No Whining Rule

0:00
In my world, I don't allow general

0:01
whining. If anyone generally whines, I'm

0:04
like, "Nope." But if you're specifically

0:07
frustrated, I'm okay with it.

0:09
Just don't generally whine. So, the

0:11
Peace Index gives you an opportunity to

0:13
go, where are you off?

Introduction to Jeremie Kubicek

0:20
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,

0:22
we welcome Jeremy Kubichek, co-founder

0:24
of Giant Worldwide and one of the most

0:26
recognized thought leaders in the

0:28
leadership development space. Jeremy is

0:30
a Wall Street Journal best-selling

0:31
author whose work has shaped how

0:33
executives, teams, and organizations

0:35
around the world think about influence,

0:38
communication, and self-awareness. His

0:40
books, including Five Voices, Five

0:43
Gears, and The 100X Leader, have given

0:45
leaders practical visual frameworks to

0:48
become more effective at home and at

0:50
work. His newest book, The Voicedriven

0:52
Leader, takes everything he's learned

0:54
about developing people and distills it

0:56
into a modern playbook for leaders who

0:58
want to bring out the best in the voices

0:01:00
around them. In this episode, Jeremy

0:01:03
unpacks how the Peace Index can

0:01:04
transform the way you lead yourself

0:01:06
before leading others, and what a

0:01:08
modern, balanced approach to servant

0:01:10
leadership actually looks like in

0:01:12
practice. Join us as Jeremy shares why

0:01:15
great leaders learn to both challenge

0:01:17
and support the people around them and

0:01:18
how great cultures are built by making

0:01:20
sure every voice is heard.

Chris Welcomes Jeremie

0:01:23
Chris, how you doing? Good to be here.

0:01:25
I am so excited. You've become a thought

0:01:27
leader in the leadership space, which is

0:01:29
a hard thing to become, but people look

0:01:31
to you for a lot of leadership advice.

Becoming a Thought Leader

0:01:34
Uh, how does somebody become a thought

0:01:36
leader in this space like yourself where

0:01:38
tons of people are looking to you for

0:01:40
that kind of advice?

0:01:42
I think that's a funny comment, the

0:01:44
thought leader. It's kind of silly in my

0:01:46
mind because it's like uh I think the

0:01:49
reality is there's there's manufactured

0:01:51
thought leadership.

Authentic vs. Manufactured Leadership

0:01:53
Uh and I was in that world forever. I

0:01:55
used to own John Maxwell's companies. I

0:01:57
worked with Leadercast. I built Catalyst

0:01:59
conferences. I was around thought

0:02:01
thought leaders all the time. And and it

0:02:04
was like, okay, you've got a stick and

0:02:07
you've got you've done a really good job

0:02:09
of marketing. That's what the

0:02:11
manufactured thought leader is. Okay. Uh

0:02:14
authentic thought leadership is passion.

0:02:17
It's interest. It's like and that's what

0:02:20
I am. I'm more in the authentic. My my

0:02:22
point is is that I truly want to

0:02:25
transform people.

Transforming People

0:02:26
I truly want to help people. So, um I

0:02:29
just kept finding and seeing uh people

0:02:32
talking about all these concepts, but

0:02:34
they were just missing it. They weren't

0:02:36
understanding it. And so, I like to make

0:02:38
things super simple. simple enough for a

0:02:40
13-year-old to understand

0:02:41
so that it but powerful enough to change

0:02:44
people. And that's what I've done. I've

0:02:46
just been creating content and ways to

0:02:49
take complex things and make them

0:02:50
simple. And so for that, you get called

0:02:53
a thought leader or you get called, you

0:02:55
know, whatever.

New Book: The Voice Driven Leader

0:02:56
I love that. One of the things that's

0:02:58
interesting and it's convenient having

0:03:00
you on here, uh I think your newest book

0:03:02
talks a little bit about how to develop

0:03:05
uh leaders and how to develop people

0:03:07
into being great servant leaders. talk

0:03:09
about the new book that you have that

0:03:11
just came out.

0:03:12
Yeah. Yeah. So, it's the idea is called

0:03:14
the voice driven leader. So, I used to

0:03:16
live in Russia. I've lived in in a lot

0:03:18
of places around the world. And so, I

0:03:19
lived in Moscow and I learned the

0:03:21
language. So,

Speaking the Right Language

0:03:25
I'm joking. So, if you don't speak

0:03:27
Russian, but if you did speak Russian

0:03:29
and that was your first language, you

0:03:32
would respond differently. So, when when

0:03:33
you speak someone's first language, they

0:03:35
lean in like, "Oh, you get me. you

0:03:38
understand me? And they become more

0:03:40
comfortable. Well, the same is true with

0:03:42
leadership. Uh most of the leadership

0:03:45
that historical leadership is, hey, I do

0:03:48
it my way, you my way of the highway.

0:03:51
Figure it out. If you're on my team, get

0:03:53
used to my voice. Get used to my style.

0:03:55
Well, that's not voice driven

0:03:57
leadership. That's just like power

0:03:59
leadership. It's domination ultimately

0:04:02
versus I care so much that I'm gonna

0:04:05
learn what your personality is, Chris.

0:04:07
And when I if I if I know you are a like

0:04:11
in the five voices language that we

0:04:13
created, if I know that you're a

0:04:14
creative

Servant Leadership Approach

0:04:15
or if I know that you're a guardian,

0:04:18
then I'm going to speak your language.

0:04:19
I'm not going to force you to speak

0:04:21
connector, my language.

0:04:24
So by yielding servant leadership is

0:04:27
like I'm I'm going to fight for your

0:04:28
highest possible good. That means I'm

0:04:30
going to learn how you learn. I'm going

0:04:33
to know who you are so I can develop you

0:04:37
effectively.

Growth and Engagement

0:04:38
And that is a key component to to

0:04:42
growth. It's that most people stop

0:04:45
growing their organizations because

0:04:47
they're capped with their people because

0:04:49
most of their people are compliant.

0:04:51
They're not engaged

0:04:52
and they're not engaged because you're

0:04:54
not speaking their language first.

0:04:56
You're forcing them to speak yours.

Learning Others' Voices

0:04:58
So, how what are some basic steps to

0:05:00
help learn other people's voices?

0:05:04
So, the first is you have to start with

0:05:06
your own. You have to learn your own.

0:05:07
So, you can go to the five number

0:05:09
fivevoices.com. So, fivevoices.com gives

0:05:12
you you can go and find your voice. What

0:05:15
what's your personality truly? What's

0:05:16
your wiring? and it's a simpler version

0:05:18
of MyersBriggs or the Big Five. It's so

0:05:22
much easier language to understand.

0:05:24
Well, once you know, oh my gosh, I'm a

0:05:27
connector, huh? Yeah, that's actually

0:05:29
me. Then you get to know yourself, then

0:05:32
you get curious about, I wonder what

0:05:33
Chris is. I wonder what my wife is. I

0:05:36
wonder what my kids are. Oh my gosh. And

0:05:39
then you start seeing how you've been

0:05:41
missing people

Curiosity and Self-Awareness

0:05:43
only because you've been speaking the

0:05:45
wrong language. even speaking your

0:05:46
language, not theirs. And so it starts

0:05:49
with curiosity

0:05:51
and it starts with deep learning and

0:05:52
self-awareness. And then when you become

0:05:55
so self-aware, if you know yourself to

0:05:57
lead yourself, you'll start knowing

0:05:58
other people to lead them as well.

Five Voices Test

0:06:00
Wow. Okay. So, we'll make sure even for

0:06:04
those listening to throw in some

0:06:05
descriptions so that people can uh can

0:06:08
go take that. It's a test. Just like a

0:06:09
basic test.

0:06:10
It's a it's a it's a it's free.

0:06:12
Cool.

0:06:12
Fivevoices.com.

Five Gears Concept

0:06:13
I love that. Uh, one of the things and

0:06:16
it kind of leads into a topic that I

0:06:18
read of yours that absolutely rocked my

0:06:20
world and it was in the five gears

0:06:22
concept uh or book and it was about

0:06:24
being present and productive and how

0:06:27
some leaders are overproductive and

0:06:29
underpresent and it kind of just went

0:06:30
into all of that. Talk about how like

0:06:34
the five gear stuff helped lead you to

0:06:35
what you're doing now with the voices.

Practical Metaphors

0:06:39
Well, so every all of my books have some

0:06:42
hook or some metaphor that is simple

0:06:45
enough that you can use and practical

0:06:47
enough. And what we kept finding was um

0:06:49
we would have uh conversations with

0:06:51
people and they were too they were

0:06:53
intense at the wrong time or they're

0:06:56
disconnected at the wrong time. So I

0:06:57
started breaking down huh what's a

0:07:00
natural rhythm to our everyday life?

0:07:02
Like uh we all woke up this morning, we

0:07:05
all drove somewhere. we all are meeting

0:07:08
with people. So what I did is I just

0:07:11
broke down a typical calendar of day to

0:07:14
go and and then started to break down

0:07:16
that well there's actual natural

0:07:17
rhythms. So then I put it in the

0:07:19
metaphor of a stick shift, a manual

0:07:21
stick shift driving a car because people

0:07:23
know there's a manual and there's a

0:07:26
automatic and and if you sh you you

0:07:29
ultimately want to be automatic in

0:07:31
shifting gears. So there's a time for

0:07:34
everything. There's a fifth gear, which

0:07:35
is focus mode when you're in the zone.

0:07:37
There's a fourth gear when you're doing

0:07:39
multitask

0:07:41
emails and phone calls and

0:07:43
conversations, you know, task list.

0:07:46
There's a third gear. There's a natural

0:07:48
time for social of just shooting the

0:07:51
breeze. Hey, how's it going, Chris? How

0:07:53
you doing, man? How's your weekend? It

0:07:55
And then there's a time for second gear,

0:07:57
going deep and connecting

0:07:58
connect mode. And then there's a time

0:08:00
for recharge where you just need to

0:08:03
recharge. unplug, go on a walk, read a

0:08:06
book, whatever it is that your recharge

0:08:08
is. So, there's a natural order, but

0:08:12
most people are miss it and they just

0:08:14
don't understand how to actually put it

0:08:16
all together. So, what and then then

0:08:19
they nag we nag each other and we say

0:08:21
things like, "Chris, you're always on

0:08:23
your phone, man. Man, why can't you get

0:08:25
off your phone?" Well, that's nagging

0:08:28
and it's subjective language. So what

0:08:30
I've been mastering is objectivity.

0:08:33
Objective language actually mitigates

0:08:36
drama and it mitigates pride which

0:08:40
causes drama. So for instance, if if you

0:08:43
um if if I come to you and you walk in

0:08:46
my office and my doors close and I give

0:08:48
you the evil stare of like, "What are

0:08:50
you doing here? I'm busy. Can't you

0:08:53
see?" And you're like, "Oh, I'm so

0:08:54
sorry. I'm so sorry." your door's always

0:08:56
shut and it's hard for me to know when I

0:08:58
need because I need things from you. But

0:09:00
if I instead if I go, "Hey, Chris, I'm

0:09:03
in fifth. Can you give me maybe 20

0:09:06
minutes?" You're like, "Dude, yeah,

0:09:08
great. Hook hook up with me in 20

0:09:11
minutes and let's connect." But you

0:09:13
know, I'm into fifth gear and I've just

0:09:15
used a sign language to do it. Um, if

0:09:19
we're all uh hanging out somewhere at a

0:09:22
restaurant and we're all in third gear

0:09:25
social and you walk in with some Killjoy

0:09:30
uh uh conversation like, "Hey, did you

0:09:32
guys get that email from Mark? What was

0:09:34
he trying to say? I don't get it. Are we

0:09:36
supposed to do?" And you're like, "Dude,

0:09:38
I I'm in third gear. You're in fourth.

0:09:41
You're in the wrong gear at the wrong

0:09:42
time." And so that's the idea of this

0:09:45
like how do you stay in the right gear

0:09:46
at the right time? And most people lose

0:09:49
influence because they don't understand

0:09:51
they're in the wrong gear at the wrong

0:09:52
time. So we just basically put a system

0:09:56
in a sign language for people to be able

0:09:58
to implement with their families or

0:09:59
their team.

Personal Experience with Five Gears

0:10:00
I love that. I think out of all your

0:10:03
content, uh that's the one that I

0:10:06
personally have struggled with and

0:10:07
learned from the most. Um because I can

0:10:10
even think through circumstances where

0:10:12
we've been walking to lunch and people

0:10:13
are talking socially and I'll bring up

0:10:15
work and then in the joke is now that

0:10:18
I'm not allowed to bring up work on the

0:10:20
walks to lunch, right? And it's exactly

0:10:22
it's exactly the the description you

0:10:24
explained.

Objective Language

0:10:26
Yeah. Yeah. So they just instead they

0:10:28
just need to go, "Hey Chris, dude,

0:10:30
chill."

0:10:30
Yeah.

0:10:31
We're in three.

0:10:32
Yeah.

Self-Health of a Leader

0:10:33
So something that that I think your

0:10:35
content has been really helpful for just

0:10:37
in general and it's not just one thing,

0:10:39
it's lots of things is like the

0:10:40
self-health of a leader, right? And you

0:10:43
kind of talk about this from a bunch of

0:10:45
different stuff, uh, a bunch of

0:10:46
different angles. I see over your

0:10:48
shoulder the peace index. Talk about for

0:10:50
our audience the peace index and how

0:10:52
like the the different um I forget what

0:10:55
you call them, but like levels of peace

0:10:57
or types of peace in your life like

0:10:58
actually affect the leader.

Understanding Peace Index

0:11:01
So let me frame it like this first. If

0:11:03
you're if you want to be a person a

0:11:05
servant leader should be a person worth

0:11:08
following,

0:11:09
not have to follow.

0:11:11
Okay. Now that's a really important and

0:11:13
I and I do want to bring up and talk to

0:11:15
you about a massive framework on servant

0:11:17
leadership after we get through peace.

0:11:19
Love it.

0:11:19
But if you u if you want to be someone

0:11:22
that people want to follow, then you you

0:11:25
can't give what you don't possess. You

0:11:26
have to be alive. So, every person has a

0:11:31
peace number over their head and that

0:11:33
number changes every single day and it's

0:11:35
your peace index. And so, today I'm

0:11:39
probably, if I had to guess, I'm

0:11:40
probably about a 92. So, my level of

0:11:43
peace is really high right now.

0:11:45
Partially because I'm going on vacation

0:11:46
next week and I'm super stoked for it.

0:11:49
But 92 is pretty high. But your peace is

0:11:52
basically broken down into five

0:11:54
components. There's um purpose, your

0:11:57
level of purpose, uh your your level of

0:12:00
uh people, peace with your people in

0:12:02
your life, your top 10 people you work

0:12:03
with uh or live with. Uh your place has

0:12:07
a major component to your peace level.

0:12:10
Your provision, what's your earnings,

0:12:12
your income, and then your um personal

0:12:14
health is your indicator. It will tell

0:12:16
you it it's like the dashboard of your

0:12:19
peace. it will tell you and that me and

0:12:21
that's like uh spiritual mental uh

0:12:24
physical kind of your total health. So

0:12:27
the idea is if you have to you need to

0:12:30
know where you're off and most people

0:12:33
like I don't in my world I don't allow

0:12:35
general whining. If anyone generally

0:12:37
whines I'm like nope. But if you're

0:12:40
specifically frustrated I'm okay with

0:12:42
it.

Specific Frustration

0:12:43
Just don't generally whine. So the peace

0:12:45
index gives you an opportunity to go

0:12:47
where are you off? Are you off with

0:12:49
purpose? Are you off of people? Man, I'm

0:12:52
just so frustrated. I'm so mad. Okay,

0:12:54
what is it? Well, my my business is not

0:12:58
going where I wanted it to go. Okay, so

0:13:01
you missed your expectations. Okay, tell

0:13:04
me more. Yeah, and I just don't feel

0:13:06
like I can get it on track and so ah so

0:13:08
that's an existential threat.

Analyzing Peace Components

0:13:11
Is that is that also affecting your

0:13:13
provision? Is your provision low? So

0:13:14
then what I'll do is I'll go through and

0:13:16
analyze one through 100, how's your

0:13:19
purpose? I'm at a 65 today. One through

0:13:23
100, how's your provision? Maybe a 70.

0:13:26
One through 100, how's your uh place,

0:13:29
your spaces and your places you live and

0:13:31
work? Uh 90. Um people, uh 80. Personal

0:13:37
health, I'm feeling a little stress.

Quantifying Peace Index

0:13:41
Okay. So your peace index is being so

0:13:43
all of a sudden you can start to hone in

0:13:45
what's off and now we're using language

0:13:48
that doesn't need a therapist.

0:13:50
You don't have to go to a counsel for

0:13:52
it's just literally going and so now how

0:13:55
do I how do I help you with your

0:13:57
purpose? Is there anything I can do to

0:13:58
help you with purpose? And maybe maybe

0:14:00
not. You know maybe there's other

0:14:02
solutions. But what's great about it is

0:14:04
it helps you quantify and then there's

0:14:07
strategies um to it. And then what I've

0:14:10
done is I've now taken it to a deeper

0:14:12
level. I'm working on this right now of

0:14:14
stress behavior and chronic stress and

0:14:17
where chronic stress stays on. And uh

0:14:20
what I found is cortisol or stress will

0:14:24
show up in any of those areas, but it'll

0:14:27
show up a little differently like

0:14:29
people's stress will will will have a

0:14:32
different effect than existential

0:14:35
purpose stress. And so you have to

0:14:38
understand where you could get taken out

0:14:40
by the the stress and how do you reset

0:14:43
your nervous system is really important

0:14:46
to be again a great leader long term.

Stress and Leadership

0:14:49
Yeah. I mean even thinking about it from

0:14:51
the stress side I I already am excited

0:14:53
to to read about that and hear about

0:14:55
that whenever you come out with it. I

0:14:56
think it's so easy. One of the things I

0:14:58
like about the peace index is that a lot

0:15:00
of people are thinking about things like

0:15:02
faith, family, fun, finances, friends,

0:15:05
and like they're measuring how they're

0:15:06
doing in those areas, right? Just like

0:15:08
anecdotally, but I think the cool part

0:15:09
is how you bring it together and put it

0:15:12
under like this a score, right? And in

0:15:15
the just the way you've done it. I

0:15:18
really really like that and would

0:15:19
encourage people who are listening to

0:15:20
this to even think about their score

0:15:22
every day, you know, almost like a wood

0:15:24
score. people. The people love the piece

0:15:28
and I mean and that's what I that's the

0:15:30
fun part. I just write

0:15:32
I write really simple pathy con concepts

0:15:35
but put it in some sort of a useful

0:15:38
assessment or metaphor. That's the

0:15:41
entire goal. So that that people

0:15:42
remember the hook versus a bunch of

0:15:45
jargon. Right.

Servant Leadership Framework

0:15:46
Yeah. All right. So I have to ask you

0:15:48
said you have uh a modern framework on

0:15:51
servant leadership or re like some extra

0:15:53
thoughts. give us give us those thoughts

0:15:55
sometimes. Okay, I'm let me give you the

0:15:56
framework first and I'm going to tell

0:15:58
you what the dilemma with servant

0:15:59
leadership is and where it usually gets

0:16:02
um it gets pigeon holed. Um so uh

0:16:07
there's two there's a matrix what we

0:16:09
built called the support challenge

0:16:10
matrix and it's the we think it's the

0:16:12
best matrix for servant leadership

0:16:14
and we've been told that a lot but we we

0:16:17
feel it. Uh so there's two axes x and y

0:16:20
axis. So the the first is there's high

0:16:22
support and there's low support and then

0:16:25
there's high challenge and low

0:16:27
challenge. So if you play that game the

0:16:30
best leaders in the world bring high

0:16:32
support and high challenge. They become

0:16:35
liberators. They become a that's

0:16:37
liberation. So their focus is on

0:16:40
fighting for the highest possible good

0:16:43
to bring high high support but high high

0:16:46
challenge.

High Support and Challenge

0:16:47
And the challenge is important there

0:16:49
because if you bring high support with a

0:16:53
low challenge, you kind of hint a lot

0:16:56
and there's a lot of kumbaya and it

0:16:58
sounds like this. Like, hey Chris, how's

0:17:00
it going, man? Good weekend? Yeah, good.

0:17:03
Hey, just checking in. Where are we at

0:17:06
on our, you know, our big event here at

0:17:08
end of April? We all set?

0:17:11
And you're like, yeah, good, good.

0:17:13
That's weird. And then a couple days

0:17:15
later, hey man, I'm just circling back.

0:17:17
I'm just, you know, I got a couple of

0:17:19
questions in there, but I'm just

0:17:21
checking in. Like, I'm afraid to

0:17:23
challenge.

0:17:24
So, I hint

0:17:26
because I'm highly supportive.

0:17:28
So, sometimes

0:17:30
servant leadership can show up and we

0:17:32
call this protection. It's enabling. So,

0:17:36
protectors bring high support and low

0:17:38
challenge.

True Servant Leadership

0:17:40
True servant leadership is I am so for

0:17:43
you, but I'm going to fight for your

0:17:45
highest possible good so that I hold you

0:17:48
accountable to the things we all agree

0:17:49
upon.

0:17:50
That's liberation. That's really servant

0:17:53
leadership.

0:17:54
But oftentimes what will happen is if

0:17:56
you bring support with low challenge,

0:17:59
then it's like helicopter parenting or

0:18:02
enabling or so you create this culture

0:18:04
of mistrust because uh you kumbaya and

0:18:08
hint And then when the pressure comes

0:18:11
on, you you bring challenge with low

0:18:13
support.

0:18:14
And that's called domination.

0:18:16
Domination is all challenge, no support.

0:18:19
I lived in the former Soviet Union and I

0:18:22
know what that feels like. High high

0:18:23
high challenge, low support. It's like

0:18:26
fear and manipulation to motivate you to

0:18:30
get you to do things. So I was a Dr.

0:18:33
Jackekal Mr. Hyde. I've been a servant

0:18:35
leader for a long time, but I was a Dr.

0:18:37
Jackekal Mr. hide because I would go

0:18:39
high support uh low challenge and all of

0:18:42
a sudden when I wasn't getting it I'd go

0:18:44
down to high challenge low support and

0:18:47
they were like dude what happened to you

0:18:48
and that caused everyone to have like a

0:18:50
caution sign around me for a big part of

0:18:53
my career

Elevating Challenge

0:18:54
and then what I did is I finally learned

0:18:56
how to elevate challenge so now I'm not

0:18:59
afraid to talk about hard things with

0:19:02
people I'm not afraid to talk about um

0:19:05
our goals or or what we agree Dude, and

0:19:07
then I'm not afraid to even talk. Hey,

0:19:09
Chris, can we have a conversation? Dude,

0:19:11
you know I'm for you, right? And because

0:19:14
that's that's the symbol. I'm for you.

0:19:16
I'm about to bring challenge.

0:19:18
But because you know I'm fighting for

0:19:20
your highest possible good, you'll run

0:19:22
through a brick wall for me and with me.

0:19:24
Yeah.

0:19:24
Because I'm not trying to just do it for

0:19:26
myself. I'm fighting for your highest

0:19:28
possible good and our highest possible

0:19:30
good. So, does that make sense?

Practical Steps for Leaders

0:19:33
Yeah, it makes sense. practically, let's

0:19:35
say you're leading a team of five, 10,

0:19:37
20 people, whatever. How do you do that?

0:19:39
Because I I do feel like you've got

0:19:41
these dominating leaders who it's like

0:19:43
my way or the highway. And then you've

0:19:45
got this like

0:19:47
passive leadership, which is like we're

0:19:49
all heading in the right direction,

0:19:51
right? Like like you talked about, but

0:19:55
it's like how what are some steps you

0:19:57
encourage people to take to actually

0:19:58
like raise that challenge when they're

0:20:00
when they're low on the challenge side?

Voice Driven Leadership

0:20:04
So, uh, all right. It's a great

0:20:07
question. The best way to do it is back

0:20:08
to the voice driven leader.

0:20:10
Know who they are.

0:20:12
They're just they're living out of their

0:20:14
voice. So, a pioneer or a guardian, a

0:20:17
pioneers are 7% of the population.

0:20:19
Guardians are 30%. They're thinkers.

0:20:23
So, they're they're thinking rational,

0:20:24
logical. Well, a guardian is going to

0:20:27
want a detail oriented. And a pioneer is

0:20:29
just they're a general. They just bark

0:20:32
orders. Okay. So if you know that about

0:20:35
the the person then you know do they

0:20:37
need challenge right now or support or

0:20:39
what does support look like for a

0:20:41
pioneer is totally different than

0:20:44
support for a nurturer.

Understanding Individual Needs

0:20:46
Nurturer makes up 43% of the population.

0:20:48
They're the quietest voice. 70% are

0:20:51
female. They're teachers usually or

0:20:54
they're nurses or they stay at home

0:20:56
moms. Well, they need support. It's like

0:21:00
differently. So another way to think of

0:21:02
it would be think of it like uh if you

0:21:05
had plants five different types of plant

0:21:08
a pioneer is like a cactus they don't

0:21:10
need much water. Just position them well

0:21:14
and just let them go. So support and

0:21:17
challenge is going to look a little

0:21:18
different. Uh a nurturer is like a

0:21:20
ficus. Uh they need a lot of water and

0:21:22
they need a right level of sunlight. But

0:21:24
when you position them there they they

0:21:27
are beautiful. They're amazing. they

0:21:29
bring a lot of oxygen to the room. So

0:21:32
that's the way that you're doing. You're

0:21:34
like, who do you need more water? Do you

0:21:36
need more sunlight? Do you need more

0:21:38
interaction? What is it that you need to

0:21:41
be blooming correctly? And and what

0:21:43
happens with most leaders is they take a

0:21:45
plant. I'm acting like this is a plant.

0:21:48
And like, um, all right, I got a we got

0:21:50
a new plant. We got them off of Indeed.

0:21:52
Um, great. We got them. All right, good.

0:21:54
Got them. We put them underneath. And

0:21:56
then they throw the card. The card tells

0:21:58
you exactly how to water and take care

0:22:00
of that plant. Most people take that

0:22:02
card and they just throw it away.

0:22:04
And so then a leader will take a plant,

0:22:06
put it underneath a desk, doesn't do

0:22:08
anything. And then they pull it out six

0:22:10
months later and they're like, "Golly,

0:22:12
plants these days, you can't find a good

0:22:14
plant,

0:22:15
and they go back to Indeed and try to

0:22:17
get find another good plant." Like, no,

0:22:19
you have to develop them. And the card

0:22:21
tells you exactly what kind of water

0:22:24
they need. So the five voices is your

0:22:27
plant card

0:22:28
to learn do they need more support or

0:22:30
more challenge and a servant leader is

0:22:33
focused on them to develop them based on

0:22:36
who they are not just forcing them to do

0:22:39
who I am. That in our view is the best

0:22:43
way to do servant leadership.

Impact of AI on Leadership

0:22:44
I love that. And I I know the answer to

0:22:47
this next question might be that it

0:22:49
comes back to the voices but I'm

0:22:51
curious, right? you've got all these

0:22:53
people who are going to be affected by

0:22:56
AI, right? And sometimes that

0:22:59
challenging might come across where

0:23:01
people are maybe changing how they would

0:23:04
normally respond because they're uh

0:23:06
defensive and worried and it goes back

0:23:09
to the stress and maybe the anxiety that

0:23:10
they're feeling, right, related to their

0:23:12
work. H how do you think leaders can

0:23:15
best help build up that trust that being

0:23:18
a great servant leader does build

0:23:20
knowing that they also want to challenge

0:23:22
people to move into the future for their

0:23:24
good and for the company's good while

0:23:26
not making them think that they're going

0:23:28
away?

Hyperpersonalization with AI

0:23:30
Well, I actually have a solution to

0:23:31
this. It's funny. We have we built five

0:23:33
voices AI. We basically if you take the

0:23:37
if you if everyone on your team has

0:23:39
taken the voices then you can basically

0:23:42
add five voices AI it knows so it

0:23:45
already knows Chris and so when Chris

0:23:47
shows up and I go hey how do I connect

0:23:50
with Chris better or can you read this

0:23:53
email that I got from Chris and tell me

0:23:55
well remember Chris is a guardian here's

0:23:57
what he's looking for

0:23:59
and I go oh can you write a response to

0:24:01
him based on who he is it writes it for

0:24:04
you. Now, I'm using hyperpersonalization

0:24:08
to be more effective to team leadership.

0:24:10
Or if I want to do a performance review

0:24:12
to a nurturer and I've got some

0:24:13
challenging things to say, how do I tell

0:24:16
Susan that about here's the performance

0:24:18
review I want? Can you tailor it to her?

0:24:21
All of a sudden, it crafts and it

0:24:23
personalizes, customizes. And I think

0:24:26
this is the direction we're heading is

0:24:28
like because of AI, we can

0:24:30
hyperpersonalize. There's there's not an

0:24:32
excuse for us to miss it.

0:24:34
relationally.

0:24:35
Yeah,

0:24:36
it's like good night. It gives us all

0:24:38
the clues.

Using AI in Leadership

24:40
We just have to execute on

24:41
it.

24:43
And so that's how that's how I'm using

24:44
that's that's partially a way we're

24:45
using AI.

Visuals in Leadership Style

24:47
I like that. One one of the things that

24:50
I think is unique about your leadership

24:52
style from the outside. And you may

24:54
decide this isn't true, but what I've

24:57
noticed is you use a lot of uh awesome

25:00
hooks, but also a lot of visuals. Um,

25:03
I've seen you create tons of visuals

25:04
versus like trying to write it down in

25:07
like your step five-step process. That

25:09
doesn't seem to be so much how you've

25:10
taught and how people are learning from

25:13
you. So, talk about how you developed

25:16
that skill set and that style because it

25:19
it's been impactful on me.

21st Century Learning

25:19
Yeah. So, it's it's truly um interesting

25:21
that the 21st century learning um is

25:25
different with everything is visual. I

25:27
mean, these little devices, uh, these

25:29
phones, uh, it's like it's it's short,

25:33
sweet, to the point, but what we found

25:35
is you have to create, um, a visual that

25:38
people can remember because they're not

25:40
going to read anymore

25:41
because people just don't read anymore

25:43
truly. I mean, the the you can the

25:45
statistics show it. So therefore, if

25:48
you're still doing bullet points and

25:50
outlines and the traditional, no one's

25:53
going to remember it. So we have to take

25:55
one big idea and put it into a visual

25:59
that I can anchor it to and then train

26:01
you on. So if I go back to the gears and

26:02
go, "Hey Chris, fifth gear's focus,

26:05
fourth this task, third is social,

26:07
second's connect, first is recharge, you

26:10
can get it. Now you can call plays. Now

26:12
you can look at people and go, hey,

26:15
so that's a visual example." Or if I use

26:19
a visual tool like the peace index, I've

26:21
given you numbers. I've given you

26:23
symbols. I've given you one visual and

26:24
you can get that pretty quickly and

26:26
you'll remember it. Well, if you teach

26:28
it, you learn. That's the the key. If

26:31
you can teach it to someone else, you

26:34
learn yourself.

Teaching for Scalability

26:35
And then if you teach it, it scales.

26:38
So then if it's teachable, then it's

26:41
scalable and then it's sustainable. And

26:44
that's the key that we we bring to to

26:47
the world. And it's just amazing how

26:49
many people you think would not who

26:51
would get it and pick it up. So we work

26:53
inside the large companies and small

26:55
companies but Google's to the you know

26:58
biogens down to small companies. Um and

27:01
we have consultants that coach and use

27:04
all of our tools inside um thousands of

27:07
businesses every day. Well that's all

27:10
being done through a 21st century modern

27:13
style of learning.

Toolkit for Effective Learning

27:15
And so we've just found um that if you

27:17
have a toolkit then this toolkit in fact

27:20
I'll show you ours real fast.

27:22
I know we're getting low on time, but

27:24
here we go. Ours, this is like a This is

27:27
an old school. We have it obviously in

27:28
an app as well or we have an online

27:31
platform. This is our toolkit, 100x

27:33
leader toolkit. And it's all designed to

27:36
be really really simple so you can

27:38
understand like how to relate to people.

27:41
This entire tool is how to have impact

27:44
with people in the in your office or

27:46
your workplace. So all of the tools are

27:49
designed these are the the dynamics

27:52
between these are the nemesis voices of

27:54
all the voices to know who and why

27:56
people drive you nuts. So um we have

27:59
them on this is how to eliminate gossip.

28:02
If you want to eliminate gossip this

28:03
entire this one tool literally

28:07
takes gossip away from your company your

28:09
organization. So, we have about 80

28:12
tools, 75 tools or so in here, and all

28:14
of them are designed to um change the

28:18
way that you solve problems and and help

28:21
people uh learn how to be more

28:23
effective.

Creating Memorable Concepts

28:23
So, if somebody has their own processes

28:25
or thoughts, how do they even start

28:27
thinking about creating such catchy and

28:30
memorable things like you've been able

28:32
to create?

28:34
It it uh it goes down to the the most

28:37
common basic. What's the one big idea?

28:40
Can I say it in a metaphor? Can I create

28:42
it in an axiom? Can I create it in a

28:44
visual tool? Um, and so we take and

28:48
frame it, get it all the way down to the

28:51
common something that's scalable and

28:53
memorable.

Influence in Leadership

28:55
One thing you talked about as you were

28:56
flipping through pages is some of the

28:58
nemesises of leaders. I've heard you

29:00
talk about uh influence being one of the

29:04
I don't know if it was the nemesis of

29:06
leader but just how influence can be

29:08
really dangerous for a leader and by

29:10
default a lot of leaders have influence.

29:13
Talk about how you see influence show up

29:15
positively or negative in leaders.

Intent and Influence

29:18
Um okay so um basically if you think

29:22
about um uh leadership is influence and

29:26
influence is power.

29:28
So, it's your intent. What are you doing

29:30
with the power? Are you are you using

29:32
the power to overpower people or empower

29:35
people?

29:36
That's that's how it boils down. What's

29:38
your intent for a person? I'm so I'm so

29:41
frustrated. I want them to know who's

29:43
boss. Ah, so your intent is to overpower

29:46
them because you want them to so that

29:49
what's it going to look like? It's going

29:50
to look like fear or manipulation. So,

29:53
it's going to it's going to be blood in

29:55
the water. and they're like, "So, they

29:57
know who's boss. Great." They don't want

30:00
to work with you, and they lead another

30:02
team that's not going to be very open to

30:05
you. And so, now you've got a silo

30:08
that's

30:09
uh that that's not your friend. How's

30:12
that working for you? So, the idea of

30:15
influence is really to go, look, when

30:17
I'm with someone, if if Chris, if I know

30:20
you're a thinker, I'm a feeler, okay?

30:22
And I know that you're a thinker. If

30:24
that was the case that you're a thinker

30:25
and I'm a feeler, then thinkers for

30:29
influence to to have influence in

30:30
someone's life, it means that they they

30:33
trust you. Well, to have that trust,

30:35
then you have to have competency and

30:37
then credibility.

Building Trust and Influence

30:39
Uh what I want as a feeler, I want to

30:42
start with character and chemistry.

30:44
Are you a good person? And do I like

30:46
you?

30:47
Thinkers start with competency and

30:50
credibility and then then they go to

30:52
character and chemistry.

30:54
So if I'm speaking to um a thinker and I

30:57
see you um and and we meet for the first

31:00
time, hey, hey Chris, how's it going

31:02
man? Tell me about yourself. Tell me

31:04
about your family. The thinker's like,

31:06
oh gosh, really? Okay. Tell me about you

31:09
have a cat. You have a dog. Tell what's

31:12
your grandma's name? I meant I'm joking

31:14
here being facicious but like

31:16
if a feeler they're trying to connect

31:18
around chemistry and character to figure

31:20
someone out

31:21
the the thinker is like I just don't

31:23
have time for that.

31:24
U so if I know that I'm talking to a

31:27
thinker a pioneer or guardian I'm going

31:29
to start with competency and

31:32
credibility. Even if I'm a feeler, I'm

31:34
speaking your language.

31:36
Hey Chris, good to meet you man. I'm so

31:38
excited to talk about X and Y. Um, yeah,

31:40
I'd love to know your questions that you

31:42
have on it. Get right to the point. And

31:44
they're like, "Oh, that was so good.

31:46
This guy's amazing." Then your chemistry

31:48
is going to be great because I'm

31:50
speaking the way that you'd want.

31:51
Yeah.

31:52
Then they're going to go at the very

31:53
end, you're going to go, "Yeah, hey, so

31:55
by the way, Jeremy, tell me about your

31:57
family. Where are you from?"

31:59
So they backend to it. And so this is

32:02
the game. It's like to understand

32:04
influence. What's your intent? Who's the

32:06
other person? How do I empower them? not

32:09
overpower them. How do I bring support

32:11
and challenge? You start learning this

32:14
system and you become a people

32:15
whisperer.

Adapting Communication Styles

32:17
And it's it's just and people are always

32:19
amazed. I get this all the time. Like,

32:21,
dude, you know everyone like you're

32:23
always people always like you. It's not

32:26
manipulation. It's just that I learn who

32:28
they are and then I speak their

32:30
language.

32:31
Yeah.

32:32
So, I'm a connector. So, if I'm with a

32:35
heavy pioneer, I just get in pioneer

32:37
pioneer mode with them.

32:39
Wow.

32:39
And then they back in to chemistry and

32:42
character.

32:43
I love that. Um, and it's so funny. My

32:46
my wife and I were literally talking

32:47
about the thinker versus feeler

32:48
yesterday. Um, so this is it's just so

32:51
funny because I'm definitely the thinker

32:53
and she's definitely the feeler. Just

32:54
how we things are very different. So,

32:57
how do you decide if you need to be uh

33:00
and it's kind of a leading question, but

33:02
how do you decide if you need to be the

33:03
one who's adjusting

33:05
the conversation to fit their voice or

33:08
is it more about letting them adjust to

33:11
my voice?

Servant Leadership Approach

33:13
So, you you started us off with a

33:16
servant leader. So, I've been talking to

33:18
the leader.

33:19
Leaders define culture.

33:21
If you're a servant leader, that doesn't

33:23
mean you just are a doormat and

33:24
capitulate to everybody. The servant

33:27
leaders, they set the tone. They create

33:30
the atmosphere. High support, high

33:32
challenge. I'm going to learn your

33:34
voice. I'm going to show you the culture

33:36
we're going to build.

33:37
I'm going to servant leader. I'm going

33:38
to learn about you and help develop you,

33:41
but I'm going to hold you accountable.

33:43
Very different than if you're the

33:46
employee to a boss. And there's only you

33:49
can control what you can control. Do you

33:52
lead any people? No. Okay. You're just

33:54
on the team. Well, then you have

33:55
teammates. Well, learn their voice.

33:59
Learn and understand who they are. Learn

34:01
who you are. Right? So, you can have

34:03
influence underneath and inside a team

34:05
even if you're not the team leader.

34:07
But ultimately, what we're trying to do

34:08
is set the tone for leaders. Uh leaders

34:12
define culture. Sub leaders define

34:14
subculture.

Defining Culture in Teams

34:16
So the subculture, every company is made

34:18
up of about a hundred subcultures

34:21
and every team leader leads those

34:24
subcultures.

34:26
So um I don't know if I answered your

34:28
question, but that's I'm pretty adamant

34:30
about um man learn the voice, be curious

34:33
about other people and your influence

34:35
will go up dramatically. How did teams

34:37
first approach like learning the five

34:40
voices and then actually implementing it

34:43
across the teams and across departments?

34:45
Because e even hearing this and I've

34:47
read a lot of your content um it's like

34:49
I love it and then it's okay how do you

34:51
actually see it happen?

Implementing the Five Voices

34:53
Do it. All right. So uh you first you go

34:56
to the five voices take the assessment

34:58
you get a free report. There is a payw

35:01
wall that goes hey if you want to add

35:02
this to your team it's like $10 a month.

35:05
It's not very expensive. Um, and you

35:08
basically then go and u it it it has

35:12
everyone on your team. It shows all the

35:14
members on your team and then you can

35:16
literally see who everyone is and talk

35:18
about it. Then they watch their own

35:21
videos about themselves. They get access

35:24
to five voices AI and they start playing

35:26
with like, "Oh my gosh, Chris, it's not

35:30
it's not just AI like chat. It's like

35:32
it's we've built our own LLM. So we have

35:35
our own uh fully built out personality

35:38
traits. So we have like 1.4 million

35:41
different iterations of personality all

35:44
in AI mixed with AI. So now you can uh

35:48
you can now uh assign uh things to each

35:52
other. You can actually start learning

35:54
about the voices and you can sign work

35:57
and homework that like videos to watch.

35:59
Then you get into the team performance

36:01
assessment and you start taking the

36:03
assessment and it basically shows how's

36:06
our communication, how's our strategy,

36:08
how's our alignment, how's our

36:09
execution. Then it has five voices AI

36:13
baked into it. So it just goes deeper

36:15
and deeper. So but you jump into

36:18
fivevoices.com take the assessment start

36:21
going on the journey as a team and it

36:23
will it will give you like step by step

36:26
what needs to happen. A lot of people

36:28
go, "You know what? We still want an

36:31
implement." So, we have consultants that

36:33
implement the five voices that you can

36:36
reach out, you can ask for, and we have

36:38
access to depending on where you're at.

36:41
Uh you can do retreats, you can do

36:43
trainings, you can have coaching,

36:45
there's all types of different levels or

36:48
you can get trained on it in your

36:49
yourself. It's called a catalyst. If you

36:51
have a person internally and you want to

36:53
do it yourself and get certified, you

36:55
get certified on it and then you can run

36:57
the system inside.

Building a Better Culture

36:59
A lot of this is about building a better

37:01
culture right within your team and and

37:04
being able to speak to each other. Well,

37:05
one of the things that I'm curious uh

37:08
about is how you see and I know you work

37:10
with massive teams, smaller teams, you

37:12
work with a lot of different types of

37:13
teams. How do the best teams implement a

37:16
great culture building environment

37:19
without making their full-time business

37:21
culture building? Or does it just end up

37:24
being your full-time business within the

37:25
business?

Implementing Culture Tools

37:27
No, it's it's it's actually

37:29
understanding 10 tools.

37:32
Take 10 tools, add them into your world.

37:35
Uh the support challenge matrix is the

37:37
power tool. It's the number one tool of

37:39
any of our tools. Uh the the the voices

37:42
are like lenses. They're like glasses.

37:44
They go, "Oh, you're a guardian. Okay."

37:47
And the tools are like mirrors.

37:49
Uh they when you see a mirror, when you

37:52
look at the sport challenge matrix, you

37:53
can very very quickly see what's it like

37:55
to be on the other side of you.

37:57
So that's the support challenge matrix.

38:00
And so when you look at it and go, "Oh

38:01
my gosh, I want to be a liberator or I'm

38:04
a I'm dominating at home and I'm

38:08
abdicating at work." Huh. It gives you

38:11
this opportunity to self-reflect. But

38:13
what you're really doing is you're

38:15
giving enough tools to start the process

38:18
of self-awareness. And if people can

38:20
become self-aware, they start correcting

38:22
themselves. I always I have this adage I

38:25
like to say is like, could you manage

38:27
your, you know, could you work to manage

38:29
your emotions so other people don't have

38:31
to manage your emotions? Like you should

38:33
be responsible for managing your own

38:35
emotions.

Self-Awareness and Emotions

38:36
You should be responsible for managing

38:38
it, becoming self-aware.

38:40
It shouldn't take 20 people to tell you

38:42
the same thing for you to get it right.

38:44
Well, that's what we're doing. We're

38:45
building a system using tools so you get

38:48
better as we're doing the work.

38:51
Yeah.

38:51
So, that's kind of the process that that

38:53
we've put in implemented.

Rapid Fire Questions

38:55
Wow. I love that. All right, Jeremy, I

38:58
want to finish with 10 rapid fire

38:59
questions where you just answer the

39:01
first thing that comes to mind.

39:03
Who's the first person you think of when

39:06
I say servant leadership?

Servant Leadership Example

39:09
Well, I'm gonna go with Jesus because he

39:11
was the he was the ultimate liberator.

39:13
Um, but it's different than I think most

39:15
people think of.

39:17
He was a lamb. He is a lamb and a lion.

39:20
A lot of it you see lion.

39:23
Um, more than even lamb. But

39:25
wow. Yeah,

39:26
that's good. That's got to be episode

39:28
two when we have you back sometime

39:30
talking just through that. Um, five

39:32
words to most describe you.

Describing Jeremie Kubicek

39:35
Five words. Yeah. Um, uh, yeah. Uh, that

39:39
sounds funny. Funny. I love to laugh. I

39:42
love to to joke around. Uh, funny.

39:44
Wisdom, freedom, uh, peace,

39:48
and agility.

39:51
Favorite author or book?

Favorite Book

39:54
You know, my favorite book is actually

39:56
one. It's on on the leadership book. I

39:58
really like Heroic Leadership by Chris

40:00
Lowey. It's It's like It's a little one

40:04
of those like some people have heard of

40:06
it, a lot of people haven't, but it's so

40:08
rich. It's like the It's It really

40:11
really shaped what I'm doing right now.

40:13
Wow. I got to check that out. I love to

40:14
read and I haven't heard it.

40:16
Yeah.

40:16
Uh favorite food?

Favorite Food

40:19
Uh I'm German. I'm Czechlovakian, but I

40:21
love German food.

40:22
All right.

40:23
Strangely not.

40:24
Favorite thing to do in your free time?

Free Time Activity

40:26
Uh my wife and I love to go uh find a

40:29
restaurant. I love ambiance and I love

40:32
to find new places and uh so we just go

40:35
take some friends and just go out to

40:38
dinner.

40:38
Love that surprising fact about you.

Surprising Fact

40:42
Um I was in a blues band in Moscow,

40:45
Russia. Um and I play harmonica and

40:48
acoustic guitar and then I've won gone

40:51
on to uh built off Broadway musicals and

40:55
I've produced a lot of albums.

40:56
Wow. All right. favorite place you've

40:58
been, and I know you've been a lot of

40:59
places.

Favorite Place

41:02
Gosh, yeah. I mean, my favorite place,

41:04
honestly, is uh the Alps. I love to ski

41:07
in the Alps. I love Switzerland.

41:09
Austria. I really like Austria. The

41:11
culture of Austria, I think, is even

41:13
better than Switzerland's culture, but I

41:15
love just the mountains and I love the

41:16
Alps.

41:17
Is there anywhere you want to go that

41:18
you have not been to yet?

Future Travel Destination

41:22
You know, I have been uh I want to go

41:25
back to New Zealand. I would probably

41:27
say I've been to New Zealand. I haven't

41:28
been to Australia. I would probably say

41:30
Australia.

41:31
Wow. All right. What's the best advice

41:33
you have ever received?

Best Advice Received

41:36
Um, the best advice that shaped me early

41:39
was if you're in the 20s or early 30s.

41:42
It's not what you do, it's who you work

41:44
with or for.

41:46
It's not what, but who at that age

41:49
specifically because they'll shape you

41:50
and they'll train you and develop you in

41:52
ways. Um, that was probably the best

41:55
advice that I received at that time.

41:57
I love that. All right. Finally, this is

41:59
a podcast on servant leadership. Why

42:01
does it matter that people listening

42:04
care about servant leadership and become

42:06
better servant leaders?

Importance of Servant Leadership

42:09
Um, we know what it's like when people

42:13
aren't servant leaders. I'd call them

42:14
dominating leaders. And dominating

42:17
leadership produces fear and

42:18
manipulation. And it produces

42:21
compliance. And again living in Russia I

42:24
watch what happens with 70 years of fear

42:27
produced abdication.

42:29
So why it matters is that if a servant

42:32
leader can be a liberator not a

42:33
protector but truly liberating other

42:35
people fighting for their highest

42:37
possible good it builds really really

42:40
strong cultures and strong people.

42:41
Wow.

42:42
And we need more we need we need better

42:44
leaders

42:44
100%. Well thank you so much for sharing

42:47
some of your wisdom. Uh I'm curious just

42:50
to close us out. There's so much content

42:53
that you have made that people should be

42:54
connecting with. What's the best way for

42:56
them to connect with all the stuff

42:58
you've done?

Connecting with Jeremie Kubicek

42:59
Yeah. So, Amazon is the easiest. If you

43:01
want books, they're all there. Jeremy

43:03
Kubachuk, just look up look up the piece

43:05
index on all of my rest of my books

43:07
would be there. Um or Jeremy

43:09
Kubachuk.com. Chris, you might have to

43:11
put that in the show notes because it's

43:12
hard to spell. I have a weird spelling

43:14
my name. Uh but that's if you want to

43:16
know who I am from a a speaking uh side

43:19
and or uh connecting. And then um yeah,

43:23
take the five voices assessment. Just go

43:25
take five voices. Go have fun. Uh have

43:28
your wife take it. Uh have your

43:29
co-workers take it. It's super

43:31
interesting.

43:32
Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much

43:34
for sharing your wisdom and being with

43:36
us today. And I'm excited for people to

43:38
learn from you like I have been.

Podcast Closing

43:41
Awesome. Thank you, Chris. Thank you for

43:43
listening to this episode of the Servant

43:46
Leadership Podcast. If you enjoyed what

43:48
you heard, please give it a thumbs up

43:50
and leave a comment below. Don't forget

43:52
to subscribe and hit the notification

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43:58
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44:00
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44:02
content.