Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast, we welcome Dr. Everett Piper, President Emeritus of Oklahoma Wesleyan University and the best-selling author of Not a Day Care: The Devastating Consequences of Abandoning Truth. For seventeen years, Everett led Oklahoma Wesleyan from relative obscurity and the brink of financial collapse to a position of national recognition and influence, eliminating the school’s debt, more than doubling its revenue, and completing over $17 million in capital improvements along the way. At the heart of that turnaround were his Four Ps — the Primacy of Christ, the Priority of Scripture, the Pursuit of Truth, and the Practice of Wisdom — a framework that shaped every decision he made and every challenge he faced as a leader. Everett gained national attention in 2015 when his viral essay, “This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University!,” sparked a cultural conversation about courage, conviction, and what it truly means to educate the next generation. A recipient of the Jeane Kirkpatrick Award for Academic Freedom and a columnist for The Washington Times, Everett has built his life’s work around leading with clarity and standing firm when it’s easier to stay silent. Join us as we talk about leading with boldness, knowing when to step into the gap, and how to finish well when it’s time to hand the baton to the next leader.
Episode Transcript
Father’s Advice
0:00
My dad didn’t have a high school
0:01
diploma. He was a truck driver. Wasn’t
0:03
stupid, but he didn’t have a formal
0:05
education. I get my first job, and it’s
0:07
a good paying job. It’s a good tool and
0:09
die shop, good factory. He pulls me
0:11
aside before I I go to work my first
0:13
night, third shift. He says, “Hey, after
0:15
you’re done doing what they tell you to
0:17
do, go find a broom and start sweeping.”
0:20
I’ll never forget that. Always look for
0:22
a broom to start sweeping. Don’t stand
0:24
around and wait to be told what to do.
0:27
You’ve got a brain. You’ve got ambition,
0:30
you’ve got passion. Pick up a broom and
0:32
just start sweeping and people people
0:34
will see you.
Introducing Dr. Everett Piper
0:41
Today on the servant leadership podcast,
0:43
we welcome Dr. Everett Piper, president
0:45
emeritus of Oklahoma Wesleyan University
0:48
and the best-selling author of Not a
0:49
Daycare, the devastating consequences of
0:51
abandoning truth. For 17 years, Everett
0:54
led Oklahoma Wesleian from relative
0:56
obscurity and the brink of financial
0:58
collapse to a position of national
0:59
recognition and influence, eliminating
1:02
the school’s debt, more than doubling
1:04
its revenue, and completing over $17
1:06
million in capital improvements along
1:08
the way. At the heart of that turnaround
1:10
were his four Ps. The primacy of Christ,
1:12
the priority of scripture, the pursuit
1:14
of truth, and the practice of wisdom. A
1:16
framework that shaped every decision he
1:18
made and every challenge he faced as a
1:20
leader. Everett gained national
1:22
attention in 2015 when his viral essay,
1:25
This is not a daycare, it’s a
1:27
university, sparked a cultural
1:29
conversation about courage, conviction,
1:31
and what it truly means to educate the
1:33
next generation. A recipient of the Gene
1:35
Kirkpatre Award for Academic Freedom and
1:38
a columnist for the Washington Times,
1:40
Everett has built his life’s work around
1:42
leading with clarity and standing firm
1:44
when it’s easier to stay silent. Join us
1:47
as we talk about leading with boldness,
1:49
knowing when to step into the gap, and
1:51
how to finish well when it’s time to
1:53
hand the baton to the next leader.
Everett Joins the Podcast
1:56
Everett, thank you for joining us on the
1:58
Servant Leadership Podcast.
2:00
Oh, I’m honored to join you. Thanks for
2:01
reaching out and asking. Uh, I’m really
2:04
excited because your journey of
2:07
presidency at what turned out to be a
2:09
major university was a fascinating run.
2:12
Talk about how you became president of a
2:14
university.
Becoming University President
2:16
Well, first uh sidebar and segue into
2:19
answering that question. I need to
2:20
apologize to you and the rest of your
2:22
viewers for my attire this morning. Um I
2:26
I retired and I do a little ranching
2:28
right now out in the foothills of the
2:30
Oage uh in Oklahoma. So, forgive me.
2:34
I’ve been out with horses and other
2:36
animals this morning. So, I don’t mean
2:38
to show disrespect to you. Hopefully,
2:40
you can endure uh my ball cap, my
2:42
hunting cap here.
2:43
I wish I wore mine. Um, so, uh, ask me
2:48
your question again. Forgive me for
2:50
that.
2:50
Yeah. How did you land being president
2:53
of a major university?
Accepting the Presidency
2:55
Well, it was in 2002, and I’ll try to
2:59
make the answer short rather than long.
3:00
I had been a vice president of various
3:02
different departments at my alma mater
3:04
up in Michigan, uh, Christian University
3:07
up there. I had been vice president for
3:09
admissions, vice president for
3:10
development. I had been an executive
3:13
assistant um for the president in
3:16
special projects. So, I I had several of
3:20
those um experiences to on my resume,
3:24
and I just finished my PhD at Michigan
3:26
State University, and the search
3:28
consultant for a small little Christian
3:31
college down in Northeast Oklahoma
3:32
called Oklahoma Wesley University
3:35
reached out to me immediately upon my
3:37
graduation from Michigan State with my
3:39
PhD. And he said, “Do you want to be a
3:41
candidate for a presidency down here?”
3:43
And I said, “Oh, okay. Why not? I’m 41,
3:45
42 years old. I’ll put my my my name in
3:49
and we’ll see how this works. If nothing
3:52
else, I’ll learn what it is to interview
3:54
for a presidency and maybe that’ll
3:55
benefit me somewhere down the road. Long
3:57
story short, went down and interviewed
3:59
at Oklahoma Wesley and they were in
4:00
financial crisis, financial ex exigency.
4:04
In fact, they were about 12 months away
4:06
from declaring bankruptcy and shutting
4:08
it down. I did not want the job. Um, I
4:12
flew home and I thought, boy, I don’t
4:14
know who the fool is that’s going to
4:16
take this job, but I don’t want it to be
4:18
me because he might be that transitional
4:21
leader that actually hands the keys over
4:23
to the bank um and shuts the place down
4:25
with grace. And some leaders are called
4:27
to do that. Uh, I turned it down. I
4:31
called the search uh chair and said,
4:33
“No, thank you.” They offered it and I
4:35
said, “No, thank you.” And then my wife
4:38
scolded me. Essentially, she wagged her
4:41
finger in my face and said, “It’s about
4:43
time for you to start doing something on
4:45
the basis of faith rather than logic.
4:48
You call them back and tell them we’re
4:50
coming.” So, um, we packed our bags and
4:54
moved from Michigan to Oklahoma in 2002.
4:57
Like I said, the school was in deep
4:59
financial crisis. Um, I know a lot of
5:03
your listeners and viewers to your
5:05
podcast will understand these numbers.
5:09
The total revenue for Oklahoma Wesley
5:11
University in 2002 was less than $8
5:14
million. They were trying to run the
5:17
entire institution of 600 and some odd
5:19
students on $8 million. The debt was
5:23
$7.2
5:25
million. So revenue is about 8 million.
5:29
Um debt is 7.2.
5:33
Revenue is declining. Enrollment is
5:35
declining and debt is increasing. the
5:37
arrows are crossing in the wrong
5:38
direction for this particular business
5:40
and that’s what I inherited. So came in,
5:44
I was a deer in the headlights. I
5:46
thought maybe I am that transitional
5:48
leader that God has chosen in his
5:49
providence to shut this place down with
5:51
grace as financially um responsible as
5:56
we can do it. But that’s not what
5:58
happened. In fact, maybe I’ll shut up
6:00
and let you redirect after this
6:02
particular
Inheriting a Failing Institution
6:04
um anecdote. I quickly realized as a
6:07
42year-old kid that it’s a blessing to
6:11
inherit failure rather than success
6:13
because a leader can do a lot of things.
6:16
A leader can do a lot of things if the
6:19
ship is sinking as opposed to people
6:22
thinking it’s healthy and well. The
6:24
board will let you do some things. The
6:26
faculty will let you get away with a lot
6:28
more in a failing institution than they
6:30
would in one that they think is a
6:32
success.
6:34
Now, did I know that when I took the
6:36
job? No, I don’t think I completely
6:37
understood that. But I learned that
6:39
quickly in terms of crafting, crafting
6:41
mission, crafting direction, making bold
6:43
decisions, going big or going home, and
6:46
being a different institution rather
6:49
than just the vanilla Christian college
6:52
uh model that was out there. Because
6:54
quite quite frankly, if you win, great.
6:57
That’s God’s grace. But if you lose, go
6:58
down fighting. It’s the right thing to
7:01
do. And when the institution is
7:03
struggling, you’ve got some latitude to
7:05
do that in a much more dynamic and bold
7:07
way than you would if you inherited
7:09
something that, like I said, quote
7:10
unquote, is a success.
Crafting a New Mission
7:12
What are some of those things that you
7:14
were able to do that you think, gosh,
7:15
other universities just couldn’t have
7:17
done this?
7:18
Well, one of the first things I did was
7:20
um craft a mission. Um, let me go back.
7:26
I think one of the basic things in
7:28
addition and I think the mission the
7:29
crafting of the mission is the key at
7:31
least that’s the key to leadership in my
7:33
view
7:35
is a bold and distinct and clear
7:37
mission. Uh
7:40
if if you’re nothing other than the
7:41
vanilla carbon copy of everything else
7:43
that’s out there then why would anyone
7:44
want to buy you? You’ve got to be bold.
7:46
You’ve got to be different. You’ve got
7:48
to be distinct. So we’ll get into that
7:50
in a second. But I think one of the
7:52
other things, the pragmatic thing is
7:53
budgetary issues. I was I had to make
7:56
tough budget decisions. We had to
7:58
balance our budget. So, personnel
8:00
decisions, budget decisions, uh we can’t
8:03
spend more money than we have. I mean,
8:06
this is common sense. It’s sense that’s
8:08
common. And frankly, this institution
8:10
for decades has been doing the opposite
8:13
just like a lot of businesses and a lot
8:14
of governmental organizations do. They
8:17
spend more money than they have for
8:19
whatever reason. We think we can do that
8:20
today. And that’s not a good model for
8:23
success. So, we had to live within our
8:25
means. Uh, living within your means when
8:27
you’re in crisis is a lot easier than
8:29
living within your means when you’re
8:31
successful because people think, well,
8:32
we’re successful. We’ve got the money,
8:34
even though they may not.
8:36
And that attitude will eventually lead
8:38
them to crisis. And Oklahoma Wesland had
8:41
come to that point over decades of the
8:43
presumption of, well, we’ve got the
8:45
money or we’ll find the money or we’ll
8:47
build it and they will come. That type
8:49
of attitude. No. If we’ve got $7.9
8:54
million, our budget is going to be 7.89,
8:58
we’re going to budget, live within it,
9:00
and we’re going to have a little bit of
9:01
gravy, a little bit of extra to build
9:04
for the future. So, we crafted a budget
9:07
that not only covered expenses, but
9:09
covered depreciation, which almost no
9:12
nonprofits do. Almost all these
9:14
Christian colleges and universities out
9:16
there that tell you they’re balancing
9:17
their budget, they fail to tell you that
9:21
they’re balancing on an expense and
9:23
revenue basis, but they’re not balancing
9:25
when it comes to depreciation. They
9:26
don’t cover it. So, we built a budget in
9:30
this crisis that covered revenue and
9:33
expenses, but it also covered
9:35
depreciation. And that put us in a
9:37
position that within five or 10 years,
9:38
Bane was citing us. Bane was citing us
9:41
as in the top quartortile in the nation
9:43
for financial viability for colleges and
9:45
universities. So we moved from financial
9:47
exigency and borderline bankruptcy to
9:50
within I can’t remember for sure. I
9:51
think it was five six years or
9:53
thereabout maybe add a couple where we
9:56
were actually cited as being in the top
9:58
25% in the nation of all colleges and
10:00
universities with regard to financial
10:02
viability because we were one of the few
10:04
out there that was actually covering
10:06
depreciation in addition to covering the
10:08
revenue expenses side of our budget. Now
Establishing a Clear Mission
10:11
back to mission
10:13
um I I I think that’s critical. Um
10:17
uh we decided I I remember I went to a
10:19
faculty meeting maybe my first when I
10:22
was at Oklahoma West and we’re in
10:24
crisis. This brand new college president
10:26
from freshly minted PhD from Michigan
10:29
went behind the ears. Everybody knew it.
10:31
Everybody knew I probably had the job
10:32
because nobody else was dumb enough to
10:33
accept it. I mean that’s the situation I
10:36
was in. And I looked at all of our
10:37
faculty in this first faculty meeting
10:39
and I said, “Can anybody in here tell me
10:41
what the mission of Oklahoma Wesleyan
10:43
University is?” And I remembered as
10:46
clear as this conversation, one of the
10:48
lead faculty, his name was Dr. Diy,
10:51
respected good man. He said yes. and he
10:54
leaned over and he reached in in his
10:56
back pocket to pull out his billfold and
10:58
pull a business card out for Oklahoma
11:00
Wesley that had the existing mission
11:02
statement printed on the back of that
11:04
card, which probably sounds familiar to
11:06
a lot of you right now. That’s often
11:07
what we do. You print your mission
11:09
statement on the back of your business
11:10
card. And he started to read it to me
11:12
and the rest of the faculty. And I
11:14
stopped him and I said, “No, no, no.
11:16
That’s not what I mean. I don’t want you
11:18
to read it to me. I want you to tell me
11:21
what the mission statement of this
11:22
university is. And I got blank stairs.
11:25
Nobody nobody said anything. And that’s
11:28
the reason we’re failing is we don’t
11:31
know who we are. And I know I’m
11:34
repeating myself, but if we’re nothing
11:35
but a vanilla copy of Indiana Westland
11:37
or H Hotton College or Taylor University
11:40
or Westmont or Weaten or Biola or fill
11:42
in the blank, if we’re no different and
11:44
distinct from these other Christian
11:46
colleges, why in the world would anybody
11:48
want to pay money to come here in
11:51
Oklahoma?
Creating the Four Ps
11:52
So, with that as the context and with
11:55
crisis as the reality, the context of my
11:59
leadership, I said, “We’re going to redo
12:01
our mission statement.” I didn’t put a
12:03
committee together to committee the dumb
12:05
thing to death. I just wrote it, which
12:08
is unusual. A lot of Christian colleges
12:10
wouldn’t allow a president to do that. I
12:11
just rewrote it and I came up with these
12:13
three these pillars.
12:16
The primacy of Jesus Christ. Jesus is
12:18
the son of God. The priority of
12:20
scripture. The Bible is the word of God.
12:22
The pursuit of truth. Truth is given by
12:24
God, not made up by you or me. And then
12:27
I was stalled. I thought I only can come
12:29
up with three. But I I I like um
12:32
balance. I wanted a fourth one. And then
12:35
Dr. Dakey, the guy I just referred to,
12:37
he came into my office while I was
12:38
wrestling with this new mission
12:40
statement one day and he said, “I’ve got
12:42
your fourth one.” And he said, and he
12:44
said, “It’s the practice of wisdom.”
12:46
Because wisdom is an active application
12:48
of your faith. You practice what you
12:50
preach. It’s it’s integrity, the
12:52
integration of head and heart and fact
12:54
and faith and belief and behavior. And
12:57
the Wesleyan doctrine calls upon us to
13:00
be sanctified, set apart for obedience
13:02
unto the Lord. So it’s the primacy of
13:05
Jesus Christ. Jesus is the son of God.
13:07
The priority of scripture. The Bible is
13:09
the word of God. The pursuit of truth.
13:11
Truth is given by God. It’s not made up
13:13
by you or me. I’m not going to give you
13:15
a diploma in opinions when you graduate.
13:18
I actually want you to learn something
13:20
of what’s true and right and good and
13:22
beautiful. These objective realities of
13:24
life. truth with a capital T. Christ,
13:27
scripture, truth, and then the fourth
13:29
one, wisdom, holiness, obedience unto
13:32
the Lord. That obedience is demanded by
13:34
God. It’s not optional. That became our
13:37
identity. Everywhere I went, I talked
13:40
about the four Ps. Primacy of Christ,
13:42
priority of scripture, pursuit of truth,
13:44
and practice of wisdom. And I’ll tell
13:46
you what, some people may be listening
13:47
right now, and they may be thinking,
13:48
“Well, big deal. That doesn’t sound all
13:50
that unique.” I’ll tell you what. find
13:52
me another Christian college president
13:54
that’s willing to say those things.
13:56
They’re rare. Couldn’t find them. And I
13:59
had donors coming to the table. I had
14:01
Fox and Friends and NBC today. I had
14:04
people coming out of the woodwork to
14:06
talk to this president from a small
14:08
little Christian college in Northeast
14:10
Oklahoma about our uniqueness and our
14:12
boldness and our courage.
Transforming the University
14:14
And that’s how we turned it around.
14:17
Wow. cuz really when you got when you
14:19
took the job, not only was it majorly in
14:22
debt and struggling, it it was pretty it
14:24
was an obscure college and when you left
14:26
it it was fairly prominent and people
14:28
knew Oklahoma Wesleyan like it was a
14:31
known college all around the country. Uh
14:34
how many years or how long did it take
14:37
once you started talking about those
14:38
four Ps to really get the faculty to
14:42
understand it, to get the parents to
14:43
understand it, to get the students to
14:44
understand it because it’s not just
14:46
those are quick and catchy and now
14:49
everyone’s bought in. Like it was still
14:50
going to be a struggle.
Implementing the Four Ps
14:52
Um, you know, I would say by the six to
14:56
10th year it was clicking. It was
14:59
working. We’ll talk about that in a
15:01
second. But it was relatively immediate
15:04
in some ways. I remember um I went to a
15:08
Rotary meeting. I got involved in
15:10
everything. And I think leaders have to
15:12
show interest in something other than
15:15
just their company, their church, their
15:17
college. Because if all you care about
15:18
is your own deal, your own thing, then
15:20
everybody that needs to be supporting
15:22
you and giving you money and buying your
15:24
product, they’re not going to care about
15:25
you if you don’t care about them. So I
15:26
got involved in everything.
15:28
Every organization, every club, I was in
15:30
it. And I was a member of Rotary. And of
15:33
course, as the new university president
15:34
in town, I was asked to speak very
15:36
quickly. It was in my first year, maybe
15:39
my first couple months, I spoke at
15:41
Rotary. And in my corner of the woods
15:44
here, uh, Rotary is a big deal. Frank
15:47
Phillips, the founder of Phillips
15:48
Petroleum, Phillips 66, used to be the
15:51
president of this particular Rotary
15:53
Group, of which I later become became
15:56
president, by the way. Um, I was asked
15:59
to speak and I got up and I thought, you
16:01
know, and and this is what I’m thinking
16:02
privately. Um, I know this is a secular
16:06
group, a secular organization. This is
16:07
corporate. This isn’t church,
16:10
but I’m not going to apologize for who
16:12
we are. Um, why would I do that? So, I
16:15
got up and guess what I talked about in
16:17
Rotary? The primacy of Jesus Christ, the
16:19
priority of scripture, the pursuit of
16:20
truth, the practice of wisdom. We’re
16:22
going to wave the flag and we’re going
16:23
to wave it boldly. And if we win waving
16:25
that flag, guys, we’re going to
16:27
celebrate it. That’s God’s grace. But if
16:29
we lose waving that flag, I do not care.
16:32
we will go down fighting. And I’m giving
16:34
this speech at Rotary. It’s my stump
16:37
speech now. And I’m interrupted in
16:40
Rotary by a bunch of old gay-haired men
16:42
in the back of this large Rotary Club
16:45
saying, and I quote, “Amen. It’s about
16:48
time.” And I thought, “This is great.
16:51
I’m getting affirmation.” Amens. I feel
16:54
like I’m in a sawdust tent revival here.
16:58
and I’m in a corporate Kico Phillips
17:01
world and these guys are interrupting me
17:04
by saying, “Amen. This will work.” Now,
17:08
I wasn’t doing it just for pragmatic
17:09
reasons. I mean, I believe it. I
17:12
believed it. And I think that’s part of
17:13
the sales pitch, too. I believed it, and
17:17
I still do believe it. And when you hear
17:19
me talk about this and you and you
17:22
understand in your heart, mind, and
17:23
soul, this leader is not faking it. he
17:27
believes it. I think all of a sudden it
17:29
becomes a different conversation, a
17:31
different idea, a different product if
17:32
you will, in the mind of the consumer.
Gaining Support and Donations
17:35
Here, here’s another example of of when
17:38
it it moved just from uh oral
17:40
affirmation to dollars. Okay? I’d been
17:44
giving the four Ps speech for months,
17:47
couple years now, and things were
17:49
starting to turn around. The newspaper
17:51
was covering us and radio was covering
17:53
us, and they were saying Oklahoma
17:54
Wesley’s successful now. They’re getting
17:56
affirmation from Bane and US News and
17:58
World Report. The numbers are positive.
18:00
They’re balancing their budget. That was
18:01
the reputation we had at this point in
18:04
time. But we’re still very very small
18:06
and we need money.
18:09
I
18:10
I I received a phone call one day from a
18:13
a a retired couple out in Novada,
18:16
Oklahoma. They said, “We want to meet
18:19
you.” So, they came to my office. They
18:23
had never been on our campus.
18:26
The husband of the couple at that point
18:28
in time was not a Christian.
18:31
That’s changed since.
18:33
Um, they sat down at the table in my
18:37
office and I welcomed them and I don’t
18:40
think they’d mind me mentioning their
18:41
name. It was Charlie and Janice Drake.
18:44
And I remember Charlie sat down across
18:47
the table from me with his arms crossed
18:49
on his chest kind of defiantly and he
18:50
said, “Hey, we’ve been watching you in
18:51
the newspaper lately and we see that
18:53
Oklahoma Wesleyan is doing better.
18:56
You’re somewhat successful now. I want
18:59
to know why.”
19:01
And he stopped and he stared at me and I
19:04
looked over and I put my elbows on my
19:07
top of my table across from him in my
19:09
office and I said, “Mr. Drake. It’s
19:10
because we believe in the primacy of
19:13
Jesus Christ, the priority of scripture,
19:15
the pursuit of truth, and the practice
19:16
of wisdom. Jesus is the son of God. The
19:18
Bible’s the word of God. Truth is given
19:19
by God. It isn’t made up by you or me,
19:22
Mr. Drake. And wisdom, holiness,
19:24
obedience, integrity is demanded by God.
19:26
It is not optional. And Mr. Drake, if I
19:28
win waving that banner, great. God’s
19:31
grace. If I lose, I do not care. I’ll go
19:34
down fighting. And then I pause because
19:36
he’s still staring at me. He hasn’t said
19:38
a word. And I I knew they were there
19:41
because they had money. Somebody had
19:43
flagged me on this.
19:45
And in a point of weakness, I stopped
19:48
and I looked at him and I said, “I’m
19:50
sorry, Mr. Drake. I’m probably on my
19:53
soap box. Forgive me.”
19:56
He broke the silence, leaned over and
19:58
looked me in the eye and said, “Get back
20:01
on it. That’s why we’re here.”
20:04
Okay. They became the largest donors in
20:07
the history of the institution. built us
20:09
a library, two dorms, a new school of
20:12
business, endowed a bunch of stuff, and
20:16
almost anytime and every time I had a
20:18
new project,
20:20
take them out to lunch, never asked them
20:22
for a dime. Really, just shared the
20:24
project and the cost and we’re and
20:26
they’re writing seven figure checks.
Boldness and Clarity
20:28
Wow.
20:30
That
20:32
is because
20:36
God gave me the courage, the boldness. I
20:38
don’t want to take too much credit for
20:39
this, the foolishness, if you will, to
20:41
call a spade a spade and to potentially
20:44
offend a major donor by getting on my
20:46
soap box. And he looked me in the eye
20:48
and he said, “Get back on it. That’s why
20:50
I’m here.” So, um, those are the types
20:53
of things that I think boldness and
20:55
clarity and conviction being a flavor, a
20:58
Ben & Jerry’s, if you will, rather than,
21:00
you know, standard vanilla ice cream. I
21:02
can buy vanilla on any street corner if
21:04
that’s what I want. I can buy it from
21:06
anybody. vanilla ice cream is it’s it’s
21:08
it’s all over the place. But if I want a
21:10
unique and bold and distinct flavor, I
21:12
may have to go to you to buy it. And
21:15
that’s when your product, I think, uh is
21:19
is worth considering because now you’ve
21:21
distinguished yourself as being
21:22
something different than everybody else
21:24
on the block.
Impact of the Four Ps
21:25
Well, yeah, boldness, clarity, and
21:27
conviction were so important and clearly
21:30
that’s how you led. You know, one of the
21:32
things that like those four Ps, you
21:34
being so committed to those led to you
21:37
having so many other opportunities to
21:40
step into the gaps where people weren’t
21:42
willing to step into the gaps. One of
21:44
the things that you became known for and
21:46
that also put the school on the map is
21:48
you talking about it not being a daycare
21:50
and being a university. Talk about that
21:52
whole experience for those that haven’t
21:54
heard about that. Well, and that I I
21:58
think it was important we cover what we
22:00
already have as the platform for this.
Not a Daycare Essay
22:03
Um, okay. So, we had developed a
22:06
reputation where uh Piper’s going to
22:09
call a spade a spade. He’s not going to
22:11
apologize for what this university is
22:13
and what it’s about. Christian,
22:16
absolutely. That’s who they are. If you
22:19
like it, go there. If you don’t, Viper’s
22:21
not going to change it for you. Um, so
22:25
we’ve got that reputation now, six,
22:26
seven, 10 years into it. Actually, it
22:29
was more than that because it was 2015
22:32
and the snowflake rebellion was starting
22:34
to hit the news. you know, students
22:36
complaining, whining about an a speaker
22:39
that they didn’t like and they want that
22:40
speaker expelled from campus, whether
22:42
it’s Dennis Prager or Ben Shapiro or
22:45
fill in the blank or a liberal professor
22:48
at Evergreen State up in Oregon says
22:50
something students don’t like and he’s
22:52
in danger of losing his job just because
22:54
the students think he triggered them.
22:57
Um, and then you had the situation at
22:59
the University of Missouri, and I think
23:01
that was u, I think somebody drove
23:03
through campus, a pickup through campus,
23:05
and they had a flag, I can’t remember
23:07
what it was, a flag that made the
23:10
students angry and upset. So, they’re
23:12
rebelling. They want the faculty, they
23:14
want the provost and the president fired
23:16
and all this kind of nonsense. And
23:18
anyway, anyway, in the middle of all
23:20
that, I thought, well, Oklahoma Wesley
23:22
isn’t going to suff suffer any of this
23:24
foolishness.
Student Complaint Incident
23:26
I was uh working at home one morning on
23:28
a required chapel day. I didn’t go to
23:30
chapel. I was playing hookie. I had
23:31
something else to do. So I’m sitting in
23:33
my living room doing some work which is
23:34
right contiguous to the chap chapel on
23:36
our campus. I get a phone call after
23:39
chapel from the vice president for
23:40
student development who was the speaker
23:41
that day and I knew he was. I felt a
23:43
little guilty for not going to listen to
23:45
his talk. And he asked me, he said, “Uh,
23:48
Dr. Piper, were you in chapel today?”
23:50
And I said, “No, Kyle, I’m sorry. I
23:51
couldn’t make it.” He said, “No, no, no.
23:53
I’m not trying to make you I’m not
23:54
trying to shame you for not coming to
23:56
hear me give the chapel talk, but I
23:58
wanted to warn you or at least give you
23:59
a heads up that one of our students
24:01
played the victimization card after my
24:04
talk. He came up to me and he pointed
Confrontation and Compassion
24:08
You made me feel uncomfortable. You singled
Offensive Sermon Topic
24:10
me out and you singled my friends, my
Love Chapter Controversy
24:13
peers out in your talk.” And I responded
Requesting the Speech
24:16
to Kyle and I said, “Well, what in the
Reading the Homily
24:18
world? What was your talk on that was so
Examining for Offense
24:21
offensive to this kid?” and he said,
Surprised by Reaction
24:22
“You won’t believe this one. It’s 1
Love Chapter Offense
24:25
Corinthians 13.” Now, I’m assuming
Love Chapter Explanation
24:28
everybody listening right now knows
Wedding Readings
24:29
this. 1 Corinthians 13 is the
Questioning the Offense
24:31
quintessential love chapter of the
Requesting Speech Copy
24:32
Bible. Love is patient. Love is kind. If
Analyzing the Speech
24:36
you didn’t have it read at your wedding,
Speech Content
24:37
you probably had it heard it read at a
Searching for Humor
24:39
hundred others. I’m thinking first
Finding No Humor
24:42
Corinthians. What in the world is this
Incredulous Reaction
24:44
kid offended by? So, I said to Kyle, the
Requesting Speech
24:45
speaker, I said, “Send me a copy of your
Reading the Homily
24:47
speech. I want to read it.” because I
Speech Analysis
24:49
knew that Kyle always it’s a it’s a
Homily Details
24:52
brief 15inute homaly when he speaks and
Speech Style
24:55
he uses a script he uses notes he reads
Ad-Libbing
24:58
from them he doesn’t add lib like I am
Reading the Homily
25:00
right now so I got his speech his homaly
Searching for Offense
25:04
and I read it front to back I thought is
Political Joke Search
25:07
there some political joke in here did he
Finding No Sarcasm
25:09
try some sarcasm as an intro and it
No Political Humor
25:11
didn’t go well what in the world
Incredulous Reaction
25:12
happened nothing there’s no political
Offended by Love
25:15
humor there’s no sarcasm this is 1
University Reaction
25:17
Corinthians 13 and a kid is ticked off,
Incredulous Reaction
25:20
I I am incredulous. I’m thinking maybe
University Comparison
25:24
at the University of Missouri or
University Reaction
25:26
whatever UCLA or Boston University or
University Comparison
25:29
Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale,
University Reaction
25:31
maybe this would happen, but not at my
Writing the Op-Ed
25:33
school. So, I’m
Writing the Opinion Piece
25:36
I’m fussing a bit. And at that time, I
Writing the Open Letter
25:38
had been charged to write a weekly
Opinion Piece Platform
25:40
opinion piece for the local newspaper.
Writing the Open Letter
25:42
They allowed me to write on anything I
Open Letter Content
25:44
wanted. Um, and I did so weekly. So, I
Writing the Open Letter
25:48
thought this week I’m going to use it as
Open Letter Content
25:49
a platform. I’m going to write an open
Addressing the Student
25:51
letter to my students and allow the
Community Involvement
25:54
entire community to listen in if they
Open Letter Content
25:56
want. So, essentially, I wrote a letter.
Open Letter Content
25:59
It served as an opinion piece in the
Open Letter Message
26:01
paper and I basically said, “Young man,
Conscience and Discomfort
26:03
that feeling of discomfort you had when
Open Letter Message
26:06
you heard that sermon on 1 Corinthians
Conscience and Discomfort
26:08
13, it’s called your conscience and you
Open Letter Message
26:11
might want to attend to it.” And then I
Open Letter Content
26:13
went on and in 800 words or thereabout I
Purpose of Sermons
26:16
said a good sermon is supposed to make
Confession Over Comfort
26:17
you feel guilty. That’s the point. Our
Purpose of Sermons
26:20
goal is your confession, not your
Confrontation Over Comfort
26:21
comfort. If you want us to cuddle you
Truth Over Feelings
26:23
rather than to confront you, then go
Confrontation Over Comfort
26:25
someplace else because we care about
Truth Over Feelings
26:27
truth. We don’t care about your
Ranting in the Op-Ed
26:29
feelings.
University vs. Daycare
26:31
So I’m I’m ranting in this oped and I
University vs. Daycare
26:34
concluded after I fussed for 800 words
University vs. Daycare
26:37
and I said, “Mine land. This is a
University vs. Daycare
26:39
university. It’s not a daycare. grow up.
Publishing the Op-Ed
26:42
So I I I I send this off to the
Publishing the Op-Ed
26:45
newspaper to get it published and they
Op-Ed Publication
26:48
did. And usually in the Bartlesville
Op-Ed Reaction
26:50
Examiner Enterprise, five people read it
Op-Ed Reaction
26:52
and three people care. But in this
Op-Ed Goes Viral
26:54
particular case, somebody got a hold of
Op-Ed Goes Viral
26:58
this, sent the op-ed to Glenn Beck.
Op-Ed Goes Viral
27:00
Glenn Beck posts it and
Media Coverage
27:03
50,000, 60,000, 70,000 people are
Media Coverage
27:06
chiming in on Glenn Beck. and then Fox
Media Coverage
27:08
and Friends and Fox News and NBC Today
Media Coverage
27:11
and the list O’Reilly um everybody gets
Global Media Attention
27:15
a hold of this newspapers in Oxford,
Global Media Attention
27:17
England were covering the story about
Global Media Attention
27:19
the college president in Northeast
Global Media Attention
27:20
Oklahoma who called his students out and
Moral of the Story
27:22
told them this is a university. It’s not
Moral of the Story
27:24
a daycare. So, the moral of the story I
Go Big or Go Home
27:28
uh in addition to it being a lot of fun,
Go Big or Go Home
27:31
and it was it was a lot of fun, is um go
Go Big or Go Home
27:36
big or go home. I called a spade a
Father’s Wisdom
27:38
spade. My dad, who didn’t even have a
Father’s Wisdom
27:40
high school degree, could have said the
Father’s Wisdom
27:42
exact I probably did say the exact same
Father’s Wisdom
27:44
thing to me. Stop it. Grow up. This
Father’s Wisdom
27:49
isn’t a daycare. Take responsibility for
Father’s Wisdom
27:52
your life and stop complaining.
Confrontation is Good
27:54
Confrontation is good. A little
Confrontation is Good
27:56
cognitive dissonance, iron sharpening
Confrontation is Good
27:59
iron, will result in you being an adult,
Confrontation is Good
28:01
a responsible one. And if you forego all
Confrontation is Good
28:04
of those tensions in life, you’re going
Confrontation is Good
28:06
to be nothing but an infanalized
Confrontation is Good
28:07
adolescent at 65 years of age.
Father’s Wisdom
28:10
So that could have been said by my dad.
Father’s Wisdom
28:12
I basically said the same thing. Now,
Academy Reaction
28:14
here’s the interesting thing.
Academy Reaction
28:17
Other college presidents ran for cover.
Academy Reaction
28:20
Almost no one in the academy in the ivy
Academy Reaction
28:23
ivory tower supported me. Everyone else
Public Support
28:26
did. Over 98 99% of the comments on
Public Support
28:30
several million hits on that story were
Public Support
28:33
positive. Go get them. Thank you for
Public Support
28:35
saying it. It needed to be said. I got a
Letter from a Scholar
28:37
letter from a Fulbright scholar in uh a
Letter from a Scholar
28:40
university in Florida who sent me just a
Letter from a Scholar
28:43
short three or four sentence note and he
Letter from a Scholar
28:46
said, “Hey, I read your column. As an
Letter from a Scholar
28:49
atheist, I disagree with your politics
Letter from a Scholar
28:51
and your religion, but on this matter,
Letter from a Scholar
28:55
thank you for saying it. Carry on. Good
Letter from a Scholar
28:57
for you. Kudos, Joe Smith, Fulbright
Media Attention
29:00
scholar, University of XYZ, Florida.” So
Media Attention
29:03
I had everybody from Bill Maher and um
Media Attention
29:06
NBC today cited that story I just shared
Top Story of 2015
29:09
with you as one of the top 10 stories of
Top Story of 2015
29:11
2015 at the end of the year. One of the
Top Story of 2015
29:14
top 10. So my point is this that
Mission Clarity
29:18
combined with our bold clarity on our
Mission Clarity
29:21
mission distinguished us as an as an
Mission Clarity
29:24
institution. We mean it. An
Mission Clarity
29:25
organization, a corporation, a company,
Mission Clarity
29:27
a church if you will. We mean it. we’re
Mission Clarity
29:29
not going to compromise for it for for
Mission Clarity
29:32
believing these things and I students
Mission Clarity
29:35
came in, donors came in, numbers
Mission Clarity
29:38
followed that clarity and that
Mission Clarity
29:40
conviction.
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:41
Yeah, it’s such a crazy story and we
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:45
talk a lot about servant leadership
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:46
right on the podcast and one of the
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:48
things that I’m curious to hear your
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:49
take on is how do you balance and I’ve
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:52
heard you I’ve heard you talk about this
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:54
well. Uh, how do you balance that idea
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:56
of creating a place for people to come
Balancing Truth and Welcome
29:59
and feel welcomed, but also creating a
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:01
place where there is some some really
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:03
hard truths being talked about and some
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:06
some uh some uncomfortableness for
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:09
people, right? I’ve heard you talk about
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:11
safe spaces and other things and and h
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:14
how do you view leadership and how do
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:16
you lead when you see a wrong and you
Balancing Truth and Welcome
30:20
don’t know if it’s your place to call it
Discipline and Love
30:22
out or not?
Discipline and Love
30:24
Well, I think there’s a false dichotomy
Discipline and Love
30:26
here that somehow discipline and love
Discipline and Love
30:30
are antithetical to one another. They’re
Discipline and Love
30:31
opposites. And I disagree with that. In
Discipline and Love
30:33
fact, biblically, we know that quote
Discipline and Love
30:35
unquote the Lord disciplines those he
Discipline and Love
30:37
loves. So, love and discipline go hand
Discipline and Love
30:40
in hand. They’re part of the same thing,
Discipline and Love
30:42
two sides of the same coin. They’re not
Discipline and Love
30:44
antithetical. They’re not opposites. But
Discipline and Love
30:46
I think our culture today sometimes
Discipline and Love
30:49
assumes differently that confrontation
Discipline and Love
30:52
is anothetical to compassion and that
Discipline and Love
30:55
discipline is the opposite of love. And
Discipline and Love
30:57
I disagree with that. I just think
Discipline and Love
30:58
that’s that’s bad leadership. I think
Discipline and Love
31:00
that’s bad philosophy theology. I think
Discipline and Love
31:03
it’s bad parenting. A parent that does
Discipline and Love
31:05
not discipline his child is not showing
Discipline and Love
31:07
compassion and care uh to his child.
Discipline and Love
31:10
He’s actually enabling that little boy
Discipline and Love
31:12
or little girl to do some very stupid
Discipline and Love
31:14
things that could become bad habits. in
Discipline and Love
31:16
life and destroy them. If a toddler runs
Discipline and Love
31:19
out into the middle of the road, you
Discipline and Love
31:20
don’t you don’t coddle them. You
Discipline and Love
31:22
confront them. You scold them.
Discipline and Love
31:26
Sorry. You might give them a spanking
Discipline and Love
31:28
because you know that if they don’t
Discipline and Love
31:30
learn to stay out of the road, they’re
Discipline and Love
31:31
going to end up killing themselves. So
Discipline and Love
31:34
discipline and love are not
Discipline and Love
31:35
antithetical. They’re not opposites. And
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:37
in servant leadership, because of the
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:39
word servant being interpreted in our
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:42
day and time as being u kind of a
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:45
passive uh a affir affirming tolerant
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:49
position in life. That servant
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:53
leadership implies tolerance implies
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:55
affirmation. And tolerance and
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
31:57
affirmation are not necessarily sinful.
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:00
But I
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:03
tolerance and affirmation can be very
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:05
harmful. Um God does not tolerate your
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:09
sin. He does not tolerate mine. God does
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:11
not affirm me for doing bad things. Nor
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:14
should he. So tolerance and affirmation
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:17
and compassion, if we falsely equate all
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:21
of those things with being a servant, I
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:24
think I think ends up being
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:27
um more harmful than good in terms of
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:29
quality leadership. So Christ is the
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:33
ultimate servant, right? But Christ also
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:35
confronts us. I mean, he was very clear
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:38
in confronting those people that
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:40
disagreed, that were wrong to the point
Servant Leadership Misconceptions
32:44
in um
Misinterpreted Scripture
32:47
is it Matthew 5, I I believe where he
Misinterpreted Scripture
32:52
judge not lest he be judged. I think
Misinterpreted Scripture
32:53
it’s one of the most overused passages
Misinterpreted Scripture
32:55
of scripture or uh not overused. I don’t
Misinterpreted Scripture
32:59
know if you can overuse scripture, but I
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:01
think it’s the mo most misinterpreted
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:03
and misused passage of scripture of our
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:06
day. Because when we’re told by Jesus to
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:08
judge, not lest he be judged, he’s not
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:10
telling us not to judge. He’s telling us
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:12
how to judge. Because if you read the
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:13
next couple sentences, if you read the
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:15
rest of the paragraph, he goes on to
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:17
show us how to judge the Pharisees for
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:19
their hypocrisy. He calls them
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:20
whitewashed tombs. He calls them wolves
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:24
in sheep’s clothing. So clearly he’s
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:26
pointing out a judgment against
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:28
hypocrisy against people who claim to be
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:31
one thing and indeed are not what they
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:33
claim to be. So tolerating that and
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:35
affirming that, no, that’s not part part
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:37
of Christ’s model. So I think the Lord
Misinterpreted Scripture
33:40
disciplines those he loves. And I think
Confrontation in Leadership
33:42
good servant leaders understand that
Confrontation in Leadership
33:45
confrontation is perhaps the most caring
Confrontation in Leadership
33:47
thing you can do if done properly, if
Confrontation in Leadership
33:50
done for the good of the individual, for
Confrontation in Leadership
33:52
the good of your child, for the good of
Confrontation in Leadership
33:53
your teammate, for the good of those
Confrontation in Leadership
33:55
that you’re coaching, if you’re in
Confrontation in Leadership
33:58
athletics. Um, the discipline that comes
Confrontation in Leadership
34:01
through that confr confrontation and
Confrontation in Leadership
34:03
that servant leadership is something
Confrontation in Leadership
34:05
that will benefit the student in the
Confrontation in Leadership
34:07
long run. Uh, I’ll I’ll I’ll I’ll say
Confrontation in Leadership
34:10
this and let you uh respond. Um, any
Confrontation in Leadership
34:14
athlete should understand what I just
Confrontation in Leadership
34:16
said. Any musician should understand
Confrontation in Leadership
34:18
what I just said because if you don’t
Confrontation in Leadership
34:22
learn the rules of your sport, if you
Confrontation in Leadership
34:25
don’t attend to what the coach says, if
Confrontation in Leadership
34:27
you don’t go to practice, if you don’t
Confrontation in Leadership
34:28
discipline yourself to obey him and do
Confrontation in Leadership
34:30
what he tells you to do, odds are you’re
Confrontation in Leadership
34:32
never going to get off the bench. the
Confrontation in Leadership
34:35
coach will not show you the grace that
Confrontation in Leadership
34:37
you don’t deserve, but that maybe he
Confrontation in Leadership
34:40
will give you to give you a chance to
Confrontation in Leadership
34:43
get on the floor and play. But if you do
Confrontation in Leadership
34:45
go to practice, pay attention to the
Confrontation in Leadership
34:46
coach, learn the plays, discipline your
Confrontation in Leadership
34:48
body,
Confrontation in Leadership
34:50
be selfless in deference to him and your
Confrontation in Leadership
34:54
fellow teammates. You might get on the
Confrontation in Leadership
34:56
floor and you might actually become an
Confrontation in Leadership
34:58
athlete someday. So the precursor to
Confrontation in Leadership
35:02
being an athlete is the discipline that
Confrontation in Leadership
35:04
comes through confrontation and
Confrontation in Leadership
35:06
coaching. And the best coach, servant,
Confrontation in Leadership
35:10
leader to his athletes is one that
Confrontation in Leadership
35:13
employs and exercises that confrontation
Confrontation in Leadership
35:15
in a judicious and and um in a judicious
Confrontation in Leadership
35:19
fashion that actually results in the
Confrontation in Leadership
35:20
maturation, the maturity of his
Confrontation in Leadership
35:22
athletes. Same thing with music. If you
Confrontation in Leadership
35:25
don’t learn the rules of music, rhyme,
Confrontation in Leadership
35:27
rhythm, cadence, etc. If you don’t
Confrontation in Leadership
35:29
discipline yourself to do what your
Confrontation in Leadership
35:31
music teacher tells you to do, you’ll
Confrontation in Leadership
35:32
never perform a conerto. It’s just going
Confrontation in Leadership
35:34
to be chaos and you’re not a real
Confrontation in Leadership
35:35
musician. There are a lot of people out
Confrontation in Leadership
35:37
there who think they’re good athletes,
Confrontation in Leadership
35:40
um, think they’re good musicians, but
Confrontation in Leadership
35:41
all they do is sit in their lazy boy
Confrontation in Leadership
35:42
chair on Sunday afternoon with a remote
Confrontation in Leadership
35:44
control and criticize the people that
Confrontation in Leadership
35:45
actually are doing it. It’s those that
Confrontation in Leadership
35:48
understand that discipline
Confrontation in Leadership
35:52
comes brings with it the ability to
Confrontation in Leadership
35:54
perform, the ability to actually become
Confrontation in Leadership
35:57
the thing you dream of being. And that
Confrontation in Leadership
35:59
the coach who yelled at you, who scolded
Confrontation in Leadership
36:02
you, who disciplined you when you didn’t
Confrontation in Leadership
36:03
do what you were supposed to do, you’re
Confrontation in Leadership
36:05
thankful for him because he served you
Confrontation in Leadership
36:09
better than anybody else did because he
Confrontation in Leadership
36:11
cared enough to confront. I hope that
Confrontation in Leadership
36:13
makes sense.
Insight and Wisdom
36:14
Yeah, that’s so good. and and it takes
Insight and Wisdom
36:17
that insight and that internal wisdom
Insight and Wisdom
36:20
and just like that radar to understand
Insight and Wisdom
36:22
what should I do in each situation. You
Insight and Wisdom
36:24
know, something else that I’m curious
Insight and Wisdom
36:26
about, you left Oklahoma Wesleyan maybe
Insight and Wisdom
36:31
sooner than people thought you would
Insight and Wisdom
36:33
leave. Uh, and you transitioned a school
Insight and Wisdom
36:37
much better than when you when you took
Insight and Wisdom
36:40
it on. talk about how you went through
Insight and Wisdom
36:43
that decision-making process and how it
Insight and Wisdom
36:45
applies to other people.
Leadership Transition
36:46
Well, um, some people listening will
Leadership Transition
36:49
remember the, uh, New York Times
Leadership Transition
36:51
bestseller book, Good to Great. I think
Leadership Transition
36:53
it was late 1980s maybe or somewhere in
Leadership Transition
36:56
the 90s maybe when it was written and I
Leadership Transition
36:58
cannot remember the author of it right
Leadership Transition
37:00
now, but it was a it was a the seinal
Leadership Transition
37:02
leadership book. What’s that?
Leadership Transition
37:04
Jim Collins. Right.
Leadership Transition
37:05
There you go.
Leadership Transition
37:05
Yeah.
Leadership Transition
37:06
One of the seinal leadership books of
Leadership Transition
37:08
its day. And of course, I was reading
Leadership Transition
37:10
that as I was going through my PhD
Leadership Transition
37:12
program, and it was still hot when I
Leadership Transition
37:14
became a young college president. And
Leadership Transition
37:17
one of the things I’ll never forget
Leadership Transition
37:18
about Collins’s uh description of level,
Leadership Transition
37:22
he had five levels of leadership. Level
Leadership Transition
37:24
four was good. Level five was great. And
Leadership Transition
37:27
of all these companies and these leaders
Leadership Transition
37:29
from Liia Akoka and others, uh he he
Leadership Transition
37:32
found very few level five leaders. In
Leadership Transition
37:35
fact, Liakoko of Chrysler was not a
Leadership Transition
37:37
level five leader in Collins’s view. He
Leadership Transition
37:39
only achieved level four. And why?
Leadership Transition
37:42
Because he didn’t manage transition
Leadership Transition
37:44
well. Aayakoko when he was done with
Leadership Transition
37:47
Chrysler and rescuing it um uh did not
Leadership Transition
37:52
set the table for his successor and
Leadership Transition
37:54
Chrysler rather than becoming bigger and
Leadership Transition
37:56
better after left floundered and became
Leadership Transition
37:59
sold and melded into other companies.
Leadership Transition
38:02
I always remembered that and I thought,
Leadership Transition
38:04
you know, I I want to leave my
Leadership Transition
38:08
presidency when they want more of me
Leadership Transition
38:10
rather than less. I want to leave while
Leadership Transition
38:12
I’m running strong and I’m handing the
Leadership Transition
38:15
baton in full stride rather than waiting
Leadership Transition
38:17
to
Leadership Transition
38:19
sometime when I’m stumbling. So, I was
Leadership Transition
38:24
59 years old and uh had another six-year
Leadership Transition
38:27
contract offered to me and I accepted
Leadership Transition
38:28
it. But I said to my chairman of the
Leadership Transition
38:30
board at the time, I said, “I likely
Leadership Transition
38:32
will not fulfill the entire six years,
Leadership Transition
38:34
what I’ll do is I’ll probably announce
Leadership Transition
38:37
my resignation
Leadership Transition
38:39
uh and give you a couple years to go
Leadership Transition
38:40
through a very thorough search. I think
Leadership Transition
38:43
now’s the time.” So, at 58, 59, I
Leadership Transition
38:46
retired, announced my retirement, and
Leadership Transition
38:49
gave them as much time as they wanted to
Leadership Transition
38:51
do a search to find somebody else. And
Leadership Transition
38:52
again, my goal all along was I’ll repeat
Leadership Transition
38:56
myself to leave when I’m when they want
Leadership Transition
38:59
more of me rather than less. Leave when
Leadership Transition
39:02
the institution is strong rather than
Leadership Transition
39:03
weak. Lead leave while I’m running
Leadership Transition
39:06
really fast and I’m winning the race
Leadership Transition
39:08
rather than when I’m stumbling. So that
Leadership Transition
39:10
when my successor gets the baton, he’ll
Leadership Transition
39:12
inherit a blessing rather than a curse.
Leadership Transition
39:15
And I pray and I believe that indeed we
Leadership Transition
39:17
accomplish that. So I I think one of the
Leadership Transition
39:20
keys to leadership is not just leading
Leadership Transition
39:22
in the present, but leading in the
Leadership Transition
39:23
future when you’re gone. And um I
Leadership Transition
39:27
another
Leadership Transition
39:30
thing I think is very important is do
Leadership Transition
39:31
your best as a leader to force your
Leadership Transition
39:36
board of trustees, your your your fellow
Leadership Transition
39:38
leaders to codify the mission statement
Leadership Transition
39:41
so that it cannot be changed. Because
Leadership Transition
39:44
the institution that you’re handing to
Leadership Transition
39:46
your successor will only continue to be
Leadership Transition
39:49
that institution if there’s a mission
Leadership Transition
39:51
statement that is permanent and
Leadership Transition
39:54
enduring. If if somebody comes in and
Leadership Transition
39:57
changes everything all of the sudden,
Leadership Transition
39:58
then it’s not the same school anymore.
Leadership Transition
40:00
It’s not the same institution. It’s not
Leadership Transition
40:01
the same organization. So I work very
Leadership Transition
40:04
hard to make sure that those four
Leadership Transition
40:06
pillars which are still part of the
Leadership Transition
40:08
mission statement to this day primacy of
Leadership Transition
40:10
Christ priority of scripture pursuit of
Leadership Transition
40:11
truth practice of wisdom are the guiding
Leadership Transition
40:14
uh it’s the foundation the four
Leadership Transition
40:16
cornerstones of the institution and they
Leadership Transition
40:18
can’t be torn down there lots of
Leadership Transition
40:20
different programs lot lots of different
Leadership Transition
40:22
things you can do to build upon that
Leadership Transition
40:24
foundation but you can’t tear the
Leadership Transition
40:26
foundation down it is what it is
Impacting Young Leaders
40:29
I love that you know you had a unique
Impacting Young Leaders
40:31
opportunity to impact thousands of young
Impacting Young Leaders
40:34
leaders in your tenure there and and
Impacting Young Leaders
40:37
even after you’ve been impacting a lot
Impacting Young Leaders
40:38
of young leaders. I know you try to
Impacting Young Leaders
40:40
teach people grit and you try to teach
Impacting Young Leaders
40:42
them character and all these things, but
Impacting Young Leaders
40:44
what’s the thing that you’re like, gosh,
Impacting Young Leaders
40:46
if I could only tell young leaders
Impacting Young Leaders
40:48
listening to this podcast one thing and
Impacting Young Leaders
40:50
have them focus in on it, what would you
Impacting Young Leaders
40:52
encourage them with?
Value of Integrity
40:56
Um, integrity.
Value of Integrity
40:58
Practice what you preach. I think our
Value of Integrity
41:01
culture, our world is like a dry sponge.
Value of Integrity
41:04
It’s just begging for somebody to
Value of Integrity
41:05
provide water so it can soak it up. And
Value of Integrity
41:08
I think the thing that our world
Value of Integrity
41:10
desperately thirsts for is integrity.
Value of Integrity
41:14
Integrating. Integrity. Integrating head
Value of Integrity
41:17
and heart, fact and faith, belief and
Value of Integrity
41:18
behavior. Be a man. Be a woman of
Value of Integrity
41:21
integrity
Value of Integrity
41:22
because that matters. People may
Value of Integrity
41:25
criticize you for it. Do you think I got
Value of Integrity
41:27
criticized for my Christianity at times?
Value of Integrity
41:29
Absolutely. But the fact that I didn’t
Value of Integrity
41:32
care, the fact that I was not going to
Value of Integrity
41:35
change. You can criticize me and I I
Value of Integrity
41:38
welcome a good debate. You want to argue
Value of Integrity
41:39
about it, great. You want to debate it,
Value of Integrity
41:42
great. But the fact that I’m going on
Value of Integrity
41:44
Adam Corolla’s show and who’s a atheist
Value of Integrity
41:48
and I’m going on um
Value of Integrity
41:52
um Dave Rubin’s show and Dave Rubin is a
Value of Integrity
41:56
married uh homosexual. I disagree with
Value of Integrity
41:59
Dave Rubin and I disagree with Adam
Value of Integrity
42:01
Corolla, but I’m going on their show and
Value of Integrity
42:03
Adam Corolla concluded after I was on
Value of Integrity
42:05
his show for a half hour. He says,
Value of Integrity
42:07
“Thank you, Dr. Piper. What the world
Value of Integrity
42:08
needs today is more of this wisdom.”
Value of Integrity
42:10
That’s a direct quote from Adam Corolla.
Value of Integrity
42:12
And then Dave Rubin tweets while I’m
Value of Integrity
42:14
driving from his studios back to LAX to
Value of Integrity
42:16
fly back to Oklahoma. I’m in the cab.
Value of Integrity
42:18
Dave Rubin tweets after I was on his
Value of Integrity
42:20
show for an hour and he says, and this
Value of Integrity
42:22
is a quote, “If more guys said what this
Value of Integrity
42:24
guy just said, we’d be a freer, braver,
Value of Integrity
42:26
and wiser nation.” Close quote.
Value of Integrity
42:29
Why? I think it’s integrity. They Dave
Value of Integrity
42:31
Rubin knows I disagree with his sexual
Value of Integrity
42:33
choices. I He did his research. He He
Value of Integrity
42:36
knew who I was. I mean, we talked about
Value of Integrity
42:38
Christ, scripture, truth, wisdom for an
Value of Integrity
42:40
hour on his show. I talked about CS
Value of Integrity
42:43
Lewis saying that you have to have a
Value of Integrity
42:44
measuring rod outside of those things
Value of Integrity
42:45
being measured or you can do no
Value of Integrity
42:47
measuring, Mr. Rubin. And that measuring
Value of Integrity
42:49
rod is primacy of Christ, priority of
Value of Integrity
42:51
scripture, pursuit of truth, and the
Value of Integrity
42:52
practice of wisdom. I said that on Dave
Value of Integrity
42:54
Rubin show. I said the exact same thing
Value of Integrity
42:56
on Adam Corola’s show. It’s the
Value of Integrity
42:58
integrity of not being willing to back
Value of Integrity
43:02
down because you mean it, you believe
Value of Integrity
43:04
it. you’re not going to change it just
Value of Integrity
43:05
because you run into a little bit of
Value of Integrity
43:08
headwinds. I think that matters. So, I
Value of Integrity
43:10
would tell that story and then I would
Value of Integrity
43:12
tell this very simple I give that’s the
Value of Integrity
43:14
story in terms of what I’d want all of
Value of Integrity
43:16
my students, all my kids, everybody to
Value of Integrity
43:18
know, every leader to know if you want
Value of Integrity
43:21
people to pay attention to you, your
Value of Integrity
43:22
company, your church, your college, and
Value of Integrity
43:24
what you’re doing. Integrity. The other
Value of Integrity
43:26
thing is a lesson my truck driver gave
Value of Integrity
43:29
me my first job when I was oh probably
Value of Integrity
43:34
16 17 years old just getting ready to
Value of Integrity
43:38
graduate from high school. So I was 17.
Value of Integrity
43:40
Got a job at a local factory
Value of Integrity
43:43
a tool and die shop. Again my dad didn’t
Value of Integrity
43:46
have a high school diploma. He was a
Value of Integrity
43:48
truck driver. Wasn’t stupid but he
Value of Integrity
43:50
didn’t have a formal education. I get my
Value of Integrity
43:53
first job and it’s a good paying job.
Value of Integrity
43:54
It’s a good tool and die shop, good
Value of Integrity
43:56
factory. He pulls me aside before I I go
Value of Integrity
43:59
to work my first night, third shift, he
Value of Integrity
44:01
says, “Hey, after you’re done doing what
Value of Integrity
44:04
they tell you to do, go find a broom and
Value of Integrity
44:07
start sweeping.”
Value of Integrity
44:10
I’ll never forget that. So, integrity.
Value of Integrity
44:13
Be who you claim to be. Don’t compromise
Value of Integrity
44:16
it. And always look for a broom. Always
Value of Integrity
44:19
look for a broom to start sweeping.
Value of Integrity
44:21
Don’t stand around and wait to be told
Value of Integrity
44:24
what to do. You’ve got a brain. You’ve
Value of Integrity
44:27
got ambition. You’ve got passion.
Value of Integrity
44:30
Pick up a broom and just start sweeping.
Value of Integrity
44:33
And people people will see you and
Value of Integrity
44:37
they’ll appreciate you and they’ll know
Value of Integrity
44:40
that you’re the guy that they should
Value of Integrity
44:42
start empowering because you’re the guy
Value of Integrity
44:44
that will lead. You’re the first one
Value of Integrity
44:46
that found the broom while everybody
Value of Integrity
44:48
else was standing around.
Rapidfire Questions
44:50
That’s so powerful. Uh, ever, I want to
Rapidfire Questions
44:53
finish with 10 rapidfire questions,
Rapidfire Questions
44:55
okay?
Rapidfire Questions
44:56
And you just say the first word that
Rapidfire Questions
44:57
comes to mind, no wrong answer.
Servant Leadership Figure
45:00
Who’s the first person you think of when
Servant Leadership Figure
45:01
I say servant leadership?
Servant Leadership Figure
45:06
I I hate to sound cliche, but obviously
Servant Leadership Figure
45:08
Christ.
Descriptive Words
45:09
All right. Five words that most describe
Descriptive Words
45:11
you.
Descriptive Words
45:15
Uh
Descriptive Words
45:20
uh the body of Christ has many uh parts.
Descriptive Words
45:23
Uh the hand cannot say to the eye, “I
Descriptive Words
45:26
have no need of you.” I’m not sure what
Descriptive Words
45:28
part of the body I am. Maybe I’m the
Descriptive Words
45:30
elbow. I don’t know.
Favorite Author
45:32
All right. What’s your favorite book or
Favorite Author
45:34
who’s your favorite author?
Favorite Author
45:36
CS Lewis. Uh favorite author. Um books
Favorite Author
45:40
would be Mere Christianity, Great
Favorite Author
45:42
Divorce I think is just a phenomenal
Favorite Author
45:44
book of CS Lewis. Um The Seeing Eye, the
Favorite Author
45:49
list goes on and on. Great divorce,
Favorite Author
45:50
abolition of man, Mere Christianity, CS
Favorite Author
45:52
Lewis.
Favorite Food
45:53
Favorite food?
Favorite Food
45:56
Oh, Oklahoma. So, a good ribeye steak.
Favorite Food
46:00
Um and loaded baked potatoes.
Favorite Activity
46:05
All right. Favorite thing to do in your
Favorite Activity
46:06
free time? Oh, I I enjoy my ranch life
Favorite Activity
46:10
right now. I throw good money after bad
Favorite Activity
46:12
at my horses.
Surprising Fact
46:14
What’s a surprising fact about you?
Surprising Fact
46:18
Um,
Surprising Fact
46:20
some people are surprised that I’m a
Surprising Fact
46:22
blueco collar kid and um the ivory tower
Surprising Fact
46:26
was the furthest thing um away from me
Surprising Fact
46:30
in my early life. So, I’m not born and
Surprising Fact
46:32
bred white collar academia. I wasn’t uh
Surprising Fact
46:36
I I wasn’t raised and weaned in the
Surprising Fact
46:39
ivory tower. It’s anothetical to my
Surprising Fact
46:42
background.
Favorite School Subject
46:44
What was your favorite school subject?
Favorite School Subject
46:47
Well, believe it or not, I I started as
Favorite School Subject
46:49
an art major. A short period of time and
Favorite School Subject
46:52
then um
Favorite School Subject
46:54
I didn’t know what else to major in. So,
Favorite School Subject
46:56
uh I I found psychology to be
Favorite School Subject
46:59
interesting. So, I majored in psychology
Favorite School Subject
47:00
and found out quickly after graduating
Favorite School Subject
47:02
in 1982 when unemployment was 16% in the
Favorite School Subject
47:06
county in which I lived that having a
Favorite School Subject
47:09
bachelor of arts degree in psychology
Favorite School Subject
47:10
was not the wisest choice for career
Favorite School Subject
47:13
planning. So, anyway,
Teaching Preference
47:16
if you could go back and teach any
Teaching Preference
47:17
subject, what would it be?
Teaching Preference
47:19
Probably leadership.
Teaching Preference
47:21
Yeah.
Teaching Preference
47:21
Or organizational health leadership,
Teaching Preference
47:24
transitional leadership, crisis
Teaching Preference
47:26
leadership. I love um I love talking and
Teaching Preference
47:29
engaging with people on these issues.
Additional Talks
47:33
Well, and and to pause on the 10
Additional Talks
47:35
questions, something we’ll throw in the
Additional Talks
47:36
notes, you’re starting to do more and
Additional Talks
47:38
more of that talking. So, we’re going to
Additional Talks
47:39
throw a link to where people can
Additional Talks
47:40
actually go connect with you and and
Additional Talks
47:43
maybe invite you out to do different
Additional Talks
47:44
talks. So, that’s a that’s a good one.
Best Advice
47:46
Uh you kind of answered this maybe
Best Advice
47:48
before, but what’s the best advice
Best Advice
47:50
you’ve ever gotten?
Best Advice
47:52
Well, um I I me I I said my dad pick up
Best Advice
47:56
a broom and start sweeping. There’s
Best Advice
47:58
another bit of wisdom that I I’ll
Best Advice
48:01
mention two. One is when my wife and I
Best Advice
48:03
went to buy our first flat screen, you
Best Advice
48:05
know, back when we were transitioning
Best Advice
48:07
from the traditional TV to a flat
Best Advice
48:09
screen. And at that time, if I remember
Best Advice
48:11
right, I think buying one was like 3,500
Best Advice
48:13
bucks. I mean, it was outrageous to go
Best Advice
48:15
buy a small flat screen. And I remember
Best Advice
48:18
one of my students uh saw on Facebook
Best Advice
48:21
that we were down in Tulsa shopping for
Best Advice
48:22
a flat screen and he gave me this bit of
Best Advice
48:25
advice. Go big or go home.
Best Advice
48:28
That there’s wisdom there. Go big or go
Best Advice
48:30
home. I mean whether it’s a flat screen
Best Advice
48:33
or whether it’s running your company,
Best Advice
48:34
running your church,
Best Advice
48:35
your mission better be big or just go
Best Advice
48:38
home. Forget it.
Best Advice
48:40
So that that was good advice. Another
Best Advice
48:42
bit of advice is in the midst of the
Best Advice
48:44
transition in Oklahoma Wesley when
Best Advice
48:46
everybody was gossiping and everybody
Best Advice
48:47
was complaining about me behind my back
Best Advice
48:49
and everybody was, you know, church
Best Advice
48:51
politics is ugly. Uh, so I knew
Best Advice
48:54
everybody was mad that I was cutting the
Best Advice
48:56
budget to had to get rid of some staff
Best Advice
48:58
that I was making difficult decisions.
Best Advice
49:00
You know, he’s just 41, 42 years old.
Best Advice
49:02
What’s he know? He’s stupid. He doesn’t
Best Advice
49:03
know what he’s doing. I knew that was
Best Advice
49:05
going on. And I’m thinking, “Oh, why did
Best Advice
49:07
I take this job?” I’m sitting in my
Best Advice
49:09
office one day in the middle of this and
Best Advice
49:12
CB Kola, one of the old sages of our
Best Advice
49:16
board of trustees. I mean, he was in his
Best Advice
49:18
80s, he had been chairman of the board
Best Advice
49:21
for a hundred years, Mr. Kola, Dr. Kola.
Best Advice
49:25
I looked up. I’m at my desk and I looked
Best Advice
49:27
up and he’s standing in my doorway
Best Advice
49:30
and he said nothing to me other than
Best Advice
49:32
this. He said, “Mr. president, just be
Best Advice
49:36
quiet.”
Best Advice
49:38
And he turned around and walked away.
Best Advice
49:40
Now, stop and think about what he was
Best Advice
49:42
telling me. He was saying, “I know
Best Advice
49:44
what’s going on. The gossip, the
Best Advice
49:46
hearsay, the innuendo, the criticism.”
Best Advice
49:50
In in Oklahoma terms, if you f if you
Best Advice
49:53
want to find a snake, listen for the
Best Advice
49:54
rattle. Don’t rattle.
Quiet Leadership Wisdom
50:01
mouth and just be quiet. Now,
50:02
he didn’t say all that. All he said is,
50:02
“Mr. president, just be quiet and he
50:04
walks away. There’s a lot of wisdom in
50:07
that and it’s difficult in the midst of
50:09
the controversy and the conflict and the
50:12
transition.
Courage to Be Quiet
50:14
If you’ve got enough courage to keep
50:16
your mouth shut
50:18
and just be quiet and move forward and
50:21
focus on the mission, the positives,
50:22
your goals, be big or go home. People
50:26
are going to backstab and try to
50:28
undercut you, but I think one of the
50:31
best ways to handle it is to put the
50:33
fire out for lack of oxygen. Shut your
50:36
mouth, just be quiet, and lead.
Servant Leadership Importance
50:40
Wow, that’s good. All right. And
50:42
finally, podcast on servant leadership.
50:44
Why should people care about becoming
50:46
better servant leaders?
50:49
If if if you’re not going to lead I mean
50:53
I think the key here is servant
50:55
leadership.
Serving and Leading
50:57
Okay, you can serve a lot of people
51:00
without leading them. I would argue you
51:03
can’t. Um but servant leadership, this
51:07
is this is a this is the assumption that
51:10
we’re talking to people that are
51:12
leading. I if you’re not leading in a
51:15
given direction, if you don’t know where
51:15
you’re going, why you’re going there,
51:17
and if you haven’t convinced people
51:19
passionately, boldly, confidently,
51:21
courageously, that where you’re going is
51:23
the right place, the right direction. If
51:25
you haven’t done that, they will not
51:26
follow you.
Ultimate Goal of Leadership
51:28
So servant leadership means that you’re
51:31
serving them for an ultimate goal, an
51:34
ultimate cause that’s bigger and better
51:36
and more important than themselves.
51:39
So be be bold, be courageous.
Moses and Joshua Leaders
51:44
There are two kinds of leaders in my
51:45
view. There’s a Moses leader and there’s
51:46
a Joshua leader. And some leaders can be
51:49
both, but that’s rare. Moses wasn’t
51:51
both. Apparently Joshua wasn’t both.
51:54
Moses was one of the greatest leaders in
51:56
human history, but he wasn’t the leader
51:58
to actually take the Israelites into the
52:01
promised land. God chose Joshua. So be a
52:05
Moses. Be a Joshua. understand if you
52:08
are a Moses, there’s a time to hand the
52:09
baton to Joshua. But in both cases,
52:12
Moses and Joshua knew who they were,
52:15
what God wanted them to be, and they
52:17
were bold and courageous, and they got
52:19
it done.
Podcast Closing Remarks
52:20
Yeah, that’s so good. Well, Everett,
52:23
thank you so much for joining our
52:25
podcast. I’m thankful for some of your
52:26
wisdom, and I’m excited for people to
52:30
follow you and actually check out what
52:31
you’re doing now, uh, now that you’re
52:33
not at OKW.
Everett Piper’s Podcast
52:36
Um, I encourage them. I I’ve got my own
52:38
little podcast. Not as big a deal as
52:40
yours. I wish it were. Um, I do a
52:43
podcast on YouTube. It’s called The
52:45
Rebellion in Times of Universal Deceit.
52:48
Truth is the only rebellion left.
52:51
That’s my tagline. So, it’s Ever Piper
52:53
and the Rebellion. I do a podcast once a
52:55
week there. It’s just a 25minut hit on
52:57
whatever topic is uh good for the good
52:59
for me for the week. And I write for the
53:01
Washington Times on a weekly basis. And
53:04
like I said and you’ve said, I do speak
53:06
and consult on a as needed and as
53:09
requested basis
Final Thoughts and Thanks
53:10
and and we’ll definitely put some of
53:12
that in the notes where people can go
53:13
check it all out. So thank you and uh
53:16
excited to stay in touch.
53:18
Blessings. Thanks for having me on.
Podcast Conclusion
53:19
Thank you for listening to this episode
53:21
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If
53:24
you enjoyed what you heard, please give
53:26
it a thumbs up and leave a comment
53:28
below. Don’t forget to subscribe and hit
53:32
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53:34
update. Be sure to check out the servant
53:36
leadership podcast.org for more updates
53:38
and additional bonus content.
