Rich Lowry's Intro

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Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast, we're joined by Rich Lowry, editor and chief of national review and one of the

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most influential voices in American media and culture. For decades, Rich has helped shape the national conversation,

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leading a publication founded by William F.Buckley Jr. and dedicated to timeless conservative values. Under his

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leadership, National Review has expanded across print, digital, video, and

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podcast platforms, engaging millions with thoughtful commentary and debate. In this episode, Rich unpacks how

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conviction, clarity, and humility shape the way he leads in an increasingly noisy world. He shares how servant

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leadership shows up in media and politics, how to handle criticism with grace, and what it means to pursue truth

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in a culture of constant opinion. Rich, thank you for joining us on the

Welcome Rich Lowry

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Servant Leadership Podcast. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Uh, I am so excited to introduce you to our

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audience. Uh, many of them probably know you, but for those that don't, could you explain what National Review is?

Rich Explains National Review

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Yes. National Review is a media company devoted to conservative ideas and

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principles. We publish a print magazine, a website, all sorts of podcast, videos,

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etc. Originally founded as a magazine by Bill Buckley, William F. Buckley Jr., famous conservative intellectual in

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1955. So I've been going nearly 70 years here. Were very devoted to a certain set

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of ideas that we think are crucial to American greatness. Wow. And what does

Rich's Role at National Review

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your role specifically look like there? I'm the editor and chief. I've been here

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a very long time now. I started in the 1990s as a young guy, as a very junior

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editor, basically an intern, became a reporter in Washington for a while, and

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then was tapped by Buckley to begin editing National Review in

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1998. Now I'm editor-inchief. I don't directly edit the website or the print

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magazine, but have general editorial oversight of our our content. you're in

Shaping What Culture Looks Like

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a really interesting role because your work is helping shape what culture looks

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like. Uh part of it is reporting on it, but your team is also giving opinions and trying to get information out to

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people. Uh how do you feel knowing that you are part of shaping what culture looks like for decades? Well, it's a

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it's it's a burden and a responsibility, one that we feel very seriously. And we've inherited an incredible

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institution that was built by really committed and brilliant people. Bill

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Buckley foremost among them. But we've all kind of his standards suse

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everything we do. Uh so so we have a very specific kind of national view take on recognizable national view take on

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things. I hope that doesn't mean that we're predictable. I don't think we we are are always predictable. We have a

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lot of debate within our own pages. That's part of what we do because we think debate's important to establishing

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and reconfirming the truth, but we want to have an influence and we want to influence the culture. We want to

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influence politics and we've been doing it for a very long time. As a consumer, it feels like politics and news in

The Faster Pace of News Cycles

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general was moving at a certain pace in the 90s, a certain pace in the early 2000s, and now it feels like it's moving

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faster than ever. Just the amount of news cycles, if you will, or news that's hitting us as consumers. How do you feel

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things are moving and has it changed as much as it seems? Yeah, totally. So,

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when I started there was still just three broadcast news uh networks that would have the evening

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news. It was really important. You had to stop and and watch it because it influenced people. Now, I I basically

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don't know anyone who watches the evening news. So even if things were going on, you know, in that 24-hour

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interval between the news broadcast, there was no way to know about them except for a newspaper, which also you

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get once a day. So now you have um outlets that are publishing constantly.

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So there's constant demand for news and news makers want to feed into that. So

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they're making more news or saying or doing more things. So it sped up

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everything. It makes it more interesting and it in terms of our business, it's it's fantastic. You won a lot of news.

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One of one of the downsides besides substantively how horrified we were uh by it, no one was interested in Joe

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Biden and it didn't feel as though that much was going on. Obviously things were happening but kind of at a normal pace

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and obviously since Trump's inauguration we've been you know is it Star Trek or Star Wars? Maybe Star Trek where they go

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into warp speed. You know you see the little model Enterprise and it shoots off. We're We're in warp speed. Warp

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speed. How much content is actually being created by your team? A lot. I

National Review Content Creation

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don't know how to specify that, but we publish dozens of pieces on the website

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every day. We have a print magazine that used to be come out once every two weeks, fortnightly as it's called. About

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a year or so ago, we went monthly with the the print magazine. So it could be a little higher level and not try to keep

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up with the news so much because there are so many other outlets for that. And then we have several podcasts. I host

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host two of them. One of which is called the editors which is a basically a panel discussion show with our top writers.

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And we're also on YouTube publishing videos constantly. So, it's uh it's it's

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a great great mall of of different sort of um forms of content obviously that

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you can publish and promote the these days and we're in all of them. We talk a lot on this podcast about leadership and

Leadership Characteristics In Politics

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servant leadership. And it's interesting because you for the last multiple

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decades have had just a firsthand view of looking at some of the world's

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greatest leaders and some of the world's not greatest leaders. A little more the latter. Yeah. When you

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think through leadership and culture, what stands out when you think about leadership in politics? Well, it's it's

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tricky, right? Because everyone who's running for office, that's it's an

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unnatural act, right? It's it's not something you do unless you're really motivated to do it. And human nature

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being what it is, part of the motivation is going to be I want to be famous. I want to be influential. I want to be

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recognized. That's that's part of human nature. And almost everyone feels that to a certain respect, even if they're

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not running for office, right? What what's one of the worst things that that can happen to you? Being disrespected,

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right? So, prestige uh and respect they matter to all of us, but politicians

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more so. That so that's kind of baked into the cake. And that ambition is good because otherwise no one would do it,

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right? So, um that that's good, but then if that's all there is, that can be very

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bad, right? And and the question is what what h how grounded are you as a leader?

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Yeah. I looked to Abraham Lincoln perhaps, you know, George Washington as well, but maybe Lincoln is the foremost example of this. People tend to look at

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Lincoln as an accidental politician. No, he he ran for some office basically

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every other year of his adult life, right? He wanted this really bad when he went this through this period of

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depression for a while because he thought his political career was was over. So that mattered to him a lot, but

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it was grounded in something deeper, an ambition for the the country and and a

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commitment to to a set of set of ideals. So that's what that's what you want. You want an ambitious person. It has to be

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an ambitious person, but you want them grounded in in things deeper uh deeper

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than themselves and having ambition higher than than themselves. And with Lincoln and his wonderful words during

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the Civil War, you kind of see an apotheiois of that of that approach. And that's that's kind of the ideal. Not

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everyone's going to be like that. Most people fall short, but but that's that's what you ideally want. I mean, it's

Servant Leadership In Politics Today

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interesting because as you describe Lincoln, we talk a lot about servant leadership, and servant leadership could

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mean all kinds of things to all kind of people. Um, whatever it means to you, it sounds like servant leadership might

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have been played out well by Abraham Lincoln. Do you see servant leadership play out in politics today at all? And

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you don't have to name names just in general. Well, I mean, you look you look at Mike Pence for instance, right? And

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an ambitious guy. Again, you you don't become a congressman, a governor, and a vice president without having political

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ambition, but he has these these ideals that are more important to him at the end of the day than his ambition, which

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is his commitment to our constitutional system. So when he's asked January 6,

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2001, can you just, you know, change this electoral count? He's like, no, I can't do that. That's my not my role. My

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role is to honor the Constitution even when it hurts, even when when people who potentially can end my political career

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are going to be really mad at me. And he did it. So that that I think is is an example of absolutely servant

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leadership. He was there for some other reason just than himself. And it was a constitution. And obviously the the

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backdrop for for Pence is ultimately his commitment to his his faith. So if he takes an oath, he's very serious about

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it and he he trusts in God and that even if if something is politically difficult

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or seemingly ruinous, it's going to work out in the end or it's the right thing and or it's the right thing to do. So

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that that might be the most prominent example in in recent times for me. That's a great example. When when you

Servant Leadership Role In Media

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think through leadership and servant leadership in media and journalism, uh

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it feels like media and journalism might be more cutthroat than politics. Does leadership or servant

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leadership have a role in media and journalism? Of course. Well, servant leadership should have a as Christians should have

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a role in in everything, right? Whether you're a father or an older brother or

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whatever it is. But yeah, a lot of people are in media for exactly the the

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same reasons I said people are in politics for, right? Again, you don't get a t prime time TV show by accident.

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That's something you really want to want. You like your name in lights. Again, this is this is natural. The the

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great British journalist Malcolm Mugaridge who wrote a wonderful memoir

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of his time as a journalist called Chronicles of a Waste of Time. He he he wrote about how when he was got his

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first by line in a in a a newspaper and this is a long time ago, you know, he's

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he kind of saw the raw raw uh copy, he he just kind of he he rubbed his finger

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across his name. He could sort of feel the raised type and and that was that was really meaningful amalgam mugidge,

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you know, my name is out there now. So again, we all feel that it's natural, but do do you feel um are the things

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more important to you than than that or ground that natural ambition? Just just

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as in politics, that's that's the question in in media and in all other

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aspects of our lives. You you've had some amazing opportunities to interview and study

Rich's Approach To Interviewing

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some of the world's most prominent and recognized leaders. uh are when you're

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talking to them, are you learning from them or have you already studied so much

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and you're just there to really ask the questions that you think people want to hear responses to? Yeah, most most

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instances, unless you're doing a really deep profile, you're you're asking people to questions that that are in the

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news and to generate news. So, you during the George W. Bush

12:00
administration, we were part of an a number of, you know, o oval office meetings or or briefings. You want to

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come out of there with something that that is going to generate headlines just because you're in the news business and

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if it generates headlines, it's inherently news and people being interested in what you you're doing as part of journalism is inherently good.

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So that's that's usually what you're what you're looking for. And unless you

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developed a friendship or again you're doing some really deep profile the sort I usually don't do you're not you're not

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getting so much into uh what makes them tick or getting in getting things that are lessons that are going to affect

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your own life. You also have gotten into writing books. Talk about why that was

Rich's Approach To Writing Books

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and share a little bit about your books. Yeah, I don't recommend writing books to to anyone.

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There's some people really good at it, incredibly prolific. You know, William Buckley Jr., I think, wrote wrote 40

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books. I'm a slow writer. I find it extremely painful with a few exceptions.

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The the thing about writing is it's hard to write. Writing depends on thought. So, if you completely thought something

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out, writing is very easy. And uh incredibly brilliant people, again, like William F.Buckley, you would sometimes

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write a newspaper column in 15 minutes. there there's no way you could tell me my life depended on it and I I probably

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couldn't write a column in in 15 minutes, but there have been some exceptions. When my late mother died of

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Alzheimer's several years ago, I was going to write a column about her uh you know after she she passed away, but you

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know there things to do when when someone passes away. So I I didn't write it till sever day several days later.

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But I thought about it a lot. So I literally I I sat down I remember as a a little step in a bedroom in a house

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where I was and I wrote it in 15 minutes because it's all there. Most of it's it's not there and you're sort of figuring out as you go. So even so

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writing a column can be painful but writing a book you know which is 50,000 100,000 words and just a grinding

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task. The advantage of a column there's a deadline. You got to do it by that deadline. So you do it by the deadline.

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a book. Yes, there's a a deadline, but it's not like you need to file 600 words every day to get to this deadline. It's

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you need to file these 100,000 words a year from now. So, there's always procrastination. You're always behind

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your deadline. If you're like me and you have a lot else going on in terms of your career, it's difficult to make

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time. So, it's a it's a painful process, but it's a gratifying one. and and you can make a big statement in a book in a

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way you can't with a with a column but it's it's not a task undertaken uh

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lightly as Churchill I'm going to butcher the quote there's a famous quote you know every book project starts as

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the easiest thing in the world and by the end by the end is recognized as totally impossible right and that that's

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how I've experienced my my books so you've written a lot about American values cultural change when you think

Today's Cultural Change - Hopeful or Hopeless?

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through today some people are thinking the world is ending. Some people are thinking that there's tons of hope. Um,

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what are you seeing on either side where you feel like things are going really good or we need to look out? I mean,

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it's both. It's always both, right? We're in the this fallen world, but there's always cause for hope. I've been

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listening um to to a podcast about the year 1000, you know, in Britain, and uh

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there's a lot of hope. some people thought is the the millennium and Christ was going to return, but other people point out we got these Vikings in here

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and it doesn't look good. So, it's both. It's it's always it's always both. So, what's been most discouraging just in

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general in terms of national views trajectory as well is on the culture we've lost so much ground, right? We we

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tonally uh um lost on what Bill Buckley really quaintly now called the Playboy

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philosophy which has um you know created this this massive uh uh industry of uh

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smut that's incredibly lucrative and no one's ever going to do anything about. You know, we won on on row and abortions

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number of abortions has declined uh in some in some places, but that that is

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going to be now we got another 30-year effort to try to convince people that abortion is wrong and should be more

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restricted than it is now. We we've had debates. One, I think we're winning now

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on, you know, trans issues that if if we just said 10 years ago, we were sitting

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here and I said, "Oh, we're gonna have a debate over whether boys can compete in girls sports." You say, "You're crazy,

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right? That's that's national suicide, right? Everything we've totally descended, you know, into a ring of hell

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if that's what we're doing." But we are now. We're actually winning that debate, which is which is good. So the culture has been distressing and the fact that

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every elite institution basically in the culture they always been kind of against conservatives and conservative values

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but more so now than ever although I think we're making some progress there. Now the the upside is if you're an

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American we're we're still incredibly rich. We're still incredibly powerful. We still have um people American people

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are still extraordinary. uh civil society. It's weaker than it was, but it's still incredibly strong in a lot of

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important respects. And we're making progress on a number of these u issues.

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Uh a lot of them thanks to Donald Trump and how aggressive his administration has been on this front. But my my

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attitude, you know, no battle is won, no battles uh totally lost, and you just

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have to be keep fighting, keep standing up for the for the truth. And that that's the the ultimate advantage we

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have is the truth. And uh um the truth doesn't win out naturally in and of

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itself. People have to fight for it. Um but if you're fighting for it and uh fighting for it compellingly, I think

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that there is a natural instinct people to to rally to it and recognize it.

National Review's Perspective On Pursuing Truth

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in this pursuit of truth. Um you have people especially on both sides of the

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political aisles who feel like they're pursuing truth. And from your standpoint

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as reporters uh and media people, journalists, you're coming in and trying

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to extract truth and then share it with people. How do you do that well without

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letting preconceived notions or biases come in? And is that hard to do? Well,

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we're different because we we have preconceived biases and and that's the name of our game. That's part of what we do, right? So, we're not we're not being

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fair-minded in that sense that we need to write an AP story. The way the AP never does it, by the way, but write a a

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AP story. You know, this is point B, point A, and this is point B and this is what the people defending point A say

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about point B and this is what point B. You know, we we don't do that u kind of wire copy. We do do some news stories,

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but but we're we're an advocacy organization at the end of the day. Now, where it it what you're getting at comes

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in for us is one, we want to be factual, and there's some facts that are going to

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hurt. You know, they're not they're not going to be favorable to your case. You need to acknowledge them, not deny them, not distort them. And also, always give

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the best side. A lot of what we do is just arguing with the other side, but argue with the best arguments uh uh from

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the best points from the other side. Don't create straw men. Don't say come up with things they're not saying because they're easier to attack. Engage

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w with their with their best people and their and their best arguments. And you should be confident in doing that if you actually think that you ultimately

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you're grounded in in the truth. And and we do have that confidence. It it must be hard to uh share your

Keeping Team Morale High

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perspective when things are clearly not right. and and I see all the time uh

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articles and and news pieces coming out from your team where you are acknowledging really tough circumstances

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of things that probably you hoped went better. Um how do you how do you keep morale high uh on a team when people are

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having to write things where they realize, oh man, this is just not going to go over well? Yeah. So, we're kind of

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a different organization in some respects. Maybe that's been a a theme of everything I've I've said, but the

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people here, it's it's not like they're sitting in cubicles and that they're they're here to earn earn a salary and

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uh work 9 to5 and are looking to do the next thing. They're all here because they deeply believe in the mission. So

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even when things are depressing or seem to be going the wrong way, it's

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encouraging to be among like-minded people and encouraging to be putting your shoulder to the the wheel in a way

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that that you hope is going to make some difference, a little bit of difference, you know, whatever it is. So you're

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still you're fighting, you're engaged. So it's better when things are going better, obviously, but it's it's not as

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though everyone's ready to quit when things the wind is against us. And again, when you're an institution that's been around 70 years, the wind often

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times has been against you and you have that institutional memory of

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experiencing that and and enduring it. National Review and you personally have

Dealing With Failure and Criticism

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come under a lot of fire just throughout decades as any organization would that's that's in public limelight. Uh how do

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you deal with failure or unexpected challenges or people just coming at you so hard? Well, when you when you fail,

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um when when you make a mistake or an error, you just you acknowledge it. That's that's the uh that that's the

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formula we've we've always had. We had a writer really messed up the the Covington case that um you know, the uh

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controversy over the protests on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. And as soon as we realized it, took it down,

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explained, apologized. I did like a Facebook chat. come at me any questions, criticism you have. I did calls with

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people. So that that uh you transparency and when you made a mistake, not trying

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to to hide it or or minimize it because sometimes you're going to make bad mistakes. We're in we're journalists were trying to react in real time. You

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try to be careful about that, but sometimes you're going to mess things up and you acknowledge it. And then there's

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criticism. you know, you you you welcome um usually when the the left is calling

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us names, it's great, you know, now bring it on. Now, criticism from our own side, people on the right, is is

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inherently more painful, but that is also um you there are a lot of divisions

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on the right now. It's very contested. What What is conservatism? Is has conservatism succeeded or failed or how

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can it succeed in the future? These are all legitimate debates and we'd prefer that there, you know, not there weren't

22:46
arrows flying internally within the right, but it's it's always been the case over the last hundred years there

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are on a certain level, maybe more so now than than before. And we prefer if people weren't calling us names that we

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we consider friends or semi friends, but that's that's part of the business. So, personally, I I don't particularly like

23:04
criticism. No, no one does. But my attitude is I I write so harshly about so many things and so many people, you

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know, every other day that I I should be able to to put up with some of it myself. And inevitably I do, whether I

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like it or not. We we have all these people listening who I'm guessing want to make a change

Encouraging Others To Use Their Influence

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or make a difference whether it be in their local communities, maybe it's national communities, maybe it's

23:30
globally, whatever it is, uh everyone has some level of influence. when you

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are writing and obviously you know you have influence because you have millions

23:41
of people who follow and read your content right so that's a little bit different but how do you encourage other people to get into making a difference

23:47
in their community or nationally or around the world yeah first of all

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you're going to make the most difference in the um in your community right that's where you can have the most direct

23:59
impact that's where you know more more real people are going to be affected in

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real ways is by what you say or what more importantly what you do as you sort of extend out it gets harder you know in

24:11
terms of the nation in terms of the the the globe. So, you know, what what I write about the latest national

24:17
controversy is not going to feed anyone, right? Um it's it's it's not going to

24:22
rehabilitate housing or, you know, help people recover from addiction. And these are all things that you could really do

24:29
in in your community, but it's very hard to do at a national level. Certainly not doing what what I do. So, I I have a

24:36
certain kind of influence, but I'm not sure it's more important than, you know, someone volunteering in their soup

24:42
kitchen and a and a a church at 10:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning. How do you

Constructive Ways To Engage In Debate

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think people should engage in debate on things? Even if it's not politics, just

24:52
whatever. How do people how what's the right way to engage in debate? Yeah, it's a great question. It's hard, right?

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Anyone who's married knows this. This is very hard. And often the answer is don't engage in debate.

25:05
So I would take it at the highest level the way we do it again you know be fierce be true to what you believe but

25:12
give the other side the the best arguments and and be civil. Don't gratuitously I mean we try to be

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entertaining and wait witty and uh part of that is is uh you know being very

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harsh sometimes but uh not being gratuitously in insulting you know that that doesn't doesn't achieve anything.

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And then in terms of your your personal, you know, going going around day by day,

25:36
generally I say just avoid political debate, nothing's going to be achieved by it. But if you don't, you know, a

25:44
acknowledge that the person you're engaging with, even though you think they're might be desperately wrong and

25:50
ill-informed and maybe even malicious, just try to give them the benefit of the doubt and see that that there's at least

25:57
a twisted version of truth or morality that this person is beholden to and

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trying to defend and and realize that you're probably not going to convince them. But the best thing you can do is

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put a a good uh face on on your side and convince them that you're not hateful,

26:14
you're not nasty, you know, you're not confrontational. Now, we all when you get an argument, you know, your your

26:20
emotions get up naturally, but that that'd be that'd be my advice.

Approaching Tough Conversations

26:25
It's interesting and and your response makes me just think of of the concept of

26:30
debating and how funny it is because you're right. Most times you go into a conversation regardless of if it's with

26:35
a spouse or over something political or whatever it is and you're not going to convince the other person u because

26:43
people are coming at it um so just levelheaded from their own mindset and

26:48
with their own experiences. What do you think the right way is to approach uh

26:54
conversations? Is it right to be so level set or should you be open more open-minded? How how should people

27:00
approach tough conversations? Yeah, it kind of depends on the nature of the the conversation, but when when

27:08
it's when it's politics with a stranger, um you know, it'll it'll happen that I

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uh you know, I give a speech somewhere and a kids come after come up afterwards

27:18
and they're progressive and they're really programming on on something, but just just be being open, not get not get

27:26
personally um not taking any of it personally um and and listening. I mean

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that's that's I think the best mode. Now none of us necessarily going to achieve that all the time because again your emotions get into it. You you can feel

27:39
things personally but I find generally again this

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um goes back to partly being a married man. When you get angry you're probably

27:50
in the wrong. So that's a good sign if something hurts you and you're like ah

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they have a good point. That's when you're you start to raise your voice or start to to shut down the other person.

28:01
So, so t take that as try to take that as very hard to do in the moment as a sign. Well, maybe this means I I should

28:07
listen more rather than than getting angry and trying trying to overtalk this person. But again, that's that's it's

28:14
easy to give this advice when we're not having an argument, right? But if you started challenging me in ways uh that

28:20
that offended me, I would not follow my own advice probably right now. But at least it's good good advice in the

28:26
abstract. Thinking back to when you became editor-inchief, what leadership

Major Leadership Principles Learned Since Becoming Editor-In-Chief

28:32
principles do you wish you would have known now 20ome years later leading such

28:39
a large organization? Yeah, that's a that's a great question.

28:44
I was 29 years old, so it was uh it was terrifying. And I was working for for

28:50
Bill for Bill Buckley, you know, this figure I I held in in awe. So I I guess

28:56
it would have been being a little less um daunted um realizing that things that

29:03
felt like really important in the the day-to-day or the moment really weren't.

29:09
And it's kind of the direction that you set and you go in that's more important than than any other particular little

29:16
things. you know, Roger Als, who's had his had his flaws, obviously we all know about, but also was a many respects a

29:22
great leader of Fox News, always said, you know, don't sweat the small stuff. Um, don't don't be around negative

29:28
people. And I I think that those are, you don't let other people's negativity drag you down. Those are really

29:34
important um pieces of advice. But I had a lot of sleepless nights that I now realize I should have slept slept more

29:40
soundly. It it is an interesting concept because as people are listening to this in their

Dealing With Stress

29:46
own regard they're dealing with all kinds of stress and everyone handles stress differently. Uh some of the stuff

29:52
you're dealing with is so timely when it needs to get out or uh when things need to happen. How have you found the

30:00
ability to deal with stress over all of these years? Yeah. So, it's not stressful in the

30:07
sense that, you know, I'm um I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal

30:12
about this figure skater in which he's trying to do these triple and double axle. That's that's really stressful,

30:18
right? And you're you've practiced for years and years and years and you have this one, you know, three minutes in a

30:23
competition. That that's stressful. And that the part of what the article was pointing out was that they realized it

30:29
took her a long time to get over making terrible mistakes in all these competitions. and she realized her heart

30:34
rate was up and she couldn't control it and she's doing this narrow neurotherapy I think they they call it to kind of

30:39
control think about that and be able to control it. So it's not stress at that level nor am I running a nuclear plant

30:45
you know where uh it's going to be a meltdown if if if things things go wrong but just over time I think experience is

30:52
important. So, I've gotten used to to things happening quickly and needing to get copy out quickly such that if it's

30:59
not happening um and there's more time, I'm a little bored. So, you get you get kind of kind of used to it. But, there

31:06
are things that happen where um you got to comment on something really quickly.

31:12
You might have arguments internally about what you're going to say about it and um and and you just gota got to

31:18
decide. you know, some people are going to be really unhappy and um there's nothing to to do about it. So, again,

31:25
once you've been through that a fair amount, it's less it's less daunting, but it it doesn't mean it's not uh it

31:33
isn't it isn't kind of stressful. It is stressful in the the moment and and

31:38
there's kind of no um there's no there's no getting around it. All right, I want to hit you with 10 rapid fire questions

10-Rapid-Fire Questions

31:46
where you just say the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. Who's the first person you think of when I say

31:52
servant leadership? Jesus. Five words that most describe you.

31:59
Disorganized. Um, modest, more or less.

32:06
Um what is what what's a a good way to say

32:11
um there should be one word of this but very interested in history pmical

32:18
argumentative um what what do we have is that like like four that's good yeah Yankee fan oh

32:26
okay favorite author or book Huck Finn I think is the greatest American novel and

32:33
Anything by Mark Twain is uh incredible. Favorite movie? Blues Brothers. Favorite

32:41
food? Italian. Pasta. Favorite thing to do in your free time? Read. What is a

32:48
surprising fact about you? Uh, what would people be uh surprised by? I can I

32:54
can really lose my my temper um more than people um might think. All right.

33:00
Favorite place you've been. the old Yankee Stadium. That would have been cool.

33:07
Place you want to to visit that you have not been before? India. Wow. All right.

33:13
And finally, what's the best advice you've ever gotten? Uh probably my my

33:19
dad. Just just saying I mean it's not it's not really um stunning advice when you think about

33:26
it, but always just do your best, you know. And so, so there is a, you know, a

33:32
challenge in that. Make make sure you're doing your best, but also, you know, if if it doesn't, if it doesn't work out, you've done your best. Do your best.

33:39
Love it. Well, Rich, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We're going to

Closing

33:45
drop a lot of links in for people who want to follow you, but anything that you want to tell people of the best ways

33:51
to follow you and the work you're doing? Thank you. Yes, very easy. Nashreview.com and the editors podcast.

33:58
You can find us and me in both of those places. Awesome. Well, thank you for

34:04
being here and I'm glad that our audience was able to learn from you today. Awesome. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you for listening to

34:11
this episode of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a

34:18
comment below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit the notification bell to never

34:23
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