Tom Hsieh's Intro

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Tom Shay might be one of the most humble servant leaders you will ever meet. He helped grow Earthlink into a

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billion-doll company, but chose a radically different path, capping his income at the National Median and

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investing the rest into revitalizing communities like Pomona in California. Today, he's leading an airline company,

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supporting nonprofits, and still living with the same open-handed posture that marked his earliest days of faith. This

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episode is packed with wisdom on business, calling, humility, and how to lead with deep conviction. For anyone

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pursuing servant leadership with open hands and a humble heart, this one's for you,

Welcome Tom Hsieh

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Tom. Thank you for being on the servant leadership podcast. Really glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me. The

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first time I met you was speaking at a large event. Uh and it was just amazing.

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You had everyone's hearts moved. Before we get into why that happened, I would love to hear a little bit about your

Tom's Business and Faith Journey

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business background and uh and what your business career looked like in the early days. Oh,

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wow. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, so let me go way back and um uh talk about I I guess

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my uh my career started with JPL. I worked for Jet Propulsion Laboratories

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uh in the uh early 90s and then um uh a

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internet startup company in the Los Angeles area called Earthlink, Earthlink Networks uh was recruiting around the

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lab and and so so I I joined Earthlink but but it was kind of an interesting story.

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So actually I I may have to take one more step back. Go for it. Okay. All right. So, um I graduated with a physics

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degree from Harvey M College. And when I

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graduated, kind of this um renewal of my faith as a Christian while I was in

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college uh studying physics and science of all things, but but really a renewal

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of my faith and and and a sense of conviction of

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what God's justice um should look like according to the

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scriptures and and that, you know, that that that impacted me in in a greater way than than than I've had um

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previously. And and I was convicted of two things when I when I graduated. One was that God really has a love for the

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poor. And the second thing that was convicted of is that I do not have a love for the poor. M and I I felt like

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what God um invited me to consider at that time was was he said, "Well, Tom,

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you you know where my heart is and where I am and where what I'm working on.

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Where are you where are you going?" And so at that time I actually had some um uh job offers from

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aerospace. You know, that's a a common pathway for physics majors. And I

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decided to turn down those job offers and I joined a Christian organization called Servant

Introduction To Urban Communities

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Partners. Servant Leadership. Servant Partners works in urban communities around the world. And they had a

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two-year internship based in Pomona. I was placed on the team in Pomona. That's how I ended up here in Pomona. I was

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part of that uh team and the purpose was to train us to be able to go overseas

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and and live in an incarnational way to bring God shalom

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um well-being and and um uh prosperity, you know, to to these

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challenging urban areas. And so at the end of the two years, you know, most of my teammates ended up going overseas,

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but I really felt like uh the calling for my life was to stay and work for the shalom here in the city of Pomona. Uh so

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it's been about 30 some years now. And

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um and so that's really been part of my life calling. Okay. But in that meantime, in the meantime, I also, you

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know, uh my career also advanced. So, so even though I took that two years doing

Earthlink Business Career - Early Days

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that internship, I you know end up I was working at JPL and I was being recruited by this

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internet startup called Earthlink and I remember a third round of interviews um sitting across the

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table from you know three of the company executives and they're explaining how this internet thing was really going to

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become a big thing right this was the early days so no one you know the internet didn't quite exist

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yet and And so so they were trying to hire, you know, folks with networking backgrounds

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from places like Jet Propulsion Laboratories. Um, and I thought this looked really

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exciting. And I came in there and I I said, "I'm really excited about this

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company and this technology. Uh, I just need you to understand that I'll need my hours to be

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from 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. because I need to get back to Pomona for these after school programs I'm committed to."

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M and they looked at me like I was crazy, you know, like like who forgot to

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tell this guy that he's interviewing at an internet startup company, right? I mean, literally there was like sleeping

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bags on the floor, pizza boxes stacked to this guy in the corner. In the corner, there was a guy slept over on

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this keyboard, right? I' fallen asleep and you know, in a couple hours he's going to wake up, he's going to pop open

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a can of Jolt and, you know, type away until midnight, right? Until he falls asleep again. and and who's this who's

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this young, you know, guy without a clue asking to set his hours from 7:00 a.m.

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to 3:00 p.m. But in in that moment, you know, uh in that awkward

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silence, I just had this prompt and I just said, "Well, you know, we've come this far, third round, why don't we give

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it a try and judge me based on the work I get done, not in the hours I'm here."

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And miraculously, they said, "Okay." Uh so so that's how I ended up working at

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at at Earthlink. Um when I joined the technical team was just nine other engineers and myself. We were working

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out of a converted dentist's office actually maybe about the same size or small of this room that we're sitting in

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now. And in that first month we had to knock down the wall to the to the lawyer's office next door to expand our

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service because we were growing so fast. So about a month later my my boss comes to me and he taps me on the shoulder

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says uh uh we need to speak we need to talk. I said, "Sure. In my office." And his office was the broom the broom

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closet and we step in there. And he says, "Well, Tom, yeah, we we've been watching you work." Like,

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"Okay." He says, "And we decided we want to give you a promotion." I was like, "Wow, that's amazing." Yeah, I would

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love a promotion. Uh, as long as you understand, I'll need my hours to be from 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. And uh, and

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so so I was with her Flink for 10 years. um um growing with company to VP of engineering helped grow that technical

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team from the nine engineers to 450 engineers uh nationwide network

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engineers, software engineers, systems engineers and through our IPO uh we were

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um one of the early $1.2 billion on the NASDAQ exchange. Uh so it was quite a

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ride, quite a a a an incredible ride. But but actually the funny thing is

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through all that, you know, one of the things that was most impactful for my life was being involved in after school

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program after 3 p.m., right? Seeing the lives of of these kids and these families um you

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know, grow and transform and um yeah,

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that's so uh anyway. So, so that's early early days since you asked about the early days of my career. And I have a so

Drastic Decisions About Personal Finances

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many earthling questions that that I want to get to, but but one thing before I get to those that I I want to

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acknowledge and maybe ask you to talk about is uh you shared a little bit about what you felt like God was putting

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on your heart uh early and then you talked about this Earthlink success and obviously uh leading all of those

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engineers and going public. Um yeah, there was a lot of money to be made.

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There was just a lot of money to be made and you and Bri, your wife, chose to make some pretty what the world would

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call are drastic decisions um on how you would choose to live. Talk about that

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journey to our audience. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Uh yeah, I guess it gets a a little bit

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unconventional. Uh the choices we made, but but you know, when when when uh the company went public, uh having been, you

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know, an executive and early employee, you know, my my stock stock option set

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up probably worth a couple million dollars. And uh it was a crazy day around the office. I mean, I remember,

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you know, ministry of assistants and mail room clerks showing up the next day in their Audi TTS and

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their, you know, it was just uh and you know, and I show up to work with my car.

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It was, you know, a uh uh uh

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geometro. Um and in that time, you know, because because of where we live, you know, and then, you know, our our work

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in the community, I mean, our expenses were very low. We, you know, we live in a two-bedroom apartment in, um, one of

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the rougher parts of the city. Um, and, you know, we

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we had, you made a decision that we, you know, how do we think about our finances? Uh,

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and we thought, you know, you know, it would be helpful to have a limit. And

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so, so, so we set a limit for ourselves to to live at or below the medium household income level for the nation.

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And at that point the medium household income for the nation was 48,000 a year. That meant house half half the

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households in the nation lived on 48,000 more and half the household live on 48,000 less. And and so so that's where

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we set it. Um medium household income to these days, you know, for California is

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probably somewhere around um 90,000 92 I think for a family of four. And um you

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know we're we're just around there still, right? We just felt like it's been a just a a helpful watermark of

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things. you know, some years we're a little higher, some years we're a little lower, but um uh but it's been a a

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really wonderful, you know, I say joyful, you know, watermark for us and because it's also it's freed us

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tremendously for uh you fre us up to to to do uh a lot of um fun things, right?

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uh with with the rest of our income as the Lord has directed us and and it alo

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gives us a lot of internal freedom, right? That Yeah. Well, and I I know you've and we'll get into this later

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too, but I know the impact you've made on multiple communities, especially Pomona, has been now generational. Um

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how you've just been able to help shape what a community could look like. So before we get to that, thinking through the Earthlink side of things, you talked

Dealing With Early Leadership Challenges

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about going from being in a room with nine other engineers to now you're in charge of 450 engineers. Uh and you

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didn't go to school for leadership training or to learn to be a servant leader necessarily or even to understand

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how to build a team like that. What were some leadership challenges and some leadership lessons along that journey,

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especially going public that quickly? Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. you know, I I really was

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fortunate to have uh the the mentorship of some great managers in those early

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days. And I would say, you know, um you know, my my direct manager, uh Trent

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was, you know, a servant leader um and others, you know, in the company, you know, not not everyone, but you know,

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there were servant leaders there that that I really had the benefit of of

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learning from, right? um watching their example but also being mentored by them

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in terms of how to think about things. So, so I really felt like that that was a gift, you know, to me. And then and

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then by the time I had that position, I realized, yeah, I didn't I didn't have that education. I didn't have that

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training. Um, and so I did go back. I got an executive MBA uh uh from the

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trucker school of management. And I appreciated that program particularly just because of its focus on the social

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responsibility of management, right? which in itself I mean kind I think kind of you know um uh communicates a little

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bit of you know kind of the social servant you know servant you know the servant leadership undergirling of of

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that that philosophy right that there's that there's a social responsibility you know to to to business and to management

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and and that's that's influenced me quite a bit so you've been able to get extremely

Involvement in Pomona California

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involved in the city of Pomona just outside of downtown LA and you've seen seen it go from being somewhere that um

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I would say maybe when you first lived here people didn't seek out to live in Pomona uh to now somewhere that people

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want to be. Um you've seen just a big transition in the last few decades. Uh

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talk about why you even got involved or why you cared so deeply about the community and and seeing it really be

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revitalized. So, so I I mentioned, you know, having been involved as an intern with servant

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partners here and really through um like studying the book of Nehemiah in

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the Bible uh you know where Nehemiah helps to rebuild the wall around Jerusalem and

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the way the community you know rallying together, right? to re rebuild a community together. um rebuild

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physically rebuild a wall and um and just you know just inspired by

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that but also convicted at the same time like you know could that happen here you know and

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that was my prayer like you know Lord would you would you help us make that happen here and and and at that time you

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know I was also you know convicted um through mentorship of you know other leaders particularly others that were

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did urban work like like John Burton's uh had um you know attended a a a class

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conference he led and I remember you know words like you know if you're if you're in an urban community and you're

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there you know for 5 years you've you've done more harm than good. I'm like wow

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like if you're there for 10 years you break even. If you're there for 15 years you start to see some fruit. like, whoa,

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this is a long-term, you know, process. This is a a long-term commitment. Um,

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and so I think I think, you know, we started collaborating with, you

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know, we we, you know, call our our group of little

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co-conspirators, collaborators in the city, one who we just met, you know, um, uh, Josh and others and our mayor, um,

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Jim Sandival and, um, many, many others. I um you know I I cannot name on you

A 50-Year Plan For Pomona

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know what what would a 50-year plan look like, right? What would a 50-year vision look like for the city? Uh the city had

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been in decline for several decades. Uh I had extremely high um um you know uh

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violent you know like um uh extreme violence issues, drug issues, gang

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issues, uh human trafficking and it's still struggling with some of those but it's made some uh

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amazing progress. It's just incredible. It's really been amazing. There there was this real sense of hopelessness. I

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know that um uh about 20 years ago, the the school district did a survey of all

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their high school students and you just trying to try to get a sense of what

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what was the emotional state, the psychological state and many of them, majority of them responded, you know,

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they did not see a future for themselves. um that they they did not believe, you know, they were not believe that they

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would either live to see their 18th birthday because of because of the the

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gang violence or they'd end up in jail. And to see to see that transform, you know, over those years has been really

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incredible, really amazing. And then even just on a on a macroscopic level, I mean, I love to point this out on

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macroscopic level. So the the local newspaper Daily Bolton, you know, published this article in 20

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2017 city of Pomona faces fiscal cliff. Um

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uh $10 million in deficits, you know, decades of deficits for, you know, will

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um you know, certainly to to be insolvent, right? Okay.

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um and to you know 20 in in May of 2024

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just last year you know published an article sea of Pomona on track for $8 million surplus in their city budget.

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Yeah. Um having you know replenished its its um its reserve uh accounts. So

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that's that's just amazing you know the transformation in those years and um but

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you know it's taken leadership right and so so grateful for the leadership that that that's you know that's stepped up

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and been part of the city's change. This is going to be a hard question for you

Learning Humility

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to answer. Um, but one of the ways I described you even to my business

17:59
partner was, um, from the second Tom says hello, you're going to understand

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that he is one of the most humble people you'll ever meet. Uh, and even just

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hearing the deficit to the surplus, uh, it it glosses over the actual impact

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that you made on making that happen. Um, and you are truly a very humble person.

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If if some some of our listeners are wondering what culture might tell them is tell everyone what you did

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specifically to make things great um and and praise all the great work you've

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done yourself. That's not been your approach and it's served you really well. How does somebody learn humility

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um like you have? I told you it'd be a tough question. Oh

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boy. Yeah, that's you know you know you know what's funny? Um uh let me share a story. Yeah. Uh so

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um you know my wife and I have this practice where before we make major life

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decisions we we gather people around us to pray for us. Uh people around and so

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like when we bought our house when we actually you know we at one point we finally moved out of our apartment because you know we had um two kids. we

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had is u kind of a foster situation too is we had three kids and our two-bedroom

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apartment just wasn't us and we and and but we felt like you know was this was this a faithful thing to do is this you

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know something and so we we gather folks around us to pray uh for us and you know

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they're like no this this is a healthy thing you should you know and I had a sense from the Lord telling me you know

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I'm moving you I'm like I and actually had to had a sense of hearing ing that myself to to feel release from um from

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the apartments where we're living because there was just so much we were just so embedded, right? There was just

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so much happening around us all the time and you know people be able to come over at 1:30 in morning knock on our doors

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because they needed something or um you know someone's car broke down in the morning and they need to ride somewhere

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or kids need to pick up and we're it just we're just part of the community and then so feel like moving at home

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just felt like it just create creates more distance, right? Just creates more distance. But but because of the

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commitments we had to these kids right and our own as well as others we felt like okay this is this makes sense this

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is something we needed to do. Anyway another time uh another big decision was

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um I had a job offer it was a um uh you know a seuite position fortune 500

20:37
company another Fortune 500 company that seemed really like

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attractive to me. I just I mean I I I I love the the the brand of this company.

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Um uh I I I um the this

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salary and the title and you know a lot of the things that were offering you know were very

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attractive and but I didn't have a sense of peace on it. So, so we gather our Kimmy around to to pray for us and and

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including uh my brother, you know, was there at the at this gathering um with

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with uh folks in our community. Well, one thing my brother said right as we were praying, he says

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he says, "Tom, you know, your your arc the arc of your life is God humbling

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you." I'm like, "Gee, thanks, brother. It's really but you know so so to answer that

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question first I'll just say I think I'm just glad that God's hasn't given up on me right and

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has um um yeah has cared enough right to to

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keep working on me and and you know and broad opportunities to

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um help keep things in perspective you understand my place as, you know,

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um, you know, someone that's that's broken and

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not perfect and in need of his grace and so so joyful and grateful for his grace

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and so joyful and grateful for his mercies in my life, his blessings in my

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life and all the things I have. I mean, just it's amazing the blessings I've have in my life. It's incredible and

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it's just so grateful for that. And then so it's it's helpful to to to see all

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that and and have the perspective also of you know the friends you know I talked about this internship that was on

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right you know and and all the folks in servant partners these these friends

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these colleagues who have chosen to live in these urban slums around the world right some of them living in shacks in

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shanty towns and and I think of the sacrifice they make you know for the

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sake of you know love others, right, with with their lives to pour pour themselves out. I'm like, "Wow, that's

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just so incredible like like you know what am I

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doing, right?" And and so so that's a beautiful thing.

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Anyway, back to that that per time, you know, the uh just just to to not leave

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things hanging, but you know, the conclusion of that was, you know, the sense of the whole group was that that was not the job for me. You know,

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someone in that group said, you know, Lord can give you a seuite job in any company he wants any time, but this is

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not the one for you. And um and so I was grateful to, you know, be able to have

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that kind of input, right, from our community. um that you know in one sense

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is humbling right uh because it's uh I

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think the act of submission you know uh is helpful in terms of keeping me humble

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and that submission you know takes a lot of forms sometimes it's it's it's turning down a job offer sometimes it's

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it's stepping off a board you know so uh and that's that's there have been

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times when that's been challenging in my life and you think back and like why was I so hard but in a moment you know like

24:20
there was a nonprofit that I I w I helped found here in the city of Pomona

24:26
hope um I think it's 22 years now running which is amazing praise God but you know

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I was the founding president of the organization um really injected a lot of

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energy right and it's just just really love to um see this organization come

24:45
together serve the kids and families of our community and and after the first

24:51
year uh really had a strong sense from the Lord that I was supposed to step off the board that was supposed to and it

24:58
was really hard decision for me u but it was an it was an act of submission I was

25:03
like okay Lord you know because you're calling me to I will step off but I but I think I

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think that helps you know kind of yeah it helps me like it's it's it's Jesus

25:15
it's not about me, right? It's not about me. Uh, and if

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Paul's gone, you know, continue like 22 years now, continue to uh prosper and

25:26
and serve and um, you know, impact people's lives. And it can't be about

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me, right? And I think I think and then I think I think that's dangerous, right? I think I think the moment it is or does

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then um uh those things be are you know are are co coververted you know or

25:46
what's that word you know they're it's uh co-opted right they're and they're they're corrupted right

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by by you know by my own ego or by you know my yeah whatever it is and so I

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don't want that so I'm just grateful I guess is what I'm saying. A lot of prayer and open-handedness. It sounds

26:08
like the So in that process, one big decision that must have come up uh is

26:14
later to become CEO of an airline company. So that transition from

26:22
uh early tech startup to airline companies seem like drastically different industries. Yeah. But maybe

26:28
tying back to your initial like what you studied roots, uh how did this even come about?

26:35
Yeah. Well, um, okay. Uh, so it's a funny it's I guess there's a there's

26:40
it's a kind of a funny background story, but, uh, well, for for for a number of years, you know, I, you know, I I had

Political Involvement

26:47
started after I left Earthlink, I started a number of businesses. Uh, my wife and I helped start a number of

26:53
nonprofits as well in the city. and um and then for a number of years I

27:00
was focused on um uh some some uh political changes in

27:06
our city, right? So so after working in the city of Pomona for at that point,

27:12
you know, a couple decades realized, you know, those all the work we were putting into like

27:18
education, you know, healthc care, uh workforce development,

27:23
um you know, etc. It's like it felt like it was pouring water into a leaky

27:29
bucket, we realized that there was a a layer of political corruption in the city that was really sabotaging the

27:34
future of our families. Um, and so so when uh my friend uh Tim Sander stepped

27:42
forward and said he was willing to run for mayor, you know, he and he's a servant leader, he's a community leader, he's a servant leader. Uh I just felt

27:49
the con I needed to get behind him. Uh ended up being his volunteer campaign manager.

27:57
Wow. Yeah, it wasn't a plan, but um um but you know, we went up against a uh

28:05
18-year incumbent on city council uh who had us out fundraised 3 to1. 85%

28:12
of the incumbents donations were from outside the city. Come on. So, you know,

28:18
it's it's interesting to see, you know, who was funding uh his campaign. But,

28:23
you know, we we did a grassroots campaign um block by block, precinct by

28:28
precinct, district by district, and actually won by a landslide. You know, praise the Lord. We uh and and then two

28:35
years later, helped uh three new council members who were aligned with our mayor get elected as well. So there was a

28:42
majority of the city council then that was aligned with the mayor and that

28:48
level of servant leadership really has been what's been transformative for our city when we talk about that that budget

28:56
you know fiscal transformation right that's that's that leadership team right when we look at the some of the civic

29:03
transformation that's happening to say it's be because of that leadership that that servant leadership from the top

29:09
that leadership team Um there's just so much transformation and I don't know if

29:14
you know that at one point Fuller Seminary had made a decision to move to city of Pomona. Um so so the way that I

Fuller Seminary Moving To Pomona

29:22
think I shared with you know the way that started was you know one day before work I was praying and I felt like God

29:29
told me to reach out to Fuller Seminary and invite them to move to city of [Laughter]

29:35
Pomona and I'm like really you know so I did I reached out

29:41
to um you know their CFO at the time asked for lunch and shared you know this

29:47
sense I had from Lord he he was very polite and said, "Well, thank you for that invitation, but I don't think

29:52
that's ever going to happen." Um, and I said, "That's fine. I just, you know, following through on my sense and now,

29:59
you know, I' I've done my, you know, you know, I I've done my job, right? I've done my part." And then, but if you

30:05
don't mind, you know, we just keep, you know, we can keep in touch. He said, "Sure." So, every month I kept sending

30:11
them listings of property in Pomona. And six six months

30:17
later, you know, they called back and say, "Hey, President Lverton with and I would like to come out and visit you in

30:22
your city and to come on the tour. Eventually ended up in their the board of directors and holding a you know a

30:29
full day meeting here in the city and doing a tour and meeting our new mayor,

30:35
other lead city leaders talking about the civic transformation civic, you know, the the

30:41
fiscal transformation, some of the educational transformation. And you know my question to my challenge to the

30:47
organization is you know and the thing I keep praying for is you know Lord how are you going to bring about the

30:53
spiritual transformation of the city and maybe you know that was you know a role

30:58
that you know Fuller Sun could play in helping come and bring a spiritual transformation to the city as well

31:04
during the pandemic that that actually end up you know they actually brought property and see just across the street from here they brought uh bought up um

31:12
assembled a whole bunch of property property and um you know had designs for

31:17
new campus um and unfortunately during the pandemic that that all fell through when when

31:24
that got put on pause um which leads into the story. Sorry I'm that know

31:30
that's a big segue into the airline.

31:36
Uh anyway, um as some of the so some of the the political work was wrapping up

31:43
and as well as you know these conversations with Fuller Seminary, I was um trying to explore well what's next

What's Next? An Air-Transportation Business

31:50
for me, right? What do I focus on next? And I didn't know if it was

31:56
just more community stuff, you know, um how do I help to continue to, you know,

32:02
um support the the political work that's happening in the city, some of the the

32:08
economic development processes potentially, but you know, gather a group of people around to pray for me

32:14
again. And at that point, I was also exploring this idea of this this concept, the startup idea of an a

32:20
startup airline we call float, which you know, float stands for fly over all traffic, right? So LA being the sixth

32:28
largest, you know, worst traffic area in the world. Um, with over a million

32:34
people doing uh 90minute commutes each way. So that's 3 hours a day on the

32:40
road. um finding that there are 40 general aviation airports that you could

32:46
fly between reducing these three-hour commutes down to 15 minutes and thought, you know, it would be an interesting

32:52
business plan to put together, you know, um a air transportation business and I

32:58
started working on that idea and out of that prayer time the uh the consensus

33:04
you know Yav's consensus was that I should go do that and also and also

33:13
start pulling out of leadership roles in the city. uh which is a little harder than I

33:19
thought would it was going to yeah you would think I mean I think at that point it had started taking a you know you

33:26
know some root in terms of my sense of identity right my sense of ownership um but again it was a humbling thing right

33:32
to say okay it's not mine right I'm not responsible for it the Lord's been responsible for all this I've had the

33:40
amazing blessing of you know play a role um and play a you know a part in

33:48
um and you know there's all these other leaders and the Lord will keep carrying it forward. And so that was the

33:54
consensus of and almost and I know it was hard for some of those folks in that prayer team too because you know we some

34:00
of them you know we had we you know were plans we had plans to work together on

34:05
some new project and knew that they knew that giving me this you know advice

34:10
would mean that you know um the projects that we were working on they would have to head up alone or you know or find

34:18
some other way to do it. And so so you know sacrificial on their side too to be able to to give me this advice but

34:25
that's how I end up going to float and and so it evolved and now you're doing a lot of stuff.

34:32
Talk about what you're doing now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so so the way that evolved was um so we um we launched

34:40
float uh in end of February of 2020. Mhm. and

34:46
we had two great weeks of operation and then March 15th the county issued their stay-at-home orders with the pandemic

34:53
and so we're like well what do we do now and um you know I had raised some

34:58
venture capital to to launch that u business and a number of investors you

35:04
know called me and said well you know Tom no one saw this company it's not your fault we're just going to write it off and at that point team and I you

35:12
know we're playing with an idea we said well hold on hold on we we're playing with an idea

35:17
We're looking at something and what we were looking at was um this airline in

Buying Ravn Alaska Airline

35:22
Alaska called Raven Alaska that had gone bankrupt. And because they were shut

35:28
down, there were 20 communities in in Alaska that could not um see a doctor,

35:35
buy groceries, or get their US postal service. They were completely isolated without uh without aviation. And we saw

35:42
an opportunity. And we're like, well, even if we just cut, if half of their business was cargo and medical

35:50
related, even if we just did that half, could we build a business that was

35:55
sustainable to through the pandemic and serve the, you know, serve the community

36:00
good? And we convinced ourselves that, you know, there was a model there. And so so that's what we how we pivoted uh

36:07
to um uh to restarting Raven Alaska and running it through the pandemic, you

36:13
know, providing service to these communities. And then while we were in Alaska had um based in Anchorage um uh

36:22
had this brilliant idea of launching a Trans-Pacific airline um which is now

36:29
called New Pacific Airlines uh to connect Asia and North America through a hub in Anchorage, Alaska, kind of a

36:36
center point. Um so folks are familiar with you know airlines like Iceland Air be kind of

36:41
like an Iceland Air on the Pacific side and you know started so we acquired um

36:47
some Boing 757s uh started putting together this this

36:53
effort you know um capabilities to do that had got you know DOT economic

36:58
authority um was set to start launch this and then uh the war in Ukraine broke out and So

37:06
that closed the Russian airspace to us and as a new airline um um without that

37:14
ability we we need a a new certification called ETOPS and ETOPS uh for a new

37:19
airline is takes a minimum like 18 to 24 months to to to um to attain from the

37:25
FAA. So so that we had to pivot again and so so now new Pacific currently is

37:32
uh doing sports charters. we're, you know, flying six NHL teams and couple u

37:37
major league baseball teams and um June doing some World Cup flying, etc. Uh

37:43
while we were waiting for hope, you know, maybe the the war to end or uh um

37:51
Russian airspace to open up or uh our ETOP certification. So yeah, I mean just

Adapting To Change - Team Involvement

37:58
even hearing about all those throughout the years, all the speed bumps that have happened and how you've adapted and

38:05
changed so quickly. Uh when when you're talking to your team about change at this point, it's almost to be expected,

38:12
you know, how how do they deal with it and how do you instill a sense instill a sense of ownership and servant

38:18
leadership in their minds too amidst chaos and potential uncertainty? Yeah, I

38:23
know that's really tough. Um, and I'm so grateful for for my team, right? And because, yeah, it's it's

38:30
it's, you know, they're the ones that make it happen. Uh, and and so I think

38:37
the most important thing I bring to that team, you know, both a sense of respect,

38:42
an understanding of, you know, the um really gratefulness for what they

38:48
bring to the table and respect for for their expertise, respect for their hard work.

38:55
Um and as well as you know you know leadership in terms of

39:02
helping you know know they knowing that you know we'll make we might might make some hard

39:07
decisions. Mhm. Uh but but it's never about you know one p person's whim or or

39:17
something like that right it's it's like what's um what's the best path forward

39:23
for um for the company right what's the best path forward for the greatest number of people what's going to um you

39:31
know serve the community serve our employees serve um you know uh preserve

39:38
you know the business to have a chance in the future, right? And and sometimes

39:44
those uh you know those decisions are hard, right? Sometimes that requires hard

39:51
decisions but it's but you know when they are equipped with the fast when they're equipped with

39:57
the understanding the the tradeoffs the the re you

40:04
know you know what's reality what's you know where where are we financially what's what are the challenges before us

40:11
and then and they and when they know that right when they all when they know that and we all look at that together

40:18
Um, you know, I think it helps us all to, you know, have a confidence. Okay,

40:23
we're we're doing the best we can and and you know, we're going to take some

40:30
risks, right? Because not without risks, but it's uh

40:36
um but it's, you know, we have confidence that we're all working together and it's we going to take a

40:42
chance, right? I mean, it's better than just I mean, I guess the option is like, well, you just vote, you know, just lay

40:49
down, right? You know, um, and so, you know, so I'm grateful

40:55
that, yeah, they haven't we haven't stopped fighting. Well, Tom, I want to ask you 10 rapid fire questions, okay,

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

41:02
where you just say the first thing that comes to mind. Oh, dear. There's no wrong answer. Who's the first person you

41:07
think of when I say servant leadership? Just two people came right into my mind. So, so, so the first one was because I

41:14
mentioned him earlier was, you know, Trent Baker was one my boss at Earthlink, right? And the second one is, you know, Tim Sandal, you know, was our

41:20
current mayor, uh, here in the city. Yeah. All right. Five words that most describe you.

41:29
Um, uh, energetic. Um,

41:35
uh, I don't know. Persistent. I got to come up with three

41:40
more. a humble servant leader. I'll add those

41:46
three. Um, what's what's your favorite author, book, or movie?

41:53
Oh boy. Author, book, or movie? Yeah. Gosh,

41:59
that's really tough. That's really tough. I don't find a lot of time to read anymore, but you know, I've really

42:05
enjoyed Orson Scott Card's writing, you know, sci-fi. I'm a I'm a a sci-fi kind

42:11
of junkie. And then um and then, you know, movie wise, I mean, I I I guess,

42:16
you know, one of few DVDs I still own, you know, is the extended version

42:22
of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Love it. So, I guess I have to put that on the list. All right. Favorite food. Oh,

42:29
favorite food? Uh my mom's Chinese cooking. All right. What's a surprising

42:34
fact about you? Yeah, a surprising fact. Oh, dear. I don't I guess because I don't surprise myself, it's hard to know

42:40
what would be surprising to others. You've been married to your wife for a long time, so we'll go with that. You've been married a long time. Yeah, we've

42:46
been married um uh we it'll be 23 years and I'm just so

42:55
grateful for her. I mean, so you talk we talked about humility earlier, right? I think you know how I think one of the

43:02
gifts to my life is has been my wife Bri uh who who you know her you know self's

43:09
a very humble person I mean I guess you know the the amount of gifts the amount of work the impact that she's had in

43:17
many organizations as well as the city has been incredible but also in my life

43:23
right uh how she has helped shape transform challenge um um rebuked, exhorted, right? All

43:33
those things that that that yeah, I've needed over the years. Um so I'm so

43:38
grateful for her. All right. Favorite place you've been. Ooh, my wife and I

43:44
really enjoy the central coast of California. There's a lot of lovely trails along the bluffs on the coast

43:52
that I just Yeah. I I feel like I could just Yeah, that just been those are just

43:58
amazing places. Where's somewhere you want to go that you have not been? Ooh.

44:03
The thing that pops in my mind is all the places my wife would like to be. Well, you have access to planes to get

44:10
there, so that's good. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Someone

44:16
asked me like, "Oh, do you hop on a jet and go, you know, go down to this, you know, other cities to grab tacos or

44:21
something?" No. No. No. You know, you know, one time I'll tell you the story. It's kind of funny. Um when we were in

44:27
Alaska, I had my family come visit us in in Alaska and um wanted to show off, you

44:35
know, one of our planes. So So it's about I don't know 11 of us or so and

44:40
and I wanted to kick him on one of the trip, you know, on the flights in Raven, Alaska. And so, you know, went down to

44:46
the ticket counter and um, you know, purchased, you know, tickets for our family to get, you know,

44:52
get on this flight. And the, you know, the um, uh, the clerk there, you know, looked at him and says, "Sir, you know,

44:59
um, you're the CEO of the company. You know, he you know, you

45:09
just we just issue these tickets, okay?" I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. you know,

45:14
this is a private, you know, this is a personal trip, you know, and so I don't mind paying for it. And plus, you know,

45:20
I I hear it's a pretty good company, so I don't mind giving it my money. I love that. All right. What's the best

45:28
advice you've ever received? Ooh.

45:33
Okay. Since we were just talking about my wife and how long we've been married, you know, like when I was dating my wife

45:39
and we were, you know, courting, right? I was I mean I I thought I felt I thought of myself as actively coring her

45:46
but at one point I had kind of this I don't know uh I freaked out

45:53
moment where I was like what am I doing you know I could you know like u it's

45:59
going to you know um how this going to impact all the things other things I'm

46:04
doing you know like I I I you know I'm so committed to this project and that

46:10
project and this thing and my work and like you know um you know am I am I

46:17
being selfish or you know doing the wrong thing spending all this time you know dating courting

46:23
and um consider like breaking breaking up with you know um uh with Bri at that

46:30
point and and I was sharing this with um my roommate John Freeze who's you know

46:36
another wonderful man that uh was called you know to the internship ship and we

46:42
were working in the city together and he uh um amazing godly guy. But he looked

46:48
at me, he says, "Tom, you're an idiot."

46:56
Yep. Yeah. And it paid off in the end. It paid off. Yeah. All right. And finally,

Importance Of Servant Leadership Podcast

47:01
why do you think a podcast on servant leadership is important? is people need to know that

47:07
uh you can be a servant leader and servant leadership can work right and

47:14
not only work it can be a blessing I think we have so many examples of

47:20
leaders that aren't who aren't servants um we have um you

47:26
know you know lots of uh examples of

47:31
um you know very Uh uh I I'm not sure what you know but but

47:38
bad examples. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Negative examples, bad actors. Mhm. And

47:44
leadership roles and and sometimes people can get discouraged and feel like well you need you know somehow like you

47:51
need to behave like that to be a leader, right? You need to behave like that to be in charge or to to change things or

47:59
to lead things. And that's just not true. And thank you for proving that fact. M right with this podcast right by

48:05
providing examples that you know no we don't have to be that way positive

48:11
change positive growth tremendous success

48:17
um can happen you know with servant leadership right and and that just and

48:25
we can create prosperity with an

48:30
environment that is not damaging to people, right? That's not toxic. That's

48:36
not disparaging. That's that people don't go home from their project or

48:42
their work or their nonprofit or whatever, you know, feeling, you know,

48:47
being down, you know, or being worn out, being used up. Um, but instead, you

48:53
know, feel, you know, invigorated, right? Feel like they're part of

48:58
something bigger. feel like they're part of um a community that cares, right? I

49:05
think that's what it comes down to. I we talk about I talk about the sense of shalom, right? Peace and well-being. Um

49:14
you know, not only do I desire that for for our city and for many cities, for our world, desire that for our

49:20
workplaces, I desire that for our institutions. And

49:26
um but the leaders set the tone. Right. And so, so thank you for, you

49:33
know, for this podcast. Thank you for, you know, showing, you know, you know, showing the world that, you know,

49:39
there's there are other ways to do this. Well, thank you for your willingness to be on. I'm I'm glad that our audience is

Closing

49:45
getting to hear your story and also just be inspired by you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Servant

49:52
Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below. Don't forget

49:58
to subscribe and hit the notification bell to never miss an update. Be sure to

50:04
check out the servant leadership podcast.org for more updates and additional bonus content.