CEO Challenges

0:00
If I'm the CEO of a big American bank,

0:03
do I really want to take the risk and

0:05
the cost, which I know will be

0:07
humongous,

0:08
to adapt to change, or should I just let

0:11
things rock and roll and retire with my

0:13
pension and let the next guy have the

0:15
problem.

Introducing Chris Skinner

0:22
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

0:24
we welcome Chris Skinner, one of the

0:26
most influential voices in financial

0:28
technology and the author of more than

0:30
20 books on the future of money.

0:33
Through his daily blog, The Financer,

0:35
and as chair of the Financial Services

0:37
Club, Chris has spent decades tracking

0:39
how technology is reshaping banking.

0:42
He helped launch one of the first mobile

0:44
banks in the world and has advised

0:46
leaders everywhere from the United

0:48
Nations and the World Bank to the White

0:49
[music] House and the World Economic

0:51
Forum.

Banking Industry Challenges

0:52
Chris challenges how banks have always

0:54
done things and pushes the industry

0:56
toward focusing on serving people

0:58
better. Join us as Chris talks about the

1:01
future of [music] money, how banking is

1:02
being rebuilt for a digital world, what

1:04
new technology means for the way we

1:06
save, spend, [music] and move value, and

1:08
where the industry as a whole is heading

1:10
in the future.

Welcome Chris Skinner

1:12
Chris, welcome to the servant leadership

1:15
podcast.

1:17
And hello, Chris. Two Chris's.

1:20
[laughter]

Early Fintech Involvement

1:21
I love this. This is going to be

1:22
awesome. Uh, okay. For people who don't

1:24
know your background, when I bumped into

1:26
you, uh, I realized that you were one of

1:29
the first people ever to talk about

1:31
fintech. Uh, I I don't even know if it

1:33
was a thing when you started talking

1:35
about it or even a word. How did you get

1:37
into the fintech space early on?

Career in Financial Services

1:41
Well, I've always been involved in

1:43
financial services um, since I started

1:46
my career going back to before you were

1:48
born probably. and um

1:52
basically delivering technology into the

1:56
financial industry

1:58
uh got me into a lot of discussions

2:00
around a frustration I've had for

2:04
decades, which is that financial

2:06
[snorts] institutions do not change

2:08
their core systems in Europe or America.

Need for System Updates

2:12
And so that's the argument I've been

2:14
having most of my life to say you need

2:17
to refresh your core systems to keep up

2:20
because change is the only constant and

2:22
you have to adapt to survive. And um now

2:27
we we see this in uh particularly Asia

2:30
and um the African nations and the South

2:34
Americas uh and Europe and American

2:37
financial firms are still struggling

2:39
with transformational systems. And so

2:42
that's what I spent my life com

2:44
campaigning about I guess. And the

2:47
reason I got down this rabbit hole is

2:50
because um I I've met too many senior

2:54
people particularly in the last century

2:58
uh and that's where they should remain

3:00
who um just would not understand

3:03
technology even though they were leading

3:05
a company. Um and I think every CEO

3:09
should understand technology.

Technology in Banking

3:12
Yeah. talk about for our listeners who

3:15
when they think of technology and

3:17
banking uh off the bat it's probably

3:19
very different especially if they're

3:21
listening in America than the stuff you

3:23
have experienced when you talk about

3:25
India or Africa can you kind of share

3:27
the differences of maybe what technology

3:30
in America people think about and then

3:32
the reality of where tech and banking is

3:35
already

Global Banking Technology

3:37
well America um

3:42
I I'll try to be nice cuz you know

3:45
[laughter] by your by your accent I'm

3:47
guessing you're you're an American.

3:50
It's slow. It's very slow and it's very

3:54
difficult. So I live in Poland and

3:58
Poland is one of the most progressive

4:00
economies in Europe. It was the 27th

4:03
largest economy in Europe in 1990. It's

4:06
now the fourth or fifth depending on how

4:09
you look at it. And a lot of that's to

4:10
do with financial reformation of the

4:14
investment markets through the Warsaw

4:16
Stock Exchange through to contactless

4:19
payments and Blick which is a payment

4:21
system we use here that's seamless and

4:24
easy. And I've seen this reflected in

4:28
quite a few other economies. China is

4:30
one of the the biggest ones. And I

4:33
remember meeting the head of systems

4:36
architecture at Ant Technology Group. Uh

4:41
and he actually had worked in Seattle

4:43
with Microsoft for years and then came

4:46
back to China. He's Chinese uh native by

4:49
birth and um was working on their next

4:52
generation systems and said to me it's

4:56
their fifth systems generation and this

4:59
was in 15 years. So it's like in every

5:03
three or four years they were

5:04
reinventing their complete architecture

5:07
of their systems and I it's a long story

5:10
I could take you through but each time

5:13
there was a very good reason because of

5:15
expansion and growth. Um but right now

5:19
they're on a systems architecture built

5:21
for two billion people processing

5:24
500,000 transactions per second which

5:28
puts it in perspective.

Legacy Systems in Banking

5:30
And um

5:32
it made me think about the fact that I

5:34
don't really know many American or

5:36
European banks that have reinvented

5:38
their systems since the 1960s.

5:43
And it was kind of like what is it with

5:45
us that we don't do this? And the reason

5:48
we don't do it is that our systems are

5:50
cement. You know, they've been built in

5:53
the last century and we've cemented them

5:55
in with layers and layers of additional

5:59
things over the decades and now nobody

6:02
wants to take the risk or the cost of

6:06
ripping out those systems and replacing

6:08
them. 43% of the core systems of

6:11
America's biggest banks are written in

6:14
cobalt according to Reuters. the number

6:17
may have gone down because that's the

6:18
figure from a few years ago, but it kind

6:21
of puts the context which is if I'm the

6:23
CEO of a big American bank, do I really

6:27
want to take the risk and the cost,

6:29
which I know will be humongous,

6:32
to adapt to change, or should I just let

6:34
things rock and roll and retire with my

6:36
pension and let the next guy have the

6:38
problem?

Antiquated Financial Systems

6:40
I mean that is uh such a crazy thought

6:44
uh just of how antiquated some of the

6:46
most important tech in our society is

6:49
for many hundreds of millions of people

6:52
um and billions around the world

6:54
depending on where people are. uh what

6:56
are the dangers of not moving into the

6:59
future from your standpoint and what

7:01
have the conversations been like because

7:02
I know you talked to a lot of these uh

7:04
big bank CEOs, the executives and and

7:07
this has been a case that you put before

7:08
them for a while now.

Third Fintech Revolution

7:12
Yeah. And my latest business book is

7:15
called intelligent bank with a subtitle

7:17
the third fintech revolution. And what

7:21
I'm discussing is that we started with

7:25
automating mundane processes with

7:27
mainframes.

7:29
So that was back in the 60s and 70s and

7:32
80s. And you think of Visa and

7:34
Mastercard and Swift and that's what

7:36
that was all about. Um it's very high

7:40
cost um and very long projects. Uh but

7:45
when they were done, they were done and

7:46
the back office became massively

7:49
efficient.

7:50
Then cloud computing and the smartphone

7:53
network came around in the 2000s and we

7:57
moved from the back office to the front

7:59
office. How can we use digital

8:02
transformation to make the customer

8:03
journey better? How can we engage

8:06
customers better and give them more

8:08
selfservant power to do their own thing

8:11
using apps? And so the back office was

8:15
now working well. The front office was

8:17
now transformed. And the third

8:20
revolution is to become AI native. And

8:23
AI native effectively means I use all of

8:28
the customer data to be intimate with

8:30
them on a one-to-one level that's

8:32
personalized for them and with them and

8:35
supports their lives. And I often say

8:39
today that if you're still working on

8:41
digital transformation that that was

8:43
last decade. you should have done it 10

8:46
years ago. Right now it's being AI

8:49
native because that's the third

8:51
revolution. And some people say, "Oh, so

8:53
you mean open banking and APIs?" And I

8:56
go, "No, that's digital transformation."

8:58
What I'm talking about is data

9:00
integration, consolidation,

9:02
rationalization, and leverage. And if

9:04
you're not in a position to be able to

9:06
do that because your core systems are

9:08
written in cobalt from the 1970s,

9:10
then you're dead.

AI Integrated Banking

9:13
What would it look like to be in this uh

9:16
in this new AI integrated world for the

9:20
consumer? What what should a consumer

9:22
listening to this be thinking about?

9:23
Like this would be the ideal banking

9:25
experience?

9:27
Well, that's kind of difficult question

9:29
in some ways, Chris, because there's

9:32
lots of different things in play here.

9:33
AI is not one thing. It's many, many

9:36
things. In financial services, it's

9:39
fraud compliance, regulatory reporting,

9:42
risk, it's customer experience, it's

9:46
crossber and foreign exchange and

9:49
payments and investing and saving and

9:52
mortgages and credit. So, lots of

9:54
dimensions in there. But I think what

9:56
I'd say is that if I am working and ha

10:01
have my main relationship with an

10:05
institution

10:07
uh of which as you know there's a few

10:09
big ones in the US um and rest of the

10:12
world. Uh what I would expect is for

10:15
them to be predictive and personalized.

10:18
They really need to understand Chris

10:20
Skinner and Chris Lesnar,

10:22
you know, so that I feel that I have a

10:26
proper relationship digitally with them.

10:29
Um, not one where I'm treated as a

10:31
number. Not one where I have to hang on

10:33
the phone for 20 to 25 to 30 minutes to

10:36
get hold of a human call center

10:38
operator. Not one where they deal with

10:41
me and the first question is what's your

10:44
account number and PIN? you know, it

10:46
should be much easier and at the moment

10:50
I'm finding it much harder. In fact,

10:52
digitally I think we've made the world a

10:54
lot worse,

10:55
particularly in the financial markets.

10:57
And my example would be um that my

11:01
children uh big fans cuz I got two

11:04
little 10-year-old boys uh of Roblox and

11:07
Minecraft. And quite often they'll ask

11:09
me to sign in and top up their account

11:12
um becau or you know subscribe because

11:16
they want to do things and I'm going

11:19
what I find is that first of all I've

11:22
got to log into their account which I

11:24
have to know those login details. Then I

11:27
have to log in to PayPal or my bank.

11:30
Then I have to authorize through a text

11:32
message or another message from American

11:35
Express or someone else. And by the time

11:37
I've gone through the process, it takes

11:38
me an hour just to do a simple $19

11:42
transaction. Um, or 199.99

11:46
to be exact. [laughter]

11:48
And I just go, why am I going through

11:50
this process? It's it's hell. You know,

11:53
it's the AI native process should be one

11:56
where when they come to me and say, can

11:58
you do this? I just go, okay, and it's

12:01
done.

Future of Banking

12:03
I I love where that is going. I I hope

12:07
that we get there. As you think through

12:09
this, there's a lot of businesses even

12:11
outside of finance where the leadership

12:13
are thinking of the world maybe like

12:17
what it should have been a decade or two

12:19
decades ago and they're talking about

12:20
that as the future. One of the things

12:21
that I've liked about following you for

12:23
the longest time is that people or the

12:26
way you talk about the future is uh it

12:30
sounds so far off but really you talk

12:32
about like it's already here and you

12:33
have great examples where it's already

12:35
here. Um as you think through people

12:38
listening to this that aren't in the

12:40
finance world, how does somebody even

12:42
realize

12:44
how far behind they are and even the

12:46
steps to move forward? because sometimes

12:48
it just feels like defeating and even

12:51
your example of like okay maybe

12:53
somebody's running a big financial

12:54
corporation they're just going to retire

12:56
and let the next person deal with it uh

12:59
which doesn't make for a better world

13:00
necessarily at all.

Successful Visionaries

13:04
No, but then um you know you you look at

13:08
the arc of who isn't successful today

13:12
and when you look at the big companies

13:15
we would name obviously we'll be talking

13:17
about uh SpaceX and Elon Musk we'll be

13:22
talking about Amazon and Jeff Bezos um I

13:25
think we still probably talk about

13:26
Microsoft and Bill Gates um and the

13:30
thing that's common to all of them is

13:32
that they had a dream and made it

13:36
happen. And most of us don't have the

13:39
dream. You know, we don't have the the

13:42
vision. Uh in my case, I have it, but I

13:46
haven't made it happen because I'm

13:48
really good at dreaming. I'm not good at

13:50
doing. [laughter]

13:51
So,

13:55
so the the people we admire the most in

13:58
the world are the people who had the

14:00
dream and made it happen. Uh they're

14:02
good at dreaming and doing

14:04
and um you may dislike them or you may

14:07
love them. Uh most of them are Marmite

14:10
if I'm honest. Um do you know Marmite?

14:14
Yeah. The spread.

14:16
Yeah. You either love it or hate it.

14:18
Yeah.

14:18
Yeah.

14:19
Um and and that's true of most of the

14:22
tech people that we see in the world

14:25
today. But then

14:28
what's happened in the last 50 years is

14:31
these tech people have taken over our

14:34
world and they're more powerful than our

14:37
political leaders and nations. And this

14:40
is something that I often talk about

14:41
when I'm presenting which is that you

14:44
know when you look at Earth from space

14:47
and bear in mind that most of these tech

14:49
leaders are building spaceships. When

14:53
you look at Earth from space, where are

14:55
the borders?

14:59
It's a good question.

15:01
There are none. And that's how

15:03
technology looks at the world, you know,

15:05
and these tech leaders look at the

15:07
world. There are no borders. Um,

15:09
obviously there's a Chinese firewall and

15:11
stuff like that. Um, which are false

15:14
borders, but we can get around borders

15:17
quite easily. I went to China recently

15:19
and, uh, I got around their borders.

15:22
[snorts]

15:23
[laughter]

Bitcoin and Money Evolution

15:24
I mean, it it's interesting. I know you

15:26
were part of starting one of the first

15:27
mobile banks. Then you've been

15:30
following, I'm sure, uh, all everything

15:32
with Bitcoin over the last, I don't

15:34
know, more two decades. Uh, you probably

15:38
were one of the first people to hear

15:39
about Bitcoin and bump into it. How do

15:41
you think money is changing? And from

15:44
what you're seeing globally, is it

15:46
changing for the better overall or worse

15:49
or I I would just love your perspective.

Fragmentation of Money

15:54
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of questions

15:57
around where we're going with money

15:59
because money is fragmenting. We've

16:01
moved into a world where there are many

16:04
digital currencies. In cryptocurrencies,

16:07
there's over 2,000, although an awful

16:09
lot of them are not actively used. Um

16:13
and you know Bitcoin and Ethereum is um

16:17
more of a architecture. There's lots of

16:19
things layered upon them now that are

16:22
operating um to move money between

16:26
people and borders. And again digital

16:29
currencies don't recognize borders. Um

16:33
where we're going with money. I've just

16:35
written a book about it actually which I

16:38
had this idea um during the winter

16:41
holidays which was to start writing

16:44
fiction about fact and so I use my

16:48
financial knowledge to create some fun

16:52
and um I call it pulp function um so

16:56
it's not pulp fiction it's function fun

16:59
fact finance and f fiction all wrapped

17:02
up in one so the first book's just come

17:05
out and it's called Diary of a Ponzi

17:07
scheme where I decide cuz I'm broke that

17:10
I'm going to scam and uh rip off all of

17:13
my wealthy friends. I've got a good

17:15
network and um I sell them the idea of a

17:19
token fund which is all about

17:20
tokenization, digital currencies

17:23
and um stable coins and all the things

17:26
we hear about these days that are cool

17:28
and hot. And um

17:32
the idea of these books is to explain in

17:35
a fun way how these things work. So the

17:38
book explains

17:40
digital currencies, but it doesn't do it

17:42
as a lecture. It does it as a story. Um

17:46
and in fact, I'm just working on a few

17:47
others. My my latest one is called the

17:50
Bank of Kev. And um the reason is I'm

17:54
involved in opening a bank branch in

17:57
Britain um because people no longer have

18:00
access to branches. And um the bank of

18:03
Kev is a story where Mega Bank, you can

18:08
name it whoever you want, decide to

18:10
close down the branch that Kev is

18:13
managing and Kev says, "Can I buy it?"

18:16
And the story takes you through how the

18:18
branch moves from being mega bank's

18:21
transactional processor to being a

18:24
financial center for the city and it's

18:28
the last branch in town which is a

18:30
reason why people want it. It's very

18:32
emot emotional story.

Engaging Finance Education

18:35
That's awesome. I one of the things that

18:37
is cool is you has spent your career not

18:39
only thinking about the future but also

18:42
trying to make it tangible for people

18:43
because didn't at one point you even

18:45
write a kids book like you you've

18:47
written some stuff in some really unique

18:49
ways to help people engage in finance

18:53
better.

Books for Financial Literacy

18:55
Yeah. I mean if you go to

18:58
I'm sorry.

18:59
Was there a kids book at some point too?

19:02
Uh there's several kids books. If you go

19:05
to my website, you can download Fintech

19:07
for Kids for for free. Um but also I

19:12
wrote a series called Captain Cake and

19:13
the Candy Crew, which is for like um

19:17
four to 9year-old. Um and it's all about

19:21
to Sweetly Go where No Sweet has gone

19:23
before. You can probably imagine where I

19:25
stole that from. [laughter]

19:28
Um but the those books are more around

19:31
diversity and friendship and teamwork.

19:34
Um which is good for kids to understand.

19:38
Uh fintech for kids tries to explain in

19:40
a very simple way uh blockchain,

19:43
distributed ledger technology,

19:44
artificial intelligence and it's really

19:47
good for chief exe executives and people

19:50
leaving the banks.

Finance with Conviction

19:53
Yeah. Yeah. One of one of the things

19:55
that I think is really cool uh that you

19:57
talk about is it's not just banking for

20:00
the sake of money. Uh how you talk about

20:03
finance is the importance of standing

20:06
for something that you believe in. Talk

20:08
about how you ended up with such deep

20:10
convictions personally and and why we

20:14
don't see that more frequently from a

20:16
lot of leaders in the finance world

20:18
where it's it's deep personal

20:19
convictions versus just a lot of them

20:21
just care about making more money.

Personal Beliefs in Finance

20:25
Well, I'm driven by my own direction.

20:28
So, a lot of what I'm writing at the

20:31
moment is around belief and trust which

20:36
um are really important factors

20:39
um and particularly trust, security and

20:43
risk and what it means in our digital

20:46
world because so many people are getting

20:48
scammed. it's becoming ridiculous and we

20:51
don't have the right checks and balances

20:53
in place to ensure that those things are

20:56
controlled. [snorts] And I guess when

20:59
you look at the typical person in a

21:01
corporation and I I'm not the best

21:04
employee if I'm honest um because I have

21:09
my convictions. Um I I think we

21:13
everything should be done in the

21:15
interest of the customer and society and

21:18
the neighborhood. Um, and I'm not driven

21:22
by the bonus and the financial

21:25
incentives that most people are being

21:27
driven by in large institutions. And if

21:31
you're driven purely for profit, then

21:34
you'll do an awful lot at the expense of

21:37
individuals and society. And I think

21:39
that's not correct. So,

21:41
I'm not a rebel. Um,

21:44
or am I? I maybe I am a rebel with a

21:47
cause. And my cause is that everyone

21:50
counts. I I've traveled to over a 100

21:53
countries around the world and what gets

21:55
me is that there are so many countries

21:58
I've been to where you think they're

22:00
rogue nations or they're bad people and

22:03
you go there and they're just the same

22:04
as you and me Chris uh in on the ground.

22:08
They just want a happy life and to look

22:10
after their friends and family. It's the

22:12
leaders of those countries who are um

22:15
you know mad or irrational. It's not the

22:18
the people. All people pretty much are

22:21
equal and the same, just that some are

22:23
more equal than others.

Advice for Consumers

22:27
Well, okay. I know a lot of what you do

22:29
is talk to leaders in the financial

22:31
world. Um, when you're talking to lay

22:35
consumers, a lot of people who are

22:37
leading in their domain dayto-day on

22:40
this podcast, what's something you tell

22:42
them to think about or some step that

22:44
they could take to better understand

22:47
money, technology, banking, and where

22:50
it's moving so that they don't fall

22:52
behind and feel money is one of those

22:54
things where people feel a lot of

22:55
intimidation and fear around it. I from

22:57
what I feel at least. uh how do you help

23:00
them think about the future and AI and

23:03
banking? It sounds good and it sounds

23:04
scary all at the same time.

Understanding Finance

23:08
Well, obviously the first thing I'd say

23:10
is my books, particularly Pulp Finction,

23:12
because that's designed exactly to

23:15
address the question you've asked uh to

23:17
make it easy to understand finance

23:18
without having to get into the

23:20
technicalities.

23:22
Um,

23:23
I think another thing I would do is

23:27
if you have a branch, go there and talk

23:30
to the bank and ask them the tough

23:32
questions. Say, you know, I'm looking at

23:35
investing in cryptocurrencies.

23:38
What advice can you give me? I'm

23:40
thinking about

23:42
um my pension or uh my savings and

23:45
investments. What advice can you give

23:47
me? and test them because one of the big

23:50
things about branches is they are no

23:53
longer p places you go to deposit cash

23:58
because who uses cash? What they should

24:00
be is a place you can go and get service

24:05
and uh by service I don't mean advice. I

24:08
mean

24:09
people who who have knowledge um and the

24:13
knowledge that you don't have probably

24:14
because that's their job. Um I find it

24:19
really interesting because Revolute is

24:20
now one of the biggest fintech startups

24:23
in the world valued 115 billion after 10

24:27
years. Uh and they're trying to be a

24:29
financial super app and they're coming

24:31
into the US market getting a license.

24:34
And one of the first things that they

24:36
started talking about is they will open

24:38
a service center. And when you think of

24:41
a service center, what is that? That's

24:44
not transactions or advice. It's a place

24:47
you can go to take your worries away.

24:50
And that's what I'm writing about as the

24:52
Bank of Kev. You know that the Bank of

24:55
Kev is not a transactional branch center

24:57
for cash and deposits. It's a place you

25:00
can go and just meet people to take your

25:03
financial worries away.

Banking Experience

25:06
I'm not sure I've ever had a good

25:08
banking experience where I've walked

25:10
away from a bank thinking, "Boy, that

25:11
was a great experience." Um, but I like

25:14
what you're talking about. Uh, are you

25:17
seeing that exists more than it doesn't

25:19
or are you seeing that hopefully over

25:20
time things are changing to get better?

Fragmented Financial Services

25:23
Well, at the moment things are changing

25:24
to get worse.

25:26
Okay.

25:27
Uh, a lot of things are being

25:29
fragmented. Um we have so many ways in

25:33
which we can pay and it's confusing and

25:37
um particularly when with open banking

25:40
you have maybe three different companies

25:42
involved in the transaction

25:45
um from Brainree and PayPal through to

25:48
American Express through to the merchant

25:51
and the vendor

25:53
um and it the same if I'm honest is

25:57
happening with my money. I don't know

25:59
about h what's happening with yours, but

26:01
I now have so many providers of service

26:05
um digitally um through apps uh that

26:09
I've opened and that I use some all the

26:12
time, some hardly ever um that I forget

26:15
which ones I'm using and and why.

26:17
Obviously, I have my main account and uh

26:20
I'm using that almost every day. Um but

26:24
I think like most of us, it's getting

26:27
quite confusing. And then you also have

26:28
to think about and this is one of the

26:31
things that a lot of people in my area

26:34
forget that there's hundreds or and

26:38
millions of people who don't have any

26:40
digital finance

26:43
or don't want digital finance. So how

26:46
are they served? Who who is serving that

26:49
community? Um and you may say oh they're

26:53
the poor people. They're not the poor

26:54
people. They're the people maybe with

26:57
millions of dollars of assets that they

26:59
will hand over to their kids because

27:01
they're in their 70s or 80s and they

27:04
just don't trust using digital services

27:07
on mobile phones. Uh so we're we're in a

27:11
a moment of time that I'm loving because

27:15
I really enjoy technology,

27:18
but I think we'll find it'll be a lot

27:21
better in 10 or 20 years than it is

27:23
today. because today I think it's pretty

27:25
messy.

Complexity in Personal Finance

27:26
Yeah. Yeah. As as you share that

27:29
example, I can think through in my

27:31
little finance bubble on my phone, I

27:33
have about 20 apps where I've got a

27:36
small amount of money in a bunch of

27:38
them. Uh and I never remember how to get

27:40
into them and none of them talk to each

27:42
other and I wish I could transfer money

27:44
but I can't for various reasons. And

27:46
yeah, it's uh money is a pain. And then

27:48
when you think through the assets on top

27:50
of that, that adds a whole another

27:51
banking complexity to how people manage

27:53
and integrate. And it and it kind of

27:55
goes back to that third revolution that

27:58
you talk about of what if there was a

28:00
central place that just understood your

28:02
whole situation and could give advice

28:04
based on that whole picture

28:06
versus just one account that you have or

28:09
one question you have helping think

28:11
through things that you would have never

28:12
even thought through. Um, sounds pretty

28:15
good actually. Then then the question is

28:18
who owns that central place? It's me,

28:21
you know. So there's a really

28:23
interesting discussion and Tim Berners

28:25
Lee who founded um www worldwide web

Decentralized Data Ownership

28:30
is leading um along with many other

28:32
people but he's one of the um most vocal

28:35
advocates uh that we will in 10 or 20

28:39
years have decentralized

28:42
democratized and delegated ownership of

28:46
our data and our space. And so it will

28:49
be down to us to say who who can access

28:52
and share my space. Um and it's not

28:56
going to be for the the oldies of this

28:59
world, but I think for the Gen Zeds and

29:01
uh millennials, um and the Gen A's, the

29:04
alphas that are coming through, um it's

29:07
going to be really interesting to see

29:08
how technology starts to become owned by

29:11
the individual and not by the

29:12
corporation.

Future of Technology

29:15
Wow. Uh it'll be exciting to see the

29:17
next 10, 20 years and I'm excited for

29:19
people who are listening to this to

29:20
start following you if they aren't

29:21
already. Uh and just get insights

29:23
because I think they'll at least feel

29:25
like they're ahead of the curve hearing

29:27
some of the cool examples um that you

29:29
share in your in your daily posts. So,

Rapidfire Questions

29:33
uh I want to finish with some rapidfire

29:35
questions where you just say the first

29:37
thing that comes to mind and there's no

29:38
wrong answer. Uh, who's the first person

29:41
you think of when I say servant

29:44
leadership?

Servant Leadership Example

29:49
Um,

29:52
it's a good question. I'd probably say

29:54
um, Satia Nadella.

Describing Yourself

29:58
All right. Five words that most describe

29:59
you. curious,

30:03
provocative,

30:05
intelligent,

30:06
needy,

30:08
and huggable.

Book Recommendation

30:11
Love that. What's an author or book that

30:14
you recommend to people that's not your

30:16
own who are listening to this podcast?

30:20
I would probably go with um Charles

30:23
Dickens just because uh the place that I

30:28
lived in for many years and I still have

30:30
a house there in England is um where

30:33
Charles Dickens served in uh the

30:37
dockyard. Um and one of his books uh

30:41
which was A Tale of Two Cities is one of

30:45
my favorites. So I go with that one.

Free Time Activities

30:47
Favorite thing to do in your free time?

30:50
It used to be jogging and doing

30:51
marathons. These days, because my knees

30:53
are bad, it's walking the dog.

Surprising Fact

30:55
Love that. Uh, what's a surprising fact

30:57
about you?

30:59
Um, wow. Um, a surprising fact about me

31:04
is probably that

31:06
uh I've traveled the whole world and yet

31:11
um I haven't stopped. I'm always wanting

31:15
to travel more.

Favorite Travel Destination

31:18
Favorite place you've been?

31:21
Bali, Indonesia.

Future Travel Plans

31:23
Anywhere you want to go that you have

31:25
not been?

31:27
Uh, all the places I haven't been. I

31:29
mean, I'm actually really curious about

31:31
going to a lot more of South America.

31:33
I've been to uh quite a few countries,

31:35
Colombia and Brazil and Argentina,

31:38
Chile. Um, but I'd love to go to um

31:41
Venezuela, for example, and just

31:44
experience more and the Galapagos.

Leading Financial Country

31:48
All right. What country do you think is

31:50
leading uh from a financial banking and

31:54
money standpoint that you're like, "Hey,

31:56
people should watch what they're doing."

31:58
China.

China's Technological Impact

32:00
Yeah.

32:00
Yeah. I China is changing the world and

32:04
we many of us don't just don't know.

32:06
When we talk about AI, we often talk

32:08
about um chat GPT and Grock and such

32:11
like China's got even better than those

32:14
systems. Um but most of the US and

32:18
Europe don't even know.

Mobile Payment Trends

32:20
Yeah. Well, it's interesting some of the

32:22
talks I've heard you give and some of

32:24
the stats you've shared. It is crazy how

32:27
much of the payment outside of America

32:28
happens on a mobile device. I I forget

32:31
the stats. I'm sure you could name it,

32:33
but it's listening to you, it's like

32:35
everything in the world happens on

32:36
mobile and in America it's only a small

32:38
portion that's happening on mobile. So

32:40
that's really interesting. Um, best

Best Advice Received

32:43
advice you've ever received.

32:46
Um,

32:50
wow,

32:52
difficult questions, Chris. Um, I guess

32:54
the best advice

32:55
after this,

32:56
yeah, the best advice I ever received is

32:59
probably

33:00
um, don't stand still. Always look to

33:05
tomorrow.

Focus on the Future

33:06
Love that. All right. And finally,

33:08
and specifically, I'll just I'll just

33:11
expand that comment because

33:12
specifically, I think it's that you you

33:15
can't change yesterday or today, but you

33:18
can change tomorrow. And so always focus

33:21
on what's next and don't look back.

Importance of Servant Leadership

33:26
That will flow perfectly into the final

33:28
question because we talked a lot about

33:30
servant leadership. Why should people

33:32
care about becoming better servant

33:34
leaders?

33:37
The key, I think, is that if you're not

33:41
doing something that's making you better

33:44
and your friends, family, relationships,

33:48
community better, what are you here for?

33:51
You're just here to, you know, look

33:53
after yourself and be selfish. Don't be

33:57
selfish. Think about everyone.

Podcast Closing

34:02
Well, Chris, thank you for taking the

34:03
time to be on the podcast and share a

34:06
lot of finance wisdom. Uh we're going to

34:08
put in the show notes how people can

34:09
follow you and uh start tracking with

34:11
what you're doing and hopefully uh think

34:14
about tomorrow a lot more.

34:16
Thank you for listening to this episode

34:18
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

34:21
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

34:23
it a thumbs up [music] and leave a

34:24
comment below. Don't forget to subscribe

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