Mentor's Advice

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I had a mentor, Chris. I'll never forget

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when he told me this, but it was, "If

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you live for their praise, you will die

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by their criticism."

Introducing Adam Christing

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Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

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we welcome Adam Christing. Adam is an

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expert on helping people connect through

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humor. He's MCEd more than a thousand

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events and worked with some of the

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world's most respected leaders and

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organizations. Adam is the author of The

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Laughter Factor, where he breaks down

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how humor builds trust, lowers defenses,

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and creates meaningful connection

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through what he calls the five laugh

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languages. Join us as Adam shares why

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intentionality matters more than

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spontaneity, and why humor, when used

0:44
well, becomes a powerful display of

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servant leadership.

Adam Joins the Podcast

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Adam, thank you for joining the servant

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leadership podcast.

Adam's Appreciation for Chris

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Chris, I'm happy to be on. You may not

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know this, but you're one of my favorite

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humans, so I'm I'm excited to have a

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conversation with you about this.

Chris's Compliment to Adam

1:01
That's good. I've I've seen you talk so

1:03
many times and I know you said that to

1:04
everybody, so thank you. No,

Adam's Praise for Chris

1:08
at least the last 20 interviews you've

1:10
done. No, I do want to tell you it's

1:12
it's rare to meet someone who is u so

1:16
great at what they do, so skilled, but

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also has these leadership abilities and

1:23
a heart to serve other people. So, uh I

1:26
I wish I was interviewing you.

Chris and Adam's History

1:29
Well, that is very kind. We've had the

1:31
privilege over the years to get to know

1:33
each other a little bit and spend some

1:34
time together. The first time I saw you,

1:37
you were up on stage doing um we'll say

1:41
a you were MCing a big event for an

1:43
organization and I thought in my head,

1:46
how does somebody get into the

1:47
entertainment industry like this guy?

1:49
You know, not not knowing you or your

1:51
background at that point. Share with our

1:53
audience kind of what you have done and

1:56
what you do today.

Adam's Career Journey

1:59
Yes. I have to tell you, I've been doing

2:01
this about four decades. And, uh, my

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mom, who's 88 and probably the funniest

2:06
person I know, she asked me recently

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like, "Do you think you're going to get

2:09
a real a real job?" So, uh, so far so

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good. Uh, but yeah, I never sat down as

2:15
a kid and thought, "I want to be a

2:18
master of ceremonies when I grow up."

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But what happened is because I was the

2:23
class clown like in eighth grade in high

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school because I grew up learning to do

2:28
magic tricks in Los Angeles. There's

2:30
this great club called the Magic Castle.

2:33
And I grew up hanging out there. I kept

2:36
getting asked to host events like, "Hey,

2:37
would you host this talent show? Would

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you host this uh conference at the

2:41
church? Would you host this award show

2:43
for our company?" And since that time, I

2:46
don't even know the number. It's well

2:47
over a thousand events that I have MCEd.

Simply Clean Comedians

2:52
And then part of the journey, Chris,

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that's been fun and exciting is years

2:56
ago we started an entertainment company

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called Simply Clean Comedians.

Clean Comedy Philosophy

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And the motto is it doesn't have to be

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filthy to be funny. So, we book funny

3:08
entertainers, speakers, MC's, magicians,

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you name it, who get big laughs without

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getting dirty or offending your your

3:16
audience.

Importance of Clean Comedy

3:18
I feel like these days that is so

3:20
important and always has been. I

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remember my mom always looking up uh

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clean comedians. Then we would just

3:26
watch comedians on TV, but the key was

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that they were clean. Um, and it brings

3:30
the whole family in then, right? Even

3:32
kids as uh at a young age. I'm curious.

3:35
Um, you've been able to host a lot of

3:38
big events for a lot of major companies.

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On this podcast, we talk a ton about

3:42
servant leadership. What are some things

3:44
you've learned from a leadership

3:45
standpoint, being able to work with so

3:48
many other great leaders?

Lessons from Great Leaders

3:50
Yeah, I've been so privileged, Chris, to

3:53
hear not only hear the great speaking

3:57
uh New York Times bestselling authors

3:59
and CEOs and whatnot, but to also see

4:02
the way people lead people.

4:04
An event is more than just um some

4:07
speakers on stage. You're making a

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statement to your people. So, for

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example, next week I'll be with a number

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of leaders in the health and wellness

4:16
industry and to see the they've been

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working on this for months to see the

4:23
uh preparation and the intentionality of

4:26
saying what what is the messaging we

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want to get across. And so one of the

4:30
things I've learned goes back to another

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great comedian, maybe America's most

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important humorist, Mark Twain said, "It

4:37
takes me three weeks to prepare a good

4:40
impromptu speech." And so when we think

4:42
of comedians, we think, "Oh, they're

4:44
just so fast. They're quick on their

4:45
feet." But a great comedian, just like a

4:48
great leader,

Intentionality in Leadership

4:50
knows where she or he wants to take

4:53
people. And things can look and feel

4:55
very spontaneous, but it's about being

4:57
strategic. So when it comes to being a

5:00
servant leader,

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people the first thing they would say,

5:03
hey, it's an attitude. And it really is,

5:05
of course, but I think it's also being

5:08
intentional and saying the outcome that

5:11
we're seeking here is that people feel

5:13
served and they feel empowered. And so

5:16
the lesson I draw from other comedians

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is like the the late great Robin

5:20
Williams, he would carry this giant

5:24
notebook with him that was full of gags

5:26
and jokes and stories and quotes. And

5:29
from what I understand, I did not know

5:31
Robin personally, but I have friends who

5:33
did know him, is he would uh he would go

5:36
over it before he'd go on stage. So when

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his show started, it just felt electric

5:41
and spontaneous and and crazy, but it

5:44
was what he was putting into his head.

5:46
So one of the big lessons I've learned

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from leaders, whether they're corporate

5:50
leaders, nonprofit, or whether they're

5:53
leading comedians, is it can look

5:56
spontaneous, but it takes a lot of um to

5:60
use that word again, intentionality to

6:02
say this is the outcome that I want to

6:05
create. So, for example, let's say you

6:07
booked me for uh the Chris convention

6:10
and there's going to be 500 people.

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First thing I'd ask you is what's the um

6:15
feeling? What are the takeaways we want

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your attendees to have when they leave?

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And then to reverse engineer that.

Reading the Room

6:24
Wow. It's interesting. You read rooms

6:27
for a living, right? And you're talking

6:29
about this and comedians have to be able

6:31
to read the room. Um it's interesting in

6:34
one-on-one conversations. is I feel like

6:35
it's sometimes really easy to read

6:37
people, but reading a room is a whole

6:38
another skill set. And I'm curious, and

6:40
I really wanted to ask you this, when

6:42
you're thinking through, you always hear

6:43
people talk about one of the key skills

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to learning and growing is listening.

6:49
A comedian has to listen, but they're

6:52
always thinking of the next response,

6:55
right? Probably more so than other

6:57
people. How do you balance that steering

7:00
the conversation like you're talking

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about and getting the audience to where

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they go to while also truly listening to

7:05
what people are saying versus just

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listening to respond?

Importance of Listening

7:09
I love this question, Chris. In fact, I

7:12
don't I don't know that I've been asked

7:13
this. I think the pressure for a

7:17
comedian or a speaker or leader is to

7:19
say to yourself, I have to be funny. I

7:21
have to be quick. And you really don't.

7:24
I think listening if you give it that

7:27
extra beat. So the what I would do like

7:29
let's say I'm m seeing an event and I'm

7:31
sitting in the front row and and the

7:33
speaker is wrapping up and I know she's

7:36
about to end. Well, if she ends on a

7:39
emotional heavy note, I don't want to go

7:42
up there and be Mr. Funny Man. If she's

7:44
boring the audience, um I might need to

7:47
do some kind of an energy booster. So

7:50
more than reading the room is I want to

7:53
be like a thermometer of the feeling of

7:55
the room. It's like I would say to

7:57
people, you know, reading the room is

7:59
great, but it almost sounds like I'm

8:01
reading a map. No, I am feeling the

8:04
energy and I want to I want to accept

8:07
it, receive it, but then take it to

8:09
another direction. So, the challenge

8:12
when you're doing standup comedy is

8:14
you're expected to be funny, but what

8:16
I've noticed is the audience is not

8:19
necessarily expecting you to um be funny

8:23
every moment. What they love is what I

8:26
call authenticity.

Authenticity in Comedy

8:29
So, you're sitting with a moment like if

8:31
I get heckled. Uh I used to as a younger

8:35
comedian, I used to love to be heckled.

8:36
I still actually enjoy it because if you

8:39
think about it, the comedian has the

8:40
microphone and has the control. The

8:43
other person's probably had too much to

8:44
drink and the audience is not really

8:46
rooting for the heckler. So, somebody

8:48
would heckle me, uh, you know, hey,

8:50
you're not funny or whatever. And I

8:51
might just instantly go, um, hey, this

8:54
is my job. I wouldn't go to your job and

8:56
unplug the slurpee machine. Right? So,

8:59
that's called a canned, you know, stalk

9:02
reaction. But if I sat with it now as a

9:05
more, you know, veteran pro and I really

9:08
find out, okay, who's this person with,

9:10
what's happening, maybe maybe there's a

9:14
a mental

9:16
challenge this person has. So, I want I

9:17
want to take that extra beat to really

9:19
listen. And this comes true in our in

9:23
our marriages, uh, parenting,

9:26
relationships with customers, is it's

9:29
tempting to listen just long enough to

9:31
get your point in or your pitch or your

9:35
joke or whatever it is. But I just tell

9:37
people what my grandmother who was Irish

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would say, you know, God gave you two

9:41
ears and one mouth. And so try to listen

9:46
twice as long, twice as hard as getting

9:48
ready to speak. Wow. Well, I I think

9:52
it's uh tips like that or wisdom like

9:55
that that might have led into the

9:57
laughter factor, right? So, just for

10:00
reference for those that are listening,

10:01
you came out with a book called The

10:02
Laughter Factor. Uh

The Laughter Factor

10:06
I joke, and you talk about this in the

10:08
book a little bit, but it's like you

10:09
took Gary Chapman's five love languages,

10:12
not really, but turned them into five

10:13
laugh languages. And I thought that that

10:15
was so brilliant and it just immediately

10:17
like helped somebody understand what the

10:19
book would be about and how to relate to

10:21
people. Uh I'm curious I I do want to

10:24
talk through what they are. But before

10:25
we get into that, why do you feel like

10:27
humor helps lower some of the defenses

10:30
that people are feeling whether it be in

10:32
a one-on-one thing, whether it be in a

10:34
like a corporate setting or a group

10:35
event? H why does humor actually uh

10:39
lower defenses?

Humor and Lowering Defenses

10:41
I am fascinated by that and that's part

10:43
of why I wrote the book. And as I was

10:45
researching, I I knew that laughter

10:48
helps us feel better. I mean, science is

10:52
backing up what was said, I think, in

10:53
the book of Proverbs, right? A merry

10:55
heart does good like medicine. It's it's

11:00
true scientifically. You feel better,

11:02
your stress goes down, all kinds of

11:04
great things. But what really surprised

11:05
me as I was researching the book, Chris,

11:07
is um how it instantly builds a

11:12
connection with other people. And I

11:14
noticed this. We have a brand new

11:15
grandson. Well, he's probably about

11:17
eight months old now, but he's not

11:19
speaking quite yet. Um he's not riding a

11:23
bike, but what's he doing? He's already

11:24
laughing. and his mom, his dad, you

11:28
know, my son, when we see them bonding

11:30
with our little grandson, Bryson, it's

11:33
it's like it's something that goes back

11:36
to us being babies and being uh children

11:39
even. It's like I like to say, uh humor

11:42
is a shortcut to trust. So, it's very

11:45
hard to be mad at someone that you're

11:48
laughing with. And so whether you're

11:50
talking about a personal relationship, a

11:53
customer, a vendor, it's like if you can

11:57
intentionally plan to laugh together,

11:59
and this is why we're losing out so much

12:02
by not meeting in person. Like if you

12:04
and I were in person right now, I know

12:07
there'd probably be it's likely more

12:09
laughter just because we're we're kind

12:11
of feeling each other's energy right now

12:13
through Zoom, through web, whatever. we

12:16
can still connect like I can see you

12:18
smiling and I can feel your energy but I

12:20
encourage people to get physically

12:23
together. One of the first things I'll

12:25
do like one of the events where you saw

12:27
me MC chances are before the audience

12:30
came in I was there and and had them

12:34
move the chairs and the roundts closer

12:36
to the stage because the closer we get

12:40
uh the better we feel together. But back

12:43
to your question about why laughter is

12:45
so magical. I honestly don't know. I I

12:48
think maybe it goes back to the word

12:50
humor is the same root word as as human

12:54
when we talk about our our frailties,

12:57
our failures, our foibless, whatever. We

13:01
feel this bond. Like if I were to tell

13:02
you about this great business success I

13:04
had, you might go, "Hey, that's cool."

13:06
But if I tell you about the time I

13:08
totally flopped, we'll probably laugh

13:11
together and you'll feel more connected

13:13
to me.

Laughter is Contagious

13:14
Wow. Well, as as I think through the

13:19
book, uh, and I just think through

13:21
laughter in general, laughter is

13:23
contagious and smiles are contagious.

13:25
And you talk a little bit about this.

13:27
Um, I've even noticed when one of my

13:29
sons starts belly laughing, my wife and

13:32
I look at each other and start laughing.

13:33
We don't even know what he's laughing

13:34
about, but it's just like funny, you

13:36
know, and like seeing the joy on his

13:38
face. You talk through the five laughter

13:41
languages. Um, could you explain to our

13:44
audience how you came up with them and

13:47
maybe give a couple examples of them as

13:49
well?

Five Laughter Languages

13:50
First, when you mentioned your son, I

13:52
have to just tell you, I so agree

13:54
laughter is contagious and um it makes

13:56
it helps us like each other just

13:58
instantly. Uh, I've never shared this on

14:00
a podcast before, but I remember being

14:02
in high school and there was this girl

14:04
that I I liked and she laughed at

14:06
everything I said and I just thought,

14:09
well, so she obviously likes me too,

14:11
right? And uh, long story short, I found

14:14
out later like she laughed at everything

14:16
said. So all these guys uh, kept falling

14:19
in like with her and she was very

14:21
popular. And so sometimes we make the

14:23
mistake of thinking as leaders our job

14:26
is to be the funniest person in the

14:27
room. It's really not. Sometimes it's

14:30
appreciating the humor of other people.

14:32
So when I unpack these five uh laugh

14:35
languages or five humor tactics, I think

14:38
it's just import as important to

14:40
discover your own as it is too. If you

14:42
can this is real servant leadership, but

14:44
if I can discover, oh uh Julie's laugh

14:48
language is this and Mike's laugh

14:51
language is this and Jose that what

14:53
makes him laugh is this. Then as a

14:56
leader I can kind of uh tap into what

14:58
brings them joy.

Surprise and Poke

15:00
So in a nutshell the five uh laugh

15:02
languages and I even have them on this

15:04
handy dandy card Chris so that I so that

15:06
I don't forget but the first one is

15:09
surprise

15:10
and maybe this is the heart of all humor

15:12
like you you don't even need a joke. So,

15:16
for example, if you learned a simple

15:18
magic trick, let's say one time I was at

15:21
this uh old famous magic shop in

15:24
Hollywood, California, and a a very

15:26
boring

15:28
uh quiet man named Earl was showing a

15:32
card trick. He didn't tell any jokes,

15:33
but he was doing a card trick where I

15:35
think um the aces disappeared. And I

15:38
heard the people like busting up and I

15:40
thought to myself, he's not a comedian.

15:42
He's not doing jokes. It was because he

15:44
was surprising them.

15:45
And so when you surprise someone by what

15:48
you say, how you dress, breaking a a

15:51
pattern, like if you um asked to take

15:54
everybody's uh lunch order and then

15:57
brought them breakfast, it would well

15:59
they might be upset, but they might

16:00
laugh a lot because you're breaking a

16:02
pattern. So I call this delighting

16:05
people with the power of the unexpected.

16:09
The next uh laugh language is poke. And

16:12
Chris, this is the trickiest one. Uh

16:15
poke is really teasing, gently teasing

16:18
other people and making fun at yourself.

16:21
And obviously the reason this one is

16:22
tricky is if you use humor in a

16:26
sarcastic way, for example, which fits

16:28
poke, you might make them laugh, but

16:31
probably you're making them feel bad

16:33
about themselves. And so I say in the

16:37
book that humor, your humor should be

16:39
sharp enough to pop a balloon, but never

16:42
to break a heart. And so the safe way to

16:45
handle this second humor tactic of poke

16:48
is poke fun at yourself. Oh my gosh,

16:50
it's comedy gold. When you when you talk

16:53
about your business failure, your dating

16:56
mistakes, your parenting messups, it's

17:00
it's funny. And as a leader, I know this

17:03
is a big theme in in your work of being

17:05
a servant is your people are silently

17:09
wanting to know what makes you tick. And

17:13
when you use what I call authenticity

17:16
and show them this um side of yourself,

17:19
you might think, "Oh, they're not going

17:21
to respect me so much if they know I

17:23
went through a bankruptcy or I went

17:25
through a divorce or I got a DUI or or

17:29
whatever it is." And some of those

17:31
things are are not necessarily funny,

17:33
but when you're transparent,

17:35
your um your people go, "Oh, he's human.

17:40
I can follow him or she's real. I can I

17:44
can approach her with some of my

17:45
problems because I know she's been

17:47
through them." So, before I unpack the

17:49
other three, any I don't want to make

17:51
this a monologue. Any thoughts or

Sarcasm and Humor

17:53
No, that's good. I was going to ask you

17:55
even after this, I was thinking jumping

17:56
on here. I've heard a lot of people say

17:58
that their love language is sarcasm, you

18:00
know, and then thinking about humor.

18:03
Sarcasm is a type of humor. And I

18:05
literally was thinking, how how does

18:08
sarcasm fit in? And maybe maybe the poke

18:11
example is where it is. But sometimes

18:12
sarcasm is just responsive. It's not

18:15
poking at someone or at yourself. It's

18:17
just a response, you know. I is did you

18:20
think about that in terms of sarcasm

18:23
specifically related to the other uh

18:25
laughter habits or tactics?

Handling Sarcasm

18:28
Yeah. Yeah. The five humor tactics are

18:31
not complete in the sense that there's

18:32
lots and lots of ways to make people

18:34
laugh. So I work as a clean comedian,

18:37
but I know if I were to use a curse word

18:40
or some obscenity, I could instantly get

18:43
a laugh. Why? because I'm using the

18:45
power of shocking or surprising, but I

18:48
don't want to lead people that way. And

18:50
it's the same with sarcasm. It's

18:51
trickier there because sarcasm can work.

18:54
But sarcasm is almost always uh

18:57
belittling, right? And I think if you

19:00
want to instead of belittling people, if

19:01
you want to be big them, make them feel

19:04
bigger. And so I recommend being

19:06
sarcastic uh or putting yourself down.

19:10
Here's here's a tricky uh tip that I

19:13
hope your listeners find helpful. You

19:15
want uh self diminishing humor, not

19:20
self-defeating humor. So another way of

19:22
saying this is self- aacing. So if I

19:25
tell you Chris, this is embarrassing,

19:28
but I made a movie and I was the actor

19:31
uh I was one of the lead actors, I was

19:33
the director, I was the main writer and

19:36
we raised the money. So, I was in a

19:38
movie and when we got to the editing

19:40
room, we discovered that my acting was

19:42
so bad, I got cut out of my own film and

19:46
I became the narrator. So, when I share

19:49
a story like that, I'm poking fun at

19:52
myself, but it's true.

19:54
Whereas, if I tell you a story where I'm

19:57
the winner and I kept winning and

19:59
winning, you know, it's probably not

20:01
going to be funny and people aren't

20:02
going to relate to it. And this kind of

20:04
leads me to the next of the five laugh

20:07
languages. I call it in jokes. And this

20:11
one might be my favorite. I think my

20:13
go-to laugh language is surprise. But if

20:16
I could only choose one to use in a

20:18
group, it's in jokes. And this is where

20:21
you notice like right now my assistant

20:24
and I for some reason we stumbled upon

20:28
the word mammal. And so instead of

20:31
saying this this person, this human, he

20:33
she whatever, we just been saying

20:35
mammals lately, it's really not that

20:37
funny. But to us, it's funny because

20:39
it's become an inside joke. So, if I'm

20:42
on stage and some guy's wearing a I

20:45
don't know, a very loud golf shirt and I

20:48
know that he's a good sport about it, I

20:50
might mention that two or three times

20:53
over a two-day conference, like, uh,

20:55
we're going to go out and get Jerry some

20:57
new batteries for his shirt or something

20:59
like that. That becomes an in joke. And

21:02
again, you want to be sensitive. My, uh,

21:05
philosophy on this, Chris, is if in

21:07
doubt, leave it out. But most leaders

21:11
can take some ribbing and some teasing.

21:13
And so I highly recommend in jokes. The

21:15
last two are word play and amplify. And

Word Play and Amplify

21:20
word play is uh you've probably noticed

21:23
as a dad yourself, dad jokes are hot.

21:25
You know, it's I can't believe it

21:27
because when I was growing up, a dad

21:29
joke could, you know, get you kicked out

21:31
of class and it was like, oh no, a bad

21:34
pun. But word play, poems, rhymes, u

21:39
silly statements. There's some great

21:40
comedians, uh, like Mitch Hed Hedsburg

21:44
and, uh, Steven Wright were kind of

21:46
famous stand-ups who were great at word

21:48
play.

21:49
Like Steven Wright would say something

21:51
like, um, I put spot remover on my dog,

21:56
now he's gone.

21:58
So, you've got a setup and a punch, but

22:00
you've just got this funny word picture.

22:03
The last one of the five is what I call

22:05
amplify.

22:07
And this one, some of your listeners are

22:10
great storytellers, exaggerators. Um,

22:14
they heighten the pain. Like somebody

22:17
might go to the grocery store and maybe

22:19
they got delayed for three or four

22:21
minutes in the checkout line, but when

22:22
they come back from the lunch break and

22:24
tell you it sounds like they had this,

22:27
you know, attack on the, you know,

22:30
Amazon River involved all kinds of

22:32
things and it's just because they

22:34
exaggerate. So you can tap into this

22:37
laugh language by um being not just

22:40
telling a story, for example, but like

22:43
living it. M

22:44
you can tap into this by amplifying and

22:47
exaggerating the pain, the details. Um

22:51
numbers are great. So one of the ways I

22:53
recommend this in the book is using the

22:55
word so. So um in instead of just saying

22:59
like let's say you're based in Minnesota

23:01
and people are joking about how cold it

23:03
is, you you could use the word so. It

23:06
was so cold and then other people like

23:09
well how cold was it? you know, and it

23:10
might be like um Starbucks was serving

23:14
uh coffee on a stick or something. So,

23:16
it was so cold. So, if you want to get

23:18
into the amplify language, think of ways

23:21
to exaggerate and magnify the numbers,

23:25
the details, the the personal pain. So,

23:29
those are the five humor tactics. And in

23:31
the book, I give examples. I give jokes.

23:35
Uh but most importantly, I give you some

23:37
home humor homework where where you can

23:40
uh try these things out and see what

23:41
fits your personality.

Building Others Up

23:43
Wow. One of the things that I think

23:46
through as as you're talking is so often

23:50
people do use humor, but it's to tear

23:53
others down or to build themselves up.

23:56
When we think about servant leadership,

23:58
it's about building up those around you.

24:00
And one of the things I love about how

24:02
you talk about humor is it's all about

24:05
building everyone else up, right? It's

24:07
true servant leadership. Uh there's an

24:10
example I once heard you share and I'm

24:12
I'm wondering if you'd be willing to

24:14
share it here too. Uh and it's

24:16
specifically related to your in uh in

24:18
jokes. Um and one time you were asked I

24:22
think to roast some executives at a

24:26
large company. uh and you got up and

24:29
treated that situation in a way that I

24:31
think was really interesting. Uh do you

24:34
recall that and could you share that

24:35
with our audience?

Roasting Executives

24:37
Yeah, if it's the one I'm thinking of. I

24:38
mean, I've been invited to do that kind

24:40
of thing a few times. It's funny. It's

24:43
funny, Chris, to get paid to do things

24:45
you used to get in trouble for doing in

24:46
school, you know.

24:48
But yeah, uh the one in particular that

24:50
you're probably referring to is KPMG,

24:52
which is, you know, one of the top four

24:54
or five accounting firms.

24:56
They were honoring 11 retirees

25:00
and uh they wanted to roast them and

25:03
toast them and so they gave me an hour

25:07
basically 55 minutes. So I had five

25:09
minutes to roast each person and I

25:11
probably spent at least 20 hours

25:14
prepping this. So here here was my

25:15
secret. What is the unique uh thing

25:19
about each of these people that is safe

25:22
to make fun of? So, it might be Julie is

25:26
addicted to coffee. It might be that Tom

25:28
is the worst golfer in the world, but he

25:31
still loves it. And so, I wanted to make

25:33
sure from the company, okay, it's it's

25:35
okay to go after each one of these, you

25:37
know, like um whoever uh Bruce is is a

25:42
dapper dresser. And so, I basically

25:44
created five monologues or comedy

25:47
routines. And each one worked because I

25:51
didn't try to do everything right like I

25:54
didn't talk about this person's cooking

25:55
and their golf game and this. It was

25:57
like what's the one thing? So as a

26:00
leader if you can think about what is it

26:03
that really makes um your

26:08
receptionist laugh, then then you can

26:10
focus in on that. What is it that people

26:14
love to tease me about? you

Reflecting on Roasting Experience

26:17
can focus on

26:19
on that. So, I hope that answers your

26:21
question about that.

26:23
Yeah,

26:24
that was an unusual gig. We called them

26:27
gigs.

Humor and Celebration

26:24
Well, and one of the things that I think

26:25
is so interesting is after that

26:27
experience of being roasted, uh

26:30
sometimes people could feel uh down on

26:33
themselves or laugh because the room is

26:35
laughing but also feel like, oh, that

26:36
was a little humiliating. And I think

26:38
all those people walked away in that

26:41
experience walking walked away feeling

26:43
celebrated. And that's one of the unique

26:45
things that I think humor does too is it

26:47
can celebrate people's differences and

26:50
celebrate who they are and who they were

26:52
made to be, which is just interesting.

Humor in Servant Leadership

26:54
I love that that observation. Yes. You

26:56
know, I'll just I love the focus of your

27:00
podcast, Chris. And um when I think of

27:02
some of my favorite servant leaders, I

27:06
think of Abraham Lincoln who was a

27:08
master at the

27:10
selfdefeating,

27:12
that's not the word I want to use, self-

27:13
aacing humor. Like one time he was in a

27:16
debate and somebody said, "Uh, hey,

27:18
you're you're two-faced." And he said,

27:21
"If I was, I certainly wouldn't be

27:23
wearing this one." Right? So he's he was

27:26
not a handsome man apparently for his

27:28
time. And so he made fun of that. I

27:30
think of Mother Teresa who loved and

27:33
helped so many millions of people and

27:36
inspired others and she said a smile is

27:39
the shortest distance between two people

27:42
that I think of Jesus and here's a big

27:45
shocker for people but there's a book

27:47
called the humor of Christ by Elton True

27:49
Blood and he identifies I can't remember

27:52
the exact number but I think it's like

27:53
30 32 times where Jesus used humor. So

27:58
he basically used all five of these

28:00
humor tactics. He he would exaggerate,

28:02
so he would amplify. He would do in

28:05
jokes like when he talked about um why

28:08
do you try to take a speck of dust out

28:10
of your brother's eye when you have a

28:12
log jutting out of your own eye? Well,

28:15
he was using humor that we're not

28:17
catching today

28:19
uh reading it or hearing it 1920

28:22
centuries later, but at the time he's

28:25
using language that was common to

28:28
farmers and fishermen and woodworkers.

Intentional Humor in Leadership

28:32
And so, um to be intentional about humor

28:35
as a servant leader, I think is to

28:37
actually say my communication matters. I

28:41
want to give it some thought. It's more

28:43
than just before the meeting googling a

28:45
quick joke, but do you want to be

28:47
intentional about the way you make

28:50
people feel? And leaders often think

28:53
that their only job is casting a vision.

28:57
But the way you make people feel about

29:00
their future and about you and the

29:02
relationships with others is so crucial

29:05
for for great leadership. We're in the

29:08
experience economy and today I think

29:11
more than ever we're experiencing a what

29:14
you might call trust

29:17
uh deficit, right? So if humor can help

29:19
you instantly build trust, it's a it's a

29:24
a resource that's worth cultivating.

Creating a Humor Quiz

29:27
That's so good. I love that. One of the

29:29
things and that makes me think of you

29:32
created a quiz to help people try to

29:36
identify

29:37
their laugh language and how they could

29:40
maybe think about implementing humor

29:43
into their everyday life. Can you talk

29:45
about why you came up with the quiz,

29:47
what it is a little bit?

29:49
Yeah. Well, you mentioned the wonderful

29:51
man G Dr. Gary Chapman. uh his book, The

29:55
Five Love Languages, I think it sold, I

29:57
can't remember, 20 million copies. It's

29:59
just been a sensation. And so we gave

30:02
our youngest son, James, who's a college

30:04
student, a copy of the book. And we

30:06
said, "Hey buddy, read it. You know, let

30:07
us know what is what is your love

30:09
language?" And so few weeks later,

30:12
James, tell us, you know, what's your

30:13
love language? And he said, "Venmo."

30:17
So that was fascinating. The reason I

30:19
came up with the quiz was not to model

30:22
Gary Chapman, but in a way to have

30:24
people realize, oh, there's different

30:27
ways of being funny. Like, you've

30:28
probably heard people say, I love to

30:30
laugh, but I'm just not funny. Well,

30:32
it's true that you might not think

30:35
you're funny, but because you're a human

30:37
being, you are a humor being. So, if

30:40
your listeners go to uh this web page

30:43
called the laughterfactor.com,

30:46
in four minutes they can fill out this

30:48
uh quiz and it's kind of fun to do it

30:51
and it uh it delivers to you your laugh

30:55
language and so you might discover I was

30:57
surprised I came up with the quiz and

30:59
yet I was surprised at the result I got

31:01
because I thought I would get the tactic

31:03
of in jokes but what I gravitate more

31:07
most to is surprise. So, I love sending

31:10
people silly gifts in the mail. I love

31:12
um leaving crazy messages on their

31:15
voicemail. If I'm doing comedy, I like

31:18
to make uh a dove appear out of nowhere

31:21
so it looks like magic and then I fold

31:23
it up and put it in my pocket. I'm I'm

31:25
surprising people all the time. So once

31:28
you know what your laugh language is and

31:31
once you learn what your associates

31:34
associates um favorite style of humor

31:37
is, it makes you a more powerful leader

31:39
because you shouldn't feel I mean it's

31:43
always a bit nervous doing humor, right?

31:46
And we can talk about why that is, but

31:48
but it should be you. It's not you

31:51
trying to be someone you're not. You

31:53
don't have to be the funniest person in

31:55
the room, but as a leader, you can be an

31:58
orchestrator of fun.

Flexing Humor Muscles

32:00
Well, it's interesting because let's say

32:02
people take the test and they start

32:03
flexing their humor muscles and they're

32:07
not always going to like their humor

32:09
will not always land, right? They're

32:11
learning to read the rooms. They're

32:12
learning their own humor for themselves.

32:15
Uh,

32:17
have you ever bombed being the expert at

32:19
this? And then at the same time, how do

32:21
people flex that muscle and not get

32:23
discouraged when things don't work?

32:26
Yes. When you asked if I've ever bombed,

32:28
uh, I feel like answering, "You mean

32:31
this week?" I mean, it's it's so easy to

32:33
bomb. I've I've bombed I can't even

32:35
remember. Dozens and dozens of times.

32:37
I've bombed at comedy clubs. I've bombed

32:38
at churches. I've bombed at corporate

32:40
settings. Now, there's different levels

32:42
of bombing. I don't I've never I've

32:44
never been kicked off a stage. That did

32:46
happen to a friend of mine. But there

32:48
was one event I I'll I remember at a

32:51
university where it was an older

32:53
audience and my comedy was not working

32:56
and I thought well I'll become a

32:58
motivational speaker that was not

33:00
working. I thought well I'll do some

33:02
card tricks that was not working. I

33:03
thought well I'll do a little sermon and

33:06
that's not working and so but by the end

33:08
of that all trying all those things like

33:10
my time was up so I was okay. Um but yes

33:13
I have bombed and I think one thing to

33:18
learn and this is true whether you're

33:19
giving a speech or a sales presentation

33:22
whatever is you are not responsible for

33:25
the outcome

33:27
you are responsible for the preparation

33:30
for delivery and there's an old saying

33:32
in comedy there's no such thing as a bad

33:34
audience I don't agree there are bad

33:37
audiences there are drunk audiences

33:39
there are bored audiences there are

33:41
audiences is for whatever reason, you

33:44
know, maybe there's a language barrier

33:45
or all kinds of things. And so I had a

33:49
mentor, Chris, I'll never forget uh the

33:52
words. Uh I forget when he told me this,

33:54
but it was if you live for their praise,

33:58
you will die by their criticism.

34:02
I have to be careful as a comedian

34:03
because there have been times where I'd

34:04
kill. That's what we call it. You know,

34:06
I destroyed, I killed, and I feel it's

34:08
almost like a I've never taken cocaine,

34:11
but I can imagine it's like a high like

34:14
you are so high, like a euphoria when

34:17
you hit a home run. And then I've had

34:19
times when I've bombed like I'll give

34:21
you an example. One time I spoke to the

34:23
Green Bay Packers

34:25
and did a a little chapel for them. And

34:29
if they had won the game they were about

34:31
to play that day, they would have gone

34:34
to the Super Bowl. And they were up 16

34:37
points with about six minutes to go

34:40
against Seattle. And people were texting

34:42
me, you're the man. We love the Packers.

34:45
Whatever you shared with them, awesome.

34:46
You must have made them laugh. You must

34:48
have motivated them. And then they say

34:50
it's the second greatest meltdown in NFL

34:52
history. The Packers lost that game uh

34:56
in six minutes. And people were texting

34:59
me, you're a traitor. What did you say

35:00
to them? But what what I realized is

35:02
like I had no control over the outcome

35:04
of the game. And so when I identified

35:07
myself with the response was where this

35:10
kind of fake pride and then false sense

35:13
of failure came in. Your job as a leader

35:16
is to communicate the message and do it

35:19
in a way that serves others. And whether

35:21
that's humor or whether that's painting

35:24
a picture of where you're going, you are

35:26
not responsible for the reaction. At the

35:31
same time, I love this saying, the

35:34
meaning of communication is the response

35:36
you get. So if you are consistently

35:39
bombing, Chris, we have a problem.

35:41
Right? Um, and one more thing I'll say

35:44
on this uh topic is you are going to

35:48
feel nervous whether you're giving a

35:50
speech. They say people are more afraid

35:52
of speaking in public than just about

35:55
anything. I I've read some stats that

35:57
say people fear speaking in public more

35:59
than they fear death,

36:01
which is pretty wild.

Managing Stage Nerves

36:03
But when you feel that nervousness, I

36:05
encourage my clients and friends to

36:08
reframe it. Uh like let's say some

36:12
tragic thing happened like a friend of

36:14
yours was stuck under a car and there

36:18
were no moments to spare. So you

36:20
suddenly felt this adrenaline rush and

36:22
you could lift the back end of the car

36:23
up and they got away. Well, when you're

36:26
feeling that kind of uh nervousness,

36:28
it's actually a similar adrenaline rush

36:30
to when you're able to lift a car or

36:32
something.

36:33
The point being, you're going to feel uh

36:36
nerves, you're going to feel

36:38
butterflies.

36:39
What you want to do is get them to fly

36:41
in formation. So, I have given more than

36:45
4,000 humorbased presentations in my

36:48
career. And here's the crazy thing. I

36:51
still get nervous every single time. And

36:54
so now I get nervous if I don't get

36:57
nervous because I know that's energy

36:58
that I can channel to say, "This

37:00
matters. This is going to be great. I'm

37:02
getting a kind of a super boost of

37:04
adrenaline before I get on on the

37:07
microphone."

Advice for Newcomers

37:08
Wow. I mean, you've you've done it

37:10
thousands of times and have a rhythm.

37:12
For somebody that for the first time

37:14
they're thinking, "I didn't think I was

37:16
funny. I just thought I laugh at a lot

37:17
of things." What do you tell them to

37:20
try?

37:23
Love that question. Try the same thing

37:27
over and over again. And so, let's say

37:30
you have um next Friday you have an

37:34
important five minute opening for an

37:36
award show. The temptation would be to

37:39
prep for the next week or whatever and

37:42
try to come up with a joke and a great

37:44
slide and then knock them dead. A better

37:48
move would be to take that five minutes

37:50
and try it out with your staff, with

37:53
your family, at the church potluck, at a

37:56
Rotary club, so that when it when it

37:59
really counts in the spotlight for that

38:01
big moment, you've already done it five

38:03
or six times

38:05
and you're not making it up or you're

38:07
not feeling like this isn't working.

38:09
Being in your head, an audience can tell

38:13
instantly if you're in your head or in

38:15
your in your heart. And so another

38:17
mistake I see people making that's

38:19
similar to what we're talking about is

38:21
they they get it all on a on a card or a

38:25
couple pieces of paper or a notebook and

38:28
you've just instantly killed the rapport

38:30
with the audience. You want your head

38:32
up. You want your eyes focused on your

38:35
audience and you want to feel what

38:38
you're saying. So great speaking and

38:41
great jokeelling really is a transfer of

38:44
conviction. It's not the content. The

38:46
content's important.

38:48
I've never had someone come up after a

38:50
speech and say, you know, on page three

38:52
of your script, paragraph four, you

38:55
messed up. I' I've never had that. I

38:57
have had people say, I loved your um

39:01
content, but what they were really

39:02
getting at was it spoke to them. M.

Speaking Tips

39:05
So, what I encourage people to do, I

39:06
know I'm getting a little bit more into

39:08
speaking tips, is don't bring up more

39:10
than like a 3x5 or a 4x6 card and just

39:14
have talking points.

39:16
Don't try to memorize an entire speech,

39:19
but what are your top three to six

39:22
talking points might be an acronym. So,

39:26
so let's say I was interviewing you,

39:27
Chris, on stage with hundreds of people.

39:31
I might take your name Chris and make it

39:33
an acronym so that I don't need to have

39:36
notes on the stage. I want to be focused

39:39
on you. So C might be I want to hear

39:42
about your childhood. H might be how did

39:44
you harness your abilities as a young

39:47
man. I tell me about some of the people

39:49
who inspired you. And then the S would

39:52
be do you have some strategies that

39:55
you'd recommend for other people? So now

39:58
I know where I'm going, but I'm not

40:00
locked into notes and these are talking

40:03
points rather than a a kind of a wooden

40:06
script.

Building Trust with Humor

40:07
Well, that's so interesting. And and

40:09
that's awesome from a speaking

40:11
standpoint. It makes me wonder, too, if

40:13
if you're a leader sitting one-on-one

40:16
with somebody, and you talk about this,

40:18
how how laughter and humor helps build

40:20
trust, how should somebody then in a

40:23
one-on-one setting do that?

40:26
It goes back to some of the things we

40:28
were saying. I think um power is always

40:31
in the hands of the person asking

40:33
questions. So not that power can sound

40:36
like a you know almost a wrong thing to

40:39
have but let's say influence might be a

40:41
better word.

40:42
So rather than going in knowing um I

40:47
want to say this and then I want them to

40:49
say that is asking questions. And so on

40:52
a one-on-one situation, I might ask a

40:54
question that makes them laugh. So I

40:57
might say, "Hey, tell me about um the

41:00
first or worst job you ever had." And I

41:03
guarantee you by asking some questions

41:06
like that, you know, um what was the

41:08
first car you ever drove? And and and

41:11
some some questions that aren't going to

41:13
lead to a comedy routine, but they're

41:15
going to lead to like some warm

41:16
feelings. M

41:17
I think another thing to to do in a in a

41:20
one-on-one setting is and you have to

41:23
not be fake about this, but like as

41:26
we're talking, I'm enjoying you and I

41:29
feel you're enjoying me. And so

41:32
sometimes that's hard because maybe this

41:34
person's bringing me news I don't want

41:36
to hear. But I'm always thinking, what

41:39
can I enjoy about this other person?

41:42
Because let's face it, Chris, we're we

41:46
like to think we're thinkers first, but

41:48
really we're linkers. We're linkers. We

41:51
feel before we think.

41:54
So, we make the mistake of thinking, I

41:56
just got to get them information, but

41:59
we're not logic based mammals, to use

42:02
that fun word again. We are we are

42:05
emotional. We are spiritual. We are

42:08
social. And so I want to bond with

42:12
people before I try to get into too much

42:15
content.

Rapidfire Questions

42:17
Wow, this is so good. I'm excited for

42:19
people to check out the quiz. So, we're

42:20
going to make sure to link to the quiz

42:22
uh where people can go check that out.

42:24
Before we finish, I want to hit you with

42:26
10 rapidfire questions.

42:28
Whoa.

42:29
Where you just say the first thing that

42:31
comes to mind and we'll see if there's

42:32
any wrong answers.

42:36
You're going to tell me if there's some

42:37
wrong ones. Maybe who's the first person

42:41
you think of when I say servant

42:43
leadership

42:47
has to be Jesus.

Describing Adam Christing

42:50
Five words that most describe you.

42:54
Fun,

42:56
reader,

42:59
dad,

43:02
writer,

43:04
explorer.

Favorite Book and Author

43:06
Those are good. Favorite book or author?

43:12
This is going to sound crazy, Chris. The

43:15
Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. He won

43:18
the Pulitzer Prize, which was awarded to

43:21
him after his death, but I think that

43:22
book I It's one of the few books I've

43:24
read twice. If you can come to grips

43:27
with the fact that you're mortal,

43:30
you suddenly realize you don't have to

43:32
take everything so seriously.

43:34
Wow. Eternity. Eternity matters more

43:36
than this afternoon, you know.

43:39
Yeah, I've never heard of that. I will

43:40
check that out.

Favorite Food and Hobby

43:41
Yeah.

43:42
All right. Favorite food.

43:44
Oh,

43:46
tuitos.

43:48
I like that.

43:49
If you can ever get to Ala Street in

43:51
downtown Los Angeles, maybe the first

43:54
store area in California, get their

43:57
Titos. Oh my gosh.

43:59
I thought you were going to say Takis

44:00
like the the chip bag. Uh,

44:03
those are good, too.

44:04
Favorite thing to do in your free time?

44:08
Chess. I am hooked on internet chess. I

44:12
even won a tournament once. So, I play

44:14
three minutes. I get three minutes. You

44:15
get three minutes. So, it's over quick,

44:17
but it just a great brain stimulant.

Surprising Fact

44:20
Wow.

44:20
By the way, am I messing up your game

44:22
right now? Because I'm giving you long

44:23
answers to short questions.

44:25
No, this is good. This is where we find

44:26
out if you get it right or wrong. Uh,

44:28
okay. What's a surprising fact about

44:30
you?

44:33
A surprising fact about me is that I

44:35
struggle with depression.

44:37
Uh I think people would be surprised to

44:40
realize that comedians

44:43
uh often need the medicine that they

44:45
give other people.

44:47
And so maybe, you know, maybe you know

44:50
someone who's a great homebuilder, but

44:52
their home is in need of repair or a

44:56
doctor who smokes or a pastor who's

45:00
needs to spend more time with his

45:02
children. And so as a comedian, I have

45:04
to remind myself I I know how to give it

45:06
to other people. I could go into a group

45:09
with um

45:11
with one of these, a handheld

45:13
microphone, and I could start engaging

45:15
and getting them laughing,

45:17
but I need to receive what I give other

45:19
people. So, that's that's the answer to

45:21
that one.

Favorite Travel Destinations

45:22
Wow, that's good. I And I do feel like

45:24
sometimes comedy can mask that, you

45:26
know, and that's where it's like you

45:27
have to know yourself and where you're

45:28
at in that process. Um, where's your

45:31
favorite place you've been?

45:35
I've been to 49 of the 50 states.

45:38
Wow.

45:38
Two weeks ago, I was in Bali, Indonesia,

45:41
which was incredible.

45:43
But I would have to say a fa It may not

45:47
be the favorite, but it would be

45:48
Durango, Colorado.

45:50
Okay.

45:51
As a Have you been there?

45:52
No, never heard of it.

45:55
It It has a river that runs through the

45:57
town. It feels like you're back in the

45:59
Wild West and yet I I don't even know.

46:02
There's probably 80,000 people there or

46:05
something. Uh there's a train, a narrow

46:07
gauge mine train that runs through the

46:09
town. And so it's where I got into magic

46:12
tricks cuz I had an uncle. When I was a

46:13
kid, I would visit Durango and see my

46:15
grandparents. My uncle would pull coins

46:18
out of my ears and do magical things. So

46:21
it's been years since I was back. I hope

46:24
that this year I make it back to

46:26
Durango, Colorado.

Places to Visit

46:28
Wow, that's so special. Is there

46:29
anywhere in the world that you want to

46:31
go that you haven't been?

46:33
I'm embarrassed to tell you. I've been

46:35
to Ireland, many parts of Europe. I've

46:37
never been to London

46:39
um or Scotland. So, that's that's on the

46:44
sweet spot of places I'd like to go.

46:46
I have to interject in the 10 questions.

46:48
What's the 50th state? I'm on my seat

46:50
wondering what state haven't you been

46:51
to?

46:52
It's crazy because I've done Maine. When

46:55
I say done it, as an entertainer, I've

46:57
spoken or entertained or MCed. Alaska is

47:01
the one is I've done, but I think I'm

47:03
contradicting myself. Maine is the one I

47:05
haven't been to.

Best Advice Received

47:06
Oh, okay. Got it. Yeah, that's that's

47:09
pretty out there. All right.

47:10
So, if you can get me booked into like a

47:11
a lobster business festival or

47:13
something,

47:15
you'd be set. What's the best advice

47:17
you've ever received?

47:21
So, I was at Biola University. I was a

47:25
senior. I was nervous about do I want to

47:28
go full-time into speaking and comedy

47:32
and I had a fantastic uh mentor, Dr.

47:34
Todd Lewis, and I wanted to know what he

47:38
thought. And I said, "Dr. Lewis, do you

47:40
think I could make it as a as a

47:43
comedian, as a full-time speaker?" And

47:46
he said, "Well, I think you could, but

47:50
what's more important is whether you

47:52
think you could.

47:54
And that was a gamecher for me, Chris,

47:56
because it reminds me of um one of my

48:00
heroes, Dale Carnegie, who wrote a book

48:03
that's even a bigger bestseller than Dr.

48:05
Gary Chapman's. He wrote um How to Win

48:08
Friends and Influence People. And he was

48:10
asked, "How do you sell so much?" And

48:14
Dale Carnegie said, "Because I'm sold."

48:18
So I think as leaders we need to we

48:21
think that we need to sell and inspire

48:24
and that's important other people but

48:28
the most important dialogue you'll ever

48:29
have is is with yourself as a leader

48:33
what do you believe uh what are your

48:36
convictions and so when Dr. Todd Lewis

48:38
asked me that, I started thinking, well,

48:40
yeah, I believe that I could make it as

48:43
a full-time entertainer and speaker. And

48:47
pretty much since that time, that's what

48:48
I've been doing.

Importance of Servant Leadership

48:49
Wow, that's great advice. All right.

48:51
Finally, on this podcast, we talk a ton

48:54
about servant leadership. Why do you

48:56
feel like it's important for people to

48:58
learn about servant leadership, maybe

49:00
even through the lens of humor?

49:03
Oh, I love that. I think servant

49:06
leadership is another way of saying

49:07
love.

49:09
And we can complicate it and have

49:12
techniques and things, but if you love

49:15
someone, you show that love is more than

49:19
a feeling. It's an action, right? So, if

49:21
I if I love my fellow comedians that my

49:25
company books, if I love my right-hand

49:27
person who's uh on the admin side, if I

49:31
love my clients,

49:33
it's more than just saying that. It's

49:36
it's demonstrating that. And I I love

49:40
that verse in scripture where it says

49:42
God demonstrated his love. So it doesn't

49:46
doesn't just say that he loves us, but

49:49
he demonstrated that love. So as a

49:52
leader, you want to think how am I

49:54
demonstrating

49:56
my service to others? And um

50:02
it is a commitment. And what's amazing

50:04
though is it does affect people's

50:06
feelings. Like I believe that people

50:08
will follow you through the trenches,

50:11
through all kinds of trials and

50:13
tribulations if they know they're loved

50:15
and cared for. But you you can't fake

50:18
that. It's it's a it's a habit. It's

50:21
kind of like courage is not a feeling.

50:25
It's a habit. And the same is true with

50:27
servant leadership.

Closing Remarks

50:29
Wow. That's so good. Well, Adam, thank

50:32
you for being willing to share your

50:34
wisdom on the podcast with our audience

50:36
and just for opening up through the book

50:38
and helping us all find a little bit of

50:40
humor in our lives.

50:43
Well, thank you. I uh I feel like I got

50:45
more out of it than you did, Chris,

50:46
because you're you're very good as a

50:49
podcaster and you're you're one of the

50:51
most caring people I've I've known in

50:53
the business world. So, kudos to you.

50:56
Well, thank you. Very kind. Might have

50:58
to cut that part out, but thank you.

51:01
We'll talk soon.

51:02
Thank you for listening to this episode

51:04
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

51:07
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

51:09
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51:11
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51:20
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51:22
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