and the is the

42:16
Islamic people, the Muslims, like

42:18
they’re way better than Christians are

42:19
at being nice to people,

42:21
you know? So, like, well, I don’t think

42:22
it’s that. And they’re and they’re

42:24
clearly doing a much better job, right?

42:26
So, uh what I what I tell people now,

42:28
it’s like, well, what does God want you

42:29
to do? Cuz maybe God doesn’t want you to

42:31
convert that person for the first 3

42:32
years and just make them feel safe in

42:34
your workplace before you take them out

42:35
to lunch.

42:37
Maybe that’s what he wants you to do.

42:39
So, we go out to lunch. I hear again all

42:40
the just the pain like I mean she’s been

42:43
through it like from foster systems

42:45
right to parents like to her being

42:48
molested right I mean just like

42:49
everything wrong that you could think of

42:51
like it just happens to her right and my

42:53
heart breaks I’m in the lunch like oh my

42:55
gosh like I feel terrible right like

42:58
absolutely awful so we we continue to

43:00
like do the exercise right and she

43:02
continues to hear and she ends up

43:04
cancing the transition surgery that she

43:06
was supposed to have and she goes hey

43:08
like yeah like and and by the before

43:10
then there was this really cool moment

43:11
where like I asked her like hey by the

43:14
way like what is the name of like you

43:16
should ask the voice of unconditional

43:18
love like we do this exercise you should

43:20
ask that voice that you’re hearing from

43:22
what its name is and she goes like this

43:26
voice it’s clearly a man like told

Hearing from Jesus

43:28
his name is Jesus

43:30
right and then so she continues hearing

43:32
from Jesus she ends up canceling the

43:33
surgery and then like 3 months after

43:36
that the spirit instructs me to then go

43:38
okay like I I want you to invite her to

43:41
go over the Bible with her. It’s just

43:44
you and her one-on-one.

Studying the Book of John

43:46
And so for like the last 3 or 4 months,

43:50
we’ve been going through the book of

43:51
John like and she’s like really and

43:54
she’s at the point now where like she’s

43:56
not, you know, like the the journey is

43:58
not yet complete.

Quoting Scripture in Meetings

43:59
Totally.

43:59
Right. But she’s like quoting scripture

44:01
in meetings.

44:03
She’s like, “Yeah, I heard from God that

44:05
this is who I am.” like I am this

44:07
loving, caring individual, right? And

44:10
I’m like, and there’s times where I get

44:11
like discouraged cuz then like she’ll

44:12
wear makeup the next day and like you

44:14
know, but then

Encouragement to Keep Listening

44:16
there’s also times where it’s like she’s

44:17
like quoting scripture and he’s like,

44:18
“Yeah, Jesus is telling me this.” And

44:20
I’m like, “That’s great. Like keep keep

44:22
listening, keep hearing like don’t

44:24
stop.” Like don’t stop. Like that that’s

44:25
the voice that we need to hear from,

44:27
right? So we’ll do this really really

Process of Transformation

44:29
cool exercise. But my my point with all

44:31
that being is unless God took me through

44:34
that process where revenue is down, I

44:36
lose real estate deals and I’m dead to

44:38
myself. My my agenda would have taken

44:41
over and been like, “Oh, hey, we need to

44:43
do the hermeneutical studies and we need

44:46
to like take her to church.” And by the

44:48
way, like this entire time, this 5

44:50
years, I’ve never invited her to church,

44:52
right?

Perception of Church Invitations

44:53
Because if if I were to all the work

44:55
that it would have been done, it would

44:56
have been damaged,

44:57
right? cuz she told me, she’s like,

44:59
“Yeah, there’s been times where I’ve

45:00
been invited to church, but I know these

45:02
people are only nice to me because they

45:04
see me as a project. They see me as a

45:07
person that needs to be converted to

45:09
their religion.”

Feeling Like a Project

45:10
But she’s like, at the end of the day, I

45:12
know that they could literally care less

45:14
about me. Like, they’re only being nice

45:16
cuz that’s what they’re supposed to do.

45:18
Cuz that’s the experience that she’s had

45:20
in the past. And she goes, “Every single

45:21
time, by the way, that that’s happened

45:23
where people are nice to me, I end up

45:24
being hurt. I end up like overhearing

45:26
conversations where I’m called a freak.

45:29
Like I end up like people point at me,

45:31
they tell me that I’m going to hell and

45:32
all this stuff and like they just see me

45:34
as a project. So I So this entire time

45:37
like I’ve never taken it to church. But

45:38
had I not been dead to myself and gone

45:41
through that process of of

45:42
uncomfortability and just going through

45:45
it like I never would have shown up in a

45:48
way where it’s like God I actually like

45:49
it’s it’s your like this is your son,

45:53
right? like this is your agenda. Your

45:55
what do you want me to do? Do you want

45:57
me to back? Do you want me to do

45:58
anything about it? Oh, you don’t? Okay,

45:59
great. I’ll just I’ll continue walking,

Learning to Inquire of the Lord

46:01
right? And so, you see in scripture,

46:04
we’re like, I mean, I don’t care if it’s

46:05
Moses, David, Joseph, like they receive

46:08
this calling, right? Like, for example,

46:10
David, David receives this calling to be

46:12
king at like age 13 or 14, right? He has

46:15
this amazing moment where he defeats

46:16
Goliath and but then he’s not king. He

46:19
doesn’t become king until he’s 30,

46:21
right? which says in you know 2 Samuel

46:23
chapter 1 he doesn’t become king until

46:25
at the age of 30 so for those 15 16

46:27
years he’s learning as it says in first

46:30
at the end of 1st Samuel what does it

46:32
mean to then inquire of the Lord

Transformation Before Action

46:36
right like what does it mean for me to

46:37
inquire of the Lord cuz there’s a period

46:39
of time where he’s like it says David

46:41
thought to himself and X Y and Z

46:42
happened and it eventually led to like

46:45
his men wanting to kill him like like

46:48
they’re in this cave and it says like

46:49
their legs were weak from weeping too

46:50
much right? Cuz their home country,

46:52
their hometown had just been ransacked

46:54
by the enemy.

46:55
And then that’s when David, it says

46:56
David then inquired of the Lord. And the

46:59
very next chapter, he becomes king.

47:02
Right? So there’s this pattern of like

47:03
God gives us a calling, right? He gives

47:06
us a new identity. He gives us a new

47:08
name like Jacob becomes Israel. Abram

47:11
becomes Abraham. Often times that’s what

47:13
God wants to do with us because being

47:15
informs doing. we can’t do unless we

47:18
know who we are being in the eyes of God

47:20
in the kingdom. And so they all go

47:23
through. So they receive this new

47:25
identity. They receive this calling. But

47:26
then there’s like years of God having to

47:29
transform them and prepare them to

47:31
actually do what he wants them to do out

47:34
of a place where it’s healthy, dead to

47:36
themselves, and where God’s agenda

47:38
matters more than their agenda.

Servant Leadership Journey

47:40
Mhm.

47:40
Right. So like you know I’m not done

47:43
with it yet but like for anybody that

47:45
wants to be a servant leader my argument

47:47
is you have to go through it.

47:50
Unless you go through that you will not

47:52
you will actually be under your own

47:54
agenda. You will actually have what you

47:56
think is right and what your desire is.

47:57
You cannot be you cannot right just like

48:00
how Jesus says in John chapter 15. Apart

48:02
from me you will do nothing.

Love Others as Jesus Loves

48:04
Right. I it kind of makes me think of

48:08
something that we’ve both heard before.

48:10
Um, and it’s this concept of love your

48:13
neighbor as yourself, right? But there’s

48:15
still that self-focused. And then you

48:17
brought up John 13, right? And at the

48:18
end of John 13, Jesus says to his

48:20
disciples, “A new command I give you.”

48:22
That’s right.

48:23
Love others as I have loved you.

48:25
And it totally takes away that

48:27
selffocus, which you’ve talked about

48:28
throughout the podcast. So that

48:30
resonates clearly and makes tons of

48:32
sense as the wrap-up to even how John 13

48:34
started. Yeah.

Understanding God’s Love

48:35
Which is just amazing.

48:37
That’s right. Cuz cuz we can’t love

48:38
others unless we know how we’re loved

48:40
first by him,

48:41
right? It’s like I mean this adage like

48:43
we can’t give away what we don’t have.

48:45
Yeah.

48:45
And that’s so true. And we we have a lot

48:48
of Western Christianity nowadays is

48:50
giving away what we think we have.

Podcast Wrap-Up

48:53
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. This is so good.

48:55
There’s so much wisdom. I’m thankful for

48:57
you and your friendship obviously, but

48:59
thank you that you joined the podcast.

49:01
Before we finish, I want to finish with

Rapid Fire Questions

49:04
10 rapid fire questions.

49:05
Oh, man. Here we go.

49:06
Where you say the first thing that comes

49:07
to mind?

49:09
Do we have Do we have editors, by the

49:10
way, but in case I say anything

49:11
inappropriate,

49:12
we’re we’re rolling with whatever you

49:13
said.

Servant Leadership Inspiration

49:14
Okay.

49:14
Who’s the first person you think of when

49:16
I say servant leadership?

49:18
My dad.

Describing Yourself in Five Words

49:19
Yeah.

49:19
Five words that most describe you.

49:22
Oh gosh. Short, Korean,

49:26
bad at golf. There’s five.

Favorite Food

49:27
All right. Uh, what’s your favorite

49:29
food? FA

49:32
Vietnamese. It’s so good.

Favorite Book or Author

49:34
What’s your favorite book or author?

49:37
Excluding the Bible, cuz that’s like a

49:39
gimme.

49:39
Okay. Excluding the Bible. Yeah. Yeah.

49:41
Okay. Uh, holes.

Free Time Activities

49:44
Okay.

49:45
Yeah. Disney like Disney. That’s what

49:47
I’m thinking. Shila Buff.

49:48
Yeah. Okay.

49:49
Yeah.

49:50
Okay.

49:50
I don’t know why that was the first

49:51
thing that came to my mind.

49:52
What What do you like to do in your free

49:54
time?

49:55
bug you with fantasy football trades

49:58
that like make no sense, but

50:00
that’s our whole league.

Surprising Fact

50:01
Yeah.

50:01
What’s a surprising fact about you?

50:03
I’m lowkey really good at bowling.

50:06
Really?

50:06
Yeah.

50:07
We got to go bowling.

50:08
Yeah, I’m It’s weird. And I bowl with

50:10
two. It’s such a weird thing, but I like

50:12
spin the ball.

Favorite Place Visited

50:13
Wow.

50:13
It’s so weird.

50:14
Wow. All right. Where Where’s your

50:16
favorite place you’ve been,

50:19
man? My grandma’s house

50:21
in in in Korea. She just turned 93 and I

50:24
visited her earlier this year.

Travel Preferences

50:26
Wow,

50:27
dude. It’s amazing.

50:28
Is there anywhere you want to go that

50:30
you have not been?

50:34
No. My wife and I hate traveling. So,

50:36
like, it’s like, yeah, we just love

50:38
being home just with our, you know, four

50:40
and a half month old daughter. And yeah,

50:42
I don’t think there’s Oh, I’m sorry.

50:43
Augusta National.

Best Advice Received

50:45
Oh,

50:45
yeah. We do that together.

50:47
Yeah. Me and you.

50:48
All right. Best advice you’ve ever

50:50
received.

50:51
How you do one thing is how you do

50:52
everything.

Importance of Servant Leadership Podcast

50:53
Wow. Yeah.

50:54
All right. And finally, and you know a

50:56
lot about podcasts. Why do you think a

50:58
podcast on servant leadership could be

51:00
important for people?

51:02
Because you not only get the nuggets,

51:03
but you get the context and the story of

51:06
how they got the nuggets.

51:08
And in that, you realize that God has a

51:10
very different and unique way on how he

51:12
teaches those things to every single

51:14
person.

51:15
And it’s our job to figure it out.

Closing Remarks

51:17
Wow. Well, thank you. If people want to

51:20
follow stuff you’re doing, what’s the

51:21
best way for people to follow you? just,

51:23
you know, just subscribe to Chris

51:24
Lesnar, everything, his LinkedIn, his

51:27
Instagram, you know. Uh, but yeah, I

51:30
mean, if people just want to look me up,

51:31
my name is, my name is Daniel Quac.

51:33
Sorry, I have a weird Asian name, you

51:35
know. It’s just KW AK, you know.

51:36
Should they follow the Quack Bros on

51:38
YouTube or do any of that?

51:39
Yeah, sure. I mean, we post stuff on

51:41
like real estate investing, on debt

51:42
payoff, financial strategies. So,

51:44
love it.

51:45
Yeah.

51:45
All right. Well, thank you and we look

51:47
forward to maybe having you again in the

51:48
future.

Podcast Conclusion

51:49
Love it, man. Thank you for listening to

51:51
this episode of the Servant Leadership

51:53
Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard,

51:56
please give it a thumbs up and leave a

51:58
comment below. Don’t forget to subscribe

52:01
and hit the notification bell to never

52:03
miss an update. Be sure to check out the

52:06
servantleershipodcast.org

52:07
for more updates and additional bonus

52:09
content.