today on the servant leadership podcast we welcome Kirk Cameron a well-known actor producer and Advocate many of you may remember Kirk from his iconic role as Mike sver on Growing Pains but his journey from Hollywood to becoming a voice for Faith Family and servant leadership is truly remarkable in this episode Kirk shares how he went from being an atheist to A Jesus follower and servant leader he opens up about how his faith transformed his life and career leading him to focus on projects that align with his values he discusses his work in film his commitment to the Next Generation and how servant leadership has shaped his approach to life both in the spotlight and behind the scenes Kirk thank you so much for being here today oh man great great to be talking with you this morning I'm so excited obviously when when people think of you they probably think of an actor filmmaker they probably know you write some they know you speak some they probably know a lot about you but they might not know you um share with our audience a little bit of your journey of becoming famous if you will as at a young age yeah yeah it my my backstory as a kid growing up in Hollywood is is fun for me to recount because um well it it it it's so unlikely and I mean I didn't Chris I never wanted to be an actor in the in in the first place I and even to this day acting is not my passion in fact if I never acted again another day in my life uh I really wouldn't mind at all and I'm sure there's a lot of other people out there who would say Kirk we wouldn't mind either because you're not very good I actually wanted to be a doctor when I was a kid I love math I love science I love biology uh I I even liked a little bit of history and my father was a school teacher and so are my grandparents uh and and so education was always a big a big thing on our uh on our radar and acting just sounded like a just such a a flimsy uh you know crazy career path that that I never had in in mind and when I was nine years old my mom said hey we're gonna go down and see this talent agent because my friend has a a son who's on a show called Eight is Enough his name is Adam Rich and he was there with Dick Van Patton and and the whole family and and he was able to make some money doing commercials and TV stuff that that he could save up for college and so we're going to go down and try it and I was like come on I want to go play basketball with my friends I don't want to go be an actor I can't sing I can't dance I can't I can't do stuff like that and we went down and lo and behold she signed me up and I started working on McDonald's commercials 409 cleaner commercials Cheerios commercials fruit rollups commercials and then I landed the role of Mike SE on Growing Pains and honestly kind of load loaded the whole thing thing cuz my mom would pick me up from school I couldn't go play sports with my friends she had to brush my hair and put me in a nice little eyes o polo shirt kind of like the one you're wearing right now and tuck in my shirt and drive for an hour and a half in traffic to downtown Los Angeles and audition for stuff and I really didn't like it but I eventually learned to kind of like it and I I was doing all right and my mom said it was a really cool opportunity so when I landed Growing Pains I just was riding that train for about six seven years uh and a lot happened to me during that time that convinced me that maybe I should stick with the acting thing I I eventually married the woman that I met the woman that I ended up marrying uh and then I also had a massive worldview shift and that all happened during those years of growing pains and I'm so grateful for all of that as I look back on it now I mean honestly your journey is so fun uh from the outside I I know that it wasn't always easy for you to say you weren't you weren't uh you know this the the the Teen Tiger Beat centerfold in magazines plastered to to 14-year-old girls walls growing up you know I had my own growing pains for sure so H how did you see like you had that shift in mindset somewhere in there how did you see your faith come out and how did you see maybe was servant leadership even a thing in Hollywood well if it was I certainly wasn't aware of it I'm I'm sure that we could go to John Maxwell and we could go ask these guys that they were doing this long before I I was even you know doing anything but um at that time I didn't have any faith you ask how my faith came out I mean I I it wasn't like I was some closet Christian uh as a kid that eventually got bold when I was a teenager I mean my faith was in myself I didn't believe in God I was an atheist in Hollywood California up until I was about 18 years old and and proud of it um I thought that Jesus was part of a different Trinity uh the Tooth Fairy uh the Easter Bunny and God somewhere he was in there somewhere as this imaginary person that uh was born of a virgin and rose from the dead and it just sounded like cuckoo to me in fact when I was a kid growing up Christmas time was all about uh whether or not I would get a new surfboard that year living in California and uh and about Santa Claus and the cookies it had nothing to do with the Nativity I didn't even know who those three kings with the beards and the and the and the gold and frankincense and were let alone by a baby was in a little feeding trough so that didn't come into my world until I was 17 years old when I met a really cute girl on the set of growing panes and she invited me to visit her her family over the weekend and the address that she gave me to meet her at was a church and I was not prepared for what I heard that morning that really put me into a spin cycle and set me in a whole different direction philosophically I I mean you've been ever since then you've been leaning into it uh quite a bit I mean doing movies like Left Behind mov like fireproof uh getting involved in LIF Mark and and coming up with that movie after you saw the story like uh I mean it seems like it rocked your world yeah it did it did Rock My World um it did rock my world and it was really good that my world needed to be rocked my my my my my self centered me first know-it-all attitude needed to be uh punched in the face by truth and reality and I'm so thankful for that that that young lady and her father and the resources that he he gave me in the time that he spent to talk through some of my questions uh like what happens when we die what H what what what's out there when we step out of here uh is there really a heaven is there really a hell how do you even know what religion is right um I had so many questions and he was so kind to answer them as as good as he could and then and then he finally said Kirk you know what you know um asking me uh about about God is um really I'm happy to to talk with you but you need to go to God yourself I mean he's not just a a nebulous force or an idea he's not a figment of somebody's imagination he actually made your ears and he can hear you he made your eyes and he can see you so you you can talk to him and um he said you just got to go to him on his terms which is humility and Faith well as an atheist I didn't have either one and so uh I I had actually had some crazy ideas about being um well I won't even go into my crazy new age beliefs but but I eventually found myself praying in this in the driver's seat of my sports car parked on the side of the road thinking about the fact that one day I would die and find out if there's a God in the heaven and if there was a heaven I knew I wouldn't be going because I had essentially given the uh the proverbial finger to religion and even the existence of God and I thought man if this isn't all just a great big accident if life has meaning if truth beauty and goodness are are actually valid Concepts and not just uh imaginary constructs and that being kind and loving is actually of real value over hatred and evil then that that requires a moral lawgiver and a Transcendent moral law and that requires something outside of me and so I put all this together and realized that very smart people throughout history have believed in God and that opened the door intellectually for me to begin to examine the claims of the Gospel of the scriptures of the Resurrection compare that with all of the other claims and I came to the conclusion um that I had to get down on my knees and I ought to ask God to to help me and and that changed the trajectory of my life completely obviously all all of that Journey led to you then having a totally new outlook on life and it's interesting because a lot of what you're doing now is maybe wouldn't have happened uh without all of those experiences talk about what you're doing now to help kids learn about Jesus and and how you just see that playing out in in your daily life now well Chris uh one of the things I app appreciate about you is that you're you're not I I I I don't know why everyone doesn't come to this conclusion uh but eventually I think if you've got your eyes open and you're paying attention to what's going on around you like you do like you are you recognize that success in terms of financial wealth in terms of popularity power influence these these things are exciting these things are attract active but they're also devastating to people that don't have a higher calling to do what's good and what's right think of Lord of the Rings the the ring had so much power the ring has so much power that it corrupts the hearts of of men and so Frodo was able to grab a hold of this ring but even he knew that it needed to be destroyed because ultimately ultimate power corrupts absolutely right and and so we've got to get to something Beyond success and some people will call that significance or um you know some some some cause greater than themselves and for me I I began to see that I wanted my life to count in a significant way and that way ought to be fueled by gratitude not personal ambition and I have air in my lungs my heart beats at night while I'm asleep I have no idea how I got here and I fell in love and my wife and I have six children and we have an opportunity to push back darkness and amplify light and do good things for the benefit of other people for the honor of God for the flourishing of humanity let's lean into that and so I recognized that uh you know the time in The Hourglass is running out I'm 54 years old today while when as we do this interview I just became a grandfather and so I want to lean in to the Next Generation and so I've been writing children's books of virtue and encouraging children to find Value in humility rather than Pride we have an entire month devoted to Pride in this country where uh we understand from the Bible the book that built America the book that is the prerequisite to understanding the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the moral values of this country that made her so great that pride is the mother Vice that gives birth to every other form of wickedness why on Earth are we promoting Pride to children I get it when I'm proud of my kids for for doing something or doing a good thing I I I get that um I think there there's other words that we could use that would be more accurate but Pride gives birth to lust and greed and sloth and wrath and envy and every other one of the deadly sins and I want kids to understand that humility is where the treasure is I want to teach kids about love joy peace kindness gentleness faithfulness and self-control that's the fruit of the spirit working within your heart the spirit of of of God and um I want to teach kids how to love their enemies so as I've written these books I've gotten a lot of push back from library directors that have been infected with the woke mind virus that would rather have me show up dressed in high heels stockings and a skirt as a drag queen and read to their children about you know uh gay dinosaurs or something like that and so this has led to a lot of fun stuff in the news and to an event called see you with the library which attracted 35,000 people this summer uh simultaneously at their own public libraries hosting story hours where parents and grandparents come to the Public Library they sing like God Bless America they pray and they read books of character and virtue to their children that will lead to blessing and protection so that's the stuff I've been up to it's culminated in some more stuff like a kids TV show and a brand new book and we can talk about that stuff if uh if you want to yeah even talk a little bit what I guess one of the things that I love about you and Chelsea uh like you know behind the scenes you guys have had great influence on mine and my wife's life uh we love we love what you're doing but but talk a little bit about uh what you've done with Camp Firefly you know I think it's a great example of you and Chelsea could have just kicked back and done nothing with your lives right after being an entertainment and film and and you you've chosen to care for others and be be servant leaders well well thank you that that encourages me and that that that U affirms uh things that that that that really but fu in my tank you know I don't think I could have just sat back and done nothing uh you know because we lived in California it's really expensive out there you you got to work till you're like 90 just to afford uh gas in your tank uh we actually live in Tennessee now so it's a little easier on the on the checkbook and we're closer to our to our grown adult adult children K Firefly was something that my wife and I started when I was 19 years old uh she and I had just met we weren't even married yet but I was meading a lot of kids through the Make A Wish Foundation these are kids who are terminally ill with cystic fibrosis and cancer other other sicknesses and their wish through make a wish or Starlight was to come to the set of growing panes and meet the cast maybe take a picture and get an autograph well we wanted to do more than that uh we our heart went out to them and so we decided wouldn't it be cool if we could get the dads off work and get the whole family together and give them an all-expense paid dream vacation somewhere where they could make memories that would last them a lifetime and not just Disneyland but something more intimate something that would be more memorable and get them together with other families who could understand and empathize with what they were going through we called it Camp Firefly we held it in Georgia and every summer we invited six families from St judee's hospital um from hospitals in Texas New York North Carolina and and we had an all-expense paid 7day vacation with Mom's makeover Queen for a day dad's golfing lots of time around the campfire in the jacuzzi in the pool to talk and share stories we had Chapel Services we've got Hawaiian luau and Mexican fiestas uh bike rides through the aelia forests and just time for us to talk about the things that matter in life uh it's called Camp Firefly and we've been running this Camp hosting it as volunteers for the last 34 years uh 35 years now and it's one of the most important and uh beautiful weeks of our entire year so I think a lot of people listening to this they might find personal success in the things they're doing and and just be okay with that well what's the drive behind you and Chelsea deciding to be servant leaders and go care about others one of the things that my wife often said to my children uh there's a few few things you know um but you say please and thank you and if if you don't say please you don't get it if you don't say thank you you don't keep it that kind of stuff uh feel free to use that with your kids by the way um but other ones were um me misery others Joy that's a maxim that we ought to have written down somewhere or memorized if I focus on me self empowerment self-realization self centeredness self- self self me equals misery and you think of the most self-focused people in the world they tend to be unhappy people who just can't satisfy the me monster but others Joy is focusing on serving somehow brings Joy uh I got everybody calling me sorry about that um and we know that that's true Jesus himself said he did not come to be served but to serve he said it's more blessed to give than it is to receive and turns out it's true it's actually true and and I it's it's a daily struggle but I am that that's my morning prayer Lord make me a servant because it's in serving others is is where the treasure is it it seems like you've been given such a unique platform even these days uh I know you're hosting a show on TBN share share a little bit about that Journey uh and and what takeaways is all about sure thank you TVN was was one of those religious channels when I was a young man that I wouldn't you I wouldn't touch it with a thousand foot pole I mean they had guys with with really weird combover haird in in threepiece pinstriped suits with big diamond rings on their fingers and it was part of the religious route that I just thought was off the rails and and there still are plenty of religious people who are off the rails but TBN uh made a made a shift in their in their in just in in their programming and asked me to host a show where I could talk to pastors astronauts storytellers filmmakers songwriters athletes atheists um relationship experts and that turned into a TV show called takeaways on Monday nights on the trinity broadcast network that I've been doing now for 3 years and it is wonderful I I meet so many interesting people I get to talk with them and all of them are servant leaders all of them are people who are using their gifts talents resources and relationships to further the good to keep darkness and evil in check and it's done through so many different disciplines that it it it gives me great courage I love the variety of stuff here involved in share a little bit about uh one of the decisions you made to start a children's TV show more recently well after I read wrote my first children's book and was denied by over 50 woke libraries from being able to read it there and these are the same libraries that already approved drag queens coming to read children's books to to kids um we we pushed back so much that it became a national movement to restore wholesome story hours in libraries and we thought what's the next logical step well let's turn these books with great stories and characters into a TV show for kids and I was hearing things from parents like what happened to Mr Rogers where's the great TV shows for kids that help them process the difficult things going on in the world and today kids are dealing with crazy stuff that Mr Rogers never had to deal with although I I bet he had he had foresight and knew it was coming uh he dealt with things like racism and he dealt with things like divorce and helping kids process that but today kids are processing whether or not men can give birth and they're trying to process whether or not they're racist simply because they were born with white skin it's it's it's really in insane the things that are going on today and so we created a new TV show called The Adventures of Iggy and Mr Kirk and it's the show about me Mr Kirk raising a little 5-year-old iguana named Iggy and it's it's think of think of Mr Rogers Neighborhood only modernized with beautiful animation uh high energy hilarious dialogue celebrity guest stars coming in from former Disney shows like Good Luck Charlie and and others and we're teaching children about faith hope and love we're putting them to bed at night with stories that are going to teach them about kindness Joy faithfulness and self-control uh bravery and humility and others first and there's lullab and uh questions that kids get to to to uh ask of Iggy and Mr Kirk through the YouTube channel and so it's interactive and it it's just going to be a fantastic tool that we hope becomes a staple uh a staple tool in parents' toolboxes as they help their kids navigate this crazy culture I think one of the fun things that's just and I keep saying it but it's so fun to see you do this you're you're finding all these areas of culture that would be great to make a difference in and you're getting involved talk a little bit about American campfire Revival and what you were doing there what you have been doing cuz you're really helping people become better servant leaders there well thank you for for mentioning that American campfire Revival was something that was was birthed out of a very frustrating discouraging time for me several years ago after covid hit and Trump told everybody it's 15 days to flatten the curve stay home that turned into months and in California we were we were literally under house arrest by our governor we couldn't leave to go anywhere you couldn't go to church you couldn't go to get your haircut you couldn't go anywhere and understandably we didn't know what covid was all about but we all smelled a rat when the governor was at the French Laundry having dinner with all of his friends uh not having masks and then the weed shops were open the abortion clinics and the liquor stores were open but you couldn't go have communion on Friday night uh before Easter even though you were disinfected and and 25 feet away from the next human being and riots were breaking out in the streets and they're like we hear your rage your your rage is real uh go go go it was like what's going on and and so in my backyard watching the election Fiasco and then the new president come into office everyone was wondering what the first 100 days of the administration would be about and I said well well instead of just being on the defense and and watching the world crumble around us why don't we get on the offense as the family of faith and come up with our own 100 day plan and so I made 100 consecutive campfires in my backyard because I couldn't go anywhere and I went on YouTube I went on Facebook live and I said the scriptures say that if we humble ourselves and we pray and we seek God's face and we turn from our own Wicked Ways that he will hear our prayers he'll forgive our sins and heal our land well that's what we need right now so I invite you to join me and it was called the American campfire Revival we prayed we we admitted our faults and we looked to God to guide us into the future by trying to understand the backstory of America and what made this nation the free strongest Most Blessed country in the world in record time and you know what it comes down to it came down to Faith and goodness we've strayed greatly from those founding principles and every time we do we suffer and we're suffering now and that was my Hope was that we could look back to help us move forward to better days ahead in America well I know millions of people have seen that been impacted I know you went on tour uh how much did that have to do if anything with some of the new stuff you're doing now with with the book coming out born to be brave yeah well it's all it all sort of comes together um I'm so grateful that I I don't have a real job uh I mean I you know is actually it's funny I've often wondered what I'm going to do when I grow up I wanted to be a doctor but I ended up being an actor I wanted to be an atheist I end up being a Christian um I I I think I wanted to always stay say young now I'm a grandpa who thought mik sver would have a beard everything that good that has happened in my life was not a result of my own uh planning and and AR architecting God has always had better plans and so all of these things are coming together in a new book that I wrote called Born to Be Brave why because I find that there is a spirit of fear and timidity of an attitude of apathy complacency and even hopelessness and particularly within the family of Faith religious people on the the the the Bible Christian side of things many of them feel that there is this inevitable decline of culture that will result in a great ball of fire here on Earth because the Book of Revelation predicts it I think it does not I think that's a misunderstanding and the result has been this self-fulfilling prophecy that the people who can make the greatest difference in the world don't believe it's worth trying for the Long Haul because they think we're just postponing the inevitable and I wanted to throw my hat into the ring and say that's crazy we as God's faithful followers who have put our faith in his son Jesus who who know that uh God is good and he's working all things together for good for those who love him has a plan and he's given us a Birthright of Courage this isn't about um uh trying to follow religious rules this is about faith working itself out through love and if we do that with some steel in our backbone and a vision of Victory we can and will realign this nation and Any Nation with Heaven's values that leads to blessing and protection for Generations it's called Born to Be Brave how to be a part of a America's spiritual comeback and it includes everything I've been learning over the last four years about faith hope and love and putting that stuff into action through courage you always find yourself in these uh interesting places where there's a lot of controversy um things like what you're saying with with the book don't sound like they should be controversial necessarily uh but I know that there's a lot of controversy around it and some of some of the other things that you talk about um how do you see yourself live out a life of servant leadership amongst all this controversy and wanting to be bold while at the same time uh wanting to serve do those coincide do they conflict yeah it's hard right it's it's it's it's difficult I mean there there are easier paths that that we can all take especially if you're you know if you're a talented person or you're you've been resourced well with with with money or or relationships and you could just pursue a path of personal gain and ease and comfort which uh I mean I'm i' I've got a great cup of coffee and a and a and a pork butt on my Trager grill outside I'm planning on an enjoyable day but at the end of the day there are problems in the world and people who are suffering and our children are growing up into a world that is going to be dumpster fire if we don't own up to some of the mistakes that we have made and get involved and jump on the political problems with both feet and deal with the economic problems and the um the faith problems and the family disintegration that going on in our neighborhoods and communities we've got to do that stuff or we're just being irresponsible it's it's it's I would say it's it's morally reprehensible to say that you're patriotic or that you're devoted to the family and then just sit back and and and not look at dealing with problems that need to be solved and that's why I think I find myself in controversial areas is because I want to find out where there is a hurt and I want to heal it I want to find out where something's broken and I want to fix it uh I do that with my house I got a roof leak I'm not going to sit here uh I want to do that in my marriage if my wife's Le believe in me I better get on that and figure out what it is that I've done or what she thinks I did and when it comes to cultural things uh we've got issues that we have to deal with so I want to do what I can where I can to make a difference um Chris C C could I just drop a little Middle Earth wisdom on this topic from Gandalf the gry Gandalf often would say to Frodo who was upset about the evil in their time that it was not up to them to decide what evil they had to deal with it was up to them to decide how they were going to deal with the evil and he said this to him he said other evils there are that shall come for even Sauron himself is but a servant or an emissary yet it is not our task to master all the tides of the world it cannot be done but rather to do all that is in us for the help of these years wherein we are set uprooting the evil in the fields we know so that those who live after us will have clean Earth to till what weather they shall have is not ours to rule I think he's exactly right you and I cannot extinguish all the evil of the world but it would be irresponsible and reprehensive ible to ignore it and the suffering of other people but what we can do is do everything while we have breath in our lungs to uproot evil in fields we know in the world of tech in the world of entertainment in the world of finance and government and church and family where there are nefarious forces let's uproot them and expose them and you know by the way I've got more I've got more demons in my heart and snakes in my head that to then I could keep that keep myself busy with just that alone to not be selfish and prideful and all those kinds of things and that's why I need God's help and then I want to begin to heal my my family and my community and stting local and work its way out I think that is what we've been tasked to do so that our children and grandchildren those who live after us will have cleaner Earth to build their lives on and they'll know how to deal with the political uh economic spiritual and moral storms that come their way why because they grew up with a dad who had his eyes open paid attention and did what he could do to advance the good and a mom who valued the sacred role of motherhood and being a wife and taking care of her family and grandparents who didn't just spend the rest of their Sunset years collecting seashells on the beach but supported the the their children and grandchildren as they try to bring a little bit more of Heaven to Earth that's why we've got to get involved in messy places I think a lot of people are willing to talk about the messiness and anyone is willing to be critical of the messy places uh in society uh no matter where people are you bring up an in interesting concept uh that sounds almost like start with the closest concentric circles and work out how do you see that actually play out and what advice would you give to people who are like gosh I I want to do something but I I don't even know where to start yeah yeah well in my book uh born to be brave I I it's exactly what I try to lay out because I I've I've heard so many really smart people with values say things that sound really good you know I love listening to Jordan Peterson I'll listen to Dennis Prager I'll listen to to um uh you know a hundred other people on the right on the left in the middle um it's fun watching that show Middle Ground I don't know if you've seen a jubilee puts on this show and they've got people you know talking on both sides of of an issue and it's fascinating how many really smart people there are out there with completely different values um and what I have found is that the underlying presuppositions of a person are everything you know um someone once said um what good is it if you if you climb to the top of the ladder and then you discover that the ladder was leaned up against the wrong building uhoh right you you did a great job you built a great ladder and you climbed all the way up but it's the wrong building oh no so we've got to understand the ground we're standing on and what what I've learned is that you've got to start with your own heart and your own heart will deceive you if you are not submitted to the one who made you and and as an atheist that's impossible to understand uh but when I came to a place of saying God help me be the person you created me to be expose the the the the filth and the corruption and the deception that I've that that I've willingly brought on to myself and help me see clearly and do what's right and good I came to the conclusion that Jesus was right the best thing you could possibly do with your life is to love God with all of your heart all of your soul all your mind and all your strength and to love other people the way you would like for them to love and care for you and so the strategy's got to be first in my heart that's where I that's where I uproot evil and plant seeds of Truth and goodness and Beauty then in my home with my wife my spouse my my children then in my local community and that's where the most effective political strategies and policies take place is locally you can affect a lot lot of change locally much more so than you can by just looking to Washington DC work your way out through your church through your community Through The Works of your hands and your vocation to do as much good as you can and if you're successful if you're a leader you've got influence but it was said by a famous Dutch Theologian Hugo grodus in the 1600s he said a man cannot govern a nation if you can't govern a state you can't govern a state if you can't govern a county and if you can't govern if he can't govern a county if he can't govern his own town and if he can't govern a town he certainly can't govern his own family and a man who can't govern his own family uh is lost if he doesn't learn how to First govern himself and he can't even govern himself if he doesn't submit himself to God so it's got to start at your house and work its way up to the White House servant leadership must start in your heart move to your home to the works of your hands and then out to the halls of Congress it's like that Pebble in the lake that has concentric circles that work its way out it's a tiny Pebble but it can make a difference on on the shores of the entire Lake that's the way to get it done it's playing the long game and it's it's it's leading by example that's so good I I think there's so many good takeaways for people there uh to start with themselves and work out from there um I I want to hit you with 10 rapid fire questions where where you say just the first thing that comes to mind and there's there's no right or wrong answer yeah well in in the in in the public court of of opinion uh there there are plenty of wrong answers so I will try to be as as unfiltered as possible but uh it might be difficult for me all right go ahead hit me who's the first person you think of when I say servant leadership servant leadership um gosh my I'm well I'm going to think of Jesus I did not come to be served but to serve and uh he he is the leader of all leaders five words the most describe yourself man um this is crazy uh let's see um um undeserving uh but grateful um learning and uh deeply committed that's two words um but I as one and um hopeful favorite author or book I'm I'm struggling with that there's so many good books out there I I can't think of one um one that I've been sort of noodling on lately you have to help me with the author but um Animal Farm who was that that wasn't Orwell that was oh I'm blanking we'll go with that book we'll just go with the book yeah Animal Farm it's wow wow animal farm and and what we see going on in the culture today the irony you're not the first person to say that as a buck it's extremely popular um favorite movie favorite movie um It's a Wonderful Life is one of my very favorite movies um and here's the thing Chris I don't watch many movies I really don't want I don't even have a TV and I don't watch movies so when I do it's because my kids want me to and we watched some Matthew mccon movies recently and some Denzel Washington movies recently and I was like wow these guys are really good and they're like dad of course they're really good we just watched The Book of Eli and we watched um the free state of Jones with Matthew mccon and uh Interstellar was pretty cool too so um yeah I I like documentaries but uh it's wonderful life is certainly one of my favorites I'm looking forward to watching it this Christmas uh I need to pause on the 10 questions because isn't it a little ironic that given your background you you don't have a TV and you don't watch tons of film yeah yeah right you know what I I I feel like there's just so many real life things to do than to watch stories and live vicariously although I think there is a legitimate uh place and purpose for stories uh Jesus told stories storytelling is extremely powerful the best lessons I've ever learned really were in the form of stories told to me and that's why I want to write books and make movies but I got six kids I've got a grandchild I've got a Lao I've got a a Boston butt to roast for dinner tonight and and games to play so and bills to pay so I don't find myself playing much golf anymore or watching movies are are you allowed to answer the question of what's your favorite movie you've been in well yes so it's not left behind okay I'm a little I'm a little embarrassed um for a couple of reasons uh one because I don't think I'm really a very good actor and um I I I uh I I have some some some serious qualms about the theology in in the premise of the whole movie but uh favorite movie Fireproof might have been my favorite the movie about marriage that was produced by the Kendrick Brothers uh I also made a documentary called um Monumental which was very impactful for me when I took a trip to Plymouth Massachusetts and learned about our forefathers and for mothers the pilgrims wow okay okay back to the questions that's good favor favorite food favorite food well I've been a I've been on the uh living a carnivore lifestyle Allah Jordan Peterson and Michaela Peterson and hundreds of thousands of others for the last year and five months so my favorite meal is going to be uh a New York strip steak with um you know probably uh a hamburger patty next to it and maybe some lamb chops next to that with some fried eggs and uh and a glass of water love that favorite thing to do in your free time I love to be outside I try to spend more time outside than inside and so I love to go on a walk on a hike I love to to exercise and do I do that in various ways uh I love to Camp I love to fish so just just give me outside aw from screens and just let me get my let me smell the air and get my get my feet wet and my hands dirty give me a surprising fact about you well I play the Native American wind flute wow I bet you didn't wouldn't have guessed that one no that is a surprising fact I love that and it's it's it's probably surprising to people that that I I uh have been uh eating a a carnivore diet for the last year and a half no one really saw me as a guy who needed to to lose 100 pounds uh that what then they're right and then also that I'm I'm not a big fan of the Left Behind movie I met that surprising for a lot of people that's true the steak I knew because I've been with you eating steak but the the Left Behind I I did not know okay and that I never wanted to be an actor where's favorite place you've ever been favorite place with my wife uh anywhere but but the place that I think that we would we would both write down on a you know if we were playing the the game slate I think it is uh favorite place I think we would both write Italy and we went there on our honeymoon five years after we got married we went backpacking in the Hill Country of Italy and it was awesome where's somewhere you want to go that you have not been I want to go to Africa with my pastor he started digging water wells and transforming communities and and Villages over there and uh I just I'm he's just one of my favorite humans on the planet so i' I'd like to go there and uh I'd probably like to go to to Switzerland or or Austria with my wife I I heard that I hear that's just beautiful over there okay and finally what's the best advice you've ever gotten these ultimate you know choose one life principles I know I know I'm thinking of the Serenity Prayer I'm thinking of the you know uh man I do I go deep do I go funny where do I go here Chris give me one of both if you want yeah um I I made something up there's G Gandalf's got a lot of great advice and so we could just go with Gandalf or or a Founding Father um but there for people who who who are who who actually don't mind a little little work look up Psalm 118:8 that that's the actual Center verse of all the verses of the Bible and it's it's pretty Central to living a a significant and good life Psalm 11 18 ver8 but I'm gonna say this I've made something up on it and and I was like how do I deal with my own personal responsibility um and be able to deal with the big problems in the world that I I I personally can't control uh somebody once said this Chris they Saidi wake up every morning torn between two strong desires to savor the world and to save the world which makes planning my day very difficult I relate to that I'm like how can I enjoy the little things and then still recognize that the world is on fire and need and people need to to to help and I and I came up with these concentric circles and I said small medium large and and then really big and I said you know I'm wake up in the morning and Savor the small I'm going to savor this cup of coffee and the Roses I can smell in the garden in my backyard and the smile on my granddaughter's face I'm going to savor the fact that I I'm I've been married to my wife for 35 years and she hasn't left me thank you God and then I'm going to make much of the media that next size sphere of influence that I have and that is my work I'm going to give everything I've got to Chris in this podcast right now I'm not going to hold back and I'm going to just do all that I can to to do to to to advance what is good and right and true then I'm going to let go of the large when I watch the presidential uh candidate debate when I look at what's going on with the world economic Forum when I look what's going on uh with Ukraine and Russia I have to recognize okay I I'm not going to influence the billions of dollars that are going over to be a part of wars that should or shouldn't be in maybe if I was a Senator and a lawmaker maybe that would be part of my sphere of influence but right now it's not and so I'm going to let go of things that other people are deciding that I have no influence over and then I'm going to celebrate the cosmic the the largest circle of all is that uh where God dwells and he is The Sovereign in control of everything from the throne room of Heaven if God is working all things together for the good of those who love him and who are the called according to his purpose that I can say you know what it's okay I can Savor the small make much of the medium I can let go of the large that I have no control over and I can celebrate that God is in his heaven and that things are going to work out and the end of The Narrative is one that's going to make us stand up and shout and say Amen wow what a what a great note to end on in some great advice thank you for being a part of this thanks for sharing with our audience I'm sure they love to see behind the scenes of Mike sver and and get to know you a little bit better too Chris it's great to talk with you I so appreciate you and and the way that you're leveraging all of your influence and and um talking about the necessity for leaders to be servants um and uh that that's what I want to be so thanks for having me on your your program thank you for listening to this episode of the servant leadership podcast if you enjoyed what you heard please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below don't forget to subscribe and hit the notification Bell to never miss an update be sure to check out the servant leadership podcast. org for more updates and additional bonus content