Chris Lesner
Horace, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
Great to be with you. ⁓
I'm so excited for our audience to hear your story because it's been so impactful on my life. ⁓ Share a little bit of history of who you are.
Okay, ⁓ well, if ⁓ you will, professionally, I'm a hotel guy, but ⁓ not a hotel business anymore because I'm emphasizing that because most people when they talk about know me about having started Ritz Carlton or Capella Hotel Company and expect from me to talk up whatever I'm talking, it's hotel. No, it's not. It's life. It's any business.
I'm in the hospitality business, but I believe, for example, that the hardware store is in hospitality. ⁓ The bank is in hospitality. Everybody is. When you deal with people, you're in a hospitality world. So I don't try to teach anybody ⁓ hospitality. But who am I? I come from a small village in Germany. I left home, that's kind of pertinent, when I was 14, to live in a hotel.

Horst
in a dorm room, 100 plus kilometers away from home. So I was on my own since I'm 14 ⁓ and learned the business, my business ⁓ and life from a lot, ⁓ luckily from a lot of good people. ⁓ For example, and then I give that a key because it is a key part of my life. ⁓ The first day I started working in that hotel, I met the general manager.
who said, ⁓ you're here to learn to become a servant ⁓ to very important ladies and gentlemen, our guest. That's what I wanted, mind you. And that's the only time he ever talked to me about the message that you, the employees of the hotel, are servants ⁓ to very important ladies and gentlemen was there all the time, that message.
But the maître d 'Hotel, the head waiter of the hotel who I reported to, also spoke to me that same day and with two sentences changed my life. ⁓ And he said, ⁓ all right, young man, tomorrow show up at 7 a ⁓ If I meant one minute after seven, I would tell you so. So he established in one sentence, now, mind you, I didn't get that at the time. It went over my head. So.
I was 14 years old, but he established discipline, ⁓ control, ⁓ doing the right thing. When we say something, we mean it in one sentence. ⁓ And then he said, the second sentence, he said, and don't come to work tomorrow. Come here to create excellence in what you're doing. Now ⁓ that I didn't get at all because excellence, how can washing dishes...
and cleaning floors, et cetera, be excellent because I knew that's what I was going to do the next day. I learned over the next three and a half years with that particularly unusual human being that anything you do, you do with a higher intent. You make decisions for a higher intent. You don't just do things in life. You don't just fulfill functions.

Horst
I always say, and he said, I got it from him, the chair ⁓ is fulfilling a function. ⁓ You're a human being. ⁓ You should have the purpose of higher intent in what you're doing. ⁓ So that filled my life. From there on, I worked in the hotel business. And of course, ⁓ in the finest hotels in Europe, I worked in the US and for Hilton Hyatt and so on. And then finally,
started a new hotel company was the operational starter, the operational person that ran ⁓ and created the first Ritz -Carlton Hotel Company. Not the first Ritz -Carlton, the first, the Ritz -Carlton Hotel Company.
Because there was a Ritz here and there, there was a Ritz in ⁓ Paris, there was a Ritz in London and so on. ⁓ And we got that name and we created a new hotel company. And after I ran that company and brought it from zero hotels to ⁓ being in five continents ⁓ and being the leader in every location where we were and around the world, ⁓ I then finally retired after nearly 20 years.
And on a Friday and a Monday, I said to my wife, I'm going to start a new hotel company. And that really annoyed her. ⁓ I had been traveling 250 days a year, mind you. She said, you're outrageous. How dare you? ⁓ But my wife, she's a, what a lady. She came to me a few days later and said, that's who you are. ⁓ I'll support you, but don't do it as crazy as you did before.
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Horst
So I started a new hotel company, which is called Capella. I sold it three years ago, but it is now rated number one in the world, as Ritz -Carlton was the last 13, 14 years that I ⁓ was leading it. And now it is Capella, the number one. And in fact, I'm leaving tomorrow for Singapore to see Capella. And then I go to Bali to see an old Ritz -Carlton. So.
Wow. So this concept of excellence, this concept of servant leadership, ⁓ how did you see it play out throughout your career? Either direction.
Well, you know, servant leadership is an interesting word. What does it really mean? We are here to care for the people whom we serve. ⁓ Let me, let me break down that word service to start with. And, and, and people, and, and I talked to a lot of people who are, and Manu, ⁓ I'm working and consulting and advising and speaking to a lot of companies. I'm on the Washington Speakers Bureau and so on. Constantly get connected.
And here I talked to a bank, ⁓ to a CEO of a bank and said, what industry are you in? And he says, well, obviously we're in the service industry. So I ask him, what is service? Define it for me. And he can't. ⁓ And everybody talks about it, can't. What is service? ⁓ Service starts the instant ⁓ you make contact with a customer or with anyone. That instant, it doesn't start a half a second later.
So it should start with a great greeting. Welcome, good morning. ⁓ A greeting that recognizes the other person. ⁓ That's the beginning of service. ⁓ I'm honoring you. Good morning, sir. How are you today? And sir's saying, hey. If I say hey, I'm going to say hey, we're equal and you'd mean nothing to me. But if I say good morning, welcome, if I'm in the hotel, or good morning, how are you? I am.

Horst
immediately ⁓ serving ⁓ that person as a human being. I'm recognized as an important human being, as somebody I respect. And of course, at the same time, I express ⁓ at work that I am professional, that you can trust me. ⁓ I mean, I am nothing. ⁓ And the next step right after the greeting ⁓ is to be there for the need ⁓ that is serving.
I am now here, if I'm in a business, if I run a hardware store or whatever, once you come in and I greet you at a bank or an hotel, or it doesn't matter, or I'm selling cars, it doesn't matter, I'm now next here to help you make the best decision about, relative to what I'm doing. I'm gonna help you. I'm here to, it's about you, it's not about me.
It's not about me, it's about you. So that's the second stack of service and that is serving ⁓ leadership. ⁓ That's it. And then of course next, ⁓ farewell. ⁓ Thank you for allowing me to serve you. So those are the three stages of service. Welcome, comply to the needs and farewell. And if I do that ⁓ with you in mind,
And with the intent that when I'm finished with myself to you, that you actually want to come back and want to recommend me. That's the intent. That has to be the absolute intent of any serving ⁓ customer contact. ⁓ That I am going to convince you that you want to come back because I am here to help you.
High intent. ⁓ Excellence in everything that we want to accomplish is not an accident. ⁓ Excellence is the result of high intent, a decision of high intent and hard work.

Chris Lesner
Why is it so hard for people?
But it is ⁓ a question of insecurities, ⁓ it's our emotions, which we have to understand. We are full of emotions and egos and stuff and so on. It's all, we are made up of it. But I have to understand that that is so. Once I understand that it's so, that I'm dealing with human beings with those emotions, and I am, ⁓ no, here's the market, and each one has that emotion in the market. Here is my employees and I.
And we have that now I'm going to bring that together in a positive way. And that is, that is leading people in a possible. Now, managing is to create the processes of work, ⁓ but leading is to make sure that people buy in and understand and understand them to that we're here to relate to other people. ⁓ And leader leading is that my employees want to do the job and not have to do the job.
It must be repeatable because you've been able to do it business after business and help companies after company.
⁓ well, it has to be, yeah. Well, I had no choice. I can say, ⁓ yes, I can run my hotel by walking around, by being present, by constantly correcting. I can teach what's happening in that one hotel. But it has to be transferable. Very good observation. How I'm going to make sure though, ⁓ that my doorman in Shanghai is nice to the guests, just as it is in my hotel that I'm running myself.

Horst
And at the same time, ⁓ the bellman in Berlin ⁓ and the busboy in Chacarta, ⁓ et cetera, et cetera. So it has to be transferable. And for that, you have to create processes. ⁓ Now, our simple process for that, in conversation here, we said, okay, it's human beings. Now, what is the process so that when you work in Ritz -Carlton ⁓ in Chile,
or in Osaka or in Berlin or in Philadelphia, you feel that you are in a Ritz -Carlton, ⁓ even though they may look totally different.
So we made sure that our selection of employees was the process of selecting employees ⁓ was the same in every location. The process of orientation of employees, the process of training the function, ⁓ and the process of sustaining ⁓ the behavior and an attitude of the employees was the same in each hotel.
So consequently, ⁓ every day ⁓ in every hotel around the world, ⁓ before every shift, ⁓ the same discussion took place. Very systemically ⁓ and very relaxed and very common sense. ⁓ So consequently, ⁓ in every hotel around the world, the same conversation took place ⁓ and consequently.
the same culture existed.

Chris Lesner
Wow. Culture building so hard. I mean, from the ground up, obviously you've helped other companies build cultures in their companies as well. How do you go about helping people outside the Ritz Carlton Capella group? How do you help other companies do that?
Well, in fact, I'm leaving ⁓ tomorrow. ⁓ Yesterday, I worked with a major company here in Atlanta. Tomorrow, Saturday evening, I'm flying out to Singapore, where I work with a company for two days, and then I go for three days to Bali and work with another company on the same stuff. So it's kind of fascinating. ⁓ Well, let's understand what really is culture. ⁓ Culture is the overall belief.
of the organization, the belief that permeates the organization ⁓ from the top to the bottom. ⁓ That creates, is the culture. ⁓ And so the culture can be created ⁓ contrary to what people say and so on. So what does the leader believe? ⁓ If that is a secret, and in most companies it is, a secret as to what a leader believes, so you don't have a culture. So the culture is...
Whatever it is that day, ⁓ the mood, whatever is the mood of the moment is the culture. ⁓ That's not very good. ⁓ But the culture has to be a high intent belief, a high intent belief again of the organization, which comes from the top and permeates the organization. ⁓ I have to work with my direct report and be sure that we have the common beliefs. I should have in my direct report an interpersonal relationship.
where we develop our ⁓ belief. For example, we work, we develop, just one example, we develop together the vision of the company.

Horst
So like Ritz -Carlton, my vision was this has to be, I want to only join this company that had no hotels at the time. And I didn't need a job when they offered me a job, but they asked me to come to run the company ⁓ and start this new company. Me as the operator, they were investors and developers. ⁓ So I dreamt, yeah, I would do that if I can.
have the right to create the finest hotel company in the world. That was my dream. And they said, well, ⁓ you run it. You decide. So I hired my first two people and I said right away, don't join me unless you want to join me to build the finest hotel company in the world. Now I knew them, they laughed and said, you must be kidding me. We don't even have a hotel. That's not it. That's the vision. ⁓ So after the join, so now let's sit down.
and make that a culture. ⁓ But we cannot make the culture unless our vision is good for all.
So we sat down, is our vision truly good for every investor? ⁓ Not just saying yes, we actually put a T -shirt together and looked at it. ⁓ Next, is that vision ⁓ good for every employee? Why? We wrote it down. ⁓ Is that vision good for every guest? Yes. Is that vision truly good ⁓ for society as a whole?
We all ended up to say yes. Now we had ⁓ the foundation of a culture, a common objective, a common purpose ⁓ of value to everybody. ⁓ Now, I ⁓ frankly, that is, ⁓ guys, I hope nobody misunderstand what I'm going to say now. I myself had went away after that night ⁓ and agonized, would God approve? I had to, for myself, I needed that answer too.

Horst
And it was this. Now, what happened here? We had ⁓ an absolutely essential foundation for a culture. What is our future? Common future, ⁓ common belief, we want to be the best. Understanding it's good for everybody. ⁓ But at the same time, it put me, the leader, in the corner ⁓ because I have no more right to compromise now.
I have no more right. ⁓ If I'm compromising what we just established, I'm going against the owners, I'm going against the employee, going against society. ⁓ I'm not going. So it's very clear where I have to lead ⁓ and what direction the culture has to go. So now that's one belief. Now we have to, ⁓ based on this objective, we have to say, what will it take ⁓ to be the best?
What do we have to do different? ⁓ And now I have to communicate that and make sure that it's clearly communicate and sustained, not just say it one time, here's what we do, and say, no, no, no. Constantly talked about. ⁓ So now we have a culture is developing in our overall belief because we constantly talk about it. So you have always done the culture where everybody said, we are here to be the best. We're here and that's good for us.
And that means we have to be nice to everybody. ⁓ And we want to be nice because ⁓ being the best gives us something, ⁓ et cetera, et cetera. So this working on culture is finished. ⁓ But how can you work on your culture? And I see it all the time when you don't even have a vision where you're going to go. I don't see vision statements. I see mission statements a lot. ⁓ And we are doing this and this and this very excellently.
It's not a vision. That's a mission. Where will it take you? Who are you going to be in 15 years from now?

Horst
And then they write something that it can be. No, no, no. What do you want to be? What is your dream? Is that dream good for all concerned? That's a vision. And that creates culture. Right there, ⁓ that's the absolute... If you don't have that... How can you have a culture if you don't even know where you're going? And then you talk about leadership, manual. ⁓ leaders. So where you're going to lead? You don't know where you lead? You lead, but you don't know where to?
If you don't have a vision, you cannot lead without a vision.
You were probably one of the first people I ever heard talk about servant leadership and leadership in general. ⁓ Before servant leadership was cool, before it was popular, before there was this great service mentality, how did you even come up with the framework around servant leadership?
Well, again, it really goes back to this ⁓ way back maître d 'etat, Carl Zeidler, who was a very unusual being. He said, we're not here to serve food and beverage in the restaurant. Food and beverage, we're here to instill well -being. He had a higher intent ⁓ and we are here. And if somebody leaves this restaurant and doesn't feel well,
We failed. Now that is servant leadership. That is servant. That you're there for the people, for people. ⁓ And that ⁓ is applied here. I'm here for people in a high thought, not selfish for me. I'm not here to... He didn't do this to get a higher tip. And he got him, but that's not why he did it. He did...

Horst
to make them feel well. That was his ultimate satisfaction when people really truly, what a great evening. What a wonderful evening we had. And he made it clear to me and later in my consulting with people, ⁓ and everybody knows now that I consulted with Chick -fil -A 30 some years ago, ⁓ what a great company. And in fact, when I talked to the CEO at the time, Dan Cathy, I said,
Why do people really go for, come to your restaurant and eat there? Because the food is good, that's not true. They come there, if you sit in your office and say, where we going for lunch? Where we going for dinner? ⁓ What bank I deal with or whatever. Are you going to the place where the food was good? No, you go to the place where you felt good. That includes the food. That doesn't mean you can't give lots of food. Yeah.
but you go where you felt good in your memory and that's the decision you make. So in the restaurant, it's not just the food, it's how do we make sure you feel good by respecting you. ⁓ I spoke, this is funny, I spoke to a great hotel group.
all the great hotels of America. ⁓ Excuse me, owners and the general managers and so on were there. And before me was a lady spoke. ⁓ She's running a great hotel, great resort, by the way, so and so. But she spoke about 30 minutes and said at least 20 times, forget everything ⁓ that you know, knew about the business. Forget it all. Forget everything is new. Everything is new.
You make, yeah, that's where you make the reservation. That's how you check in. That's how you call the elevator. That's how you go in your room. Forget everything you knew. Forget everything you knew.

Horst
I spoke next and I said, nothing is new. ⁓ Because you know, 5 ,000 years ago, people wanted to be respected. And last week and this morning and right now. And we are here ⁓ to do with this ⁓ or with whatever we do ⁓ to show them that we care for them and respect them. It will never be new.
the fundamental thing that you want to feel good dealing with me.
if you know it or not, that I have to make you feel good dealing with me, no matter, even if I sell.
grass cutters, blowers, I don't care what. ⁓ It doesn't matter. I should make you want to deal with me because I'm respecting you. I'm here to help you. I'm here to instill well -being in you. ⁓ And if I respect you, you will like, by the way, there's this fantastic, ⁓ relatively new study that was made of the American market. I mean, get this. This is so fantastic.
80 % of the American market says, ⁓ I will deal with you, no matter what business. If you care for me, ⁓ even if I could buy the same product you have next door for less. Now, think about that. ⁓ In other words, caring, in other words, if you respect me, ⁓ then I will be loyal to you. Why is that? ⁓ People...

Horst (24:31.132)
talk about customers' loyalty and so on. And you can't just talk about it. You have to analyze it, understand it. Customer loyalty is nothing more than a developed trust. And trust is not accomplished with a product. ⁓ And in a way, yes, if you keep on giving the same product over and over, then it's always perfect. Trust will develop. But the trust is developed much by relationship. If I'm nice to you and respect you, you will start trusting me.
Consequently, deal with me because you don't deal next door because you don't trust them. You don't know them. You come and you're willing to deal with me because you trust me even if it pays a little bit more.
So that is all done by relationship. And the relationship is accomplished by trust, by feeling good. It's done by relationship. It's not by the product. ⁓ You know, if you buy the, I always use bottle of water, and you buy a bottle of water, what do you expect? The same thing that you would buy a house or a computer, everything, subconsciously, you expect that the product is defect free. That's expected.
And you expect to have it timely. ⁓ And finally, you expect ⁓ that the people who give it to you are nice to you, no matter in what purchase. ⁓ And it's the being nice that study shows, ⁓ drives the loyalty. ⁓ Now, how do you accomplish that? By having the right culture of the organization. ⁓ So that's what we're all about. We're not here about just giving them the bottle of water. No, we are here to make them feel well. ⁓ Bang, you have a new different culture and different.
You talk about both in your book when you're speaking and just ⁓ as a leader, you've talked about the model of ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. And one thing that I've learned from you is just the importance of empowering your people, right? To be able to be set up well, to serve well. What does empowering your people look like?

Horst
Yeah, well, ⁓ I have to laugh because I'm thinking this moment when I made this ⁓ huge empowerment decision ⁓ and it became, ⁓ and I knew it would be a little bit controversial, but it was so controversial that it was like nuclear bombs went off in our office every day. ⁓ And it wasn't that complicated a decision. ⁓ It became very clear. And here's what happened really.
We did a lot of surveys and studies, okay? And we had a focus group going on anyway. ⁓ And the guy that ran ⁓ the focus group for us was a man named Charles Cleveland. He passed away in the meantime. It was really the ⁓ global experts of word analysis. He analyzed ⁓ not what they say, but they really meant.
Outstanding, outstanding man, by the way. Anyway, we did a survey and I said, by the way, by the way, since you're an adult anyway, find something else out for me. ⁓ What do they mean when they say to guests, we want to feel at home in a hotel? What do they mean with that? ⁓ And because I never understood that at home, what does it mean being at home? ⁓ What's the meaning in their mind? And he came back laughingly said, hey, you study.
They don't want to feel at home. They want to feel like in their subconscious memory, ⁓ they remember their mother's home. So, wow, what is that? Well, when they opened the refrigerator, there was food that they liked. The grass was cut, didn't have to think who did it. And here was the key. When something went wrong, and as a kid, and they went to their mom and said, mom, mom, something terrible, what did mom do?
Mom said, come here, come here, come here, come here. Come, I take your arm, come here. Mom never said I called the manager ⁓ when something went wrong. I said, wow.

Horst (28:51.420)
Yeah, and then I looked at some studies that showed when a guest complains and is not happy in any business, that about 96 % of the time that a guest complains is unhappy, expresses unhappiness, all they want is get rid of their frustration about the incident or the situation. They don't want anything. They're frustrated and want to tell something. ⁓ And...
they tell the first person that will listen. So, wow. Now, ⁓ having said that, I believe you cannot afford having somebody unhappy and leave unhappy, particularly today because the unhappy customer today will become a terrorist against your company. They go on the internet, they go and do those things here and they become terrorists against you. So I knew at the time...
We didn't have that much that my guest that would leave unhappy ⁓ and we don't accept his complaint, his frustration, ⁓ that they will call the travel agent and I will lose the travel agent ⁓ and I will lose that particular guest and he will tell others. ⁓ I didn't want to avoid that. So I said, wow, if they complain, how do I make sure we accept that complaint? Because we know those 96 % if they complain,
and it's accepted, it's gone. But if it don't accept it, it goes high, it spikes. We knew that, we don't know the studies on that. So I said, what am I gonna do? So I said, I'm gonna empower everybody to take care of a complaint, no matter who gets it.
So we went to a vice president meeting and discussed that and they said, so how are we going to empower them? And I said, well, ⁓ let's do it right, up to $2 ,000 a per an employee. No matter what, every employee has to make a decision with any complaint to make sure the guest leaves the hotel happy. And every employee has to write a decision up to $2 ,000. ⁓ Well, you should have heard the explosion on that one.

Horst
Gosh, do you want the busboy to give the money? No, I want the busboy to keep the customer. ⁓ And now, frankly, ⁓ I also knew that the lifetime customer, our average age of our customer was 43 years old. I knew they could travel 30 more years. It would be a worse lifetime, about $200 ,000. ⁓ I knew that too. ⁓ So we...
empowered. And I thought, if I'm going to go and tell every employee around the world, I trust you to ⁓ make that decision after $2 ,000. ⁓ If you're a busboy or a waiter or the manager, I don't care as long as I keep the customer. That's a major impact. It had a dramatically positive impact. It also had the impact that some owners of hotels want to sue me for mismanagement and so on. ⁓ Yeah. OK.
And it turned out fine. It turned out great. That was empowerment to the ultimate. ⁓ Why $2 ,000? Everybody asked me. I don't know. I pulled it out of the air. ⁓ I didn't want to say $50, ⁓ $100. ⁓ I said, what about $2 ,000? Nobody gave away $2 ,000. But here comes that guest. ⁓
Maybe said in a Sweden pit thousand dollars at a time, which just means several thousand now. And he comes to the bus point and then the bus point in the morning says, good morning, sir, I hope you have a nice day with us. And the guest said, no, I didn't because my TV didn't work. In that moment, ⁓ we taught there now, we certified every employee around the world how to do that. Everybody was certified that that moment that that busboy said.
Please forgive me, sir. I'm so sorry about my TV. ⁓ When that happens, the customer that complains feels embarrassed that they even complained. ⁓ But we made it very sure. We taught everybody, you own the complaint. You own it, whatever you get. And then we taught them, I paraphrase, number one, listen. ⁓ Number two, show empathy. Number three, apologize. Number four, mega -mence.

Horst (33:25.404)
and you have $2 ,000 to Mega Man's. ⁓ And so the busboy said, I'll buy you breakfast. And the guest said, no, no, no, no, this is a no. So I feel so bad, I will buy you. You see, there is a guest ⁓ that may have left ⁓ the hotel calling the travel agents and said, this was bad. I lose the travel agent, or maybe the whole consortium of hundreds of travel agents. ⁓ Instead,
I have somebody live who is an ambassador for our company, ⁓ only by buying breakfast.
Yeah, I mean, there's such power there. Creating ambassadors, you've made millions of ambassadors around the world, obviously becoming the number one hotel brand multiple times over. ⁓ What do you see is the importance of building ambassadors and what other tips do you have for building ambassadors?
Thank you.

Horst
Well, ⁓ we said it. Understand we're not here to give them a piece. ⁓ We're not there just for the function. We're there to instill well -being in them. If you understand that and show them the respect, as I said before, everybody wants to be respected, wants to be recognized. I don't care if ⁓ it is the poor guy. ⁓
And don't get confused now. And I see today's business people, particularly hotels in this case, because I talk more to hotel people, okay? But everybody, you see, ⁓ when we started at Carden, ⁓ luxury was ⁓ chandeliers, marble, ⁓ real art, and so on. The guests that arrived arrived in a suit and a tie.
And they wanted an arm's length relationship, ⁓ generally, in that market. Today, the son of that guest arrives with blue jeans that have holes in them. And he says in his demeanor, I'm a dude like you. I'm just another dude. Don't get fooled. That son needs more.
to be told, I respect you than the father ever did. We know that. We know that. So you respect them, you treat them right, you give them, you show them, I am happy that you're my guest and I respect you. ⁓ Welcome. You still look at them and say welcome. They'll say hey. You still say with 10 feet, look them in the eye and show them that you're delighted that you have them there.
that you would be delighted to serve them, to give them whatever they need, that you're there for them. They still do that. And they appreciate it, they appreciate it, and they need it more than their father did. Don't get fooled by that. I want to push that in there, because people are easily fooled, they're coming. They just want to stop, and it's not true. We know that. ⁓ And they have much higher demand. The father, by the way, interesting, ⁓ I told before, the expectation,

Horst
in your mind when you buy anything is ⁓ the product, the timeliness and the caring. Those are the three expectations that you have subconsciously. ⁓ For instance, the timeliness, the father, we knew ⁓ 40 years ago ⁓ that when the father or the mother, it doesn't matter, I mean, ⁓ don't anybody call he, she, ⁓ all this baloney. ⁓ When the guest arrives, okay.
in rush hour in our hotels. We knew if they didn't wait longer than four minutes to check in, they were fine. Over four minutes, they got annoyed. ⁓ So we played our tricks and two minutes in waiting, we came out with cookies and a soft drink and talked to them so they wouldn't notice that it was over four minutes. But four minutes, they got annoyed. The sun gets annoyed after 20 seconds.

Horst
Timeliness is different, has become different. And that's how much more demanding and everything the sun really is. And if you give it to them and let yourself not be fooled, and the individualization is much higher in the sun, or daughter, doesn't matter. The need of individualization, because you guys, millennials, ⁓ you have two things that are different. The one thing you say is,
do it my way. And the other thing, your question, what's in it for me?
Well, as an employee, you have to tell them what's in it for them. If we are accomplishing to be the best in the world, here's how you will benefit.
I'm just doing it, for example. ⁓ And they do it my way. It's very important because, for example, if I go to McDonald's, I would order a number one. The millennial says, I have a number one, but no tomatoes, two slices of pickles, no mayonnaise and blah, individualization. And that individualization demand is very high in everything ⁓ that the millennials want and...
is Gen X even more so. So we know your business, you should know everybody ⁓ that the individuality demand will go up for the next 20 years for sure. So if you're in any business, you have to say, how can I tweak my business so that it can respond individually ⁓ to the service? And that is also that that was, of course, also part of the

Horst
empowerment. You can respond to the individual and let you do it. It's not about us, it's about them.
That's amazing. ⁓ So throughout this, throughout this journey, obviously so many people have asked you about service, servant leadership, excellence, and you came out with a book. How'd you make that decision to come out with a book and start touring and speaking?
Okay, I can tell you that. I mean, through a wonderful, wonderful human being. And most of you know, and then there was Stephen Covey. Stephen Covey and I got, we started very early. He happened to be a guest and he talked about a lot. And one day he was talking about this company, this hotel, and everything. I saw a video.
Everything was so great and I don't tell you that the hotel that they found was true North and I ⁓ realized it's our hotel. And I said by myself, please mention our name, please. And he didn't. So I sent him a letter and said, I saw it. I'm very honored that he felt good in our hotel, but I was disappointed he didn't mention our name. He called me and said, I'm coming to Atlanta. Let's have breakfast. We met for breakfast and we became friends.
I went a number of times to his roundtable discussions and so on. We kept on communicating a lot and he kept on saying, what you have done must be ⁓ written in a book so other people will learn it. And the simplicity of it, the common sense, the humanity of it, ⁓ that's his words, but I'm not stressing what I'm... And he kept on pushing me and I said, yeah, yeah, I write a book, I write a book and I write a book.

Horst
One day, and that went on for a few years, one day I drove home one evening, the telephone rang in the car and I answered my telephone. And he said, and that was the typical voice of Stephen Coven, ⁓ Horst, I am disappointed in you. That's how I spoke. ⁓ Stephen, ⁓ nice to hear your voice. How are you? Why are you disappointed in me? You still haven't written your book, you.
own it to write your book. ⁓ And I said, I'll tell you what, Steve, I started taking notes, I will write the book. And soon later, Steven died. And I had not written a word since our conversation. And I felt very bad. And I went home and I got the notice of his death. I went home and started writing the book. Okay, that's why I wrote it.
and to share it because he had urged me so much. And I didn't want to, I hesitated ⁓ because I read business books, ⁓ started with starting usually with excitement. After about one third, I put them away because I'm bored to death.
And I thought myself I have to write a business book in stories. And that's what I tried to do. I tried to put myself in the mind of a young person who reads it. ⁓ And I wanted that young person to finish reading it. And that's why I read it as a story, my story, and put the business in there. And that's why I wrote it the way I wrote it. ⁓ And I'm ⁓ very ⁓ thankful.
how successful it became. ⁓ And like your organization, so many organizations use it as a guideline. I had one call ⁓ where a business CEO of a large company called me and said, I cannot believe what happened with your book. Somebody gave me your book. And I went into the plan in Miami ⁓ and I got bored and I pulled it out. I didn't plan to read it, but I started reading. I finished it in the plan.

Horst
And I just ordered 5 ,000 for all my employees. ⁓ That's how it sold. It sold only by people reading it and then buying it for the company in the stores that didn't sell. ⁓ Why would anybody pick a book with my picture on it? It would be ridiculous. ⁓ But so many people, ⁓ several that bought 3 ,000, 2 ,000, 1 ,000, and hundreds and so on. So it sold that way very, very strongly ⁓ and getting
And it's fascinating. It's just fascinating. Like you said, you build your company somewhere around. ⁓ I had a guy call me from Rome, Italy, with an Italian accent and said, I read your book. I have a law firm. ⁓ We wanted to know, we all live by your book now. Wow. I mean, what an honor. What an honor. What an honor. And I tried to make it.
And it was not written for hotels, mind you. It was written for business, any business, any leadership.

Chris Lesner
This has been amazing. I have 10 rapid fire questions that I want to ask you and you just say the first.
I ⁓ can't think that fast. ⁓ Okay. ⁓
You just say the first thing that comes to your mind and there's no right or wrong answer. But who's the first person you think of when I say the word servant leadership?
Jesus. Sorry.
Love it. Five words that most describe yourself.

Horst (45:8.028)
Intense. ⁓ Intense. ⁓ Impatient. ⁓ Intense. Impatient. ⁓ A little arrogant. ⁓
All right, favorite.
but hardworking ⁓ and really loving. ⁓ In love, ⁓ listen, I'm 45 years married, still in love with my wife, so just so you know.
Love that.

Chris Lesner
Love that. Who's your favorite author or what's your favorite book? Either way.
⁓ Aristotle. ⁓ and modern Metaxas, the way he tells story about people that were thinking different than other people. Interesting. ⁓ Bonhoeffer, our Bonhoeffer's great book. ⁓ There again, think about it, there was a guy who was thinking different than society did. That is so exciting. ⁓ Metaxas writes about Wilberforce, Bonhoeffer, Luther and so on. All people.
favorite.

Chris Lesner
Yeah, Bonhoeffer was a great book. ⁓ Yeah.

Horst
who were thinking totally different than society was thinking at the time. Very fascinating.
Favorite movie.
or a dead porcelain society.
Favorite food.
Everything, ⁓ everything. I just was ⁓ in Tokyo and went to see Ono Chiro, who is, they wrote about, I dream of sushi, the movie, and he is 98 years old, no, 89, 89 years old, I'm sorry, nearly 100, and is the number one sushi maker in the world.

Horst
Wow, what an experience. ⁓ Was on my bucket list, so I had to do that one. ⁓
Love that. Favorite thing to do in your free time.
or be with my wife, no question about it. Be wife, communicate, read together, ⁓ walk together, think together, analyze together. but I like fishing, I like all kinds of other things too. ⁓ But hey, nothing better to have this ⁓ sensational relationship of marriage. ⁓ Marriage is the greatest thing in the world, but you have to work on it like everything else, buddy. ⁓
Surprising fact about you.
⁓ I don't know what's surprising. ⁓ It couldn't be. But the one thing that I have in my book, and you have to understand that, that may be ⁓ not known. Well, the first surprise effect, I'm married 45 years and still in love with the same woman. I have four daughters. ⁓ Beautiful, and it's just great girls. ⁓

Horst (47:55.836)
Wonderful. Those are the facts. ⁓ I'm a cancer survivor. ⁓ So is my daughter, so is my wife. We all had cancer. And I was given 10 months to a year, ⁓ 28 years ago. And that is, and of course I put that at the end into my book. Why did I put it into my book? Because ⁓ I felt, since I told stories around me and the business,
If I don't say that, I'm nearly lying and keeping something out. So I had to kind of express that experience because it's another experience that you have to, ⁓ that is life. Work is life. But if I would have taken that out, I would have said, so in the end I said, I have to tell that story too.
Thanks for sharing that. Favorite place you've ever been.
Well, ⁓ it is ⁓ favorite place that I go to now. Maybe there's a couple of that, a couple of similar things that is 6025 Winter Thrift in Sandy Springs. That's my house where my wife is. That's my favorite place. I travel still crazy, crazy amount. As I said, tomorrow I'm going to Singapore and so on. But it's still home. ⁓ It's the most wonderful place. I still, I also.
We also have a home in Germany still in the village where I grew up. I could name that too. We're going to spend the summer there. ⁓ Because ⁓ on the end, I'm the boy from that little village.

Chris Lesner
Is there anywhere in the world that you want to go that you haven't been to?
Yeah, Antarctica.
Wow. And last rapid fire question, what's the best advice you've ever gotten?
Well, from that melody ⁓ at the very beginning, don't go to work, ⁓ to work. ⁓ Never. ⁓ Because working, and guys, please hear that, I wish all young people would hear that. Working is a function. We have to function something. The chair in which you're sitting is functioning too. We should...
function for higher intents. Don't sentence yourself to be a chair. Have a higher intent in what you're doing in life. Doesn't matter what it is. I came to the conclusion when I was 16 and I wrote a story that I called for my school. I wrote an essay and I said, we are ladies and gentlemen, ⁓ servant ladies and gentlemen. I'm not a servant.

Horst
I'm a gentleman serving, ⁓ ladies and gentlemen. I was thinking then of my maître d' ⁓ who ⁓ when he approached the table, I knew I was told we're here to servants ⁓ to important ladies and gentlemen. I saw him approach the table at that time, I was 16, and I realized the guests were proud that he came to them. And I was contemplating as to why before I wrote my...
SA for the hotel school where I went once a week. And I realized ⁓ they were proud because he had defined himself as a gentleman. In that moment, the first time I realized that I define myself, it's not society, it's not the world, it's not the people around me, I define myself. Even if I would, I realized that they, ⁓ something very important for me.
that even if I was a dishwasher for the rest of my life, ⁓ I still can define myself as a fine gentleman. ⁓ It's still me. If I have a high intent in what I'm doing in life. And I can only tell, I hope young people, listen, define yourselves. Don't work, define yourself constantly. ⁓ Don't sentence yourself to be a chair or a thing. You're a human being.
that does things not just like a function, but with a higher intent excellence.
Wow. ⁓ Horst, this has been an honor to have you. I'm so excited for everyone in the world to be able to listen to takeaways from you. And I'm going to encourage them, obviously, to buy your book and go listen to more talks from you. But thank you for being with us.

Horst
Chris, delighted to be with you. All the best to you. I wish you great luck with your podcast. I hope it works out and that I know you will serve a lot of people well.
Yeah, thank you so much.