Ryan Leak's Intro

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Today on the servant leadership podcast, we welcome Ryan Leak, a best-selling author, leadership coach, and

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sought-after speaker. Ryan is a leading voice on risk-taking, growth, and leadership transformation. He challenges

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leaders to step outside their comfort zones and embrace failure in order to thrive. His book, Chasing Failure,

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reveals how the greatest leaders take risks and use failure as fuel to achieve their biggest goals. Instead of seeing

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failure as something to avoid, Ryan shows how it can be the key to innovation and lasting success. His

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latest book, How to Work with Complicated People, equips leaders to navigate the everyday challenges of

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working with others. In this episode, Ryan shares powerful insights on unlocking potential both in yourself and

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in those you lead. If you're leading at any level, this conversation will challenge the way you think about failure, success, and the impact you can

Welcome Ryan Leak

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make. Ryan, thank you for joining the Servant Leadership Podcast. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here, my friend. I've

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told you this already, but I am personally so honored to have you on because I love your work. Oh, thanks,

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man. Some people call you a speaker, some people call you a coach, a lot of people call you an entrepreneur, some an

Ryan's Journey to Become a "Speaker-Preneur"

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adviser. like you you have all these different titles people throw when I hear your name. I know. I know. I made

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up my own a couple of a couple of months ago. I made it up. Speaker prneur. I

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think that about sums it up. So, how how did you end up becoming a speakerreneur?

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What is what's the trajectory to do that look like? You know, it it is a lot of

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people want to get in like the speaking business. It's hard to get in. I I think you have to almost be like invited in. I

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think you almost have to have something of value to say you did something, you learned something, you've been through

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something and people say, "Oh, I want to hear more about that." And my avenue was

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actually through church. I was speaking at a church in San Francisco and a woman

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came up to me afterwards and she said, "You know what? If my whole team heard that message, I think it would add so

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much value to our organization. would you be willing to come and share that message with uh my company? I actually

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own the company across the street. I was like, "Oh, um, sure. Yeah, let's figure that out." And we started talking about

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what I would do for an hour. I'd never done anything like that in my life. She goes, "Do you think you could do our staff development day for eight hours?"

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And I said, "Well, sure." Why did I say that? I have no earthly idea why I

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volunteered that I could never done anything like that before in my life. But that was the start of of my speaking

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career. And so from there, people in churches kept asking me to come to their companies and it kept going well. And so

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those companies would tell their friends about me and and here we are. That's such an interesting dynamic because now

Speaking to Corporate Boards vs. Church Leadership

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I mean how that has played out fast forward to today. You're speaking at

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major conferences. You're speaking at mega churches around the world. You're speaking at some of the top companies,

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Fortune 500, Fortune 100 companies. What's the dynamic look like when you're in a boardroom with some of industry

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leaders versus megaurch speaking to tens of thousands of people? You know, it it's it's somewhat the same for me. It

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took a while for those things to become um synonymous, if you will,

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but I'm just always trying to add value to people's lives. So, in some way, shape, or form, if I'm at a church, I'm

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trying to add value to people's lives. I'm trying to get them to think about their faith. I'm trying to get them to think about their relationships. I'm trying to get them to
think about their

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purpose. And I'm really doing the same thing in corporate America at an event. I'm going, "All right, how can I add

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value to their lives?" I'm I'm getting them to think about their relationships. get them to think about, okay, how can I be a better leader? And and my thing is

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do a good job. If I if I can if I can show up and

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give my absolute best, I'm not trying to be better than another speaker. Uh I'm trying to be the best speaker Ryan Leak

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can be. And that's by adding as much value as I possibly possibly can. And so if I go to a church, I say, "Hey, what

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what have you guys been talking about that has been adding value to the people that come to your church?" And I try to

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get in line and make sure that my message has alignment with what has already been talked about. I do the same

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thing in corporate America. I say, "Hey, what are the songs y'all have been singing? What are your mission? What are your values? What are you what have you

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been trying to get your people to think about? What are some of the behaviors that you wish you could see more?" And

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then I try to align my messaging with those with those values and mission

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statements and vision statements. And so I'm not making things up, but I'm trying to I'm trying to come alongside

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organizations. I see myself as a strategic partner to that organization and they are loaning me 30 minutes, 60

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minutes with people and they're trusting me with their stage. And so I take that very very seriously and just have a ton

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of fun doing that. And so I think if you can be able to come alongside an organization, add value to them and add

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value to their people, um I think you can have a a pretty successful career. I know when you get in those environments,

Background on "Chasing Failure"

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you have all kinds of different things that you're helping coach people through and talk them through. Uh some of the

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stuff that I have been impacted by personally um from your work is some of the chasing failure stuff. And I know

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you're helping people take risks, be better leaders. How did all the chasing failure stuff come up? Yeah. So, uh my

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wife and I got engaged and married on the same day. I I planned a surprise wedding over the course of two years and

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we ended up going on a TV show, Queen Latifah show where my wife surprised me, had me connected with Kobe Bryant. And

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so in the process of getting ready to meet Kobe Bryant, um I actually panicked. I'm like, what are we going to

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talk about? And then I just thought, man, if if if I was in the NBA, well, then we could we could talk about work. And so I I played all I played college

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basketball and I was an all-American at a D3ish school. People don't school is so small. It is definitely D3ish. And

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but I I never pursued professional basketball. I pursued professional development. And so I started getting

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back in all American shape uh to to get ready to meet Kobe and try to make a run

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at, you know, joining an NBA roster. And I just thought, man, you're going to fail. I realized that pretty quickly.

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Like there's levels to this thing. Like I'm very good at basketball, but I'm not very NBA. And so, um, I realized I was

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talking myself out of being brave. And one of the things I realized is that most people's best ideas have never

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actually come out of their mouth because they had a meeting with themselves and talk themselves out of having bravery to

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do it. And so, I just decided I wanted to be one of those encouraging people. The word encourage means to put courage

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inside of somebody else. That's my life's mission, to give people courage. So, I decided I needed to do that for

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myself. I had to put courage inside of myself. And so that day I started a documentary called Chasing Failure where

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I asked myself the question, "What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?" And when I answered that question, I said I I'd be in the NBA. And so that's

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what me and Kobe talked about. And so long story short, I started reaching out to NBA teams and said, "Hey, will you

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let a complete stranger try out for your basketball team? I'll probably fail, but what if I don't? There's only one way

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for us to find out, and that's for you to let me try. I'm 6'3, 200 pounds and looking for failure. Sincerely, Ryan

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League. And uh I was told no by the first four teams. The fifth team said,

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"Yeah, let's do this." And that was a Phoenix sign. So I fly to Phoenix and spoiler alert, I failed. And it was one

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of the best days of my life. And since then, I've become a failure enthusiast. I like to see it like this. Every single

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successful person that you look up to, read about, follow on the internet, listen to their podcast, subscribe to

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their YouTube channel, they all have the same thing in common. They've all failed. Yet, we've all been taught to

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steer from the very thing that made them who they are. I like to say we all should go to failure school. It has

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lessons that success can never teach. And so, uh, my son missed a game winner

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a couple of months ago, and I ran on the court and celebrated him like he hit it.

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And everybody's like, "Why are you What's wrong with you?" Like, "Why? Your son missed." And I said, "No, he didn't.

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My son's willing to take shots that most kids aren't willing to take." He took a three-pointer and he could have taken a

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layup to tie the game. He said, "No, it's winter. Go home." I said, "Yeah, I admire bravery in my house." They don't

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have to be a winner. They have to be brave. And so, so I just encourage people to be one of one of those

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leaders, one of those team members that puts themselves out there. that they're willing to take risks. You should be

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willing to fail things that most people are too afraid to try. I've learned that when you do that, you find yourself a

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lot further in life and in your career than if you just uh settle for the status quo.

Advice For Others About Chasing Their Dreams

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It's so powerful and it sounds so easy to say, but it clearly isn't easy to do

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because so many people aren't doing it. How do you help people move from not being brave and not chasing failure to

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chasing some of the wildest dreams that God put in their heart? Yeah. You know, it's I think one of the biggest

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challenges that people have is is is dealing with the unfamiliar. Pushing past the mental

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barriers of like, oh, I'm I'm good at this. The reason people don't try stuff is because they like looking good. They

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went to school for four, eight, 10 years to to get a nice degree on a wall and

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they have a title and they look a certain way. And so it's like, you mean you want me to try something where I

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could look stupid? You want me to try something where I might need help? You want me to try something where I might actually have to use the terrible phrase

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that I never want to say out loud. I don't know. We don't want to look dumb.

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And so people are like, no, no, no. So, so when we talk about change, when we talk about trying something different,

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it's like what we're really saying is you're putting yourself out there, it's it's really a call of vulnerability that

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people don't want to do. And so, the way I coach people to get past it is to say, hey, um the reality is is the world is

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changing. Are you? If you don't, you will become

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irrelevant. And so there's there's no version of your life that isn't

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risky. Staying the same is just as risky as trying something new. So you might as

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well move forward in the future because if not, then you're actually surrendering

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uh your future to accidental living. I tell people all the time, if if you're not intentional with your today, you're

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going to get a future tomorrow that you have to deal with that you don't get to control. But if you're intentional about it going, "Hey, I'm I'm actually going

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to learn something new." What are you doing? You're preparing for the future. So, I I love to tell people, "Hey,

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here's the deal. You're going to try some stuff this year." And guess what? It's not going to go well. It's not going to go well. But guess what? You're

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going to get lessons that other people won't get because they're not even willing to fail. They're not even willing to get in the game. So, as long

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as you're getting in the game, I automatically think you're winning. The other thing I encourage people with is

Learning From Your Failures

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um as long as you are learning from your failures, you are not failing. Here's the good news. You could

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have failed five years ago. Okay? You bring up a failure from five years ago. Well, I can go back. We can get get in a

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a time chamber, okay? And we're going to go in the back. We're going to go we're going to go in the past and we're going to look at that failure and go, "Well,

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what can we learn from that?" Well, now a dark day just became a bright day because we're learning from our

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failures. And so as long as you're learning from your failures, you're actually never failing. You can always

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go back and get a dub as long as you're taking lessons from that. So those are a couple of the ways that we try to help

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people uh reframe their missteps, mistakes,

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setbacks, and failures. And sometimes people think that this was one of the worst times in my life. And I'm well

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actually it might have given you some of the best lessons that can help you lead to a better life.

Does It Get Easier Over Time?

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I love that perspective. Do do you feel like it gets easier over time or never

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gets easier? That's a great question. You know, we're always at my company, we're always trying

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stuff. It I will say it does get a little easier

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because you're you're here here's here I wouldn't even say easier. I think it is always hard.

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I think what I would say is the rewards get better from chasing failure. You

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start to go, you chase failure long enough, you wake up one day, you're like, actually, this is actually helping

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us move forward. There are lessons I've learned over the last 5 years that so

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many people have not because they're just not willing to try anything. So, there's things that we

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understand about uh writing books. There are things that we understand about social media. There are things that we

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understand about uh communication in keynotes and events that well most

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people don't know because they were never willing to put themselves out there. So the fact that we're

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consistently trying brand new things, you know, we take some L's, but we've

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gotten to quite a few W's as well. So, uh, we tried something brand new last

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week. Um, it got a million views on Instagram. We I can't believe

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it. Absolutely can't believe it. Uh, but it totally worked. And I remember

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sitting in Nashville, Tennessee with my videographer and we were talking about

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this plan. We're talking about this video and he was going, "I don't think it's going to work." I go, "I don't think it's going to work either, but

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I think we should just try it because it's like what what do we have to lose? People just don't look at it. That's what we have to lose. Oh, we're so

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scared about that. And then this week we're going to post some things that will definitely not get a million views. I guarantee you they won't. So, it's

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being willing to just say, "Hey, guess what? Every single week we are going to do the best we possibly can to add value

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to people's lives and we'll let the results be the result." But my secret

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sauce is the consistency of being willing to put myself out there and I am okay looking

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stupid. And it's really really hard to beat somebody who doesn't care anymore.

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That's just going no I'm willing to tr I'm willing to go find out what works and what doesn't. And for every single

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person, we like to say not all failures are created equal. There's some

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lowhanging fruit. There are some things that you can certainly try that are for free. But then there's some triple

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figure failures. There's some six figure failures. We know some people that have

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some 10 figure failures. We always like to say, "Hey, you want to fail as early

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as you can, as cheap as you can." Uh there are some six-figure lessons we're learning as an organization right now

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that we're going we'll see. We've placed some bets on a new book that I have

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coming out that I'm going I don't I really don't know. It could be a six

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figure failure. It could be a seven figure win, but unless you're willing to to put

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yourself out there, um you'll you'll never know. And so I'm I'm I'm more

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excited about the future than ever before because I am finding out things

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that other people aren't willing to find out. So I am literally putting my money

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where my mouth is every single day. Talk to us a little bit about the book you mentioned. Uh just from what I've seen,

New Book - "How To Work With Complicated People"

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I'm super excited. Yeah. It's called How to Work with Complicated People:

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Strategies for Effective Collaboration with Nearly Anyone. Keyword nearly because some people are certified crazy

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and you can't work with everybody. But the reason I wrote this book was because I learned that there are so many people

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who have a job that they love with people that they find difficult. And

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what's interesting is is people were actually more willing to do a difficult job with people they actually enjoy

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doing their job with. And so what does that mean? It means well a person's job

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satisfaction has less to do with their job description and more to do with the people that they actually do the work

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with on a daily basis. And I kept finding so many people that were just like, man, I the barrier to me actually

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enjoying my career is this person. And and they're not evil. They're they're

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not necessarily bad. They're just complicated. And and I thought,

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well, how can I help them get a superpower? Because think of it like this. If you're a leader, it's not hard

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to lead awesome people. It it it's not hard to lead hardworking people, people that are always on time,

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people that are hungry to learn. It's not hard to lead humble people, teachable people, coachable people. No,

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it's hard to lead the rough necks. It's hard to lead the people with the biggest ego. It's hard to lead the people that

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are late and think to themselves that you can't tell them nothing. Like those are the people that are are hard to

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lead. And so I thought, well, if I could give people the superpower of leading and working with difficult people,

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complicated people, prickly people. I use that word in the book because we just thought it makes so much sense.

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Some people are just a little prickly. Uh I thought if you could if you could work with those people, well, now you

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just became indispensable. Now you become so invaluable because now you're one of

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those leaders that says, "Yeah, put anybody on my team. I'm good." Why? cuz I know how to work with complicated

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people. Yeah. I I can I can work with nearly anyone because I have the skill

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sets to be able to work with somebody that believes differently than I believe, votes differently than I vote,

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thinks different, has a different pace, has a different preference, and yes, a different personality. And I actually

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have the ability to sit with them long enough to understand what they bring to the table because there is value in in

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in somebody thinking differently than me. We don't need sameness for us to be

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able to accomplish the same goals. And so I thought if we can put together a tool, I thought that hey, this will add

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value to uh my clients and add value to the world to be able to work with complicated people. Wow. Uh on this

Servant Leadership Perspective

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podcast we talk a ton about servant leadership and one of the things that I think blends so well is this concept of

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how do you work with complicated people? What do you think of when you think of servant leadership and how do you see it

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blending in with that? Yeah, I think there's there's something about a

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leader that looks at their team and says, "I'm here for

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you." versus, "Y'all are here for me." It's completely different mindset. It's

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the difference between a giver and a taker. I'm prone to have a value system

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of generosity. So, I'm on the giving side. I'm all I walk into a room, I go, "What can I give? What can I give? How

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can I add value to this room? It's not about me. It's it's about it's about

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them." I can't tell you how many times I've shown up for a speaking engagement and go, "We are so glad you're here." I'm like, "No, I'm glad they're here.

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Like, how how can I Hey, so so what can we promote for you?" I'm like, "Guys, I'm I'm promoted. I I'm I'm here to add

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value to your leaders. I'm here to add value to your sales team. I'm here to add value to the team." like I don't I'm

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I'm here to to serve you. That's that's why I'm that's why I'm here. I think

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when a leader shows up with that not here I am but there you are type of

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mentality. I think it immediately uncomplicates a a working relationship.

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Even take a difficult conversation that a leader needs to have with somebody on their team. On one side you could go man

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they they just need a talking to you. Okay. They really they really need to change. They really need to to to to fix

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their behavior. They really need to work harder. They really need to to be more collaborative. You name it. But imagine

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it if if that leader comes comes to them and says, "Hey, I'm I'm here for

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you." You know that I I'm my style of leadership is I'm I'm here for you. And

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and here's the deal. I I want to bring out your best. I Let

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me tell you what I how I see my job. My job is to help you reach your potential.

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I I want I want to do whatever I can to help you bring your aame every single

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day. And and so, hey, in light of that, here are some things I'm noticing. I'm noticing that sometimes the team gets a

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vibe from you that I actually I don't think you want them to have that vibe. And guess what? That vibe might not even

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be true. It might not be. It may not be true, but it's true to them right now.

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So, what can we do together to to change that? You see how we're we're moving towards one another, but it's it's it's

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under this umbrella of servant leadership where we're going, hey, I'm actually here to serve you that you may

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not even realize you have this reputation and and I want to help you repair. Or we could just let everybody

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just talk about you behind your back. But why would we do that? It doesn't help us. And so, so that's how I I think

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those two two things go to go hand in hand. What do you think is one of the hardest

The Hardest Part About Leadership

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things about leadership today? The world is changing so rapidly and we always hear that, but what's really one of the

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hardest things that nobody's talking about? The hardest part about leadership is that the world changed in a way

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that gave everyone a voice. I don't want to

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say leadership used to be easy, but leadership used to be y'all going to do what I say.

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is what it is. This is what we're doing. And there's there's no talking about it. There's no meeting. There's there's no

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uh collective voting. There's no feelings. I had one client say, "We were

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doing really well until we got a HR team." And now that we got a HR team, it's like now we hear from everybody

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about every little thing. and and you know he was being facitious but but I but I think there is some truth to that

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in the sense of leadership used to just be y'all are just going to do what I

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tell you to do. There is there's no back and forth. There's no consensus. There's no work

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life balance. What what are you talking about? There's no mental health breaks.

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There's no there's none of that even just 10 years ago. So you fast forward

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to today and the hardest part about being a leader is you have to move a little bit slower and slower is better,

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but sometimes for a leader they don't feel like it's as efficient. And so that that can be a challenge especially if

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you were a leader in the old days trying to lead in in a new school way can definitely be very very challenging to

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go okay I got to like ask people how they're doing and what a leader has to

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do today to get people to give 100% is far greater than what it used to be and

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so I also believe what comes with that is I think leaders are better today because they can lead more

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And now people can go home and actually respect their boss and actually go,

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"Man, this is the person I actually want to work with." I think every leader has an opportunity to be one of those leaders that says, "Hey, you could

24:31
either have to work for me or you can get to. I want to be a get-to leader. I

24:36
want people that work for me to go, dude. I love working for Ryan. I love working with Ryan. In fact, it's a

24:43
privilege. If he ever fired me, I'd cry because I would have to go work for some other jerk, some other like like I want

24:51
them to feel like I'm the luckiest person on the planet because not because

24:56
Ryan's Austin, but because of how they're treated and how we're trying to bring out the best in one another. So, I

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think that that that certainly can be a challenge for a lot of leaders in today's workforce. There's this really

Building an "Open To Fail" Culture

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happy balance between leading well, innovating, pushing the boundaries and

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learning from failure but not always failing, right? And I think a lot of leaders uh hear the concept of fail and

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fail fast and chase failure and they believe it but then when it push comes to shove, it's all about success metrics

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and not failing and all of that kind of stuff. Uh how do you think leaders can build cultures where failure is a

25:37
positive yet they're not always failing? I think one of the things that they they

25:42
have to do especially when you are a publicly traded company that matters.

25:48
It's a whole lot more accountability and and you don't have as as much room as

25:55
perhaps another organization. But I think you you have to look for levels of failure. You got

26:01
to look for that lowhanging fruit. What is it that hey, we can be open to all

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ideas. That's where it starts. That doesn't mean I have to fund every idea,

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but it does mean that our people feel

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empowered to to speak out loud to say, "What if there

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was another way that doesn't look like the way that got us where we are?"

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And so I I think that every single organization a lot of organizations have this but a lot don't. I think a research

26:38
and development arm that is truly going well let's

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explore let's explore every single avenue that could add value to our

26:51
business. How can AI add value to our business? Instead, I was speaking with a

26:57
a forklifting company earlier and we were talking about how AI can add value to

27:03
their business. Like, what's is a robot going to go like use a forklift? Like,

27:08
that's scary. It's like, no, but we started talking. We started strategizing about what it could look like for AI to

27:14
add value to the organization. You'd be surprised how many leaders are anti-

27:20
technology. They're they're just old school. It was just like this is just the way we've always done it. But you'd

27:26
be you'd be surprised to to see the results that people can can actually

27:32
have when they're just willing to embrace a new way even if it doesn't go well. So to look at somebody that's

27:38
younger on the team and say, "Hey, we want to we want to commission you to to just do some exploration of how

27:45
technology can add value to our business." the amount of ass the amount it's coming out so fast that even you

27:52
and I can't even keep up with all of it. I am amazed by by where technology is

27:59
and where it's going and the value that that it can have uh in all of our

28:04
businesses but a lot of people just don't even take time to explore it. So I I think it's important that every

28:12
organization has obviously a risk tolerance but a willingness to say hey

28:17
here's some things that are free that we can try that we're are commissioning and

28:23
empowering somebody to explore and then there's some things where you say hey do we have a th000 $10,000 is this $100,000

28:34
that we want to put towards this initiative that would invest in technology for um our patients to

28:40
experience a different kind of healthcare. Absolutely. Roll the dice.

28:45
Absolutely. Can you roll the dice on something a little bit cheaper? Maybe. But I think you've got to be able to

28:52
ramp up and you've got to your people can't feel claustrophobic when it comes

28:57
to innovation. They need to feel like, you know what, we can bring something crazy to the table. And sometimes it's

29:04
just respecting the idea to go, man, that's that's crazy. Let's explore it. Hey, could you put together a proposal

29:10
what that would look like and what our next steps would be? And maybe for some other reasons, you go, "Hey, we're actually not going to move forward with

29:15
that." But your people should know that you're open to new ideas and try and get a new way. Whereas some people just feel

29:22
like, you know, innovation really isn't valued here. And so, I think a lot of companies are actually missing out on

29:28
their best ideas. It's interesting because so often from the outside you look at some of these companies do

Behind The Scenes Work - Complicated People

29:35
various things and you think, "Wow, they just hit a home run and they can't miss." Not realizing all the failure

29:40
that happens behind the scenes to get to that point. Absolutely. I think when people even look at people

29:46
like you, um, they think, "Wow, Ryan can't miss. He's always on point. Everything he does turns to gold. Like

29:53
all this is working well." not not realizing that you put in so much work behind the scenes. Even thinking through

30:00
like your new book, you know, it's not just Ryan had an idea, let's go write a quick book. There is tons of painstaking

30:07
research that goes into stuff like that. It might not always be failure, but it's a ton of work. And I'm sure there's

30:13
failure along the way. Talk about your process for even like coming up with a book, writing a book, or starting a new

30:20
idea, even just any of that. the work that goes into it that nobody even knows. Man, what a what a great

30:26
question. Um, so the book started off with how to deal

30:34
with complicated people. And then my publishing team was like, do you want to help people deal with complicated people

30:41
everywhere? You want to deal with baby mama drama? You want to deal with divorce? You want to deal with, you

30:49
know, all like everything? And I was like, "Well, that'd be a tough book." And they said, "Well, what about work

30:55
with complicated people?" I go, "Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's let's just pick a space, you know." And I'm like, "All right." So, so that was the first part.

31:01
And then it was like, "All right, let's let's write this book and let's figure out what are all of the nuances that

31:09
people are challenged by with complicated people in the workforce. Then we get to a place where it's like,

31:14
"All right, well, now we got to pick a book cover." And publisher sends, you know, uh, a bunch of book covers and

31:21
they were okay. They were good enough. Except one friend that I sent them to, I said, "Hey, what do you think?" She She

31:26
goes, "These are all crap." I go, "I know, but you think everything's crap and that's a problem. We've talked about this and that's okay. You're just one of

31:32
those people." She goes, "Okay, okay." She goes, "I'll receive that, but have you heard of Rodrigo?" And I'm like,

31:37
"No, who is Rodrigo?" So she sends me Rodrigo's website and it like blew our

31:43
minds. It was just like, "Oh, this is like the world's top book designer." Like this is world class. And I see a

31:50
friend of mine whose book was actually on his page. I'm like, "Oh, I didn't know Rodrigo did their cover. It's awesome." And so called them and I said,

31:56
"Hey, tell me about Rodrigo." And they go, "Ryan, Rodrigo's no joke. You gota you

32:05
got to talk to Rodrigo." I said, "Well, is it expensive?" And she goes, "Oh,

32:10
yeah." And and she told me the number. I said, "For a book cover?" She goes, "Yeah, it's called the

32:18
big leagues." I said, "Oh, you ain't have to say that to me like that." Like,

32:23
I I feel personally victimized on that one. I said, "Get me on the phone with Rodrigo." So, I get on the phone with Rodrigo the next day and I realized he

32:30
was world class at what he does. World class. He he is topped in the world for

32:37
a reason and his team is absolutely amazing. He gave me 30 book covers. I

32:42
promise you I could close my eyes and say pick any one of them.

32:48
Absolutely mind blown. Well, then he goes, "Hey, we can do your interior,

32:54
too." I said, "Well, what do you mean?" "Well, most books are black and white. You never you didn't even think about

32:59
that. Most people don't think about that. that most books are in black and white because that's the cheapest way to print them. Well, TVs used to be that

33:06
way, too. Until one day somebody said, "M, I think this would be better in color." Yeah, but it'd be more

33:12
expensive. Yeah, but it' also be better. So, then it was like, "Okay, that's even

33:17
more expensive." It's like, "Oh my gosh, dude. I called another friend and I

33:23
said,"Hey, uh, you think I should spend all this money on on a book cover and an interior?" And he said, "Ryan Leak, you

33:28
don't need to do this." He said, "Where you're at life, your career?" He's like, "Dude, you're you

33:33
don't need to do this." But he said, "If your book is on the desk of a CEO who's

33:40
trying to decide to bring you in to speak or not, and it's next to another

33:45
New York Times best-selling author's book," he said, "Well, in that moment,

33:50
it's a game of inches." And you got to ask yourself, are you playing the game

33:56
of interest? And I said, I'm playing. So, we went from just writing another

34:03
book on how to deal with complicated people to how to work with complicated people. And then it was like, okay, well, well, we need to do some research.

34:09
We commissioned an entire research study all around how people are navigating complicated people in the workforce all

34:16
the way to uh the cover choices and then a whole interior where we go page by

34:21
page to say hey how can we not just give people a book how can we give people an

34:27
experience. So that's the behind the scenes of how

34:32
to work with complicated people. So most people would never know that. They'll just see it on the shelf and go oh cool.

34:38
But trust me, there was a lot more that that went into uh even we we've had to

34:44
reach out to so many specialized printers to even get the book

34:51
printed. So, it'll be on a shelf and it'll it'll look normal to you, but trust me, behind the scenes is a whole

34:58
lot more that goes into it than than what meets the eye. The funny thing is this. The easiest part about writing a

35:05
book is writing the book. The hardest

35:11
part is everything else. And so I I think it's just it's fun to enjoy the

35:17
journey. But again, you know, circling back to the chasing failure stuff, it's like we're always trying

35:24
things that most authors aren't willing to try. And so we we just again

35:31
sometimes it's free, sometimes it cost us a little bit, but I think when we're

35:37
willing to fail things most people are too afraid to try, we wake up in places most people don't. That's an amazing

10-Rapid-Fire Questions

35:42
story. And I think part part of the beauty of both chasing failures and how

35:48
to work with complicated people is at some point when you start mastering or

35:53
getting better at both of those things from the outside, people look at people like that and think, "Wow, they just have their stuff together and they're

35:59
moving in the right direction." And they don't see all of that failure. And I think that's the beauty of it is that it

36:05
starts to even if it's not easier behind the scenes, it looks easier and people notice it. Absolutely. 100%. Okay. Ryan,

36:12
I want to ask you 10 rapid fire questions. Oh, I like this. Where you just say the first thing that comes to

36:19
your mind and there's no right or wrong. Let's go. All right. First one is, who's the first person you think of when I say

36:25
servant leadership? John Maxwell. Five words that most describe you.

36:31
generous, silly,

36:40
creative, considerate, intentional, love it. Favorite author or book? Mel

36:45
Robbins. Let Them Theory. Favorite movie? Dark Knight slash Dark Knight Rises slash Avengers Endgame. Also, my

36:54
favorites. Favorite food? Pizza. Favorite thing to do in your free time? Basketball. What's a surprising fact

37:01
about you? I'm a clean freak. And when I say I'm a clean freak, I'm a

37:06
clean gadget freak. We be buying all Amazon be getting me. I ain't going even

37:12
lie. Amazon be getting me. If there is some sort of cleaning gadget or

37:18
something that can somehow make cleaning more efficient in any way, shape, or

37:24
form, I'm buying it. Our our mop is

37:29
basically AI. And let me just tell you something. This is the greatest mop. It's a mop vacuum. This thing is just no

37:36
jokes. People would have no idea how much I'm into cleaning gadgets. I love

37:42
that. Where is favorite place you've been? Uh London was pretty cool. Yeah,

37:48
Lond London was pretty cool. Um, Hawaii is pretty pretty.

37:58
Um, but ironically, my favorite place to go is Scottsdale. I love Scottdale.

38:05
I live in Dallas, but I could I could live in Scottsdale. Love that. Where's somewhere you want to go that you have

38:10
not been? Japan. All right. And finally, what's the best advice you've ever gotten? best advice I've ever

38:17
gotten is from a guy named Rick Warren. He's one of the most successful authors

38:24
ever. Uh he said something to me. I I got to spend about three hours with Rick

38:29
one day and I asked him said, "Hey, what do you see when you see

38:35
me speak into my life?" And he said,

38:42
"Ryan, people like you." He said, "Dude, I" He said, "I'm

38:48
not worried about your future or your success." He goes, "People like you." He goes, "There will always be space for somebody like you." He said, "If you're

38:55
talented and kind and a good person," and he's like, "Man," he said, "you career is going to be fine." He said,

39:03
"But what's crazy is," he said, "your life is actually not good for you." I

39:08
like, "What do you mean?" He said, "Everywhere you go, you get treated like a king. First class, presidential

39:16
suites, state dinners, standing ovations, lights,

39:21
camera, action, fog, named name on a billboard." He

39:27
said, "All of that is actually not good for you." Said, "In fact, there was only one guy

39:33
who was built to be worshiped. His name is Jesus." He said, 'When everybody else gets too much of it, they go crazy. It

39:40
ruins them. He says, "So what I encourage people like yourself to do is

39:45
when you go home, make sure you change your own diapers. When you go home, make sure you mow your own lawn." He said, "You need

39:52
something in your life to normalize you because your wife and kids cannot

39:58
compete with Microsoft. Your wife and kids cannot compete with

40:05
Nike or Coca-Cola or whoever it is that is bringing you in. They're paying you a

40:11
lot of money and cheering for you and standing for you and clapping for you and and putting pink Starburst in a

40:19
green room because it's your favorite candy. Like, and I do that 120 times a year.

40:25
He's like, he goes, "How are how are your how is your family supposed to compete with all of that?" They can't.

40:34
He says, "So, you've got to normalize yourself when you get home." So,

40:40
um, I can't mow my own lawn because we've got turf, so it's fake grass. But

40:47
when I get home from a trip, I mop our floors. And my family's like, "What are you doing?" And I'm like, "Come on."

40:55
So having something that grounds you is like it's best advice I've ever got.

41:02
That's amazing advice. Well, Ryan, I am so thankful for your willingness to be on the podcast and for our audience to

Closing

41:09
get to hear from you. Thanks for being on it. My pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Servant

41:15
Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below. Don't forget

41:22
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41:28
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