Generosity and Obedience

0:00
So I actually think that generosity is

0:03
not something that needs to start with

0:05
wealth.

0:06
It starts with obedience.

0:09
L I f like being generous with your

0:11
life, your labor, influence, finances,

0:14
and expertise. And that's something that

0:16
everybody can commit to.

Welcome Jeremy Taylor

0:24
Today on the servant leadership podcast,

0:26
we welcome Jeremy Taylor, the president

0:28
of the Tindale House Foundation.

0:29
Jeremy's story is one of remarkable

0:31
stewardship and growth. His grandfather

0:33
started Tindale House in the 1950s with

0:35
a simple mission to make the Bible more

0:37
accessible. And today, under Jeremy's

0:39
leadership, it has become the largest

0:41
independent Christian publisher in the

0:43
world. His work is deeply rooted in a

0:46
generational legacy of stewardship and

0:48
the mission to engage, equip, and

0:50
empower local leaders in global contexts

0:52
for gospel impact. Jeremy's leadership

0:55
journey is a powerful study in radical

0:56
generosity and the posture of obedience.

0:59
He shares insights on how generosity

0:01:01
doesn't start with riches, but with a

0:01:03
heart of service. He continues to

0:01:05
explain examples of ways to be generous

0:01:07
with your labor, influence, finances,

0:01:09
and expertise. Join us as we talk about

0:01:11
building a culture of generosity, the

0:01:13
importance of obedience, and how to

0:01:15
steward a family legacy that outlasts

0:01:17
you. All right, Jeremy, thank you for

0:01:20
being on the Servant Leadership Podcast.

0:01:21
Yeah, thanks, Chris. I'm glad to be

0:01:23
here.

Origins of Tindale House

0:23
How did this happen? Tinddale, tell us

0:27
more about it. So the story of Tinddale

0:29
really starts in the 1950s

0:32
when my grandfather Ken Taylor who had

0:36
10 children and really wanted his kids

0:39
to be able to read and understand and

0:41
love God's word the the Holy Scriptures.

0:45
But he found that his kids had a very

0:47
hard time understanding the text. The

0:50
only versions of the Bible that existed

0:51
in those days were the King James and

0:54
the American Standard Version. both very

0:56
dense, very sort of archaic language,

0:59
really difficult to understand for

0:02:01
anybody

0:02:02
uh in the modern age, but especially for

0:02:05
a child. And there's uh there's one

0:02:08
story that it might be uh it might be

0:02:10
apocryphal, but um but it might be true

0:02:13
that at one time my grandfather was

0:02:16
reading the the evening devotional for

0:02:19
the family and he got done reading with

0:02:21
one one passage and one one of his kids

0:02:24
said, you know, I have no idea what that

0:02:26
means. And so he said, well, this is

0:02:27
what this is what it means. And then one

0:02:29
of his daughters said, well, daddy, if

0:02:31
that's what it means, why doesn't it say

0:02:33
that?

Ken Taylor's Epiphany

0:34
Well, that was a little bit of an

0:35
epiphany moment for him um because he

0:38
thought God's word should be

0:41
understandable for people who are trying

0:43
to read it.

0:44
So, he spent his time on the commuter

0:47
train uh going from Wheaton to Chicago

0:50
every day. So, that's like what an hour

0:52
each way basically. And he would spend

0:55
that time writing out that evening's

0:57
Bible reading in language that he

0:59
thought his children could understand.

0:01:01
So it was like modern English for his

0:05:05
kids. And this was again the 1950s.

0:09:09
So

0:11:11
his his kids finally could understand

0:14:14
what the Bible had to say.

0:16:16
Wow.

0:16:16
So instead of asking, you know, what

0:18:18
does that mean? They could actually have

0:20:20
conversations with each other about the

0:22:22
meaning of the text. Well, this

0:24:24
radically transformed their family's

0:26:26
life because the kids finally could

0:28:28
understand and develop a genuine love

0:31:31
for God's word.

Birth of Living Letters

0:32
Well, over time, he continued to to do

0:36
this paraphrasing work and had had done

0:40
all of the New Testament epistles.

0:42
So, he put them all together into a book

0:44
form that he thought would be beneficial

0:46
for other families because it had been

0:48
so transformative for his own family.

0:51
and he took it to publishers and he was

0:52
the director of publishing at Moody

0:54
Press at that time. So he took it to

0:56
Moody, took it to Zandrean, a couple of

0:58
the other uh big publishers and

1:01:01
everybody said,

1:04:04
"No, we don't think there's a market for

1:06:06
this. We don't think there's any going

1:09:09
to be any interest in an unofficial

1:12:12
translation of the Bible." So thanks,

1:13:13
but no thanks. So this was, you know,

1:16:16
this was 1960, 1961. There was no

1:19:19
Amazon. There was no Ingram. There was

1:21:21
no self-publishing, print on demand

1:23:23
platform.

1:25:25
The only way to get a book published if

1:26:26
it wasn't going to be picked up by a

1:28:28
major publishing house was to start your

1:30:30
own publisher.

Founding Tindale House

1:31:31
Wow.

1:31:31
So that's what my grandparents decided

1:33:33
to do. They had no money. They had 10

1:36:36
kids. and the the idea of starting a

1:40:40
publishing venture based on nothing but

1:43:43
a crazy idea that maybe people might

1:46:46
like to read the Bible in modern

1:48:48
everyday English was pretty um scary

1:53:53
to say the least. But that's what they

1:56:56
did. They started a a publishing

1:58:58
company. They scraped what tiny little

2:00:00
amount of money they had together and

2:02:02
registered a business and they called it

2:05:05
Tinddale House Publishers named after

2:08:08
William Tinddale who was the first

2:10:10
person to translate the Bible into

2:13:13
modern English in the 1500s.

Making the Bible Accessible

2:17:17
Uh so that's what they were doing was

2:19:19
making the Bible understandable for a

2:21:21
modern audience in contemporary English.

2:24:24
So they named the company Tindle House

2:26:26
Publishers. The name of the book was

2:28:28
Living Letters. Again, it was the New

2:30:30
Testament epistles

2:32:32
written in modern everyday

2:34:34
understandable language. And they

2:36:36
published it. And it turned out that the

2:39:39
other publishers were right. There just

2:41:41
wasn't a huge market for it

2:44:44
until

2:45:45
Billy Graham got a hold of a copy of

2:48:48
Living Letters, the famous evangelist.

2:51:51
He sat down and read the whole thing in

2:53:53
one sitting. And he later said that it

2:56:56
did more to revitalize his personal

2:59:59
Christian faith than anything else that

3:01:01
he had ever read. This is Billy Graham.

3:03:03
Wow.

3:04:04
Having like rededicating his life to the

3:06:06
Lord uh as a result of what he read um

3:10:10
this version of the scriptures that was

3:11:11
super easy to understand. So he decided

3:14:14
that he wanted to give away copies of

3:15:15
Living Letters to people who called in

3:18:18
and asked for a copy. He was going to

3:19:19
give them away. uh anyone who called

3:21:21
into his television broadcasts, but he

3:24:24
insisted on paying a royalty of five

3:27:27
cents a copy to Tinddale House

3:30:30
publishers for the privilege of giving

3:31:31
away these resources. So, my

3:34:34
grandparents were pretty reluctant to

3:36:36
accept a royalty payment, but I think it

3:39:39
was actually Ruth Graham insisted that

3:41:41
there be some payment involved. And so,

3:44:44
they they agreed on 5 cents a copy. and

3:46:46
the Billy Graham Evangelistic

3:48:48
Association ordered 60,000 copies.

Billy Graham's Influence

3:51:51
Wow.

3:52:52
So that's $3,000.

3:54:54
Yeah.

3:55:55
This was 1962. Like that's real money.

3:58:58
But my my grandparents felt very

4:00:00
strongly that this was God's word and

4:02:02
any royalty payments that came in should

4:05:05
not be used to benefit their family,

4:07:07
should not be used even to reinvest into

4:10:10
the business, but should be given away.

4:12:12
So they committed to that. Well, a

4:15:15
couple of weeks later, maybe it was a

4:17:17
few months later, the Billy Graham

4:19:19
Evangelistic Association called back and

4:22:22
my grandparents assumed they were

4:24:24
calling to say, "Listen, we tried to

4:27:27
give these books away. Um, nobody wanted

4:29:29
them. We're sending you back 60,000

4:32:32
copies. Hope you have room in your

4:34:34
garage." But actually, they were calling

4:37:37
to say, "Not only did we give away all

4:39:39
60,000 copies, we went back to the

4:42:42
printer and ordered more." And sorry if

4:45:45
we got ahead of ourselves. Maybe we

4:46:46
should have asked permission, but we

4:48:48
went ahead and printed 600,000 copies

4:52:52
and have distributed all of those. So,

4:54:54
we're sending you a royalty check for

4:56:56
$30,000.

Commitment to Generosity

4:57:57
Oh my goodness.

4:58:58
This was 1963.

5:01:01
$30,000 could have easily bought a new

5:05:05
house which they desperately needed for

5:07:07
their 10 children uh living in the

5:10:10
Chicago suburbs through the wintertime

5:12:12
in a house that had no central heating.

5:14:14
They they could have used a house. It

5:16:16
could have paid for a new car, new

5:19:19
clothes for all the kids. Again, they

5:20:20
were very poor.

5:22:22
Could have paid for college education

5:23:23
for everybody. But they had already

5:26:26
committed, we are giving this money to

5:28:28
the Lord because it's not ours. it's not

5:30:30
ours to use on our family. It's not ours

5:32:32
to invest in our business. We're giving

5:34:34
this money away. And so they took that

5:37:37
$30,000 and started Tindo House

5:39:39
Foundation. And every penny of that

5:42:42
initial royalty payment was given away

5:44:44
through the foundation to other

5:45:45
Christian organizations around the

5:47:47
world. Well, over the next several

5:50:50
years, Living Letters actually did

5:52:52
become extremely popular. Somehow the

5:57:57
Graham Association giving away copies

6:01:01
in in God's weird upside down economy

6:04:04
led to more and more people wanting to

6:06:06
buy it from Christian bookstores.

6:09:09
And it became a best-selling book. And

6:11:11
meanwhile, my grandfather continued his

6:13:13
work paraphrasing additional portions of

6:16:16
scripture. So, Living Gospels was

6:19:19
published and then Living Books of

6:20:20
Prophecy and and the rest of the Bible.

6:23:23
In 1971,

6:25:25
the complete Living Bible was published.

6:28:28
Wow.

6:28:28
The Living Bible was the bestselling

6:30:30
book in America for three years in a

6:32:32
row. It sold millions of copies and

6:36:36
royalty money kept coming in and then

6:39:39
kept being given right back out through

6:41:41
the foundation.

Tindale's Growth and Impact

6:43:43
Fast forward to today, Tinddale is the

6:46:46
largest independent Christian publisher

6:49:49
in the world. We sell tens of millions

6:53:53
of of copies of not only the Bible but

6:56:56
many other kinds of Christian books.

6:00:00
Um tens of millions of dollars are

6:02:02
flowing in in revenue every year and

6:05:05
millions of dollars are going out

6:07:07
through the foundation to ministry

6:09:09
organizations all over the world. We

6:11:11
have a different structure now than than

6:15:15
we did uh in the early days. Um, so you

6:18:18
can't pay a royalty to yourself and and

6:19:19
so we don't have a royalty structure,

6:23:23
but more than half of the the proceeds

6:25:25
like the profits that are generated

6:26:26
through the successful publishing

6:29:29
operations are distributed to ministry

6:32:32
organizations globally through the work

6:33:33
of the foundation.

6:33:33
Wow.

6:33:33
So that's how Tinddale came to be. We

6:37:37
are really founded on a model of

6:40:40
commitment to radical generosity because

6:43:43
of the Bible's mandate that believers in

6:46:46
Christ, followers of Christ, live their

6:49:49
lives generously. That's how we've tried

6:51:51
to operate our business through the

6:53:53
years. That's how we've tried to operate

6:55:55
the foundation and that's how we try to

6:57:57
interact with and engage with leaders

7:00:00
all over the world.

Jeremy's Leadership Journey

7:01:01
Wow, that is extremely like inspiring. M

7:06:06
I mean that's just unbelievable when you

7:08:08
look at your grandparents and your

7:11:11
family that's been involved. Like that

7:13:13
probably puts a little bit of pressure

7:15:15
on your shoulders, right? Cuz you've

7:17:17
been on both sides now of Tinddale. You

7:19:19
you were on the publishing side for a

7:20:20
while. Now you lead the foundation side.

7:22:22
What is that journey been like for you

7:24:24
jumping in now into all of that?

Generational Legacy

7:29:29
Well, first of all, you're absolutely

7:30:30
right. It is a um it's a a

7:34:34
responsibility

7:36:36
that I feel every day, but it's a great

7:40:40
joy

7:41:41
and super fun actually to be associated

7:44:44
with this work.

7:45:45
The generational legacy is one that I'm

7:48:48
very well aware of and and it's one that

7:52:52
I'm grateful for.

7:53:53
Uh I've got a great team of uh staff

7:57:57
members helping on the foundation side.

7:59:59
Uh we've obviously got a a huge team of

8:02:02
people all across the country working on

8:04:04
the publishing side. We we say that we

8:07:07
work as hard as we can to make as much

8:09:09
money as we can to be as generous as we

8:12:12
can. So everything that we're involved

8:14:14
with at Tindell is all focused on this

8:18:18
commitment to giving resources away

8:21:21
and that's super fun. Like it's just

8:23:23
it's enjoyable. Uh, but it is a

8:27:27
responsibility and it's one that we take

8:29:29
very seriously.

Family Values and Generosity

8:30:30
As people look into Tinddale more, I'm

8:32:32
sure a lot of people listening are going

8:34:34
to look up things like Tinddale

8:35:35
financials and what does Tinddale give

8:37:37
to and stuff like that. When I started

8:40:40
looking into it, the generosity

8:41:41
component was unbelievable. I didn't

8:43:43
realize when we were setting this up how

8:45:45
generous Tinddale Foundation really is.

8:48:48
That also is a lot of pressure. You're

8:50:50
using all this money that God has

8:52:52
trusted you with. How do you think the

8:54:54
generosity bug, if you will, has been

8:57:57
passed down in your family? And how do

8:59:59
you think people could pass that on to

9:02:02
their kids and future generations? Like

9:04:04
it's been like you have a fire for it.

9:06:06
Yeah, that's super interesting in our

9:08:08
family actually. Uh because I didn't

9:11:11
when I was in college, um I didn't

9:13:13
really have any interest in or

9:15:15
expectation of a career at Tindale. Uh,

9:19:19
I took a job right out of college as the

9:22:22
intern in the editorial department at

9:24:24
Tinddale. Figured I would work for the

9:26:26
summer and then go somewhere and find a

9:28:28
real job. Um, and here I am coming up on

9:32:32
28 years later. Uh, still associated

9:35:35
with and now in leadership of this

9:36:36
organization that has been um, founded

9:39:39
and stewarded by my family through the

9:41:41
decades. So when I asked my kids

9:46:46
recently what they think our family

9:49:49
values are,

9:51:51
uh the first thing that they came up

9:53:53
with was generosity.

9:55:55
And it's not because my wife and I are

9:58:58
like amazing examples of personal

10:01:01
generosity.

10:03:03
We try to be as generous as we can and

10:05:05
and communicate that as a value to our

10:08:08
kids. So the fact that they identified

10:10:10
that as a family value, it's like super

10:11:11
affirming.

10:13:13
But that's a value that hasn't come from

10:15:15
us. It's come through us, from my

10:18:18
parents, from my grandparents, and now

10:21:21
that's something that we're passing on

10:23:23
hopefully to our kids.

10:25:25
So we've we've actually cultivated that

10:28:28
in a number of ways, trying to get our

10:31:31
kids involved in our personal family

10:34:34
generosity. Um, obviously I was invited

10:37:37
at a pretty young age to be involved

10:40:40
corporately organizationally at Tinddale

10:43:43
in the ministry of generosity that we

10:45:45
have as a company and as a foundation.

10:48:48
Uh, I joined the board of Tindle House

10:50:50
Foundation in 2005

10:53:53
when my grandfather died.

10:55:55
So I took his seat basically on the

10:57:57
family board. And so I've had a a a

11:02:02
really impactful opportunity myself

11:05:05
to be involved in this work long before

11:07:07
I was in any kind of active leadership.

11:10:10
And we've tried to get our kids involved

11:12:12
in um like travel to visit with some of

11:16:16
the organizations that we support. Uh

11:18:18
occasionally having meetings with some

11:20:20
of the organizational leaders. So,

11:22:22
communicating with our kids about this

11:25:25
family commitment to generosity, where

11:27:27
it comes from, why it's important, how

11:30:30
it fits in with our biblical mandate to

11:33:33
live open-handedly and and what that

11:36:36
means in the context of like kingdom

11:38:38
stewardship. It's

11:40:40
it's easy to talk about being generous

11:41:41
when it's not your money. Like,

11:44:44
we feel that as a family. This is

11:45:45
Tinddale's money that we're

11:47:47
distributing. It's it's not ours. It's

11:49:49
not the Taylor family money. It's um

11:52:52
it's the Lord's money and he's entrusted

11:54:54
that to us through Tindell. And so we

11:57:57
try to be wise stewards of that leaning

11:59:59
heavily on a a very involved very smart

12:03:03
global board

12:06:06
uh that makes the decisions for us. But

12:10:10
having our kids involved um across the

12:12:12
generations in this endeavor of radical

12:16:16
generosity has been um one of the most

12:19:19
rewarding parenting moments I think for

12:21:21
my wife and me that we could imagine.

Servant Leadership and Generosity

12:24:24
When we talk about servant leadership on

12:25:25
this podcast a lot of times stewardship

12:28:28
comes up, generosity comes up and just

12:30:30
overall servant leaders are probably I

12:33:33
would say more generously thinking than

12:35:35
others. People might listen to this and

12:37:37
think, well, Jeremy through Tinddale and

12:40:40
personally and all the stuff he's done,

12:41:41
yeah, they've given away millions of

12:42:42
dollars, but I'm in a position where I

12:44:44
can't give away millions of dollars. I

12:45:45
can't get involved in all the things

12:47:47
they're involved in. How do you

12:49:49
encourage people to flex their

12:50:50
generosity muscle wherever they are in

12:53:53
their servant leadership journey? So, I

12:56:56
actually think that generosity is not

12:58:58
something that needs to start with

13:00:00
wealth.

13:02:02
it. And when you look at the story of

13:04:04
Tinddale,

13:07:07
my grandparents didn't have any money.

13:08:08
They were committed to generosity long

13:10:10
before they had anything to be generous

13:12:12
with. So generosity doesn't start with

13:15:15
riches. It starts with obedience.

13:19:19
And that's something that everybody can

13:20:20
commit to whether you have a lot of

13:23:23
physical like material financial

13:25:25
resources

13:27:27
or not. You can be generous with your

13:30:30
lifestyle. You can be generous with your

13:32:32
time. Uh we talk about L if like being

13:36:36
generous with your life, your labor,

13:38:38
influence, finances, and expertise as um

13:42:42
kind of a paradigm of ways that you can

13:44:44
be generous. You've you've heard time,

13:46:46
talent, and treasure. There are lots of

13:48:48
ways to be generous, even if you don't

13:50:50
necessarily have a lot of money to be

13:52:52
financially generous. So that's what I

13:55:55
always tell people is you don't need to

13:57:57
worry about the resources that you're

14:00:00
trying to give away. That's ultimately

14:02:02
that's that's not even up to you.

14:05:05
It's the Lord who supplies the impact.

14:08:08
And the the the Lord is the one who's

14:11:11
entrusting you with the resources that

14:13:13
you're going to be giving away anyway.

14:15:15
Whether that's money, whether that's

14:17:17
time, whether that's relationships,

14:21:21
whether that's writing books. I mean

14:23:23
that we're we're a publisher. Like we we

14:26:26
interact with people who have a message

14:28:28
to share. Maybe they don't have

14:29:29
resources to share. So there's lots of

14:32:32
ways to be generous. But it starts with

14:34:34
obedience to the Bible's mandate that

14:37:37
followers of Jesus live in such a way

14:39:39
that they are open to and willing to and

14:42:42
indeed looking for opportunities to

14:44:44
share with others what they have.

Life Acronym for Generosity

14:47:47
Wow. I love that life acronym. labor,

14:50:50
influence, finances, and expertise. I I

14:53:53
think that's something

14:54:54
and I didn't come up with that, by the

14:55:55
way.

14:56:56
No, but I love that. I I hadn't heard

14:57:57
that. And I think it it makes it so

14:58:58
tangible. And I think there is this

15:00:00
beauty of of obedience and that being

15:03:03
what drives great servant leadership.

15:05:05
Uh as you think through all the things

15:07:07
that you've been able to get involved

15:09:09
in, people probably come here a lot

15:11:11
asking for money. You know, they hear

15:13:13
you're generous. There's tons of

15:14:14
ministries out there. How do you

15:17:17
identify the right servant leaders

15:18:18
partner with? How do you identify the

15:20:20
right organizations? Is it the same

15:22:22
ones? How does what does that process

15:23:23
look like?

Identifying Strategic Partnerships

15:25:25
Yeah, we we definitely have a lot of

15:28:28
those conversations where people learn

15:30:30
that Tindle House Foundation is this

15:32:32
grant-making organization and everybody

15:35:35
needs money in Christian ministry. So,

15:38:38
we have a lot of um a lot of

15:40:40
conversations where people are asking us

15:42:42
for that. Um, we also have a lengthy

15:45:45
application process that people go

15:48:48
through. Um, and so what I always tell

15:52:52
people is we're looking for evidence of

15:55:55
four things when we're reviewing

15:56:56
proposals, when we're having

15:58:58
conversations, when we're trying to

16:00:00
discern who are the people that we

16:02:02
should be forging strategic partnerships

16:04:04
with.

16:05:05
So, we're looking for evidence of first

16:07:07
of all a real need.

16:09:09
Secondly,

16:11:11
a strategy to actually meet the need.

16:14:14
Thirdly, evidence of strong

16:16:16
organizational leadership. And then

16:18:18
fourth, evidence of other partners.

16:22:22
And we can talk more about like each of

16:24:24
those individual aspects. But when you

16:26:26
you put all those things together,

16:29:29
that's what we're looking for when we're

16:31:31
trying to discern who are the servant

16:33:33
leaders that we should be engaging with

16:36:36
globally. Wow.

Mission and Impact

16:37:37
And we talk about our sort of mission

16:40:40
statement as a foundation is we're we're

16:43:43
not directly involved in publishing like

16:45:45
Tinder House Publishers, but we we look

16:47:47
to engage, equip, and empower local

16:50:50
leaders in global contexts for gospel

16:54:54
impact.

16:55:55
Wow. And it's by looking for evidence of

16:57:57
those four things that's how we go about

17:00:00
finding the people that we can engage

17:03:03
and equip and empower so that they in

17:06:06
turn can do that for others. And on and

17:09:09
on it goes. So there's this multiplying

17:10:10
effect where because we are trying to

17:13:13
elevate servant leaders, they then have

17:15:15
an opportunity to invest in other

17:17:17
servant leaders. There's a generational

17:20:20
effect. There's a multiplying effect.

17:21:21
And that's the scriptural model I think

17:24:24
of what servant leadership should be.

Qualities of Servant Leaders

17:26:26
Wow. When you think of servant

17:27:27
leadership just as a whole and it can be

17:29:29
related to that or just in general,

17:32:32
what else makes a great servant leader?

17:34:34
Like what are the things you're looking

17:35:35
for in your team as you are trying to

17:37:37
help them become better servant leaders?

17:39:39
What are the big drivers of servant

17:41:41
leadership?

17:43:43
I think the biggest driver, if you if

17:46:46
you want to call it that, is a

17:48:48
willingness to be obedient to Christ.

17:52:52
Jesus was a servant leader. And and so

17:56:56
when we act like servants in our

17:58:58
leadership roles, we're acting like

18:00:00
Jesus, which means we're acting like the

18:03:03
Lord. So that's part of what

18:06:06
sanctification is. That's part of what

18:08:08
disciplehip means. So servant leadership

18:12:12
and and engaging with leaders and

18:15:15
helping them to live out their full

18:17:17
calling as children of the Lord um is

18:21:21
part of how the church needs to be

18:24:24
engaging with the world.

18:26:26
So

18:28:28
so the main driver of that is really

18:31:31
just an attitude and a posture of

18:34:34
obedience. M

18:36:36
there are there are lots of tools that

18:38:38
we can give people to help them achieve

18:42:42
greater impact or greater material

18:44:44
success in their business. We can give

18:47:47
them training in how to be effective

18:50:50
entrepreneurs or how to interact with

18:52:52
employees in a way that builds company

18:55:55
culture.

18:56:56
There's there's no shortage of books

18:58:58
that have been written and and you're

18:59:59
involved in some of this work yourself.

19:01:01
Um, but it's starting with that posture

19:03:03
of obedience that I think is the real

19:05:05
secret to effective servant leadership.

Experience with Tindale Content

19:08:08
Yeah. One of the things that I'm a

19:11:11
little bit jealous or a lot jealous of

19:13:13
of you with is you are surrounded by

19:17:17
amazing content. You know, your whole

19:19:19
career you've been maybe not directly

19:21:21
poured into, but you've been right

19:22:22
alongside amazing content from the

19:24:24
beginning. Some of the stuff that

19:26:26
Tinddale has published are some of my

19:29:29
favorite and most influential books. And

19:30:30
I don't just say that like there are

19:32:32
just unbelievable books out there.

19:36:36
What were some of the things you learned

19:37:37
along the way, you know, as you're

19:40:40
rubbing shoulders with such great

19:41:41
content, great servant leaders, people

19:43:43
who have been obedient uh to the call?

19:46:46
What are some of the things that stand

19:47:47
out to you in your journey here?

Editorial Experience

19:49:49
So, I should say that I worked in the

19:50:50
editorial department at Tinddale for 20

19:52:52
years. started as an editorial intern uh

19:56:56
eventually became an editor working on

19:58:58
our Bible team and then ended up as the

20:00:00
managing editor for fiction. So I worked

20:03:03
with directly some of Tinddale's

20:06:06
best-selling fiction authors through the

20:08:08
years and that was really really fun.

20:13:13
Um, there's something kind of rewarding

20:16:16
about working on a manuscript that you

20:18:18
know is going to sell tens of thousands,

20:21:21
maybe hundreds of thousands of copies

20:23:23
because it's an author who's well known

20:25:25
and and well-loved in the industry. And

20:28:28
so getting to work with content that's

20:30:30
been shaped by somebody who's got a big

20:33:33
platform, a big voice is just really

20:36:36
fun. It's also kind of intimidating and

20:40:40
especially as a young editor when I was

20:42:42
working with some of these best-selling

20:44:44
authors and I was the one who had to

20:46:46
tell them, I'm not sure that this point

20:48:48
means exactly, you know, what you think

20:50:50
it does or this isn't going to land with

20:52:52
readers in quite the way that you uh

20:54:54
intend and then get to have that

20:57:57
negotiation with the author. And what do

20:59:59
I know? like I'm a 25-year-old editor

21:02:02
trying to figure out how to uh how to

21:04:04
make books even better than they already

21:06:06
are. Um so that's that was intimidating.

Humility in Leadership

21:10:10
Okay. One of the things that I learned

21:12:12
is the most effective authors

21:16:16
who are in many cases also the most

21:18:18
effective leaders are the ones who

21:20:20
understand that they have a need for an

21:24:24
editor. M

21:26:26
so no matter how perfect and important

21:29:29
and timely and biblical your message is,

21:34:34
if you understand that there's always a

21:36:36
way to make it slightly better and you

21:39:39
can engage with your publisher or your

21:41:41
editorial staff

21:44:44
from a posture of humility,

21:47:47
it it makes not only it makes the book

21:49:49
better, it makes the relationship

21:51:51
better, it makes the way readers

21:53:53
interact with the content better. It

21:55:55
makes the marketing better. Like

21:57:57
everything about it is improved when you

21:01:01
understand that

21:03:03
really it's it's a it's part

Stewardship and Humility

26:06
of

26:08
stewardship.

26:10
When when you you have a message that

26:12
you want to communicate to people in the

26:15
world and if you're lucky, you've got a

26:19
good readership, like a a solid platform

26:21
of people who want to read what you have

26:25
to write. But when you come about it uh

26:28
uh with that attitude of humility rather

26:31
than an attitude of

26:34
superiority or entitlement or something

26:38
like that. Um that's what I've learned

26:41
is the best leaders, best authors are

26:43
the ones who really do approach their

26:46
task with an attitude, a heart of

26:48
servantthood

26:51
and humility. And that's where impact

26:53
can really begin to grow.

Writing and Publishing Books

26:56
Yeah, it's interesting. And I know not

26:58
on the air, we talked about this a

27:01
little bit different, but um a lot of

27:03
people listening might think that

27:05
there's a book that God has put in their

27:07
heart or that there is a book that they

27:08
are just burning to write. They've got

27:10
some sort of knowledge. And there's

27:11
millions of books, millions of great

27:13
books, probably millions of not great

27:16
books out there. Um maybe more not great

27:18
books than great books. What do you do

27:20
to tell people like should they write a

27:22
book, should they not write a book? How

27:23
should people be thinking about that?

27:24
Because a lot of leaders might think,

27:26
well, this is servant leadership. I'm

27:27
giving away this knowledge that I feel

27:30
like has benefited me. Uh when the

27:33
reality is it it might not be the world

27:35
needing another book. It might be

27:36
something else. How do you encourage

27:38
people or discourage people in that

27:39
conversation?

27:41
Well, anybody who wants to write a book,

27:42
I would never discourage that.

27:45
Okay. uh of I I think the world needs

27:48
really good books. It needs really good

27:50
authors and it needs really good

27:53
readers. So we talk a lot about trying

27:55
to develop cultures of reading which is

27:57
increasingly difficult in a media

28:00
saturated environment globally. But the

28:02
world needs good books and it needs good

28:04
Christian books written by good

28:05
Christian leaders who have an

28:07
understanding of the theological

28:09
principles in the Bible and a really

28:12
good grasp of how to communicate those

28:15
things to readers in a winsome

28:17
engaging way that's entertaining or

28:21
that's compelling. So writers are

28:24
modern-day prophets

28:27
and we're looking for prophetic voices,

28:29
people who have a message that the

28:32
global church needs to hear. And that in

28:34
my opinion, I mean, no offense, we're on

28:37
a podcast. I think that takes place best

28:40
through the medium of books. Even today,

28:41
I love books.

28:44
Awesome. May your tribe increase. We we

28:47
love people who love books and readers.

28:49
So, anyone who thinks that they've got a

28:52
book in them, I would I would far be it

28:54
from me to say you should focus your

28:56
time on other things,

28:58
by all means, write the book.

29:01
Uh, write it badly and then engage with

29:03
an editor and clean it up and make it

29:06
good and make it pleasing and beautiful

29:09
and compelling.

Challenges of Publishing

29:11
That said, there's a big difference

29:13
between writing a book and publishing a

29:17
book. And just as difficult as it is to

29:19
get something from your brain onto a

29:22
page or into your computer, it's at

29:24
least that difficult to get it from your

29:28
own computer out into the world. So, in

29:31
an age where anybody can publish a blog

29:33
or anybody can start a Substack or

29:35
whatever, there's no shortage of

29:38
opportunities to get content out there.

29:39
But there are real shortages of

29:42
opportunities to get published

29:44
by a reputable publisher that can put

29:47
resources behind marketing and editorial

29:49
and design and type setting and

29:51
distribution, all the things that go

29:53
along with book publishing.

29:56
That's hard. It's really hard and it's

29:59
hard to get it's hard to like break into

30:02
the industry. It's hard to maintain

30:03
momentum even if you've had one

30:06
bestselling book. There's countless

30:08
examples even including in the Christian

30:11
world, including like in recent memory

30:13
of people who broke onto the scene with

30:15
a big bestselling book and then tried to

30:18
follow it up a year later and it just

30:19
didn't go anywhere.

30:21
Yeah.

30:21
And so it's difficult. Publishing is

30:23
difficult. Writing is difficult. That

30:24
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.

30:27
I think it should. I think it's really

30:31
important.

30:32
But um if you want to write a book,

30:35
do it.

30:35
If you want to get it published,

30:38
have realistic expectations about the

30:41
amount of time and effort and energy and

30:43
potentially money that it's going to

30:46
take to make that a reality.

Generosity in Business

30:49
Wow. So, we've talked a little bit about

30:52
generosity, a little bit about business

30:54
and the stuff that Tindel published and

30:56
did on the on the business side. A lot

30:58
of people listening to this might be

30:59
some might be running nonprofits, but a

31:01
lot might be running businesses and

31:03
generosity isn't a component of their

31:05
business. Uh, it's probably something

31:08
that they care deeply about, but the

31:10
thought of doing it tied to your

31:12
business is just next level. If if

31:14
Tinddale Publishing were to start again

31:16
today, I'm guessing you're of the

31:18
opinion leading the foundation that

31:20
there would be a foundation today. How

31:22
would you encourage businesses, other

31:24
business owners to be thinking about

31:26
foundations and generosity from their

31:28
business?

31:29
I would say a couple things about that.

31:31
First of all, I actually think it's

31:33
likely the case that more people are

31:36
more generous with their businesses than

31:38
most people are aware of.

31:39
And you can see examples of this in

31:41
every industry. There are there are

31:44
things that companies give away.

31:46
Sometimes it's because they're trying to

31:48
be uh they're trying to increase market

31:52
share or trying to increase customer um

31:55
appreciation of their product. But a lot

31:57
of times it's just because they're

31:59
trying to invest in a community. They're

32:01
trying to be generous with what they

32:02
have available. And maybe it's money,

32:05
but maybe it's not. Maybe it's time. Uh

32:08
maybe it's expertise. So I think people

32:13
do want to be generous and in in

32:16
our culture in America we have a culture

32:18
of generosity and I think partly that's

32:21
because of our our Christian heritage.

32:23
Partly it's because the Lord has really

32:26
blessed our nation and we have a lot of

32:28
resources and so we have the ability to

32:31
be generous.

32:33
So, I think I think that happens

32:36
probably more often than some people um

32:38
suspect.

32:42
That said, it it's pretty unusual for a

32:45
company to be owned by a nonprofit

32:47
foundation. And that's how Tindell has

32:50
been structured for um for many years

32:53
going back to 2001, I think it was, that

32:56
my grandparents gave the company to the

32:57
foundation

33:00
and we've we've reorganized since then.

33:02
um went through a merger in 2019,

33:04
but that's that's not an unheard of

33:06
structure, but it's a very unusual

33:07
structure.

33:09
My counsel to people who are thinking

33:12
about ways to be intentionally generous

33:16
from a business mentality is don't be

33:19
afraid of the complexity.

33:22
Be afraid of being disobedient.

33:26
God is very clear through the Bible that

33:29
people are to live generously. We see

33:32
many, many examples of commands given in

33:34
scripture to God's people to care for

33:36
those on the margins, to protect the

33:39
vulnerable, to be generous with those in

33:43
need, to uh make resources available for

33:46
those who don't have as much as you do.

33:49
That's a call to generous living. And

33:51
and we shouldn't be afraid to get into

33:53
the complexity of that. It's not

33:56
necessarily super easy,

33:59
but it's very simple. You give what you

34:02
have.

34:02
You give as much as you can. And when

34:05
you approach generosity from a an

34:08
obedience mentality rather than um

34:11
giving out of your excess, then I think

34:14
the Lord actually does bless that

34:18
and we've certainly seen that at

34:19
Tinddale. We've seen that with many of

34:20
our partners. Mhm.

Partnerships and Generosity

34:22
If there are people who are looking for

34:24
a like concrete ways, um this

34:25
potentially sounds a little bit self-

34:28
serving, but um we we actually invite

34:31
people to give through Tinder House

34:31
Foundation.

34:32
Oh, cool.

34:34
Uh because we have partnerships and

34:37
relationships with hundreds of ministry

34:39
organizations all over the world. M

34:41
if somebody has resources and wants to

34:44
be generous but doesn't necessarily want

34:47
to do the due diligence of figuring out

34:50
who's a good organization for me to get

34:51
involved with, who's a good leader for

34:54
me to develop a relationship with.

34:56
Uh most people don't want to go through

34:59
all the the time and energy and hassle

35:00
associated with setting up a foundation.

35:03
That's part of the reason why donor

35:04
adise funds are growing in popularity.

35:08
uh because people don't want to have to

35:09
go through all the rigmarole, but they

35:11
do want to be generous. Well, we provide

35:14
a super easy way that people who who

35:18
have material means and want to live

35:21
generously can uh can be generous with

35:25
what they have without having to go

35:26
through all the paperwork and the

35:28
research and the due diligence. So we we

35:31
we offer that as a service because we're

35:34
out there having meetings with all these

35:36
hundreds of leaders. We're out there

35:39
determining which are the most impactful

35:42
organizations

35:44
across a wide variety of Christian

35:46
enterprises.

35:47
We give grants in kind of six major

35:50
categories. Those would be compassion,

35:52
disciplehip, education, literature,

35:55
training, which is like leadership

35:57
development, and then local grants in

35:59
the Chicago area.

36:01
Uh because we want to be good neighbors

36:02
here in our own community. So if there

36:04
are people out there who who want to be

36:06
generous in the area of compassion,

36:09
humanitarian development and relief or

36:12
literature like locally Christian

36:14
publishing operations or leadership

36:17
development, closing the training gap in

36:19
theological education that we hear about

36:21
in places like Africa and Asia uh in the

36:24
majority world. We're a we're a great

36:27
conversation partner because we have

36:29
relationships with some of the top

36:32
organizations and leaders in all of

36:34
these different areas and we can make

36:36
recommendations to you or we can receive

36:39
donations and then add that to the

36:42
grants that we're already giving. Um so

36:44
we don't we don't need donations from

36:47
people. We don't rely on that. We're

36:49
we're self- sustaining. But we love to

36:52
partner with people who want to be

36:54
generous and then we can provide a

36:56
platform for them to do that. Well,

36:58
well, and we'll have to put for those

36:59
listening in the description, we'll put

37:01
a link where people can connect too cuz

37:03
I think some people will be really

37:04
interested even just to learn about the

37:06
six categories regardless of if they

37:07
jump in or not. One thing that strikes

37:10
me interesting and I I love how you talk

37:13
about obedience. It's it's refreshing

37:16
and also it's new but not new at all.

37:19
Right. It's it's straight from the

37:20
Bible. One one thing that people

37:24
listening might be thinking is

37:28
obedience is great, but it sounds like

37:31
everything has worked out really well.

37:33
Um, in that Tindel's just kind of like

37:36
it started really hard a couple

37:38
generations ago and now it's just up and

37:40
to the right. It's self- sustaining.

37:41
It's working 100% hit rate. And I know

37:44
that isn't the case. How do you deal

37:46
with the struggle of I'm trying to be

37:49
obedient, but right now around me

37:52
certain things look like they're not

37:53
working or this situation we thought

37:55
would be great is not great. How do you

37:57
deal with that? And how should people be

37:58
thinking about that?

Faith and Obedience

38:00
Well, that's the that's the

38:04
everpresent difficult reality of

38:08
certainly Christian ministry,

38:10
but I think most businesses, you look at

38:13
the statistics, I don't even know what

38:14
it is right now of the number of

38:16
businesses that fail in their first

38:18
year, it's like 90% or something.

38:20
Yeah. Um, it's hard and it's really hard

38:24
to to remain committed to faithful

38:26
obedience if you feel like God isn't

38:29
holding up his end of the bargain.

38:31
So, we read passages in scripture. One

38:33
of my favorite is um from Malachi 3:10

38:38
where it talks about if God says to the

38:41
people, "If you do what I've told you to

38:43
do, bring all the tithes into my

38:45
storehouse, fulfilling your obligation

38:47
of generosity, then I will open the

38:50
windows of heaven for you."

38:52
And it's this wonderful picture of of

38:56
amazing abundance.

38:59
And God says,"I will pour out a blessing

39:01
so great you won't have room to take it

39:03
in."

39:04
And then he says, "Try me. Put me to the

39:06
test and see if I won't do all that I

39:08
have promised that I would do."

39:10
So, we think of that and we kind of

39:12
think, we're tempted to think like,

39:14
"Okay, if if I'm obedient, if I'm

39:16
generous, then God is going to reward me

39:19
with all kinds of material wealth and

39:21
that hopefully allows me to be even more

39:24
generous." And the reality is it just

39:27
doesn't work that way most of the time.

39:30
And I think the reason for that is that

39:32
God is not promising material blessings.

39:35
He is promising spiritual blessings.

39:37
Open the windows of heaven. That's a

39:40
that's a portal to spiritual blessing,

39:43
not financial well-being. And the

39:46
reality is for for those of us who are

39:48
followers of Christ, who've accepted

39:50
Christ and the salvation that he offers,

39:54
the windows of heaven are already open.

39:56
We've already experienced those

39:58
blessings.

40:00
And

40:02
that doesn't always translate to

40:05
success on a balance sheet,

40:07
but it definitely always translates to

40:09
success when you're talking about

40:11
personal disciplehip.

40:13
So my my recommendation to people who

40:15
are kind of in the middle of the the

40:18
struggle and the difficulty of starting

40:21
a business or starting a ministry or

40:23
just trying to live faithfully

40:26
um as as a follower of Christ as someone

40:29
who's trying to pass on a legacy of

40:31
faithfulness to their children and their

40:34
children's children as has happened in

40:36
my family u my counsel is stay close to

40:40
the Lord

40:41
stay immersed in his word.

40:44
Don't ever let material

40:47
wealth pull you away from the promises

40:50
of scripture.

40:52
And I think the Lord does reward that.

40:56
Not through financial wealth, although

40:59
sometimes that is a reality, but he

41:02
rewards that through a life of faithful

41:05
committed service to him

41:08
and to others that results in blessings

41:11
that acrew not just to you, but to

41:13
everybody that you encounter.

41:15
And that's really the story of the

41:18
impact that Tinddale has had through the

41:19
generations. It's not that it's always

41:22
up and to the right.

41:24
Uh, I mean, we wish that were the case.

41:27
Publishing is hard. And just like most

41:30
businesses fail, most books fail. We we

41:33
don't break even on most of the books

41:34
that we publish.

41:36
Happily, we have some books that do

41:38
really well, and that provides the

41:40
platform and the marketing resources

41:42
that are needed for for the rest of our

41:44
portfolio,

41:46
but it's hard. Life is hard. Ministry is

41:48
hard. Faithfulness is hard. Uh but

41:51
you've you've got to stay true, stay

41:54
committed to what the Lord has already

41:57
promised through his word that he's

41:59
going to do in your life and the life of

42:01
others around you. That's what we've

42:03
endeavored to live out at Tinddale, in

42:06
our family, in our business um through

42:09
the partnerships that we've developed in

42:10
the foundation. And that's what we en

42:12
encourage and um and and exhort

42:18
other leaders that we engage with to do

42:21
as well.

Rapid Fire Questions

42:22
Wow, this is so good. Uh

42:26
yeah, I I I think I am learning a lot in

42:29
terms also of how to view generosity

42:31
through what you're talking about and

42:33
and just the overall stewardship message

42:35
is just uh I really appreciate this. Um,

42:39
I want to finish with 10 rapid fire

42:41
questions where I'll just ask you 10

42:42
questions and you say the first thing

42:44
that comes to mind.

42:45
All right.

42:45
I think one will be hard for you, but I

42:47
ask everyone the same 10 questions.

42:49
Okay.

42:50
Who's the first person you think of when

42:52
I say servant leadership?

42:55
Uh, probably my grandfather, Ken Taylor.

42:58
Five words that most describe you.

43:02
Uh, handsome, outgoing, uh, engaging,

43:04
compelling, and humble.

43:06
I love it. All right. This is the one

43:07
that might be hard for you. We ask

43:10
people favorite author or book. I don't

43:11
know if you're allowed to answer that.

43:15
Yeah, I should probably

43:15
The Bible.

43:17
I should probably not answer that. Yeah,

43:21
the Bible. What a copout answer. Um

43:22
people actually have asked me like who's

43:25
my favorite author that I've ever worked

43:27
with and I never answer that question.

43:29
Um for obvious reasons. It's like having

43:32
a favorite child. Everybody does, but we

43:33
don't admit it and we don't talk about

43:37
it. So, that's totally fair. Uh, what do

43:39
you like to do in your spare time?

43:41
Uh, anything outdoors. Uh, I love

43:44
running, cycling, uh, CrossFit related

43:46
fitness activities. Uh, I've been doing

43:48
mountain climbing with my dad and my

43:50
brother for the past several years. My

43:52
dad's got a goal of getting to the high

43:54
point of every state. Yeah.

43:56
Um, which in a state like Illinois is

43:59
not very interesting or challenging, but

44:00
um, but in some of the western states,

44:04
like that's a serious expedition. And so

44:05
we've enjoyed doing that together

44:07
and he's done a I mean I talked to him

44:08
he's doing a lot of them.

44:10
Yeah.

44:11
Uh like he's

44:13
he's well on his way.

44:15
If we succeed in our next one which is

44:19
Wyoming that will be his 49th.

44:19
Yeah. That's amazing. Uh favorite food?

44:23
Uh anything related to uh like Mexican

44:24
or Latin American.

44:27
Love it. What's a surprising fact about

44:28
you?

44:35
Um, a surprising fact is that I have run

44:36
multiple marathons, even though I don't

44:40
enjoy running. And I'm built more like a

44:42
weightlifter uh than a long-distance

44:44
runner. So, people are often surprised

44:46
when they find out that I'm actually a

44:47
marathoner.

44:51
Wow.

44:54
And, um, so I I do that, but I don't

44:56
enjoy it.

44:58
More questions on that later. Uh

45:01
favorite place you've been.

45:03
So this is an interesting one and people

45:06
often ask me like where's my favorite

45:09
place that I travel to and I usually say

45:12
it's wherever I was most recently.

45:15
So I just got back from Pakistan uh

45:17
about a week and a half ago. Um actually

45:19
left the day before they declared

45:20
themselves to be in a state of open war

45:23
with Afghanistan.

45:26
Wow. Um, but I loved visiting Pakistan

45:29
and interacting with the people there,

45:31
finding out the the ways that God is

45:34
active in that culture. Uh, it's an

45:35
amazing place.

45:39
Is there anywhere in the world you want

45:41
to go that you haven't been to yet?

45:44
Oh, absolutely.

45:47
Where's top place?

45:50
I would say

45:52
um the top of Mount Kilamanjaro.

45:54
Whoa, that is a high point. Um, what's

45:56
the best advice you've ever received?

45:59
In what context?

46:00
Any context.

46:01
Just best advice you feel like you've

46:04
received. Any context.

46:06
Okay. How about um don't take yourself

46:08
too seriously.

46:10
I like that. All right. And finally,

46:13
podcast on servant leadership. Uh, a lot

46:16
of people are listening to this probably

46:18
because they want to hear your story or

46:21
Tinddale's story. Why should they care

46:24
about servant leadership?

46:27
Because that's the model that Jesus gave

46:31
through his earthly ministry. Because

46:34
servant leaders are the most effective

46:36
leaders in business, in ministry, in any

46:38
context, even in your community or in

46:42
your family.

46:45
When you live a life of servantthood,

46:47
you are acting like God acts in the

46:49
world. And there's no better way to act

46:51
than that. So servant leadership, it's

46:54
the best model. And we've seen that even

46:56
in secular contexts. It's the most fun.

46:58
It's the most rewarding. and it's the

47:01
only way to live if you're going to

47:03
pursue a biblical model of what

47:06
leadership should look like.

Closing Thoughts

47:09
Wow. Well, thank you for being on the

47:11
podcast. One last thing I'm wondering if

47:13
you can leave us, and I don't really ask

47:16
us this, but if people do want to engage

47:18
in this journey of generosity of what

47:20
Tindel's been a part of, what you guys

47:22
are encouraging other people to do,

47:24
where should they go? What should they

47:26
do?

47:29
Well, I I love the term that you just

47:31
used, journey of generosity. That's

47:34
actually a program of a partner of ours

47:37
called Generous Giving and they have an

47:39
international related organization

47:41
called Generosity Path. And they take

47:44
people on what they actually call

47:47
journeys of generosity where they'll

47:50
walk you through the scriptural mandates

47:52
to live generously and provide some

47:54
really practical tools and examples of

47:56
how you can do that in your own life, in

47:58
your own business, in your own

48:00
organization. Um, so I always encourage

48:03
people to uh to look up generous giving

48:06
generosity path. Look up Tinddale. I

48:09
mean, I'm always happy to have

48:11
conversations with people. Um, I try to

48:13
make myself available to have meetings

48:16
or conversations where we can talk about

48:19
not necessarily ways that we can be

48:21
generous with you,

48:24
but uh, although we we certainly have

48:26
those conversations a lot, too. But if

48:29
there are people in your audience who

48:31
are interested in exploring ways that

48:34
they can be more intentionally and

48:36
strategically generous with what they

48:39
have, I would I would welcome a

48:41
conversation. So,

48:43
uh, you can go to our website, you can

48:45
send me an email, um, reach out to you.

48:47
You've got contact information for me.

48:49
Uh, but we we love to engage with

48:52
people. We love creating and fostering

48:54
cultures of generosity around the world.

48:56
And if there are ways that we can help

48:58
other people get involved in this work,

49:01
it's rewarding. It's fun. And um and we

49:03
we want to help others experience the

49:06
same kind of joy that we've experienced

49:09
through our ministry of radical

49:11
generosity.

49:13
Yeah, that's so good. Well, I'm excited

49:15
for people to follow up and and learn

49:17
more and maybe flex the generosity

49:19
muscle for the first time. or maybe

49:21
they're just listening to this and feel

49:24
like I've been God's put something on my

49:26
heart and I just need to be obedient and

49:29
lean into what that is. So, thank you

49:31
for joining and sharing your wisdom.

49:33
Absolutely. It's been a pleasure.

49:35
Thank you for listening to this episode

49:37
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If

49:39
you enjoyed what you heard, please give

49:41
it a thumbs up and leave a comment

49:43
below. Don't forget to subscribe and hit

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49:47
update. Be sure to check out the

49:49
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49:51
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49:53
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