David Iglesias Intro

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today on the servant leadership podcast we're honored to have David elius with us to share his journey and insights on

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leadership faith and the intersection of politics and law David is an accomplished American attorney and is

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currently the director of the Wheaten Center for Faith politics and economics in Illinois where he also serves as the

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Gene and E Floyd Cami associate professor of politics and law David was appointed by president pres George W

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bush is the US attorney for the District of New Mexico serving in this role for six years he's known for his integrity

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and dedication to Justice exemplifying the principles of servant leadership through his commitment to public service

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and ethical conduct in the movie A Few Good Men Tom Cruz plays a character inspired by David and a case he was a

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part of involving Marines at Guantanamo Bay today David will share his insights on how Faith integrity and servant

Welcome David Iglesias

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leadership can drive success and Foster a more just and compassionate Society Captain David

David's Career Path

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elus retired Navy Jag tell me a little bit about your career path and how you

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got here wow that's one of the biggest questions I've been asked in a very long time um so quickly um born to

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missionaries in Panama uh lived in Latin America for about eight years as a child

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my father is an indigenous Panamanian member of the kuna tribe one of the few unconquered tribes in all the Americas

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and my mother uh was a German American preachers kid yeah from Minnesota so how

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did they get together completely different story but they got together three months after they met they got married and I'm I'm the product of of

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that Union uh grew up in the United States and Panama um primarily in uh New

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Mexico and a little bit in Oklahoma came to Wheaten College as an undergrad felt

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like law was where I was meant to be uh meant to be and uh went to law school I

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wanted a an adventure not just a job so I went Navy Jag and it completely exceeded my wildest

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expectations yeah wow so I served 30 years of those 30 years 10 full-time

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years and then 20 years in the reserves but I had a ton of different jobs in involved in politics in my home state of

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New Mexico um I've been in the private sector uh was a White House fellow did

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lots of things finally hit the place in my career where I I I retired in 2014 from the US Navy um where I was doing

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war crimes prosecutions in Guantanamo and that's how I ended my career and then Wheaten College um said we have a

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center that needs a director would you apply wow talked to my wife and prayed

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about it talked about it sweated about it thought on the one hand go back home make a lot of money and get bored out of

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my mind on the other hand earn a lot less money but make a difference in the lives of a lot of bright young kids so

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I've been here for nine years wow that's amazing well thank you for your service

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absolutely really really appreciate that as as you think through that trajectory that's not your normal trajectory no um

US Attorney Leadership Shaping Experience

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how how did your experience early on being a US attorney how did that

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actually shape your leadership what you know about leadership today yeah so I

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became us attorney for the District of New Mexico and just to let you know that the president gets to appoint all 93

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United States attorneys um were confirmed by the Senate and then our job is enforce

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federal law how many federal laws are there who knows thousands at least at least 30,000 but we focus on maybe the

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most common several hundred um my job was to enforce federal law in the border on the

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border state because we share 140 miles with the Mexican state of Chihuahua uh and also I had two

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three military bases 21 Native American reservations and a virtually half the

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state was Federal because of you know uh National Laboratories um forests

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Parks people out in the midwest don't understand it but out west a lot of the country is federal so who has to enforce

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the law and maintain help maintain good order and discipline it's a US attorney so I was 43 and not already but

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at that point spent about 15 years as a Navy Jag and I I learned a lot of really positive lessons and one was to make

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sure that my office knew me so I'd walk around throughout my six years there I'd

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sit down and talk to an assistant prosecutor um a secretary a paralal

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whoever was there I just sit down and have this kind of conversation because I wanted them to understand that I that I not only cared about the mission of the

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justice department but I cared about them wow so it's called walk about management or walk about leadership yeah

Surprise of Position's High Visibility

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when when you started getting into all this did you realize how in the public eye your career would be I had no idea I

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I really didn't and you have to remember um generally it's a pretty quiet 4 to eighty year appointment um there's

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almost because we have to undergo a really in-depth background investigation

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so the FBI investigated me until my until going back to my 18th birthday

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that was like 25 years of investigation and I've lived a pretty boring life which is good for this Pro for this

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position right uh and very rarely do us attorneys get in trouble because all

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those that have anything questionable don't get the nomination so yeah I just figured I'd

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put in my time and then I would probably run run for a higher office at some point what was that like I mean i' I've

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seen many interviews with you and you're on some major news news networks throughout your career what was that

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like going from unbelievable I mean I us should think it was a big deal to be

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quoted u in the Albuquerque Journal and then next thing I knew after I got fired was you know Meet the Press and uh um

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who's the guy who was with CBS News Dan Rather I was on Dan rather's show I was all on these shows I'm thinking oh what

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blew my mind was when Denmark sent a Danish TV crew and I said what why is this news in Denmark and they said you

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don't understand what happens in America affects the world wow and that's when I realized what a huge job that I had had

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wow that would have been really awesome yeah as I think when a lot of people

Movie - A Few Good Men

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hear your story they often go to uh the movie A Few Good Men I mean how many

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people ask you about that movie all the time uh which is fine because it was one of these things that happened early in

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my career I think that was my second or third Court Marshal case I was 20 7 28

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so I was pretty young and uh you know we we did go to Guantanamo what what really

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helped me was I was stationed with Lieutenant W sorin if that last name rings the bell her brother Aaron wrote

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the screenplay and wrote the play there were 10 Marines involved we

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defended all 10 seven took the deal from the base but my client didn't do and two others said we will not take the

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deal we were ordered to do the code R and we want to fight this so we had three separate trials

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and you know I I was so taken by this as a 27y old lawyer that I thought I'm

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going to write a short story about this and I started I have the note somewhere I got two pages I called it incident at

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Guantanamo never finished it sorin obviously did and the rest is

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history wow what what was that like I mean even just going through the process of hearing how did you first hear that

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they're going to make a movie out of part of your life so I had friends still in D series so I well I left active duty

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the first time and moved back to New Mexico and then I got an email from one of my Navy buddies saying hey they the

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Kennedy Center in Washington DC is doing a play called A Few Good Men this written by Aon sorcin I thought Debbie

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sorin must have given her brother the transcripts because it's a fascinating case because the issue is never did they

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do it the issue was who ordered it and who should be responsible for for this for this injury uh that what the issue

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is about um so it completely blew my mind to use an old

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fashioned term yeah when I I recently watched the movie again knowing that I was going to talk to you how I mean

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movies are obviously dramatized how realistic was was the movie was it actually like what happened or is it

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very dramatized well in part yes so I would say on a scale of one to 100 100

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being like the perfect Ken Burns documentary it was maybe a 80 oh wow

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because there really was a code red it was in Guantanamo there was a trial but

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the victim actually lived so major difference there because in the movie he dies right but the names was barely

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changed so the victim was a private first class Willie Santiago in in in the

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movie in the real case it was Private F class Willie Alvarado um they took the character

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played by kefir suin um they they took the name of one of the female lawyers

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who defended the Marines and and use so Lieutenant Kendrick was actually a female Navy Jag in the movie Lieutenant

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Kendrick was the marine the Hardcore Marine uh um officer Junior officer wow

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did did the scene happen that everyone can quote a million times when you when you when you say I want the truth you

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can't handle the no no that that was completely Aon sorin's genius okay yeah look as as a junior officer Jag you

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don't scream at a combat tested Marine Colonel and and lived to tell about it so no it was very respectful um but I

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mean that just showed you sorin's genius in writing just a terrific uh fact

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factual based movie in play yep I think even if people haven't seen the movie everyone has heard that quote I mean

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genius writing I I heard it was voted one of the top 10 best movie lines of all time yeah I don't doubt that at all
Fired From US Attorney Position

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so thinking through you your career path was amazing to say the least as you

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are um toward the end of your practicing career if you will um you ended up

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having an experience that you probably thought you wouldn't have uh leaving the Bush Administration um to some extent

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and you wrote a book about it did um tell us a little bit about what that was like how you ended up in this role and

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how you ended up out of the role yeah so I I was let's see

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40 I got the call H on Pearl Harbor day uh December 7th 2006 so I was like 48

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years old yeah I thought I thought I had a world by you know by its tail and then I get this call from a guy that I knew

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at the justice department he goes hey we want to go another way we really want your resignation I thought what for

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because I just had my office um evaluated and thumbs up and then I realized wait a minute we're political

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pointees we we're we we serve at the pleasure of the president but I also

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remembered that I'd received two inappropriate phone calls uh snooping around about cases we were investigating

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so we were investigating the then governor of the state of New Mexico Bill Richardson and uh Senator Pete dommini

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who was the at that point the ranking Republican senator or Senator period of

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the state had called me and was snooping around about uh when I was going to be indicting him I couldn't answer that

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question um and then he said the words that haunted him cost him a lot of legal

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bills that was will it be before the election wow because we cannot Rush it's

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always been doj policy justice department policy to not file indictments for political effect that's

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what they do in in corrupt little countries and we which were not one of those so

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I I thought back to that phone call and the congresswoman Heather Wilson also called me but she she wasn't as direct

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and now she didn't have the political oomph to call the White House and say we

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you know we want this guy going because he's not being politically Savvy but what really nailed it and I didn't put this in my book because I didn't know

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this at the time after the book came out I get a call in Washington DC when I'm living because I went back in the Navy

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and I got a call from one of Pete de min's assistants and she said I think she was intoxicated cuz she repeated

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herself a couple of times which is always a like a dead giveaway right she said do you know why you got fired I

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said well I have my theories what do you think she goes you weren't looking out after the party and I said absolutely

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true because that's not that wasn't my job my job was a prosecute bad guys and en forc federal laws you know having the

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the party as a uh client was was not what I was signed up for so in the

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roundabout way yeah that that entire episode unnerved me um I was out of work

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for seven months it was awful um I think all of us are used to having health

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insurance I didn't have health insurance for like six months at that time and you're just waiting for the shoe to drop

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you're waiting for one of your kids I had four little kids at that time to like break a leg on a you know

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playground accident it never happened but wow uh I was really nervous if

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something awful was going to happen and then and then what happened was was the beginning of the Redemption which

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was U I got contacted by a book agent and then all these speaking engagements

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rolled in I thought to myself is this really that big of a deal and as time

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went on I realized this had never happened that no president that hired had fired that many of his his own us

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attorneys prior years he had fired the last administrations which is fine but

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never their own so we all formed this little league we call it the Justice League kind of like the comic book

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series right and um and we stayed in in close contact we testified in

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Congress um both in the house and the Senate on the same day uh seven different investigations launched um the

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Justice Department lost 12 people as a result of of Our Testimony I mean it it was a huge

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deal at the time and my daughter said dad you're in the history books I said

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what are you talking about she said she said well I just took a history class and you're in it I'm like what really so

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so yeah it was it was an earth shattering experience for somebody who thought his life was going to go One

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Direction and then it ended up taking a huge shift when you think through like all

Two Significant Life Experiences

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these different significant moments you've had which there have been clearly a lot many that people know about

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probably many that people don't know anything about what are maybe one or two really significant moments that people

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might not be as familiar with based on what's public knowledge or what's just been happening in your life right well

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marrying who I married made all the difference in the world because uh because Cindy was U seven years younger

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than me uh she hadn't finished her college education yet when I when I met her and she she was a risk taker she

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said yes when a lot of women would said no so when you hear about um women being

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forc multipliers I know it's not very romantic but it but it's true a force multiplier is something that without it

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a good result cannot happen explain a little bit force multipliers for a for multiplier is a good military term so

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for example um a the Jets on a aircraft

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carrier is a force multiplier because what the Jets do is it pushes the power out hundreds of miles and

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those Jets can fire missiles and take out not only Ground locations but ship

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locations I mean it it it it multiplies the inherent force that one object has

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and and in a similar way I always had potential but my wife brought that potential to bear and encouraged me to

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run for office encouraged me to put in for White House Fellowship which also put me in contact with lots of national

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leaders um so yeah had I not married her I I would have had a quiet government

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job in DC and I'd probably be counting widgets at some point and you and I

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wouldn't be talking to right is when when you were running for office I mean

Running For Political Office

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it's not not everyone's plan to run for office it wasn't part of your initial plan I don't think probably no how didd

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you come to that decision and what was that Journey like so here's what I I

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I've learned a lot of lessons big lessons and small lessons but one of the bigger lessons was if you do well in a

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political race your career is not over that positions you to be to run again for something else I didn't realize that

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or to be appointed to something else so I ran for attorney general for the state of New Mexico in 1998 I just

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turned 40 years old and why did I run there was a vacancy um so I didn't have

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to worry about run yes an incumbent uh New Mexico is overwhelmingly Democratic

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um I was a Republican and but I knew that that state had only elected one

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Republican attorney general since 1928 I knew that because I'd work for him and I

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said how'd you do it Al he goes I think it was because there a snowstorm on the day of the election in the northern part

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of the state where there's high concentrations of Democrats CU he only won by a few hundred votes wow so I

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thought this is going to be an uphill battle but I ran raised a ton of money a

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record amount of money and had a lot of fun uh lost a ton of weight uh which is

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always cool if if you want to lose weight which I did um and I came I I was

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only beaten by two points by uh somebody in five times previously wow so I I I knew I figured from that point on I had

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potential and then two years later Bush won and then I put in to be us attorney which was the Federal version of what I

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had run for but with a bigger office a bigger budget just it was like I'd run

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for um let's see I'm going to give something relevant what what what's a

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common oh I I'd run for a Toyota Camry and I ended up with a with a Tesla or something right wow that's amazing as

Mentors Who Impacted David's Life

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you think through people who helped you along the way mentors key figures in your life who comes to mind and why I

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can think of two people um Admiral Bill Payne was uh a friend of mine uh Navy

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Admiral not not a Jag he was a seal but he had the best sense of humor and he used to come in my office in Santa Fe

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and Shout at the top of his voice glacius keep up the adequate

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work yeah which was my reaction I thought well Bill's here and just his

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good humor and his focus and his humanity and his encouragement really really made a difference uh and then my

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father who very quietly you know uh showed me what what real leadership was

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you know he came from an indigenous background in Panama was educated in America uh pastored churches and just

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but he was always there for me and so dad's oh be there for your kids so drive

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the 6 hours to see their games cuz they're going to remember that when they're 65 for example cuz he my dad

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drove six hours from Santa Fe to clobas New Mexico to watch me stand in the sidelines because I was injured that

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game wow and I'll never forget that wow yeah that's amazing when you think through that type of leadership a lot of

Thoughts About Servant Leadership

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people listening to this podcast are going to be wondering questions about servant leadership yeah um what do you

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think of when you hear servant leadership it's funny that phrase was something that I hadn't heard until

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maybe 20 years ago and now I hear it all the time I initially I heard it from Christians now I hear it from a lot of

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military people who may or may not be Christians but to me a servant leader is someone who's not going to ask anyone to

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do something that he or she's not willing to do themselves and somebody who actually does does that that's good

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so get your hands dirty uh don't just Direct by Fiat um and remember you're part of the

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team and and oh and also you're not always going to be the leader leaders

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come and go what is more important is the mission of the organization so what's the mission and there are career

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people are going to stay there a lot longer than you I have people back in Albuquerque that I hired in 2001 Chris

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wow it's 22 years ago yeah and I know that because I'm still in contact with

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him that's amazing to think about as as you watch some of those people and other people especially in politics education

Examples of Good Servant Leaders

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yeah uh Public Service how do you how do you see people exhibit servant

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leadership any any standouts who is a good servant leader

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someone who is willing to get their hands dirty someone who is willing to um to keep their ego in check and that's

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hard because power is so I don't want to say just corrupting but it it it it indelibly marks it's like a ink that

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never washes out never washes out of your soul h uh and power power has that

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influence and when you've had real power like i' I've I've been responsible for a couple of death penalty cases I mean how

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often do you talk to somebody who can literally put somebody to death it's

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massively um if your mind's not right destabilizing um so who stands out as a

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good servant leader let me think about that um and it may maybe well I I'll

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think back to one of my first bosses is a guy named David Campbell who is the the C City attorney of Albuquerque he put in the hours he would

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never do something he' never ask you to do something he wouldn't do he was ethical um he in fact he's come and

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talked here a couple times here at ween College W uh so I I tend to remember people who had an influence in my life

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wow so speaking of ween College you've been helping students now for since 2014

Advice For Today's Student Leaders

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yeah n years as as you think through your career journey and what students are experiencing today what are some

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similarities what are some big differences for students who are thinking about leadership and just the

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future Workforce of America yeah I I think things are are different

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fundamentally now in 2023 than they were in the late 70s um we we we had a

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general judeo-christian um culture now not so much I think people are doing

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what's right in their own eyes uh which causes problems um one thing that is the

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same is then and now the students think they have their lives figured out huh what a joke nobody has their life

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figured out um and but you don't know that when you're 19 20 years old you end

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up and what's always fascinating me is talking to my students who have been out five or 10 years and they're doing things that they never could have

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conceived possible you you know you you look at pictures of me from the 70s and I I had a I had a huge afro and I have

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Mr bad attitude I didn't do Ry you know I I remember getting into an argument with a federal judge I didn't know he

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was a federal judge who was a West Point grad I was arguing that military schools are outdated because of nuclear weapons

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and we really got into it I would never take that position out because I've actually been in the military for a long

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time so so yeah um it's it's been real

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journey I think it's harder now to to graduate from Wheaten um and

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make a difference for several reasons I think the pervasiveness of social

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media um we didn't have to worry about that I think the culture is now has

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shifted so that now students have to be careful what they say in a way that we

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really didn't um but having said that we can grads are still doing great things I

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mean I I bring him as as part of my Center all the time yeah as as you think

Work Life Balance Advice

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through challenges that people are facing especially people who are going to be watching this podcast probably um

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well-meaning and potentially high potential leaders um it's tough to have

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a balancing act of work life personal life um maybe other areas of life that

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matter to people how did you throw your career balance did you balance well and

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what advice would you give to people you have to ask my wife that question what would she say I I think she would say

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that yes that generally speaking especially in more recent years my life

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is more balanced when when you're in your 20s and 30s your education is right behind you but all that knowledge is

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fresh you want to you want to go as far as you can in that organization or in that field and you're willing to put in

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the hours but at some point all say in your 30s when you have a few kids you realize I dismissed my daughter's

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birthday because of that deal I was working and then when you're a little bit older you feel guilty about it but

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you w't you do it again then a few years later you realize I'm never going to get that back and at some point if you have

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a conscience you realize that that sacrifice wasn't worth it and you start doing things so you

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don't have to work on weekends I have a nephew who works weekends evenings

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every time I see him it looks worse you know he became a lawyer because of me I I feel a little bit responsible because he became a lawyer because of me and uh

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you know um he's got high he he's earned more money than I've ever earned but I think he's also not enjoyed law as much

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as I have yeah when people when my students say and I have one student I'm thinking of right now who is in law

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school he's clerk for a federal judge he's going to do great things but he I

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almost got talked out of by his uncle who said lawyers are miserable people

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and you shouldn't go to law school so the student comes up to me and says what do you think of that I said well where

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does he work well he works for a giant firm right I said you should have talked to Guys Like Me have been in public

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service yeah we've earned a fraction of what they've earned but so what we we have weekends off and holidays off we

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have a life we have vacations imagine that we don't have you know three vacations home but they don't spend time

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in those homes because they're working so at some point in your career you've got to decide what's more important to

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have balance or to ring the brass bell and you know make millions or billions

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now making a lot of money was never important to me and that I think was foundational to me trying to live a life

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in Balance also the Navy encouraged being physically fit so for 30 years I

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had to be tested every six months running push-ups sit-ups now it's

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planking um uh swimming and I had to keep my weight

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under a certain amount that discipline applies across the board wow so I I feel

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very um I feel very obligated you to the service for helping me learn that life

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lesson when I was 26 years old H it it was interesting even just watching uh

Military Training Impact

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watching the movie being reminded of like just how intense some of the military service

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is you know whether it's Navy Army Air Force Coast Guard whatever um thinking

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through what they go through as a Jag officer were you going through all of the exact same training and H how is

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that different than the other people who are serving oh well that's that's a very good question Chris um in my mind the

28:55
least painful way to become en of officer is to be a lawyer a doctor a dentist and a go through officer

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development school because you're commissioned first and then you go so you don't have sweaty Marine drill

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instructors screaming in your ears like my daughter is experiencing right now in in Newport Rhode Island because she's

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doing it the hard way she's doing she's going through officer candidate school so she has to prove her medal got it

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that's the hardest way um although arguably you know being at the Naval Academy or Military Academy Air Force

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Academy for four years is also very hard but it's not as concentrated as as that

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12we period uh so and then if you're enlisted it's not easy because for the

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first time you're hearing people screaming at high volumes no you're not

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special they're breaking you down um because the culture has changed

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so that everybody's special everybody gets a ribbon and to which the military would say

29:54
baloney and one of the first one of the best things that the military did for me was kept my help keep my ego in check

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because as the only son and the youngest of three children I was indulged military doesn't care about

30:07
that he cares about achieving the mission training you to be an ethical competent professional lawyer and I I

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would like to think that uh that it did that job what do you think about that leadership style that you're talking

Business Lessons Learned In The Military

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about how so many uh Cadets or future Cadets go through um compared to

30:29
leadership that you might see in business what what crossover is there what lessons can people learn looking at the military about leadership and

30:35
servant leadership I think some of the best lessons um or some of the best

30:41
leaders come from the military because they they they've had to learn those hard lessons that maybe if you go to

30:47
business school you don't learn because it's all about you know doing well in school and earning a lot you know getting the right job and coming up with

30:54
a great idea and pushing it forward there's no right of passage in the same

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way as the military where they break you down as my youngest daughter's finding

31:07
out um and then build you right back up she she had to earn the right to use the computer she had to earn the right to

31:14
get her cell phone back which she's not had her cell phone out for two months it'll be another week or two until she gets the cell phone back wow when was

31:21
the last time you heard of somebody voluntarily giving up their cell phone I can't think of a time for 10 weeks or

31:28
yeah I mean even one week would be crazy yeah I mean some people couldn't do it for more than CLE an hour or so so all

31:35
that to say that I think service leadership is is servant leadership

31:41
really has flourished in the military because you see leaders who are getting their hands dirty who are

31:48
working the hours with you who are uh running who are in the wait room with

31:53
you who are acting honorably who are um being ethical they're not just talking

31:58
about ethics they're actually showing it right wow this been fascinating as you

Life Lessons To Share

32:05
think through all the different life lessons that you've learned is there any key takeaway that you hope I mean you've

32:11
already shared some about being present with your kids about how to treat other people any others that you think PE is

32:16
worth sharing with people based on things you've learned in your own life um yeah this is really hard this is

32:24
it's going to be a very simple statement but it'll be extremely hard to do try to practice being others oriented so put

32:30
the needs of other people first easy to say hard to practice but um if you if if you are

32:39
empathetic you you'll do well in life one of the things that they don't teach you in business school or law school or

32:45
medical school is people with high EQ do better than

32:52
people with high IQ I can't tell you how many really smart really credential people work for me M um people went to

32:59
the top five or 10 law schools in the country which I did not go to but I end

33:04
up getting the job because I could listen I could treat them respectfully I could disagree

33:11
respectfully those are life skills and sadly um in many parts of our country

33:17
we've lost that again I I I hold social media largely responsible and I'm not on

33:23
social media for that reason u i I Know Myself and I don't trust myself I would

33:28
never put myself out on Facebook or Twitter especially uh speed is not

33:34
always the best thing sometimes quiet slow contemplation is

33:40
better um so that's something else that I've learned um the world is not always

33:46
entitled to your opinion um so I hope hope that generally

33:52
answers your questions no that's great we finish all interviews here with 10

Ten Rapid-Fire Questions

33:57
rapid fire questions in 60 seconds so I'm just going to say some ask a few questions and you just say the first

34:03
thing that comes to your mind sure um if needs more than one or two words that's fine but um first person you think of

34:10
when I say servant leadership George HW

34:15
Bush that's a good one um five words to describe

34:21
yourself blessed unicorn misunderstood

34:31
optimistic physically fit wow I feel like with both those first two I feel like we should do a whole another

34:37
podcast episode um favorite author or book fiction or non-fiction you choose

34:44
for fiction Norman mlan river runs through it and other short stories I I I

34:50
read it every year wow for uh non-fiction let me say Guns Germs and

34:56
Steel by jar Diamond okay wow favorite movie that would be charer of fire okay

35:06
let's number two is the way which is being re-released tomorrow for one day really that's what I was watching when

35:12
you got me in my office oh wow I got to need to look at that uh favorite food

35:17
Mexican okay favorite thing to do in your free time run or swim or lift surprising fact

35:25
about you that's a hard one surprising uh that I

35:32
like to write poetry wow yeah have you Ed any of the AI to help write poetry or

35:39
just try computers have no soul okay okay that's fair um favorite place

35:45
you've been Mach picu oh wow that'd be awesome place that you want to visit

35:51
that you have not visited before Petra but that's going to be fixed in a month wow that'll be amazing best advice

35:58
you've ever gotten the best advice I've ever

36:06
gotten

36:11
is Take the Long View everything you do of it significance should be thought of in

36:18
generational terms multi-generations the iroy would say up to seven generations I

36:23
I can't even think that far but but that's that's what they thought why do you think people don't do that as

36:29
much now oh because Americans we we value speed expediency uh we don't think of

36:36
consequence because if we can get it done we we'll build that building we'll what what did Janie Mitchell say we'll

36:43
pay over Paradise and put up a parking lot that's absolutely

36:48
true wow this I I don't ask this to everybody because those were the 10

36:53
rapid fire but last one did you end up meeting Tom Cruz who played you in a few good men no you didn't okay I

37:02
wish oh well thank you so much I know viewers will really enjoy carrying your

Closing

37:07
perspective and I really appreciate you taking the time thank you very much Chris thanks a lot thank you for listening to this episode of the servant

37:14
leadership podcast if you enjoyed what you heard please give it a thumbs up and leave a comment below don't forget to

37:22
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