Leadership and Sacrifice

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Simon Synynic talks about in the

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military you you sacrifice your life and

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you get medals. In the corporate world

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you sacrifice others and you get

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promotions, right? And there's a a poem

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by Loudsu the very end it says of the

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best leaders when the task is done the

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job is complete the people will say we

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did it ourselves.

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This isn't about me.

Introducing Josh Block

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Today on the servant leadership podcast

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we welcome Josh Block. Josh is the

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former president of Block Imaging, a

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medical imaging equipment company that

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grew from about 30 million to over $200

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million under his leadership. What makes

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Josh's leadership journey so unique is

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how he suddenly went from sales rep to

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president in a single weekend at 29

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years old. Out of this unexpected crash

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course in leadership, Josh realized that

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the speed of the leader is the speed of

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the team. So he built a simple framework

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he calls the three T's together,

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thoughtful, and transparent. In his

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book, People Matter at Work, he unpacks

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the three T's and challenges leaders to

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see how their leadership shapes culture,

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performance, and the people around them.

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Join us and learn how the most

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successful companies in the world are

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building from the inside out.

Welcome Josh Block

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Josh, thank you for being on the Servant

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Leadership Podcast.

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Thank you for having me. It's good to be

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here.

Josh's Leadership Journey

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You fell into running a company in an

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absolutely crazy way. talk a little bit

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about your journey and what led you to

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leading Block Imaging.

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Yeah, so was a sales rep in Muny,

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Indiana. Thought we'd live there

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forever. We're living in the inner city.

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Had rehabbed some homes and we're doing

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all sorts of really fun stuff there. And

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decided to pick up and move our family

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to Lancing. Thought I'd be a sales rep,

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maybe be groomed into a leadership role

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over five or 10 years. And within four

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months, we had a family emergency. and

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uh went from a Friday as a sales rep to

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president on a Monday. So I was 29 years

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old. Company was about $30 million in

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revenue and that was the start of my

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leadership journey.

Handling Sudden Leadership

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I mean, how did you handle that

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conversation that weekend as you're

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trying to figure out like what in the

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world did I just fall into?

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Well, it it gave me purpose like oh,

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maybe this is why we moved to Lancing.

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So that was the positive. I remember one

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night, one sleepless night, staring at

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the ceiling, knowing Monday morning was

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coming and and just feeling so young. I

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think that was probably one of the parts

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that I don't think I could grow a beard

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like I do now and didn't have as many

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gray hairs, but that whole idea of like

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what does it look like to lead knowing

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so little, right? I mean, there was so

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much that I didn't know very much about.

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And so like we're starting with humility

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and going, "Hey, we're going to need to

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row together to to move the company

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forward." And so yeah, it it was one

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sleepless night and a lot of humble pie

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at the beginning.

Family Business Dynamics

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How did they decide on you becoming

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president versus Didn't you have other

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siblings and stuff maybe in the

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business?

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Yeah, I have two older brothers in the

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business and one younger brother and uh

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you'll have to ask my dad that question

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when you talk to him. But um but yeah,

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each of us have a different skill set

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and gifts and and to this day, three of

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us are still in the business 15 years

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later. And so I'm incredibly grateful

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for the way each of those three brothers

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have supported not just the leadership

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of the organization over the last 15

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years, but ultimately the writing of the

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book as well.

Challenges of Family Business

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Wow. I mean, when people talk about

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family business, right, which Black

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Imaging truly is a family business, uh

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that comes with a lot of connotations,

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good and bad.

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Sure. talk about both the good and the

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bad. Yeah, I mean the the the hard part

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is that most people look to people with

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the last name block and they immediately

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do what they say and and one thing that

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our our family has really sought to do

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is operate in our roles is that um one

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of my brothers oversees our women's

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health team, one of my brothers oversees

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uh equipment sales and another brother

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was in project management and yet just

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trying to our our family just I'm

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grateful for their humility of just

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operating in their role and each of us

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have done that including myself up to

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recently uh transitioning from a

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president role to an advisory role and

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so again just really trying to submit to

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strengths and protect weaknesses is

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something we talk about a lot.

Company Growth and Success

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Wow. So the company over the last 15

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years has grown like crazy.

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It's been unbelievable from the outside

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even just to think of the kind of growth

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you've been through that led to a book.

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But talk about before even the book like

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how did you actually grow so

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substantially so quickly?

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Yeah. So we've moved from about 30

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million in 2011 to 215 million today.

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And and the book is really written out

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of this belief that like what if we

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could create a place where people love

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to work and not because it's easy but

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because I'm challenged to become a

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person I never dreamed of. And so that

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was really the question in 2011 and and

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that has led to creating a thriving team

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culture, people who take ownership and

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that ownership is what has led to people

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serving customers and expanding the

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solutions we offer and ultimately the

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growth that we've experienced.

Writing the Book

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Did you know you were going to write a

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book as this was growing or how did that

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even come about? I mean the the the

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three T's that I talk about in people

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matter at work. The first is together

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and together was a necessity there

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because of what I didn't know. It was

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like looking to the people and saying

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what would you do if you were in my

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shoes and and there was no way to fake

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it. I mean it would have been an abysmal

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failure. And so it's forced humility and

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this idea of like together's the first T

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is is working together to sharpen any

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decision of consequence. And we're not

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going all the way to to democracy, but

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we're certainly not dictators. And then

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the second T was something that was

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within my core and I didn't even really

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know where it came from, but this word

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thoughtful and everybody tries to be

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thoughtful and nobody tries to be

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haphazard. But like 5 years in after

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trying to make thoughtful decisions, I

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came across like a dictionary and it

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said use careful consideration for the

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needs of others.

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Like what does it look like for every

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decision with I have a corner office

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today and I have a comfortable chair and

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I have the temperature. I have a

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thermostat in my office. You know, all

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those things, but like what is it like

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to be on the other side of a decision

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and care about the things that I used to

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care about or are important to the

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people I'm leading? So, that was

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thoughtful. And then the third one that

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I tripped into was transparent. It's

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just so many leaders hold so much back

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from their people and and it's really a

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picture of trust. Do we trust you enough

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to have information? And so

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transparency, but no, at the beginning

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there was not a book. It was it was 10

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years in that I started to feel like a

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tap on my shoulder that hey, this might

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be a story we're sharing

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with lessons and mistakes and then

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ultimately kind of the the principles

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we've carried to not manipulate people

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but really to embody my belief that

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people matter more. M when when I first

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bumped into you, you were on a stage in

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uh in Orlando talking about your story a

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little bit and one of the things that I

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was thinking was I wonder how many

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people think they're doing these things

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well.

Perception vs. Reality

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Sure.

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But really the people who they're

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leading think that they're not doing it

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well at all. Have you wrestled with that

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at all?

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Yeah. And anytime I do a keynote I'll

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ask the leaders like how many of you

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care about your people? Yeah. and like

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99% or 100% raise their hand. And yet,

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if I were to take the people they're

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leading and say, "How many of you feel

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cared for?"

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I don't think it'd be 100%.

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And so, the this book really is seeking

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to close the gap between intention, my

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desire, and my care and actually

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implementing or my impact on you is how

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do we close that gap, especially in the

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stress of quarterly returns and and

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performance goals and and metrics and

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KPIs and all that sort of stuff. How

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does my care shine through in moments

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really big and and sometimes really

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small?

Implementing the Three T's

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What are some ways you've seen that work

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at Block or with other people that

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you've been advising?

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Yeah, I mean, for me, it's it's slowing

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down and moving at the pace of people

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and in every one-on-one that takes place

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for years and years. It's a question

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that's drawn from the coaching habit and

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and I absolutely love it is what's on

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your mind? What's on your mind? And and

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what I love is it brings personal and

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professional and and you never know what

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people are going to say. But I think

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once people say whatever's on their

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mind, which sometimes is their daughter

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has a softball game, sometimes uh a team

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member that I talk a lot about in this

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book, Emily, she is she has a scan

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tonight to to learn about her cancer,

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right? So, she said been battling cancer

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for 7 years and she is going to find out

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whether she's going to be treated again

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or whether she can continue forward with

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the plan that they're on. And it's like

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an awareness of what's going on in

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Emily's life is so significant from an

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empathy perspective. And it doesn't mean

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that we're not going to talk about

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performance. It does. She leads our part

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sales team. There are lots of things

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that are important there. But just

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seeing the humanity and I was on a

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podcast recently where they're talking

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about head counts. Yeah. Yeah, see those

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heads like ah I don't know maybe call

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them hearts or something like that but I

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mean to start with people is that just

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understanding people's stories and with

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a team of 400 like sometimes I even have

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this imaginative empathy is I don't know

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you know I know a small fraction of

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what's going on in people's lives but

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just imagine like just imagine in the

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marriages in the children in the health

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care situations in the financial stories

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uh in in the greater family what people

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are going through and it really does

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impact the way then we tackle business

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operations and strategy and

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conversations.

Servant Leadership and Culture

0:09:47
It's like a lot of people listening uh

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to this podcast and that have listened

0:09:52
for a long time. They're thinking about

0:09:53
this through the lens of servant

0:09:55
leadership, right? And talking about how

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people matter at work,

0:09:59
that's the epitome maybe of servant

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leadership or the starting point. As you

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thought through this book, it was going

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to come up with your team that you're

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going to write it and some of them were

0:10:09
going to be involved in it. How did that

0:10:11
conversation go telling people, I think

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I care for you? Well, I think I'm

0:10:15
writing a book for. But like what did

0:10:17
that look like?

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Yeah, I mean this has been a six-year

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process. So, you know, many of the team

0:10:21
members have joined since I started

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writing the book. But one of the pieces

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as as I share in the book and we talk

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about in all team meetings, one of the

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the most challenging parts of pursuing a

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healthy culture is the only thing worse

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than working for a toxic organization is

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having a toxic experience at a healthy

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organization cuz then you're kind of

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this one, you know, the more people kind

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of beat their chest with, oh, we're

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we're healthy and we're great and we're

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strong. And so for me in the book and

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also in person in all team meetings is

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we're imperfect even with extremely high

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engagement like 97% plus when we get

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those results which is really my report

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card. We want to know about the 3% who

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are struggling. Why? Where? And and we

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really have even though the surveys are

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anonymous, we really want to invite

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people to the table because the only way

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we can solve and close the gap is if we

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know who those people are. And so I

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would say that rather than like

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celebrating the 97%, it's standing in

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front of the team and just saying we're

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imperfect.

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Money matters more would be a way easier

0:11:20
mission because you just put it in a

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spreadsheet. It calculates sums. People

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are complex and it is a mission. Those

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two words, people matter, which is the

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heart of our mission. They invite us to

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be better every day.

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They challenge us and we know that we

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will never arrive.

Block Imaging Overview

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Wow. Explain at a high level for

0:11:39
listeners what the company does.

0:11:43
Yeah. So, we started as a refurbished

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equipment organization. So, MRIs, uh, CT

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scanners, mamography, C arms, X-ray,

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anything in the world of imaging or

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radiology. And then as we grew, we moved

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into the parts space. So the the the we

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would actually tear systems down, test

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them, validate them, and then then

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resell parts. And then uh as I'm

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reminded by a quote by Trick Cathy, is

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that if we get better, our customers

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will demand we get bigger. So our

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customers were asking us to get into

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service. And so we have service

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contracts and then we were acquired in

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2023 by Seammen's Healthcare and Common

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Spirit Health. A joint venture that has

0:12:21
created some enormous synergies, allowed

0:12:23
us to double in size, but we're really

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the short answer is we're in radiology

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and imaging, equipment, parts and

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service.

Living the Three T's

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So when people are showing up in this

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world with the 3Ts in mind, how do you

0:12:35
see them live this out differently than

0:12:37
maybe if they were in another industry?

0:12:39
Yeah, I mean together, right? the the

0:12:41
whole idea of this apex leader who's a

0:12:44
cowboy in silos and I mean together

0:12:46
invites us into sharpening ideas all the

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way to the very end sometimes being the

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last sighting end of the rifle before a

0:12:53
decision's made thoughtful I mean there

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just so many situations in people's

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lives I share about some in the book um

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where it they're just dire situations

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happening all the time all kinds of

0:13:05
struggles from children's diagnosis I

0:13:08
think of health and we're in healthcare

0:13:09
so it's just a conversation we're having

0:13:11
all the time. Um, and especially as you

0:13:13
get older. So, yeah, we see thoughtful

0:13:15
is like slowing down and meeting someone

0:13:17
where they are when they're going

0:13:18
through a difficult time, celebrating

0:13:20
when uh when we're getting ready for

0:13:23
Valentine's Day or whatever it is. And

0:13:25
then the last is transparency is just

0:13:27
sharing openly. And what we've seen when

0:13:29
we do that is it leads to people feeling

0:13:32
safe, seen, and successful. And there's

0:13:34
you know even if you follow Maslo's

0:13:36
hierarchy of needs like safe seen

0:13:37
successful is really uh what we've seen

0:13:40
experienced. And then the last piece of

0:13:42
the wei cycle that I talk about people

0:13:44
matter at work is that when people feel

0:13:46
safe seen and successful trust builds

0:13:49
ownership deepens and then generosity

0:13:52
grows and when I say generosity they

0:13:55
give back they invest. They act like an

0:13:57
owner and then when they do that it

0:13:59
lightens the load for the leader. And so

0:14:01
this isn't really a book that says

0:14:02
leaders just work harder, carry more,

0:14:05
uh, you know, increase pressure. It's

0:14:07
really if we do this, it starts to

0:14:09
spread the burden across the

0:14:10
organization.

Exercises for Team Building

0:14:11
Yeah. I know you talked about thinking

0:14:13
differently, but are there some

0:14:16
exercises that you do as a team to help

0:14:19
flex any of those tea muscles?

0:14:21
Yeah, one of one of the pieces is block

0:14:24
university. Everybody who joins our

0:14:26
organization hears about our history and

0:14:28
our culture, why we chose them and uh

0:14:31
here's kind of the vision of where we're

0:14:32
going. So, Block University is really

0:14:34
key. As part of that, everyone reads

0:14:36
Leadership and Self-Deception.

0:14:38
It's a book written by the Arbinger

0:14:40
Institute. It's the only book that

0:14:41
everyone at block imaging reads and we

0:14:43
go through a book club at the end of

0:14:44
block.

0:14:45
The second thing that stands out is to

0:14:47
create a question asking culture. Uh,

0:14:50
one of the things that was unique about

0:14:52
my relationship with my dad is I would

0:14:54
have the courage to ask him questions.

0:14:56
Why do we do it this way? What's, you

0:14:58
know, why why do we go here or there or

0:14:59
whatever? And that led to more context

0:15:02
that then led to better questions. And

0:15:04
so I think when you do have a question

0:15:07
asking culture I talk about in the book

0:15:08
just a bunch of benefits come every all

0:15:11
team meeting every one-on-one that we

0:15:13
have we are we are creating open space

0:15:16
and kind of some people say well I

0:15:18
created open space and nobody asked

0:15:19
questions and it's like no it's my

0:15:22
expectation of you that you ask

0:15:24
questions and if you ask people to ask

0:15:27
questions and are expectant they will

0:15:29
ask questions and then if you answer

0:15:30
them honestly you will eventually have a

0:15:32
a question asking culture. Wow. What was

0:15:35
it like engaging in this knowing like

0:15:39
taking over for your dad? What was that

0:15:41
relationship like?

Transitioning Leadership

0:15:42
Yeah. So, we we have different styles

0:15:45
and I think it it's fascinating to look

0:15:48
at company life cycles and what it took

0:15:50
to bring a company from 0 to 30 million

0:15:53
and then to go from 30 to 100 and then

0:15:55
ultimately to double in the last 2 years

0:15:58
is different skill sets are needed,

0:16:00
right? kind of the cowboy at the

0:16:01
beginning, the aggressive like what they

0:16:03
talk about the founders mentality and

0:16:05
then you need like this this

0:16:07
stabilization in the midst of growth and

0:16:09
then ultimately you need this

0:16:10
professionalization and so yeah it's

0:16:12
been a it's been an interesting ride and

0:16:14
he I take joy in what he has done to get

0:16:18
us to this point and then he takes a lot

0:16:20
of joy in what the second generation has

0:16:22
done to grow us to where we are today.

Future Generations

0:16:24
How do you think about like future

0:16:26
generations entering the business or

0:16:28
even just how other people should be

0:16:30
thinking about future generations?

0:16:31
Yeah, I I think about family businesses

0:16:33
a lot. I think the acquisition gave us a

0:16:35
incredibly cool opportunity to grow. We

0:16:38
also um own a mobile MRI and CT business

0:16:41
called Cube Mobile Imaging. It was block

0:16:44
imaging, block mobile imaging. We

0:16:46
couldn't have two block imaging. So, we

0:16:47
decided that the cute way was to move it

0:16:49
from block to cube. And so my thought

0:16:52
that's a that's a business with 30

0:16:53
mobile MRIs and CT scan scanner systems

0:16:57
and I can see that being a business that

0:16:59
potentially one of the the blocks my my

0:17:02
parents have 25 grandkids so I can see

0:17:04
the family kind of leading that forward

0:17:06
into the next generation.

Maintaining Family Alignment

0:17:07
Wow. How do you keep such good and I

0:17:10
know you talked about the humility that

0:17:11
all of your generation have had to step

0:17:13
into um and thankfully took well but

0:17:16
when you talk about how the family just

0:17:18
continues to expand how do you do that

0:17:20
well and keep everyone aligned

0:17:22
missionally like family missionally.

0:17:24
Yeah. So for me one of the things that

0:17:27
is super helpful is to to dream about

0:17:30
the future and and I think of it through

0:17:32
the lens of richly imagine future or

0:17:34
future memories. this concept that

0:17:36
future memories are as important as past

0:17:38
memories. And so we talk about like and

0:17:41
I some people might call me crazy, but

0:17:42
this vision of like what do I want my

0:17:45
daughter's wedding to look like? So

0:17:47
she's 18 years old today. And when I

0:17:49
when she was 12, I began to draw what do

0:17:53
I want that day to look like? What do I

0:17:55
want our relationship to be? What do I

0:17:56
want my relationship with my wife to be?

0:17:58
What do I want my relationship with our

0:18:00
team to look like? I've had the

0:18:02
privilege of marrying two of our team

0:18:03
members. not marrying them but marrying

0:18:05
them being the officient and I've just

0:18:08
desired those sorts of relationships but

0:18:10
ultimately looking at the future in five

0:18:14
or 10 or 15 years what do I want that to

0:18:16
look like because those sorts of visions

0:18:18
then we can reverse engineer and what

0:18:20
are the sorts of actions and attitudes

0:18:22
and behaviors that I need to walk into

0:18:24
to make that a reality.

Future Visioning

0:18:26
Wow, I love that. I've never even

0:18:28
thought of that. As people are listening

0:18:29
to that, they might also be thinking,

0:18:31
"Boy, that's a really good idea." When

0:18:33
you envision those visions of let's say

0:18:35
10, 15, 20 years down the road,

0:18:37
how often are they actually where you

0:18:39
end up or or is it more like, hey, this

0:18:42
is the season we're in. I'm visioning

0:18:43
this and we're moving towards it, but

0:18:44
things change. And

0:18:45
yeah, things change, but I think that

0:18:47
you miss 100% of the shots you don't

0:18:49
take. and this idea of like um yeah, I'm

0:18:54
way beyond what I to be on this podcast

0:18:56
to be sitting with this book right here.

0:18:59
Uh to have a team of 400, to have an

0:19:02
18-year-old in college. I mean, just to

0:19:04
unbelievable, right? I I joke I mean, we

0:19:07
you and I talked about this before, but

0:19:08
I I drive a Tesla that is full

0:19:11
self-driving. It drove me here. So,

0:19:12
like, we're way beyond anything I ever

0:19:14
imagined, but uh but it it leads me

0:19:17
well. And and I would invite others to

0:19:19
think about like what do you want your

0:19:22
business to look like? What do you want

0:19:23
your team to look like? What do you want

0:19:24
your family to look like? And since

0:19:26
you're fascinated by this this future

0:19:28
vision idea, I have this picture. This

0:19:30
is before chat GPT. You can now have

0:19:33
ChatGpt draw a picture for you and you

0:19:35
could actually have a a pretty accurate

0:19:38
u artistic rendering. But I have this

0:19:41
picture of myself at it's probably 10

0:19:43
years from today. I'm grilling out on

0:19:46
the back deck. My wife is setting the

0:19:49
table for dinner. She's got a couple

0:19:51
grandkids around her feet. And my son

0:19:53
and daughter are playing cornhole with

0:19:55
their spouses.

0:19:57
There's a there's a boat in the

0:19:59
distance. It's over a lake. And after

0:20:01
dinner grilling some fillets or whatever

0:20:03
we decide to grill, um we take the kids

0:20:05
out, the grandkids, and we teach them

0:20:07
how to water ski.

Servant Leadership in Practice

0:20:08
Wow. And so for me, I know we're a

0:20:10
little off track the servant leadership

0:20:12
side, but like for me that my children

0:20:14
would want to play cornhole together,

0:20:15
that they'd want to come home as Andy

0:20:17
Stanley talks about when they don't have

0:20:19
to anymore.

0:20:20
Yeah.

0:20:20
And that my grandkids would want to be

0:20:22
with my wife, that my wife would want to

0:20:24
be with me, right? All of those things

0:20:26
are kind of a picture that I've put into

0:20:27
Chad GPT since. But, uh, that that is

0:20:30
what kind of leads me into who who I

0:20:32
want to be as as a husband, as a father,

0:20:35
and as a leader.

0:20:36
Wow. I mean, I think it plays perfectly

0:20:38
into servant leadership because really

0:20:40
trying to think through how the

0:20:42
decisions you're making today affect the

0:20:44
lives of those you're leading or those

0:20:46
around you. I mean, it's the epitome of

0:20:48
servant leadership.

0:20:49
It's not it's not about me. I'm

0:20:50
grilling. I mean, the steaks are going

0:20:53
to be perfect, don't get me wrong, but

0:20:54
uh but yeah, it's it that most of that

0:20:57
picture is not about me.

Helping Other Leaders

0:20:58
Yeah. I love that. is one of the things

0:21:01
that I know that you're starting to do

0:21:03
more and more is help other leaders like

0:21:08
me and many others maybe listening to

0:21:10
this think about how people matter more,

0:21:12
right? And that's the whole point of the

0:21:14
book.

0:21:15
What are the biggest things that you're

0:21:16
hoping people change about what they're

0:21:18
doing today versus where they might be a

0:21:20
year from now? Yeah, I I think the the

0:21:23
resentment that grows with leadership is

0:21:26
that what I'm seeing a lot is that I I

0:21:28
was trained to be a technician of some

0:21:30
sort, an accountant or a lawyer or

0:21:33
whatever whatever your background is,

0:21:34
maybe an MRI tech, and you spent like 2

0:21:37
years, four years, 6 years, whatever it

0:21:39
is, becoming a technician. And then

0:21:41
because you showed up on time, because

0:21:43
you're relatively kind to other people,

0:21:45
maybe organized, you get named a leader.

0:21:48
You're handed a business card. You're a

0:21:50
director. You're a manager. you're a

0:21:51
team lead, whatever you are. And it's

0:21:53
kind of wild like the thing you're

0:21:55
responsible for is leading people and

0:21:57
you have almost no training and

0:21:58
development and just go pick a

0:22:00
bestseller off of Amazon and and see if

0:22:02
if that'll teach you how to lead, you

0:22:03
know? And so my hope is that regardless

0:22:06
of where you are on the spectrum of

0:22:08
leadership, if you're a new leader, that

0:22:10
it would equip you. And if you're

0:22:12
someone who's been leading for a long

0:22:14
time and like, man, I used to work with

0:22:15
my peers and now I kind of resent them

0:22:17
because all they do is complain up the

0:22:19
chain, then I would actually encourage

0:22:21
you to look at people in a different

0:22:23
light. To look at leadership and even

0:22:25
just this idea that like people are a

0:22:27
gift,

0:22:28
work is a privilege and leadership is

Promotions and Readiness

0:22:30
stewardship of both those things.

0:22:32
Wow. This doesn't feed exactly into

0:22:34
that, but it makes me think of this. A

0:22:36
lot of times people do get promoted into

0:22:38
roles that they're not ready for, right?

0:22:40
And it's like as as somebody leading

0:22:43
people, let's say if I promote somebody

0:22:45
within our organization

0:22:47
and they were 10 out of 10 at the thing

0:22:49
that they did before and now they move

0:22:51
into a leadership role and we're like,

0:22:52
"Oh no, we made a mistake." Whatever it

0:22:55
is,

Handling Leadership Gaps

0:22:56
what's what do you do? Do you do

0:22:59
everything you can to make them succeed

0:23:00
in that role? Do you help them adjust

0:23:02
back to where you know that they felt

0:23:03
like they were thriving? Like how do you

0:23:05
even handle that?

0:23:06
Yeah. the the two answers are to have a

0:23:08
strong organizational identity and to

0:23:10
have a picture of of what you're after

0:23:12
for leaders. So for us, we have the

0:23:13
three T's, our key to our approach. Um

0:23:16
we have the thriving mindsets and we

0:23:17
have our core values. And so what

0:23:19
happens is you have a bit of a standard

0:23:22
and in lots of organizations if you

0:23:24
don't have a standard it just becomes

0:23:25
about personality. Oh, do does Chris

0:23:28
like me? Do they get along? They're

0:23:29
cousins. They are, you know, they're

0:23:31
friends with so- and so who goes to

0:23:33
church together. That's how they got

0:23:34
promoted. Versus if we have what we call

0:23:36
the block bullseye,

Addressing Performance Gaps

0:23:38
we can actually have an honest

0:23:39
conversation and say, "Chris, you know,

0:23:42
you were you were lighting it on fire

0:23:44
when you were doing, you know, XYZ. Now

0:23:47
you're in leadership and you seem

0:23:48
exhausted and and you don't seem to be

0:23:50
enjoying it. Your people don't seem to

0:23:51
be enjoying it. We can actually talk

0:23:53
about the gap between where you are,

0:23:55
where we'd like you to be, and then

0:23:56
decide, is this a gap we want to close?"

0:23:59
Or there are times where we look at

0:24:00
someone and just say we might want to go

0:24:02
back to where you were in your previous

0:24:03
role because you were thriving there and

0:24:05
you're not thriving as a leader.

Difficult Conversations

0:24:07
Those are tough conversations. You know,

0:24:08
when I think through the transparency

0:24:10
side of the TE's, it's like it's not

0:24:12
only transparent about where the

0:24:14
organization is going, but it's those

0:24:16
difficult conversations. Uh as you think

0:24:18
through difficult conversations,

0:24:21
obviously people don't like them because

0:24:23
they're difficult. Um, what are some

0:24:26
examples of things that you've seen be

0:24:28
really difficult conversations? You

0:24:30
don't have to name names or anything,

0:24:31
but where it's like, man, it was so

0:24:32
worth having that conversation after the

0:24:35
fact.

Value of Honest Feedback

0:24:35
Yeah. I mean, how many of you would like

0:24:37
to have food on your face and have

0:24:39
nobody tell you, right? None of us. And

0:24:41
so, I think that one of the reasons why

0:24:43
difficult conversations are difficult is

0:24:45
is is because we don't have them often

0:24:48
enough. is that when they're done with

0:24:50
out of out of deep belief

0:24:53
that I'm challenging you because I I one

0:24:56
believe that you're capable and two this

0:24:59
is the standard that we've set for

0:25:01
whatever the area in the business is is

0:25:03
that it's actually like I think of

0:25:05
sometimes people think of like pushing

0:25:07
people and I would say like we're

0:25:09
inviting people like come on like almost

0:25:10
like you would invite a child who's just

0:25:12
learning to walk you you you don't see

0:25:14
them fall and tell them you know how

0:25:16
embarrassing it is that at whatever age

0:25:18
that you can't walk, right? When they

0:25:20
stumble, like we grab their hand and we

0:25:21
invite them and we beckon them on. And

0:25:24
then there are times where the gap can't

0:25:26
be closed that it's just um it's a poor

0:25:29
fit. And in that situation, I think it's

0:25:31
our job to just have consistent

0:25:33
conversations and one of two things, one

0:25:35
of three things really happen. One, they

0:25:37
do close the gap. And Tyler's story is

0:25:39
in this book of where we had a very high

0:25:41
stakes conversation and he closed the

0:25:44
gap in in a remarkable way. And so that

0:25:46
was really fun. It's a bit rare, but

0:25:48
super fun. The second is that they

0:25:51
actually depart on their own. They just

0:25:53
say, "You know what? Chris, Chris is not

0:25:56
going to give up." Like, "This this the

0:25:58
gap is here. It's not closing." And he's

0:26:00
continuing to talk about it. And then

0:26:02
they just magically find themselves

0:26:04
giving their two weeks notice. And you

0:26:06
look at them and you just kind of go,

0:26:07
"Okay, good. I didn't have to let you

0:26:09
go." You feel you got to hear the areas

0:26:12
that I was concerned about. And

0:26:13
hopefully you put them into place in the

0:26:15
next place you work. And then the third

0:26:16
is the most difficult

Closure in Leadership Roles

0:26:18
and that's sitting down and just saying

0:26:20
hey I think it's time to bring closure

0:26:22
to to to your time in this organization.

0:26:25
It's very sensitive but if you have been

0:26:27
very clear throughout it's more of a

0:26:32
it's more of a natural evolution of a

0:26:35
conversation than it is totally shocking

0:26:37
someone on a Thursday afternoon. And I

0:26:39
think when we've done it well it

0:26:41
shouldn't be a surprise. It shouldn't be

0:26:42
more like, you know what, I'm

0:26:44
disappointed, you're disappointed, and

0:26:46
we're we're bringing close to this

0:26:47
chapter and we're actually encouraging

0:26:49
someone as they move on to the next

0:26:50
season.

Avoiding Surprises in Decisions

0:26:52
That's one thing that we've talked a lot

0:26:53
about over the years is how do you make

0:26:55
sure that people aren't surprised by the

0:26:57
decisions you make that could affect

0:26:58
their life and their livelihood. One of

0:27:00
the things that I think I personally

0:27:02
have always struggled with and maybe

0:27:03
others listening have is two people can

0:27:06
be looking at the same scenario and see

0:27:08
drastically different stories, right, of

0:27:11
like what is actually playing out. I

0:27:13
could be saying this is what I want and

0:27:14
somebody could say that's exactly what

0:27:16
I'm doing and it's not what I feel. How

0:27:19
do you even handle that?

Assessing Organizational Gaps

0:27:20
Yeah. I mean when we we have the the

0:27:23
organizational identity that we've

0:27:24
talked about and I am going to be the

0:27:27
one who's assessing the gap. I mean,

0:27:29
your your opinion is interesting. It's

0:27:31
just not all that compelling. It doesn't

0:27:32
mean that we can't have a conversation

0:27:33
about it, but I am going to be the

0:27:36
referee in this situation. But at least

0:27:38
when we give a clear path, I've never

0:27:40
had that happen before. I've never had

0:27:42
someone look at me and go, uh, we've

0:27:44
talked about blame and responsibility,

0:27:46
which is one of our thriving mindsets,

0:27:48
and I reference the way that they're

0:27:50
blaming someone, and they just go, I

0:27:52
totally disagree. I've I've never had

0:27:54
that happen in my career. But you but

0:27:56
again it's when you have the standard or

0:27:59
when you have some clear values it's

0:28:01
much easier to hold people accountable

0:28:03
to those than when it's very

0:28:05
preferential and it's it's a creative

0:28:07
we're talking about principles and the

0:28:09
implementation of these principles more

0:28:11
than we're talking about deliverables

0:28:12
and quality and that that's a different

0:28:14
set very important but I am uh for lack

0:28:17
of a better word I am the referee at the

0:28:19
end of the day in that one you know

Building a Leadership Team

0:28:21
that's that's so good I how did you go

0:28:23
about building your leader leadership

0:28:25
team, right? Cuz to build an

0:28:27
organization and move it from 30 million

0:28:29
to significantly more, that takes

0:28:32
amazing leaders all around you.

0:28:34
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first step is to

0:28:36
embody it ourselves. Like when John

0:28:39
Maxwell talks about the speed of the

0:28:41
leader, the speed of the team, totally

0:28:43
believe that's true. And I believe the

0:28:45
blank of the leader is the blank of the

0:28:46
team. And in every way, the integrity,

0:28:49
the innovation, the ambition, you know,

0:28:52
fill in the blank. And that's that over

0:28:54
time that's the team we will have. And

0:28:56
so we have eight leaders and again I

0:28:58
don't want to beat a dead horse but it

0:29:00
goes right back to our organizational

0:29:01
identity. These are people that we have

0:29:04
given them more and they have continued

0:29:06
to shape the future which is one of our

0:29:08
thriving mindsets. They've they've

0:29:09
carried an abundant lens versus a

0:29:12
scarcity lens. They've taken

0:29:14
responsibility. Uh they work well with

0:29:16
others. They honor and they ultimately

0:29:19
live out our mission really really well.

0:29:21
And that's what leads to promotion in

0:29:23
the organization. And so again, our hope

0:29:25
is to reverse engineer and demystify so

0:29:28
that when someone's finding success, we

0:29:30
don't have to it doesn't go back to like

0:29:32
a kickball contest in fifth grade. It's

0:29:34
like this bullseye is the guide for

0:29:36
success in our organization,

Recognizing Leadership Qualities

0:29:38
right? Are you calling that out all the

0:29:40
time when you see it or how do people

0:29:42
when you have a team so big, hundreds of

0:29:44
people, how do you actually call that

0:29:46
out where everyone is seeing that and

0:29:47
calling that out in each other? If if

0:29:49
there was one thing that keeps me awake

0:29:51
at night, it is the thought that the

0:29:52
person who is reporting into a leader

0:29:55
who's reporting into a leader who's

0:29:56
maybe six layers from myself that their

0:29:59
experience is drastically different.

0:30:01
It's the risk of writing a book, right?

0:30:03
People matter. Yeah. Right. My that if

0:30:06
people mattered last Thursday, my boss

0:30:09
wouldn't have said this to me. And so

0:30:10
that that is one of the tricky parts.

0:30:12
Frankly, it's one of the reasons I've

0:30:14
written the book is to hold us

0:30:15
accountable and to our invite our

0:30:17
leaders into living it out. Um, but

0:30:19
yeah, it is so important that people

0:30:21
don't leave organizations, they leave

0:30:23
leaders. And so it's it's so crucial

0:30:25
that each one of our leaders is seeking

0:30:28
to embody imperfectly but intently the

0:30:31
the three Ts, the thriving mindsets, and

0:30:33
ultimately walking out our mission and

0:30:36
treating people as they as you'd like to

0:30:38
be treated, treating people as they'd

0:30:39
like to be treated. M

Importance of Storytelling

0:30:41
um sometimes I think we make it harder

0:30:43
than it needs to be.

0:30:44
Yeah. One of the things that I love

0:30:47
about your style and things you've done

0:30:49
is well there's two uh one you share a

0:30:52
lot of stories and I know you do this in

0:30:54
the book but two um there's stories

0:30:57
about other people and how they really

0:31:00
have elevated the organization right and

0:31:02
I know um elevating the leaders around

0:31:04
you has made you a better leader.

Elevating Others

0:31:07
How do you help? And maybe it's just you

0:31:09
just keep grinding it in, but like is it

0:31:12
hard for people to think through I need

0:31:14
to elevate the people around me,

0:31:16
therefore I might be elevated versus

0:31:18
just have that self-driving mindset that

0:31:20
it's like I need to look out for myself.

0:31:22
Yeah. I mean, Simon Synynic talks about

0:31:24
in the military, you you sacrifice your

0:31:26
life and you get medals. In the

0:31:27
corporate world, you sacrifice others

0:31:29
and you get promotions, right? And and

0:31:32
there's a the right toward the end of

0:31:34
the book, there's a a poem by

0:31:36
Lau uh Chinese philosopher and it talks

0:31:40
about going to the people, loving them,

0:31:42
living with them, uh working alongside

0:31:45
them. But my favorite is at the very end

0:31:46
it says of the best leaders when the

0:31:48
task is done, the job is complete, the

0:31:50
people will say we did it ourselves.

Future Vision

0:31:53
And so that really even though it's at

0:31:54
the end of the book, it is deep within

0:31:56
me is that this isn't about me. This is

0:31:59
about other people's stories and

0:32:01
ultimately them carrying ownership and

0:32:04
and really amazing things start to

0:32:06
happen when we lead like that.

0:32:07
Wow. When you think through this message

0:32:11
and obviously it's been important within

0:32:12
your organization and I know it's

0:32:14
becoming important for a lot of other

0:32:15
people to think about what does the

0:32:17
future look like for you?

Personal and Organizational Goals

0:32:20
Yeah. I mean for for me personally or

0:32:22
Yeah. you and the vision of people

0:32:23
matter and where it's going.

0:32:25
Yeah. We're at the starting point. The

0:32:26
launch is is March 3rd. And so I hope

0:32:29
it's just like I talked about it's an

0:32:31
invitation is like to close the gap

0:32:33
between our intention and our impact.

0:32:35
And so I imagine when people are putting

0:32:38
organizational identities together, this

0:32:39
is no one's asked me this question yet,

0:32:41
but I think in in a number of years that

0:32:43
people would want to become people

0:32:44
matter companies that they would

0:32:46
recognize that there's there's a legacy,

0:32:49
there's value and worth in putting

0:32:50
people first and subsequently

0:32:53
performance has followed. We're not

0:32:55
talking about just the soft ooey gooey

0:32:57
water slides and and you know smoothie

0:32:59
days. We're talking about like we're

0:33:02
talking about challenging people to

0:33:03
become more than they ever dreamed of

0:33:05
taking ownership and moving a business

0:33:07
forward in significant ways. And my

0:33:10
dream is that they look back in 10

0:33:11
years. We have a story uh Chris Shurock

0:33:14
who's one of our leaders today. He came

0:33:16
to our organization for a summer job

0:33:20
20 years ago and he thought he was going

0:33:22
to go back to LA and be in film school

0:33:25
and his first day was picking up acorns

0:33:27
off the ground at our headquarters

0:33:30
and 20 years later he's leading an a

0:33:33
global healthcare sales organization.

Success Stories

0:33:36
Wow.

0:33:36
With a a significant team. And so like

0:33:39
seeing stories like that and so when

0:33:41
people say culture like it's the soft

0:33:44
stuff. We have some people in our

0:33:45
organization who've been here 20 years

0:33:47
who are some of the most knowledgeable

0:33:49
people in the world when it comes to

0:33:51
imaging parts or imaging equipment or

0:33:52
whatever it is. I can't think of

0:33:54
anything that's more enjoyable than

0:33:56
that.

Rapid Fire Questions

0:33:56
Wow, that's amazing. Well, I want to

0:33:59
finish with 10 rapid fire questions

0:34:02
and you just say the first thing that

0:34:03
comes to mind. No wrong answer. Okay.

0:34:05
Who's the first person you think of when

0:34:08
I say servant leadership?

0:34:10
Patrick Lancion.

0:34:11
Love it. Five words that most describe

0:34:13
you.

0:34:14
I want to honor people. Well,

0:34:16
all right. Favorite book or author?

0:34:20
Oh man, I feel like it's a cheating

0:34:21
answer, but Five Dysfunctions of a team

0:34:23
was really significant in my life.

0:34:25
So good. Um, favorite food?

0:34:28
Cheetos and Cherry Coke.

0:34:30
Love that. Um, favorite thing to do in

0:34:32
your free time?

0:34:33
I love to wake surf with my family.

0:34:35
Wow. Any good spots for that?

0:34:37
Uh, we we are up in Fenton, Michigan is

0:34:40
where we wake surf. Wow. Um, what's a

0:34:43
surprising fact about you?

0:34:44
My mom had her tubes tied before I was

0:34:46
born.

0:34:47
Wow, that is surprising.

0:34:48
Yeah,

0:34:49
glad you're here.

0:34:50
I am. I'm glad to be here.

0:34:52
Uh, favorite place you've been?

0:34:55
I think Greece.

0:34:56
Okay. Um, anywhere in the world you want

0:34:59
to go that you have not been?

0:35:00
I would love to play golf in Ireland on

0:35:03
a non windy day.

0:35:05
That's going to be tough.

0:35:07
I know. That's why that's why I have a

0:35:08
caveat. Um, what's the best advice

0:35:11
you've ever received?

0:35:14
Honor your mother, no regrets.

0:35:17
Uh, and finally, podcast on servant

0:35:19
leadership. A lot of people are

0:35:21
listening to this through the lens of

0:35:22
servant leadership. Why is servant

0:35:25
leadership something that they should

0:35:27
care about?

Closing Thoughts

0:35:27
Because people matter more. I mean,

0:35:29
investing in people and and sacrificing

0:35:32
for people and choosing people and

0:35:33
honoring people is worth it every single

0:35:36
time.

0:35:36
Wow. Well, Josh, thank you for being on

0:35:39
the podcast and making the time. I'm so

0:35:41
pumped for our audience to read your

0:35:43
book. We're going to throw it in the

0:35:44
description for people to see uh if they

0:35:46
want to go read it and just thank you.

0:35:48
Yeah, thanks for h It's good to be with

0:35:50
you.

0:35:50
Yeah. Thank you for listening to this

0:35:52
episode of the Servant Leadership

0:35:54
Podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard,

0:35:57
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0:35:59
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