Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast we welcome Robby Baehr, the CEO of Movieguide. Movieguide serves more than eighty million families by helping them decide what to watch based on their reviews. Robby’s family has been in Hollywood for a century, and after a career in investment banking in London, he felt called back to help lead Movieguide into the future. Join us as Robby shares the leadership lessons he’s learned from Hollywood’s most influential executives and talks through the challenges of raising kids well in a media-saturated world.
Episode Transcript
Radical Conversion Story
0:00
his radical conversion to Christianity
0:01
when someone challenged him to uh read
0:04
the Bible and tell him what was wrong
0:06
with it and he uh said okay I’ll read
0:09
the short section of the New Testament
0:10
and he became a Christian and that one
0:12
act changed the course of my family’s
0:14
life my my mom came to Christ my
0:17
grandfather came to Christ you know all
0:19
of us got to walk with faith because of
0:21
that I got to actually meet that person
0:23
it was an incredible experience
Podcast Introduction
0:31
Today on the Servant Leadership Podcast,
0:33
we welcome Robbie Bear, the CEO of Movie
0:35
Guide. Movie Guide serves more than 80
0:38
million families by helping them decide
0:40
what to watch based on their reviews.
0:42
Robbie’s family has been in Hollywood
0:44
for a century, [music] and after a
0:46
career in investment banking in London,
0:47
he felt called back to help lead Movie
0:49
Guide into the future. Join us as Robbie
0:52
shares the leadership lessons he’s
0:53
learned from Hollywood’s most
0:54
influential executives and talks through
0:57
the challenges of raising kids well in a
0:59
media saturated world.
Welcoming Robbie Baehr
1:02
Robbie, thank you for joining the
1:03
Servant Leadership Podcast.
1:05
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
1:06
I’m excited to be on.
Robbie’s Journey to Movie Guide
1:07
This is awesome. Tell me about your
1:09
journey to leading Movie Guide. Okay,
1:12
that’s a great question and might
1:14
[laughter] might be a little longer than
1:15
you want, but um okay, so my family has
1:18
actually been in Hollywood a hundred
1:20
years this year. So my grandparents were
1:23
famous actors in the black and white
1:25
era. If you’ve seen Turner Classic
1:26
movies, you’ve most definitely seen
1:28
their content. Uh my grandfather was
1:30
most well known for his westerns. He was
1:32
a uh the a cowboy star back in the day.
1:35
And my grandmother’s in the first
1:36
talking picture. Um and my dad, he made
1:39
movies. He made some horrible movies
1:41
with [laughter] Oliver Stone. Don’t
1:43
watch those. But he had a radical
1:45
conversion to Christianity when someone
1:47
challenged him to uh read the Bible and
1:50
tell him what was wrong with it. And he
1:52
uh said, “Okay, I’ll read the short
1:54
section of the New Testament.” He became
1:55
a Christian. And that one act changed
1:58
the course of my family’s life. My my
2:01
mom came to Christ, my grandfather came
2:03
to Christ. You know, all of us got to
2:04
walk with faith because of that. Um I
2:07
got to actually meet that person. It was
2:08
an incredible experience. But um so I
2:11
kind of grew up in this Hollywood family
2:13
in this Hollywood home. And uh so as any
2:16
kid who grew up in a Hollywood home, I
2:18
thought I’m going to go into finance.
2:20
[laughter]
Transition to Finance and Ministry
2:21
My Just kidding. My parents had no
2:24
understanding of of finance at all. But
2:26
I actually ended up working in
2:27
investment banking. I did mergers and
2:28
acquisitions. I lived in London. And
2:30
then uh I just felt this call of God to
2:33
come back to work in in ministry. And
2:36
so, uh, I came back and I started
2:39
working for this organization called
2:41
Movie Guide. And about six years ago, I
2:43
became CEO, uh, of Movie Guide. And so,
2:46
I just love that experience. And it was
2:49
one of those things where God got a hold
2:51
of me and I wanted to make a difference
2:53
in this world through this medium that
2:55
shapes the way people think and dream
2:57
and what they dream to do. and uh and so
3:00
he called me back into this industry
3:02
that I thought I was escaping by the
3:04
opposite area you know of finance but uh
3:07
it just felt that call back you know and
3:08
it’s been amazing it’s been a great
3:10
experience so
Origin of Movie Guide
3:10
why why did Movie Guide even get started
3:13
like what was the premise of it
3:15
okay so here here’s the the back story
3:18
on that so during uh the 1920s actually
3:22
Hollywood was incredibly debauched okay
3:25
so they had movies with like 13 minutes
3:28
of nudity you know, with Hedi Lamar, uh,
3:30
it was just really debached. And so
3:32
these four churchmen came to Hollywood
3:35
and they said, “You got to stop.” And
3:36
they said, uh, they tried to convince
3:39
him like, “Hey, how many empty seats do
3:40
you want in the movie theater?” And so
3:42
they were able to change Hollywood from
3:44
basically 1930 to about 1965
3:49
that every movie that was made was broad
3:51
audience and every movie was clean.
3:53
Okay? And it actually it didn’t mean
3:55
that they didn’t deal with tough topics,
3:57
you know, like Bridge over the river
3:58
core or things like that, but they dealt
4:00
with topics in which they didn’t glorify
4:02
crime. They didn’t glorify what we would
4:04
call sin, you know, as Christians or
4:06
whatever. They showed evil for evil and
4:08
they showed good for good.
Hollywood’s Shift and Movie Guide’s Role
4:10
What happened was that the church
4:12
thought that it was doing so well that
4:14
they actually decided to stop funding
4:15
it. They were like, “Hey, Hollywood,
4:17
it’s taken care of. It’s doing so well.
4:19
We don’t need to support it.” And
4:21
actually the head of Fairmont, who was
4:23
not a Christian, he said, “Hey, Sam
4:25
Engles,” he said, “If you remove the
4:26
soul from the meat, the meat is going to
4:28
rot.” And so within three years, it went
4:30
from a 100% broad audience to the first
4:33
X-rated film. It went from The Sound of
4:35
Music to the first Sykes and Satanism
4:38
film. And so the whole nature of the
4:41
industry transformed. So my dad had this
4:44
radical conversion experience. He had
4:45
made movies. uh he got called down to
4:48
make the line in the wardrobe the
4:50
animated movie if you ever saw that it
4:52
uh got an Emmy award had huge amount of
4:55
viewership and uh he thought wow how can
4:59
I how can I shape this industry so he
5:01
met the guy who had been the head of the
5:03
Protestant film office and so we
5:06
inherited those files and he said hey I
5:08
want to change this industry the average
5:11
movie in Hollywood takes 13 years to
5:13
make if you look at uh the second Top
5:15
Gun was about 19 years to be able to
5:17
make that. The fourth Indiana Jones,
5:20
which probably didn’t need to be made,
5:21
[laughter] it took 24 years to be able
5:23
to make that. You know, I think Avatar
5:25
was like 18 years. So, it’s a very slow
5:27
process. So, he’s like, “Hey, how can we
5:28
make an impact?” You know, the movie
5:30
when he made line in the witch of the
5:31
wardrobe, it took 26 years to be able to
5:32
make that film. So, I was like, “Hey,
5:34
how can we make an impact? How can we
5:35
shape that?” And so, that is actually
5:37
where movie guide started. So, my father
5:39
actually started Movie Guide.
Movie Guide’s Mission and Impact
5:41
Um, and so that was even part of the
5:43
call when I was working overseas or
5:45
whatever. He’s like, “Hey, can you can
5:46
you help us? Can you use that gifting
5:49
that God’s given you to bring that
5:51
business knowledge back and and impact
5:53
uh the ministry and help it?” So, uh
5:56
Movie Cats got started with that premise
5:57
of like, hey, could we institute some of
6:00
these things at the Protestant film
6:01
office? Can we transform culture again?
6:04
You know, um and so we’ve kind of seen
6:07
that and and for for those who don’t
6:09
know, Movie Guide kind of does these two
6:11
two big aspects. One is in that vein is
6:14
it reviews all movies but from a
6:16
Christian perspective on how it affects
6:17
kids at different stages of development.
6:19
So 82 million families in America use
6:22
our service to determine what they watch
6:23
about one in three parents.
6:25
And so we look at it 150 different
6:26
criteria on you know how a kid will be
6:29
affected. And then the other element is
6:31
that we work with the studios and we do
6:32
that similar thing the broadest film
6:34
office does where we say hey how many
6:36
empty seats do you want in the in the
6:37
box office? And so we’ve done this
6:40
economic analysis where we found that
6:42
hey the less sex you put in a movie the
6:43
more money you make. The less violence
6:45
the more profitable. I can actually tell
6:46
you how much every effort will cost you
6:48
at the box office. And so through that
6:51
we’ve seen that when we started 82% of
6:53
movies were all rated. Last year was
6:54
30%. When we started only one movie had
6:57
a positive reference to Christianity.
6:58
Last year was over 60%. So we’ve seen a
7:00
huge impact and change just with that
7:03
fundamental premise of first of like hey
7:05
if you do good you’ll do well right? If
7:08
you do do the right thing, people want
7:09
to be able to see the good. If you look
7:11
at the top 10 streaming content last
7:13
year, eight of them were family-friendly
7:16
content. That’s what people want to see.
7:17
The myth is that people want to see kind
7:20
of sketchy, gratuitous, all that stuff.
7:22
That’s actually not what they want to be
7:23
able to see.
Family-Friendly Content Demand
7:24
And so really for us, a lot of it is
7:27
kind of peeling back that curtain to be
7:29
able to say, “Hey, look, this is what
7:30
people want. This is what the consumer
7:31
wants. They want the good. They want to
7:33
see the good.” And so we we get to kind
7:35
of do that behind the scenes every day.
7:37
and uh kind of walk with these people
7:39
that we’ve known, you know, and grown up
7:41
with all my all my life, you know, and
7:44
and meet with them and talk to them and
7:47
encourage them on this idea of faith in
7:50
there. So,
Profitability of Family-Friendly Movies
7:51
wow, that I’ve never thought of the the
7:54
profit that could come from a
7:56
family-friendly movie. In a lot of ways,
7:59
[clears throat]
8:00
um, the ratings are going down, but
8:02
there’s a lot of, uh, I’d say confused
8:05
messaging that seems to be popping up in
8:08
movies where, um, it might be
8:10
familyfriendly, but it’s not
8:12
kid-friendly. Uh, how do you how do you
8:15
deal with that and how do you see that
8:16
play into it? Because it feels like
8:18
there’s a lot of like underlining
8:20
messages that Hollywood is trying to put
8:22
into movies that are are maybe
8:24
unnecessary. You know, that is a great
8:26
point and I think that uh it kind of
8:28
breaks down into different areas. So,
8:31
the most popular family movies are still
8:34
the ones that are broad audience that
8:36
don’t have any kind of weird messaging
8:38
in there, [laughter]
8:39
but you’re right, there have been family
8:41
movies that have very clearly like kind
8:43
of assault the ideas of the family uh
8:47
with some of the uh content that they
8:49
put in there. I would say that those
8:52
uh like our research shows that like
8:53
they just don’t do well because that’s
8:55
not what the family wants to see. Like
8:57
no matter where you stand on the
8:59
political aisle or the faith aisle, like
9:01
statistically people who have kids tend
9:04
to be more religious and more
9:05
conservative. Uh there’s a really
9:07
popular and uh amazing researcher called
9:10
Dr. Fagan who does sociological research
9:13
and there’s a ridiculous amount of
9:15
evidence on this that it just tends to
9:16
be that if you’re going to have kids,
9:18
you’re going to be more conservative.
9:19
you’re going to be more more religious
9:20
on these things. And so they don’t want
9:22
to be able to see that kind of agenda
9:24
styled uh stuff in the first place. And
9:26
so even within that the content that
9:29
does better, I mean, look at
9:30
even the last couple years on Disney
9:32
where people have not gone to that
9:33
content, right? Because families don’t
9:35
want to be able to see that. If you
9:37
think about like for I don’t know if you
9:38
have kids as well, but like in our kids’
9:41
generation, it really is like
9:43
illumination that they care more about
9:44
the Despicable Mi and the you know Mario
9:47
Brothers than they do necessarily about
9:48
the Disney content even though like when
9:50
we grew up it was all about the Disney
9:52
content, you know, and I think in a way
9:54
part of that is because they lost a
9:56
little bit of their way of like the
9:57
stuff that they put in there.
Hollywood’s Messaging Challenges
9:59
Um, and so I think that the audience
10:00
doesn’t want that. But on a another side
10:02
that I think is is really interesting is
10:05
I think that on the faith side uh you
10:08
know they can kind of I I think both
10:10
groups see people as this monolithic
10:12
group. So I think the faith kind of sees
10:14
Hollywood as like oh they’re evil and
10:16
they’re coming up with these industry
10:17
agendas to kind of shape culture, right?
10:19
And I think that the Hollywood thinks
10:20
like okay they see church as like you
10:23
know the old Saturday life church lady,
10:25
you know what I mean? But a lot of them
10:27
is actually they just don’t know. And so
10:30
there are I do think there is a set of
10:31
people in every every aspect that kind
10:34
of has sinister agendas to do their
10:35
thing. Um, but I think that in large
10:38
portion a lot of what we do is we just
10:40
sit in there and we talk with people and
10:42
I will tell you like we are in there
10:45
with the head of of pretty much almost
10:47
every major studio um and have talked
10:50
with them and sat with them and a lot of
10:52
it is not like so much a oh it’s like a
10:55
sinister agenda as much as like oh they
10:57
don’t know like I I was talking to a
10:59
very successful
11:01
guy in the kids space who’s done
11:03
billions of dollars of kids stuff and he
11:05
was about to do a TV show and put like a
11:09
trans character in it. And I was just
11:10
like, hey, you know, this is going to
11:12
offend the audience. This is not what
11:14
they what they want. He’s like, oh,
11:16
really? Like, I don’t understand why.
11:18
And it’s like a lot of it is just kind
11:19
of explaining to them
11:21
in the process of, oh, this is where uh
11:25
where this, you know, faith tradition
11:27
comes from, what people care about uh
11:30
deeply. And so a lot of our thing is
11:32
actually just one is kind of like
11:34
revealing the myths
11:36
that society tells like sex cells or
11:38
things like that and the other is saying
11:41
hey this is what it is that maybe they
11:43
don’t know you know I I was at a major
11:46
studio and u I’m not going to say the
11:49
one you they might have an animal in
11:51
there you know thing but one of the
11:53
executives like just asked me like hey
11:56
would you be willing to kind of tell me
11:57
about Christianity I’ve always wanted to
11:58
know but been afraid to ask
11:59
I was able to just talk about it and
12:02
you’d think okay modern America like
12:04
people must have heard that
12:05
but a lot of places and a lot of things
12:08
people just don’t know and so I think
12:10
that
Discussing Faith in Hollywood
12:11
uh I think if people are willing to kind
12:12
of have the discussion and just walk
12:14
with people and talk with people we can
12:16
you know obviously
12:17
yeah it’s probably cheesy to say but
12:19
learn a lot more from each other in that
12:21
process but we we just see incredible
12:23
opportunities to walk with people and
12:25
talk with people about faith and a lot
12:27
of it is is just people people don’t
12:29
know it’s kind revealing that and
12:30
talking through that, you know,
12:32
in there. But
Leadership Insights from Hollywood
12:34
it’s interesting. We talk a ton about
12:35
servant leadership on the show and
12:38
you’re in a position talking to some of
12:40
the most influential leaders in
12:42
Hollywood all the time, uh, these heads
12:44
of studios. What have you learned about
12:46
leadership in and how has your view of
12:49
leadership changed over the last six,
12:51
seven years since you’ve been leading
12:53
Movie Guide and actually talking to
12:55
people that in conversations that have
12:58
cultural influence and impact?
Truth and Leadership
13:00
You know, that is actually a really
13:03
great question. Now I see why why you
13:05
[laughter] do what you do. Um, I think
13:07
the the thing is that it is really
13:10
really interesting because if you think
13:12
about the guys who are running these
13:13
major studios like they are the
13:17
merchants of cool, you know, like they
13:20
have access to the people that people
13:22
really want to be able to know. like we
13:24
were just um we were just at a thing
13:27
with Stephen Spielberg and Ryan Gosling
13:29
and and all of these kind of uh you know
13:32
the Rock and like all of these things
13:33
that people are like these are the
13:35
people people want to be able to know
13:37
and if you think about it like they have
13:38
to play and deal with all of these
13:40
things from the personalities to the
13:42
fame to the thing to be able to in the
13:44
middle of it find the signal and the
13:46
noise
13:47
you know um I think that one of the
13:49
things I’ve learned is
13:52
is how valuable and important it is at
13:56
to when meeting with these leaders is to
13:58
speak truth, you know,
14:00
because so many people at the level of
14:02
leadership want to be kind of sickantic,
14:05
you know, like say whatever like
14:07
somebody wants to be able to hear, you
14:09
know, and I remember we were with the
14:11
the head of a major studio, an
14:14
incredible man, um who ran uh Warner
14:18
Brothers for a while, and he he said to
14:21
us and he was just like, “Hey, I wish
14:23
would have been harder on me about that
14:24
movie.
14:25
You know, it was a movie that he came
14:26
out with that was not a good movie. You
14:28
know, it was not one that we would agree
14:30
with and probably your audience would
14:31
have agreed with.
14:32
But he’s just like, I wish you would
14:33
have been harder on me about it, you
14:36
know. And I think that uh I think for
14:39
any leader,
14:40
the hardest thing is kind of discerning
14:42
the signal and the noise in the mix of
14:44
it because there is so much noise. And I
14:47
think that in Hollywood, like part of
14:49
our incredible impact is the fact that
14:52
like we just walk in truth. Like we walk
14:54
with love and truth. Like they because
14:57
we’re someone who’s been in there for
14:58
three generations, they know us. We walk
15:01
with them. We’ve been to their birthday
15:02
parties and we’ve cried and we laugh
15:04
with them. They know us, right? They
15:06
trust us on that. But it’s also not only
15:08
is it the love, but they know that like,
15:10
hey, we’re gonna talk truth with them.
15:12
You know, we’re going to be
15:13
straightforward with them. We’re going
15:14
to be honest with them. And I think
15:15
that’s a really important element of of
15:18
leadership, right, is that ability to be
15:21
able to accept and take truth. Um, a
15:23
book I really really enjoy and you know
15:25
there’s so many different books from
15:27
that that space. I mean, I’m sure you
15:29
probably read the Aigger biography. You
15:30
know, that was kind of interesting. Um,
15:32
I actually worked for Disney for a
15:33
little while. Uh, did Pirates of the
15:35
Caribbean and Enchanted and Dan in real
15:37
life and stuff.
Leadership and Wisdom
15:38
But
15:39
I think that uh I really like the No
15:41
Rules rules. If you read that from
15:43
Netflix, Reed Hastings,
15:45
um I think that’s kind of a very
15:47
interesting kind of style, but again,
15:49
part of it is like being able to garner
15:52
the truth. And I think that’s an
15:53
important of any leader is is basically
15:55
discernment, you know, is is wisdom. You
15:57
know, it’s like the proverb says like
15:59
pray for wisdom. Pray for wisdom. You
16:01
know, I’m sure you do it. I pray every
16:02
night for wisdom. But it’s being able to
16:05
hear that, you know, I I read an
16:07
interesting thing about Tim Cook like
16:09
that he will regularly for lunch just
16:11
randomly sit with people uh you know who
16:14
might be multiple levels down on there
16:16
because you have to be able to hear that
16:18
signal and the noise. You have to be
16:19
able to hear the truth in it. And I
16:21
think that one of the things that a lot
16:23
of those guys are really good at and
16:26
when they’ve made mistakes is that they
16:28
weren’t good at that was being able to
16:30
hear that signal in the noise when they
16:32
are the merchants of cool and they have
16:34
all the fame and the glitz and the
16:35
glamour things around them be able to
16:38
say hey no this is what matters
16:40
you know um and so I think that that uh
16:44
is a deep impression of knowing an
16:47
importance of like hey what matters and
16:49
I think that Um, you know, uh, I heard a
16:53
really fascinating sermon about humility
16:56
that it’s not necessarily like graveling
16:59
in a sense.
Humility in Leadership
17:01
It’s just thinking about yourself less,
17:04
you know, and I think that from a
17:05
missional standpoint, especially like
17:07
for Christian leadership or whatever,
17:09
it’s not so much about you being like,
17:11
you know, like, oh, on your knees at all
17:14
times or whatever and just being like,
17:15
oh, everybody’s so much better or
17:16
whatever. It’s it’s more just like, hey,
17:19
you’re thinking about the mission first,
17:20
you know what I mean? You care about
17:21
your employees. You care about the
17:23
people you walk with and you work with,
17:24
you know, than it is about like kind of
17:27
sniveling or graveling or anything like
17:28
that in that and what we’ve often
17:30
thought of of humility.
17:32
And I think that that’s important from a
17:34
leadership standpoint of like, hey, you
17:35
have to stand your ground.
17:37
You’ve got to be a person of character
17:38
in it. You’ve got to walk with with deep
17:41
well of strength.
17:43
But the point is, it’s not about you. It
17:45
never has been about you. And I think
17:46
great leaders are ones who make it about
17:48
the mission first, you know, and that’s
17:50
part of the humble leadership is being
17:52
able to walk in that. I think one thing
17:54
about Hollywood kind of teaches you is
17:56
that
17:56
it’s a world where there a lot of people
17:59
who will say anything because they want
18:01
to be next to the celebrity or whatever.
18:03
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
18:04
And it’s like, okay, well actually the
18:06
people who make it through
18:07
are the people who are willing to like
18:09
have that humility where they care more
18:11
about the thing, but they’re willing to
18:13
speak truth and walk in truth. You know
18:15
what I mean? on that.
Balancing Art and Profit
18:16
Yeah. How do you think people in
18:19
Hollywood are balancing the having great
18:21
movies that speak truth and encourage
18:24
culture in the right direction versus
18:26
just a film that makes money or they’re
18:28
joining something because of a certain
18:30
director or something? Cuz there’s a lot
18:32
of movies that you’re like gosh that
18:33
just shouldn’t have been made, right?
18:35
Like [laughter]
18:36
and you guys watch probably a thousand
18:38
plus movies a year, right?
18:40
So there there are,049 movies that come
18:42
out just from the major like services.
18:44
So, the five major studios and there’s
18:47
17,000 television programs. So, there’s
18:48
a lot a lot of content and there are
18:50
You guys watch all of it?
18:51
We watch a lot of it. I can tell you a
18:54
huge portion of that we watch.
18:55
Wow.
Family Movies Fund Hollywood
18:56
But the thing is that uh you’re right.
18:58
There are times where you just like
18:59
scratch your head and you’re just like
19:01
why are they making this movie? You know
19:03
what I mean? Um and there’s certain
19:07
there are certain things to that, right?
19:09
So, like we kind of talked about at the
19:11
beginning, Family Movies pretty much
19:13
fund all of Hollywood. Okay? So, Mario
19:15
Brothers made more money than
19:17
Oppenheimer and Barbie combined.
19:20
Okay? So, like Toy Story will help fund
19:22
Disney. You know what I mean? The
19:24
Minions helps fund Universal. So, really
19:26
like those are kind of the backbone
19:28
things of Hollywood to kind of make it.
19:31
But there are times in which they will
19:33
make movies for different reasons. So,
19:36
um, for example, Scorsesei, like
19:39
Scorsesei has never made money on any of
19:41
the movies. If you ran an analysis, he
19:43
is not a good bet for any way to be able
19:46
to make money on his movie. I thinkow
19:48
I think out of all of his movies, I
19:49
think only one made. It was like the
19:51
kids movie about the kid in France or
19:52
whatever that made money. Every other
19:54
one like he is a money loser on that.
19:57
But the thing is that they will do it
20:01
because they want to be able to say,
20:02
“Hey, look, we’re supporting this art.”
20:05
You know what I mean? Where 90% of what
20:08
they want to do is to pay for their
20:11
bottom line, but they want to be able to
20:13
let the community know like, “Oh, look,
20:15
you see, we support art. You know, we
20:17
support Scorsese doing his his thing.”
20:19
Now, we would disagree with a lot of the
20:20
movies he makes. Obviously they’re not
20:22
faith faith aligned but so there are
20:26
different reasons why they have to do it
20:28
you know it’s like okay sometimes they
20:30
have to let
20:31
the employee try their idea even if they
20:33
don’t it’s not great so that the other
20:34
employees feel good in the in the thing
20:37
um but you’re right it it’s a very
20:39
complicated process and you do think
20:40
like hey after 13 years how is this made
20:44
the interesting thing too about
20:45
Hollywood is that they’re basically uh
20:49
they’re basically for a long time have
20:50
been six major studios that have made
20:54
controlled about 98% of the box office.
20:56
Okay? So even though independents make
20:58
up 60% of the movies that come out a
21:00
year, they only make up about 2% of the
21:03
money that is made a year.
Independent Films and Studio Control
21:06
So a lot of times when people talk to me
21:07
about movies that they’re frustrated
21:09
about, it could actually have just been
21:11
like some independent film that was made
21:13
or whatever and didn’t actually make it.
21:16
Um, but a lot of the studio films like
21:18
they do try to put processes that it
21:20
could be what they call four quadrant
21:22
film like like the do our friend made
21:24
the Dune movies if you’ve seen any of
21:26
those which we liked them a lot. We’ve
21:29
worked some behind the scenes on those.
21:31
Um, you know, so like they will try to
21:33
make a movie that they can kind of hit
21:35
those four quadrants or whatever. But
21:37
but you’re right, like any business, you
21:38
know, a few
21:40
uh some don’t make it, you know,
21:43
um
21:44
they try to get, you know, some home
21:45
runs, some
21:47
singles, some doubles, you know, and
21:49
there. They know that a good portion of
21:51
those are going to fail, too. That’s why
21:52
they do a movie slate every year, you
21:54
know.
Success of Narnia
21:54
Yeah.
21:55
There.
21:55
So, it seems like when when Narnia came
21:58
out, like Narnia, Lion, the Witch in the
22:00
Wardrobe, that did so well. Then there
22:02
was a really big gap in
Christian Content Discussion
22:04
content. And it felt like and I know
22:05
that’s not straight Christian but then
22:07
recently you’ve had like King of Kings,
22:08
David, others do well. Um
22:11
why the gap in between? And do you think
22:13
where do you think Hollywood is moving
22:16
from what you’re seeing? Is there more
22:17
Christian content or is it more just
22:19
familyfriendly content or how do you see
22:21
this shifting?
Hollywood’s Cyclical Nature
22:22
So there is a lot of Christian content
22:24
and I will say uh
22:28
I’ll say that so Hollywood in some ways
22:31
is is cyclical, right? M and not in some
22:34
ways it really is right and I mean you
22:36
would they would call it fatal or
22:38
whatever where it follows different
22:39
fats. The thing is that uh
22:43
like take the superhero stuff right for
22:45
a while like superhero movies printed
22:49
gold money you know what I mean like you
22:51
had a superhero movie people were
22:53
watching it and I don’t know about you
22:54
but like those were a lot of those were
22:56
amazing. I loved Captain America to
22:58
all the Marvels. Yeah.
Superhero Movie Fatigue
22:59
But then it just got like I don’t want
23:01
to see another superhero movie. I don’t
23:03
know about you, but like I don’t want to
23:04
see it. Like you get bored of it, right?
23:07
The new like they said for a long time
23:09
westerns were dead. There would never be
23:11
another western again.
23:12
Look at Taylor Sheridan. Like the dude
23:14
is one of the most powerful people in
23:15
Hollywood now. Everything he’s doing
23:17
from Yellowstone to whatever has been
23:19
incredibly successful, you know, like
23:22
now westerns are like they’re making as
23:24
many westerns as they can make, right?
Audience Preferences Change
23:26
But like like anything, the audience
23:28
over time is like, you know what, maybe
23:30
we don’t want to see a western anymore.
23:33
I mean, they haven’t gotten to that
23:34
point yet, thankfully. I love western.
23:35
My grandfather was a western star. But
23:38
like, you know, these things kind of the
23:41
change. And so, I think some of those
23:43
things on on there’s always been sort of
23:46
consistent good like and we’ve worked on
23:49
the faith independent side and we’ve
23:51
worked with the big studios on a very
23:53
regular basis. And so the big studios
23:54
have always put out stuff with, you
23:56
know, faith content or elements like
23:58
that. I mean, even our friend who made
24:00
Frozen was a Christian to put faith
24:02
content in that, you know,
Faith Content in Hollywood
24:04
but the thing is that uh you know, they
24:07
they
24:08
they do eb and flow on some of those
24:10
things. I will say that
24:12
we do so like you’ll have something like
24:14
Narnia and then you have a little bit
24:16
you’ll have the Bible series you know
24:17
which hits 100 million people and then
24:19
you have a little you know now you have
24:21
the chosen which has done incredibly
24:23
well and was bought by MGM gem you know
24:26
Amazon you know
24:27
so I do think we’re in in that moment
24:30
you know
Faith Audience Preferences
24:31
I think that part of uh for the faith
24:34
audience too is just the understanding
24:37
that there’s just a broader sense of
24:39
content that that they want too. You
24:41
know, I think for a while like the faith
24:43
independent side has always focused on a
24:45
very narrow niche of like, hey,
24:48
it’s kind of the hospital movie as it
24:50
were, you know, and it’s like, okay,
24:52
this person is going through horrible
24:54
struggles. God loves them. You know, he
24:56
they either get healed or they they die,
24:59
but they’re in a better place. And
25:00
you’ve gone through like a, you know,
25:02
deep dramatic roller coaster in there.
Broader Faith Content
25:05
And I think that one thing I’m I’m kind
25:07
of excited now on the kind of fate
25:09
independent side is it feels like now
25:11
they have figured out hey you can make a
25:13
broader like Christians like to laugh
25:15
too you know like they want to see
25:18
sci-fi and they want to see animated and
25:20
they want to see this and they want to
25:21
see that and so I am a little excited
25:23
about those kind of elements with like
25:25
movies you said about like hey the
25:27
independent side has understood that
25:28
there’s like a broader sense than than
25:31
it was just of these like sort of deep
25:34
melodramas. in in [laughter] the thing.
25:36
Um, which people need that too. Do you
25:39
know what I mean?
Industry’s Interesting Time
25:40
The thing is that like
25:42
the industry is at an incredibly
25:44
interesting time. And I mean the truth
25:46
is that I love this business, so I could
25:48
talk to you forever about [laughter] it.
25:49
But like the whole industry as a whole
25:51
is in a very complicated moment, you
25:54
know,
25:55
and there’s always been different
25:56
segments, you know, there like my wife
25:58
likes romantic comedies. I don’t know
26:00
about your wife, but my wife is all
26:02
about it, you know. um you know some
26:05
people like sci-fi Star Wars my
26:06
brother-in-law loves Star Wars you know
26:08
in the mix of it there’s there’s
26:10
different sets of kind of things that
26:12
people are interested in and Hollywood
26:14
tries to hit each one of those
Hyperfocus in Entertainment
26:16
the thing that’s interesting about the
26:17
time we live in now and you live this as
26:19
a marketer is that we have the ability
26:21
to kind of hyperfocus on all these
26:23
things right so you have the Hallmark
26:24
channel which every day all day is
26:27
romantic companies you know what I mean
26:28
it makes fun of people make fun of it
26:30
because it’s like the same story but
26:32
it’s just basically they’ve hyperfocused
26:34
on hey that audience of people who like
26:36
the kind of romance movie and they’re
26:39
just doing it and selling it every
26:40
moment you know great American family
26:42
does that you know oft
Debate on Central Themes
26:45
uh you know that’s kind of an
26:47
interesting element the interesting
26:49
debate that that Hollywood is having now
26:51
is will there be kind of a central theme
26:54
right because in the old days it’s like
26:56
everybody went to the Star
26:57
[clears throat] Wars movie and you
26:58
talked about it you know with your
27:00
friends about it you know everybody went
27:02
to Captain America America or Spider-Man
27:03
and he talked about it.
27:05
Now in this world of hyperfocus, so
27:08
maybe we have to blame you marketers on
27:11
you know what I mean? Like it’s like
27:12
well yeah like now there are Tik Tok
27:14
stars that have 17 million followers
27:16
that nobody’s ever heard of or whatever,
27:18
you know? And so the question for the
27:20
industry is will it be a world of
27:23
hyperfocus where there’s all of these
27:25
kind of sub moments where you’ve got the
27:28
romcom area and you’ve got sci-fi and
27:29
you got crunchy roll that’s just anime
27:31
and you’ve got all this
Netflix’s Hyperfocusing Strategy
27:32
or if again will it will be kind of like
27:35
a a zeitgeist like everybody doing the
27:38
same thing and you know Netflix we were
27:40
just I was just a couple months back
27:42
with Ted Sandos the CEO of Netflix
27:45
they’ve done an incredible job of like
27:48
hyperfocusing, right? That’s literally
27:51
their whole platform is hyperfocusing. I
27:53
do want to give you a little secret that
27:55
actually Christian content performs some
27:56
of the best on their on their service.
27:58
But they do a lot of like hyperfocusing
28:00
of like, oh yeah, you like anime, this
28:02
is this. If you like sci-fi, this is
28:03
this. You like romcom, you like this. If
28:05
you want action, it’s this. You know,
28:07
but the question is in the past like
28:09
studios tried to kind of do those
28:11
zeitgeist the the like hopefully
28:13
everybody watched Dune and talked about
28:15
it, you know, and so we don’t know what
28:18
will happen there. [clears throat] Like
28:18
will it go back? Will people go back to
28:20
movie theaters? You know, this year has
28:22
actually been really good
Movie Theaters’ Future
28:23
from a movie theater perspective,
28:25
but like movie theaters have been
28:27
radically down since co do you know what
28:29
I mean? It’s been hard to kind of even
28:30
match those numbers of audience
28:32
attendance. And so the question is like
28:35
will that how that will change and I do
28:37
think that the major studios if you
28:39
would have talked to me like seven years
28:41
ago I would have thought okay the some
28:43
new player is going to disrupt the major
28:44
studios but actually now I feel like
28:47
even stronger in the major studios than
28:48
I felt before they’re they’re very smart
28:50
they’re very capable they have large
28:52
audiences I mean you know
28:54
Netflix has 350 million people that use
28:57
it every month like Disney Plus has 200
28:59
plus million people like they have these
29:01
these audiences So, it’ll be interesting
29:03
to see kind of like what happens in
29:05
that, you know.
Movie Guide’s Impact
29:06
Yeah.
29:07
Uh, and I don’t know. I don’t know where
29:09
it will go, but it’ll be interesting to
29:10
see on that, you know.
29:11
Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting from your
29:15
standpoint, what you’re doing at Movie
29:17
Guide. You guys have helped 80 plus
29:19
million people, you know, think through
29:21
what movies they should watch. Uh, one,
29:25
what do you want people to think about
29:27
when they think about Movie Guide? And
29:29
two, what are some leadership lessons
29:31
that you’re learning leading movie guide
29:34
in impacting what people show their kids
29:37
and and think about filling in their own
29:40
mind?
Movie Guide’s Mission
29:40
I think uh I I think that from a movie
29:44
guide perspective,
29:46
the our point is that okay, so there’s
29:49
kind of two angles that you can take on
29:51
media, right? You can kind of have the,
29:54
you know, I give up, it’s everywhere.
29:55
give your kid an iPad and just let them
29:57
sit at all times consuming content.
29:59
Okay, you got this angle. You got the
30:01
other angle of like, hey, I’m never
30:02
gonna let my child see a thing. You know
30:05
what I [laughter] mean? Like, we’re
30:06
going to churn our own butter. We’re
30:07
going to do our own thing.
30:09
We’re never seeing any content. Okay, so
30:11
you got both sides. Sometimes I feel
30:12
like I lean a little more that way, but
30:13
we you got both [laughter] sides.
30:15
For us at Movie Guide, the thought is
30:17
like, hey, media itself is not evil,
30:20
right? We want to be able to have you
30:23
learn how to be able to learn walk that
30:26
framework so that like because stories
30:28
are so powerful. You know, Barner had a
30:31
study that said 80% of kids make a
30:33
decision on what they’re going to do for
30:35
the rest of their life based on
30:37
entertainment that they’ve seen. Can you
30:38
think about that? Like the job that
30:39
you’re going to do day in and day out
30:41
from like a movie or TV show that they
30:43
have seen. I mean, think about like
30:44
lifestyle, who you marry, what faith you
30:47
hold to. Obviously, like media has such
30:49
an impact. So for us, we want to be able
30:52
to teach parents and help them
30:54
understand like, hey, it is your job.
30:56
Your job is to train your kids on how to
30:59
consume media, how to be wise in it.
31:02
Because when they leave your home, you
31:04
know, if it’s for a party or when they,
31:07
you know, graduate high school, like
31:08
they’re going to consume content and
31:10
have you given them the framework to
31:12
know how to be able to watch that movie
31:15
effectively because powerful stories can
31:18
encourage you to be a great version of
31:20
yourself. I mean, one of my favorite
31:21
movies of all time is Hackhall Ridge.
31:23
Have you seen that movie?
31:23
Yeah, that’s a good one.
31:24
It’s just like incredible to be able to
31:26
be like, “Wow, you see it and you’re
31:27
like, I want to be a better Christian.”
31:29
You see Braveheart, you want to be a
31:30
better man. You know what I mean? Like
31:32
there are movies that can inspire you to
31:33
be the best version of yourself. And so
31:35
for us, for a parent is we want one the
31:38
parent to say, “Hey, look, this is my
31:40
responsibility. It is important. I want
31:41
to walk that journey, but it’s not
31:43
something that I can either give up on
31:44
on this side or this side because both
31:46
sides are giving up on it.” You know,
31:48
it’s saying, “Hey, media is here and it
31:50
is here to stay, you know, but what can
31:53
I do to be able to guide my kids so that
31:54
they can understand the media that they
31:56
consume and that I can fill them with
31:59
the right stories?” So at Movie Guide,
32:01
we try to help them on that journey. We
32:03
help them understand how to consume the
32:05
media, how to teach their kids. I’m
32:06
actually working on finishing a book
32:08
I’ve been working on for the last couple
32:09
of months on this topic of how to train
32:12
your kids in this. And then the second
32:14
element is like, hey, what stories? Like
32:16
we have lists on if you want stories on
32:19
how to encourage your son to be
32:21
patriotic or how to make your daughter
32:24
whatever love virtue or whatever. We
32:26
have a list on on all of these kind of
32:29
different things that you care whatever
32:31
core thing that you care about
32:34
to give you stories to kind of encourage
32:36
them in that direction to inspire them
32:38
to be able to do those great things. You
32:40
know, with my kids, we just watched uh
32:42
Chariots of Fire and it was so cool and
32:44
so awesome to see how they lit up. I
32:46
didn’t My youngest is five and my oldest
32:47
is 11. So, I didn’t know where they were
32:49
going to, but it’s one of their favorite
32:51
movies, all of them, because you just
32:52
see this man who’s like, “Hey, I’m going
32:54
to stand up for God no matter what, even
32:56
at the loss of losing this biggest
32:58
sporting event in the world, you know,
33:00
and so we want parents to know how to
33:04
walk through life in this media
33:05
saturated world, but in which they can
33:07
learn how to how to walk it well, how to
33:10
how to discern the content and help
33:11
their kids so they build that framework
33:14
so that every day they want to walk with
33:16
Christ, that they want to do the right
33:18
you know, to teach them to have that
33:20
framework themselves even when you’re
33:21
not there. So, that’s really the biggest
33:23
aspect I think from a movie guide
33:26
perspective that I hope parents walk
33:28
away with. And we have a incredible app
33:30
called movie movie guide. You can
33:32
download it. Um, and we created this
33:34
little character actually I created
33:36
after my dad called Dr. Teddy Bear. And
33:38
it’s a little teddy bear because my
33:39
dad’s name is literally Dr. Teddy Bear.
33:42
And uh it like you can put in like hey
33:44
my daughter loves Sound of Music and
33:46
likes this and like that or Bluey and it
33:48
will show you other content like that to
33:50
kind of encourage you and help you on
33:52
that journey
Parental Responsibility
33:54
of of as a parent. And you know we have
33:57
such a unique responsibility because
33:58
like we are the first generation
34:01
that
34:03
has been with screens ourselves. So like
34:05
we get to teach our kids how to use
34:07
screens. You know, if you think about
34:09
it, like they are seeing us on how we
34:11
consume. And so really, we want to help
34:13
parents on that on that journey of like
34:15
how do you consume content? How how do
34:17
you do it well? How can I teach my kids
34:19
to consume it well? So that it’s not
34:21
against content. It’s not
34:23
overwhelming them with so much content,
34:25
you know what I mean? But it’s it’s that
34:27
fine line of like, oh, hey, we, you
34:29
know, try to watch it together. I mean,
34:31
there’s even a lot of research about
34:32
just sitting and watching something with
34:34
your kids
34:36
fundamentally changes the way that they
34:38
consume the content if you just watch it
34:40
with them,
34:41
you know. And so, we really uh excited
34:44
about that and hopefully
34:45
maybe when I have my book, I’ll come
34:47
back on or you can read the book,
34:48
whatever. I’ve been working on that.
34:50
But,
34:50
but yeah, we’re that’s why I’m excited
34:52
for for parents to know that they they
34:54
don’t have to give up. There’s a way to
34:55
walk through it. We’ve seen it. We’ve
34:57
seen a family after family of how you
34:58
can navigate this well, you know.
Book Inspiration
35:01
Yeah. What compelled you to want to do
35:02
the book?
35:04
You know, I just travel so much and I
35:06
meet so many families and I do feel like
35:09
people are kind of pulling their hair
35:10
out in a way about the fact that it’s
35:13
just a different world. Like even like
35:15
when we grew up, it’s like, okay, you’d
35:17
have to go rent the movie from
35:19
Blockbuster or whatever. Like you’d have
35:20
to put the DVD in. Like there was this
35:23
even even in the midst of all the
35:24
content there was a scarcity of content.
35:26
You know what I mean? Where it’s like oh
35:27
yeah maybe I’ll watch it one. But now
35:30
we have access to everything. Do you
35:32
know what I mean? Like all things are
35:33
are possible almost. You know you can
35:35
get your Netflix subscription and have
35:37
50,000 plus. I think they produce a
35:39
thousand pieces of content alone
35:40
themselves every year. You know
Overwhelmed by Content
35:42
and so really just seeing that people
35:44
were overwhelmed and felt oversaturated
35:46
and didn’t know what to do or how to
35:48
walk it. And it’s like, hey, we’ve built
35:50
our lives. This organization has been
35:52
around for uh a long time since 1978,
35:55
you know, so we’ve built our our whole
35:57
mission on it. We’ve have all this
35:59
research on it. And so how we can kind
36:00
of help people, we’ve seen families
36:02
succeed in it time and time again. And
36:04
so kind of just giving that story so
36:06
that people can know, hey, I can I can
36:08
make it in this. I can succeed in this,
36:10
you know, I don’t have to I don’t have
36:12
to give up. I don’t have to pull my hair
36:13
out on it. So that’s kind of the
36:15
thought. So, you’re a parent and you’re
36:18
dealing with technology and messaging
36:21
all day long, every day.
Technology and Kids
36:22
How do you think about tech and kids and
36:25
what that looks like? You talk about the
36:27
one extreme of kids are just put on
36:29
iPads and basically raised on iPads and
36:31
the other extreme of they don’t even
36:32
know what a screen is and they might not
36:34
have friends and so like where is that
36:37
like how do you think about technology
36:39
and kids and leading your kids? Well,
36:41
you know, I feel like that’s a great
36:42
question. I almost feel in a way that’s
36:44
kind of the question of our age. Do you
36:46
know what I mean? Because we just live
36:47
in an age where it’s like, man,
36:50
like we are really the first generation
36:51
where it’s like, hey, are you getting
36:53
home, dad, and sitting on your couch and
36:56
just looking at your phone? You know
36:57
what I mean? Your kids see that. Like I
36:59
actually get a physical Wall Street
37:01
Journal now that I read [laughter] so
37:02
that if they see me reading the news,
37:04
they see me reading the news. You know
37:06
what I mean? In the mix of it. But I do
37:08
think that um it’s really important how
37:11
you model it. I think that is an
37:13
important thing like are you like um
37:18
so I think that there’s different things
37:20
that are kind of compelling about the
37:21
screen. Okay. So for me it’s always like
37:23
I feel like I’m learning something.
37:24
Okay. For a little while I think co kind
37:27
of sucked people into different things.
37:28
I got I got sucked into the YouTube
37:29
world
37:30
and it’s like I feel like you can get
37:33
pulled in for the for the right reasons
37:35
but it’s the wrong time consumption. So
37:37
it’s like oh I’m learning how to garden.
37:39
I don’t garden. I’ve never garden. I’m
37:42
learning how to fix a 1957 pickup. Well,
37:44
I don’t own a 1957 pickup, but I feel
37:47
like I’m learning something by watching
37:49
it. And I just feel like the other day,
37:51
you know, I I just got a ping like,
37:53
“Hey,
37:54
like, what are you doing?” Like,
37:56
do I really need to learn about this new
37:59
Nvidia whatever thing that it can do on
38:01
AI? I don’t. I really don’t. Do you know
38:04
what I mean? I can always tell myself
38:05
it’s helpful from a business
38:06
perspective, but like why don’t I just
38:08
go play catch with my son, you know? And
38:10
so I think that it’s really important on
38:12
how you model it,
38:14
you know, like where are you spending
38:15
your time? You know, Francis Schaefer,
38:17
who’s a famous uh Christian like thought
38:20
leader, used to have a phrase where it’s
38:22
like, hey, they invented the dishwasher,
38:24
so what are you doing with your time?
38:26
You know, are you using it well? Like
38:28
you don’t have to spend hours washing
38:29
the dishes anymore. What are you doing
38:30
with that time? They invented the the
38:32
washing machine. What are you doing now?
38:34
You know, and I think sometimes it’s
38:35
it’s helpful to think about that. Like,
38:37
hey, your kids are only young for such a
38:39
short period of time. Like, put the
38:41
phone away. Like, for us, like, we just
38:43
put it in a little box. Like,
38:45
my brother got angry at my oldest
38:46
brother got angry at me the other day
38:47
because I’m not accessible over the
38:49
weekend with my phone. I was like, good.
38:51
I’m so glad I’m not accessible, you
38:54
know? And it’s just like, hey, spend
38:55
time with them. Be be with them. And I
38:57
think that’s a really really important
38:59
thing to let them know and show them and
39:01
model it that people matter more,
39:04
you know, that it’s more important than
39:06
technology. And then I think that it’s
39:08
okay to like,
39:09
yeah, technology is fun. Like there’s
39:11
good things to it. There’s amazing
39:13
things to it. We’re not anti-technology.
39:15
I mean, we have access to all human
39:17
information. Like
39:18
I can talk to
39:20
friends all over the world. I I got to
39:22
work all in all over the world and I get
39:25
to talk to friends, you know, or in Hong
39:27
Kong or Japan or wherever.
39:29
It’s incredible. Like we live in an
39:31
incredible age. That is good. That’s not
39:32
a negative thing, you know, like
39:34
technology allows us to do incredible
39:36
things. So, I think it’s important to
39:37
let your kids understand that, but it’s
39:39
like you can’t have unlimited candy. And
39:41
I think it’s important
39:43
for you to model that you can’t have
39:44
unlimited candy first. Do you know what
39:46
I mean?
Do Hard Things
39:47
Yeah. And I think that also like us as
39:49
humans like we we live in the most
39:51
incredible age of all time. Like we’re
39:53
literally live as what kings lived in
39:56
previous times, you know, queens.
39:58
And it’s like
40:00
do hard things.
40:01
Do you know what I mean? I think it’s
40:03
really important to like choose to do
40:04
hard things. You know, two years ago
40:07
against my better judgment, I started
40:08
doing CrossFit and I really have loved
40:10
it a lot. But it was like one of those
40:12
things where my wife was like, “You got
40:12
to do this and you gota” and it’s like
40:14
you got to do hard things. I just think
40:16
that part of those things and like
40:18
it is a lot harder to not give your kid
40:20
the iPad,
40:21
right? Because you know in that moment
40:24
it’ll be way easier for your kid to just
40:26
watch something on the iPad.
40:27
Do hard things. It’s worth it. Every
40:29
time it’s worth it,
40:30
you know, in uh in Christianity, you
40:33
know, we often talk about the upside
40:35
down economy.
40:36
You know, like if I sacrifice for my
40:38
life, my life for my wife,
40:41
I love her more doing that and she loves
40:43
me more. It seems like it makes no
40:45
sense. It seems like you should choose
40:47
the selfish thing every time. You know,
40:50
you should give the zinger to your wife
40:51
in that in that argument. You don’t do
40:53
that. You’re gonna sleep on the couch.
40:55
You’re not. But like when I sacrifice,
40:57
when I say, “Hey, I’m sorry.” When I
40:58
walk,
40:59
I love her more
41:00
and she loves me more. Do you know what
41:02
I mean? It’s like it’s always worth it.
41:04
But like think about every good thing
41:06
that’s happened to you.
41:07
It’s always worth it to do the hard
41:08
thing, [clears throat] you know? And I
41:10
just think that that’s really important
41:11
in the technology side. Do the hard
41:13
thing. It’s okay. Instagram will be
41:15
there forever. [laughter]
41:17
You know what I mean? Like LinkedIn will
41:19
be there. Like the news app will be
41:21
there, you know, YouTube will be there.
41:24
Yeah.
41:24
Your kids are growing up. Like focus on
41:26
them. Do the hard thing.
41:28
Walk with them, you know?
Movie Guide’s Future
41:29
Yeah.
41:30
That’s what I’d say.
41:31
So with Movie Guide, you guys have been
41:34
doing this for decades now.
41:36
And often with organizations, you can
41:38
get caught in we’ve done this forever,
41:40
so we’re going to just keep doing it
41:41
like it is forever.
41:44
I would imagine you guys have some
41:46
pretty big plans for Movie Guide in the
41:48
next decade.
41:50
How do you think of Movie Guide and
41:51
growth and what’s your hope for it?
Leadership and Growth
41:54
You know, I I think that on the
41:56
leadership side, because you’re right, I
41:57
got to talk about the leadership too. I
41:59
love the film. Um I just think it’s a
42:01
really interesting. So, I joined this
42:05
nonprofit that was started by my
42:06
parents. Okay. My parents, my dad was
42:09
just a passionate man who just wanted to
42:11
make a difference for for the gospel.
42:13
And I’m the same. They just worked
42:15
really hard. They did incredible things.
42:16
They met people. But when I started, you
42:20
know, they would cry over a budget, you
42:24
know what I mean? Like they were afraid
42:25
about those kind of elements. You work
42:27
with a lot of nonprofits.
42:29
I came in in in 2008, which was a very
42:32
hard time to join anything. you know,
42:35
most nonprofits went down, I think, like
42:36
60% that year. Wow. You know,
42:39
and so it was really like stepping into
42:42
an organization that had a great legacy
42:44
and power, but really it was just kind
42:49
of making it, barely making it by, you
42:51
know, and I remember even that year when
42:53
I started doing it,
42:55
you know, like we had to it was a really
42:58
hard time like I had to let go a third
43:01
of the thing. I had to work for free.
43:04
Luckily, I had done
43:05
pretty well before.
43:07
I had to um
43:08
you know call up the creditors and just
43:10
be like, “Hey, can you extend are you
43:12
willing to work with me? Are you willing
43:14
to wait with me?” You know, it was
43:15
incredible to see people. I mean, a lot
43:17
of people were doing the same thing
43:18
because it was 2008.
43:20
And it’s just it I think that uh
43:24
that was a really cool kind of baptism
43:26
by fire learning experience. It wasn’t
43:28
so cool in the middle of it. Obviously,
43:30
it kind of sucked
Leadership in Family Business
43:33
then, but but I just
43:35
think that uh one of the things I think
43:36
that’s really interesting from a
43:38
leadership perspective, and I
43:39
experienced this a lot as I travel the
43:41
country, is how many people step into
43:45
family family things, you know, and so
43:48
it was just a very unique
43:49
organizational thing where I stepped
43:51
into something that had a deep legacy
43:52
because it was my parents,
43:54
you know what I mean? They didn’t know
43:55
how to do the business side of things,
43:57
but they knew how to do the mission side
Navigating Family Dynamics
44:00
of things. And it was just like trying
44:02
to walk those landmines well, how to
44:04
walk that that well and how to lead that
44:06
well in the mix of it. And it was it was
44:08
a really really interesting time. And I
44:10
will say it took a long time to work
44:13
through that. And I think that uh the
44:15
thing that about family business which
44:18
is so interesting is that you get to
44:19
have the secret language because you’ve
44:21
known those people for so long, right?
44:23
You can say like three words and they
44:24
know what you’re talking about. They get
44:27
it get it done. But on the flip side,
44:30
everything you say has a depth of
44:32
feeling guided. It’s like going to the
44:35
Thanksgiving meal with your family, you
44:37
know, or anything like that. Like three
44:38
words might bring up something about
44:40
when you left the bike on the lawn when
44:42
you were 14 years old or something. Do
44:44
you know what I mean? And so I think
44:46
that that is like a very interesting
44:47
thing too from like a navigating
44:49
leadership is just I think family
44:52
dynamic adds another level that I don’t
44:55
think I understood too. And I think it
44:57
really requires a very certain person
44:59
who’s willing to do it because it’s
45:01
really really hard. I think it is a very
45:03
very hard thing. And if you don’t feel
45:04
called by God, I don’t necessarily
45:06
recommend it in the mix of it. Yeah.
Balancing Business and Family
45:09
Because you have to learn to add that
45:11
layer. So it’s not only the complication
45:12
of business, but it’s also the
45:13
complication of
45:15
how can I walk with and work with
45:18
family? How can I honor them and love
45:19
them as family,
45:21
which is a very different role than how
45:24
you walk and run an organization. And
45:27
so, uh, I feel like that has been a big
45:30
kind of learning experience and kind of
45:32
transformational experience. And so, I
45:33
think a big thing for us as a ministry
45:37
is we
45:39
really run it a very lean mean shop on
45:40
like, hey, we stretch every dollar as
45:42
much as we can. We
45:45
lean into technology a lot obviously to
45:49
be able to do the best we can. And then
45:51
um, we really push goals and things. But
45:53
I think because of that, it’s let us
45:57
have this tremendous impact of, oh yeah,
46:00
we hit 82 million families or we had 1.6
46:01
million subscribers on YouTube. We beat,
46:04
you know, Hollywood Reporter and Force
46:06
magazine and stuff like that on that or
46:09
uh that we get to work pretty
46:12
systematically and regularly with the
46:14
major studios of
46:16
all of these guys on a regular basis.
46:19
And I think that a good portion of that
46:22
is because we’ve kind of instituted a
46:25
lot of these kind of business principles
46:27
in there. you know, the good to great
46:29
and the no rules rules and the lean
46:32
startup and um and kind of applying that
46:35
to to what we do.
Complexity of Family Business
46:37
But I would say from a leadership
46:39
perspective and if any of the people
46:41
listening, you know, are part of family
46:44
business, I do think that it’s like a
46:46
whole another layer of complexity on
46:48
that because making a change in an
46:50
organization is always hard.
46:53
So making a change that has like deep
46:55
family significance
46:58
is really hard. [laughter]
47:00
you know, and for anyone going through
47:03
that, I would just say like patience,
47:05
you know, like part of it is just
47:08
patience. Like just be willing to to
47:10
walk through it. Like just remember that
47:12
your if it was your father, your your
47:14
mother, your uncle, your your older
47:17
brother or whatever,
47:19
like they had to be willing to do
47:21
something that nobody believed in in the
47:24
first place. Kind of like you starting
47:27
this thing against all odds that nobody
47:29
believed,
47:30
right? So they had to have that kind of
47:32
personality. So, so take that,
47:35
understand that, you know, and that you
47:37
bring a different thing. You’re not
47:39
them. You’re you’re different and you’ll
47:41
have different giftings and you’ll have
47:43
different failings. But be patient and
47:46
and be diligent. Like if you feel like
47:48
it’s the right thing to do, do do it.
47:51
But understand that you the way you
47:53
present that like try to think through
47:55
how you can present it in their their
47:57
language in a patient way of saying,
47:59
“Hey, we need to change this. We know
48:02
we’ve always done it this way, but it
48:04
doesn’t work in 2020. It doesn’t work in
48:06
2026. It doesn’t it’s a different
48:09
market, a different time,
48:11
you know. And I think that uh it’s
48:14
definitely a different kind of language
48:16
you have to learn. I think you do have
48:18
to be disciplined to kind of learn how
48:20
to speak the language of the
48:22
stakeholders
48:24
really really well. And if those
48:26
stakeholders are family,
48:28
you gota you got to add in that, you
48:30
know, complexity in there, you know,
48:32
which I think is really hard from a
48:34
leadership perspective. But you know by
48:37
God’s grace you know it’s worked out for
48:40
us on that. And so I think for us like
48:43
we are really excited about about the
48:45
future. I think that media consumption
48:47
is only becoming a bigger thing. They
48:50
said the average um genzer I think
48:53
almost watches more content than they do
48:55
going to work. So
48:58
the amount of content that people
49:00
consume and watch is pretty high. So I
49:03
think that you know for us like
49:05
we just want to be a way to be able to
49:07
help families you know protect them to
49:10
walk walk them on this journey of faith
49:12
to help them uh in this discernment on
49:14
the media that they consume. So we we’re
49:16
doing that in a lot of different ways
49:18
you know through our new app through
49:20
doing content and all that. And I think
49:22
another thing too is for us is that uh
Reaching Hollywood with Faith
49:27
you know we want to reach these people
49:29
in Hollywood and help them know about
49:31
the gospel and the beauty and the
49:33
encouragement of it and how joyous it
49:36
is. You know how and I can tell you
49:38
story after story of people coming to
49:41
faith and just how fun and cool it is.
49:43
And then another thing that we found
49:45
recently which we kind of want to lean
49:47
more into is just a lot of people even
49:49
coming to Christ through some of our
49:51
digital stuff. So we do almost 300
49:53
interviews a year. We just did Ryan
49:55
Gosling and we did Alpuccino and we do
49:58
you know every everyone on the list of
50:01
you know Emma Watson to whatever. Um,
50:04
and just uh, you know, we saw almost
50:07
10,000 young men 18 to 34 came to Christ
50:09
uh, through our YouTube and click
50:11
through to find a church and connect
50:14
with the Bible and um, and so, you know,
50:16
we want to kind of figure out how we can
50:18
click more into that, you know, do do
50:20
more on that. So, we’ve kind of started
50:22
a series that we’re trying to work on of
50:24
just like these celebrities behind the
50:26
scenes that maybe you don’t know that
50:28
they’re Christian to kind of tell their
50:30
testimony, you know, to get people in
50:32
those algorithmic loop of seeing
50:34
testimonies, you know, and uh and so I
50:36
think there’s a lot of excitement on
50:39
ways to be able to kind of help families
50:41
on this journey, you know, as we go
50:43
forward.
Exciting New Projects
50:44
I love that. That sounds like a fun
50:46
series. Yeah.
50:47
And we’ll have to put the in our show
50:49
notes for people listening, we’ll put
50:51
the app where people can check it out.
50:53
Um because it’d be cool to see more
50:55
people using that.
50:56
Yeah, I think so.
50:57
All right, I want to finish with 10
50:59
rapidfire questions.
51:00
Okay, let’s do it. [laughter] Sorry, I
51:01
talked too long.
51:03
No. And say the first thing that comes
51:05
to mind, no wrong answer.
51:07
Who’s the first person you think of when
51:09
I say servant leadership?
51:11
Oh my gosh.
51:13
I mean, Jesus.
51:14
All right. Yeah.
51:15
Five words the most describe you. Uh
51:18
loyal,
51:21
hardworking,
51:23
family [snorts] loving. I don’t know. Uh
51:26
Christ follower.
51:27
All right, those are good. Favorite
51:28
food.
51:30
Oo. Uh I like Bolognese. Let’s say
51:35
Bolognese.
51:36
All right. Favorite book
51:38
or author?
51:39
Favorite book. Either one. Okay. Outside
51:41
obviously the Bible. Let’s see. Um
51:45
favorite book. Parallel series.
51:47
Okay. Cool.
51:47
Yeah. CS Lewis.
51:49
Favorite movie, which is tough for you.
51:51
Movie. Oh my [laughter] gosh. I don’t
51:52
know if I can say that. I’ll be kicked
51:54
out of the I have a lot of favorites.
51:56
One of a great movie. One of your
51:58
favorites.
52:00
I I mean, I love I mean, Hackel Ridge is
52:02
one of my favorites. It’s a Wonderful
52:03
Life is one of my favorites.
52:06
[snorts]
52:06
All right. What about TV shows?
52:08
Oh my goodness. Uh I’m going to
52:11
[laughter]
52:12
I can’t say pass on that.
52:14
All right. Uh, what do you do for fun or
52:17
in your free time?
52:19
Read.
52:20
Okay. Um, what’s the best advice you’ve
52:23
ever received?
52:25
Um, take advice from someone who is
52:28
where you want to be.
52:29
All right. A surprising fact about you.
52:32
Oh my gosh. Um, I’ve got a lot of random
52:37
[laughter]
52:37
facts on there, but I don’t know how
52:39
many are important in there. Uh, pass.
52:43
I’ll pass on that one. Right. And
52:45
finally, this is a podcast on servant
52:47
leadership. Why do you think people
52:49
should care about being better servant
52:51
leaders?
Importance of Servant Leadership
52:53
I think that
52:55
it’s like we came back to from the very
52:57
beginning of doing good does good.
52:59
And I think that that is true in
53:01
leadership that it’s the upside down
53:03
economy. It’s when I sacrifice for my
53:05
wife, she loves me more. I love her
53:07
more. You know, I think it’s the same
53:09
thing when you work in your business.
53:11
It’s like when your employees know that
53:13
you love them, that you’ll go the extra
53:15
mile for them. It doesn’t mean that you
53:17
are, you know, uh, not a person who has
53:21
deep views or vision or anything like
53:24
that, but just knowing that you care, I
53:26
think fundamentally allows you to be
53:28
able to get more
53:30
passion out of your employees, that
53:32
they’re willing to work further and work
53:34
farther. Um, that knowing that, hey, if
53:37
you’re going to ask them to run eight
53:39
miles, you’ll run eight miles with them.
53:41
You know what I mean? You’ll you’ll pick
53:42
them up when they fall. And I think that
53:44
that is is fundamentally important to
53:46
being uh more effective as a leader.
Closing Remarks
53:50
That’s good.
53:51
Yeah.
53:51
Well, Robbie, thank you for sharing your
53:53
journey with us. Thanks for sharing some
53:55
wisdom and insights on Hollywood. I feel
53:57
like I learned a lot about Hollywood,
53:59
too.
54:00
Yeah. Thank you so much. And I loved
54:01
getting to talk to you and anytime. Call
54:03
me back anytime.
54:04
We’ll do.
54:05
Thanks.
54:06
Thank you for listening to this episode
54:08
of the Servant Leadership Podcast. If
54:11
you enjoyed what you heard, please give
54:13
it a thumbs up and leave a comment
54:15
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54:25
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